When someone calls something an exploit and says it should be fixed and then turns around and lets another exploit slide I'd say it's justifiable to say that's hypocrisy and the person is being a hypocrite.
things that you mention are not exploits because they're old features, emblematic of the game or simply basic controls, such as pause.
but instant looting as presented in IWD:EE is not widely accepted, not fully understood yet, i've demonstrated that it has gameplay implications outside of convenience and i have every right in the world to express criticism.
don't speak of my character any more. you don't even know what hypocritical means apparently.
Saying that there's a new mechanic to exploit in a game full of old mechanics to exploit doesn't give a free pass to old exploits.
Your standards of immersion (when the original game already wrecks immersion a lot) and trying to get rid of exploits (when the original game fails at doing that) and disregard for don't like it, don't use it (when this is how players treated the original exploits) are hypocritical.
Because players in the past all had to deal with these exploits and just really didn't care and passed it off as the IE engine being exploitable but not to the point that the exploits couldn't be ignored.
So if we're going to go with the spirit of the original games: Don't like it? Don't use it. Because that's how players back then dealt with the cheese and exploits in the IE games.
Unless you can somehow show how Quick Loot exploits is somehow significantly worse compared to exploits players could perform back then, then it's no different from having to deal with the exploits that come from the Pause system in exchange for the convenience it provides.
so basically according to you, the devs can introduce virtually any change and we have to accept and can't even criticize it as long as it can be safely ignored in accordance to *your* standards of what immersion is like.
i can't go along with that, feels absurd to me. your complaining about me complaining actually isn't even on-topic, its on-me.
There used to be a time when you didn't have the loot bar. And before that, you had to manually add up your stat rolls. And before that, you couldn't press a key to highlight items on the ground or doors/chests/hidden stashes. And before that, there were no inventory management containers like gem bags and ammo belts. And before that you had to play BG with 6 CDs and swap them constantly unless you had the disk space to do a full install.
There's been a lot of b!tching and moaning lately about various enhancements made to the games. I for one am extremely grateful for all of these improvements that has allowed me to not waste my time with CD swapping and inventory management and instead become fully emmersed in this beautiful world and amazing story of these wonderful games that are 10+ years old and still worth playing.
Use the features or don't use the features. If you'd like to help improve it, there's a forum for enhancement requests and another for modding. Me, I'm going to go fire up IWD:EE and get back to rediscovering mysteries of the Spine of the World.
I'm not even talking about my standard of immersion.
I'm talking about the game's standard for immersion. A person being able to carry a thousand sticks and instantly give hundreds of those to someone else a dozen or two dozen feet away in an instant while casting a magic spell in the middle of a battle. Game says that's totally possible.
This nonsense is what the game forces players to accept. And somehow being able to teleport items on the ground into their backpack in battle breaks immersion? When those items will just end up there anyway, Quick Loot doesn't even come close to the ridiculousness of the inventory system.
Also yes I am talking about your standard of immersion, because it's high enough to complain about quick loot during battle but low enough to give the game's ridiculous inventory system a pass.
There used to be a time when you didn't have the loot bar. And before that, you had to manually add up your stat rolls. And before that, you couldn't press a key to highlight items on the ground or doors/chests/hidden stashes. And before that, there were no inventory management containers like gem bags and ammo belts. And before that you had to play BG with 6 CDs and swap them constantly unless you had the disk space to do a full install.
you're not following - i'm pro loot bar
i love the loot bar, it's amazing
the only point of concern for me is what will the version of the loot bar from IWD (i realize now that i's the "proper" version as older ones were actual not fully functional) being implemented in BG and BG2 do to those games.
i've humbly offered an idea for how to in-my-view quite elegantly dispel those concerns for me or other people who might have them. the devs don't seem to be showing interest and i'm quite alright with that.
it's a minor point, not that important for me or probably anyone else and this eccentric protracted discussion has run it's course.
The loot bar is awesome, and is even more awesome in Icewind Dale. But I also LOVE the other time-saving convenience feature that they just implemented:
When you change characters while choosing spells for the day, they will switch books for you when you go from an arcane caster-->divine caster or vice versa. Awesome.
All we need now is a quick way to change weapon combos, like they had in Icewind Dale 2 (one of its best features)
Hmm, so quick loot works differently in BG than in IWD then? I've been playing BG (on Android) and when you quick loot you can pick up coins without moving but anything else my char will move to the appropriate loot pile.
The quick loot is a great feature which makes it so much easier to play the game on a large screen resolution, which everyone have today compared to then or on a tablet. I am playing through Icewind dale 2 and would really love having quick loot in the game. Thanks for this contribution beamdog.
The quick loot is a great feature which makes it so much easier to play the game on a large screen resolution, which everyone have today compared to then or on a tablet. I am playing through Icewind dale 2 and would really love having quick loot in the game. Thanks for this contribution beamdog.
Thread necro winner for the day! It was quite interesting to scroll through those heated arguments from five years ago....
Personally i dont view it as a cheat because my party is careful about scouting... if someone runs off alone to go loot a body 200 yards away i would expect them to get ambushed by monsters. Role playing wise the smart or wise guy would speak up - in game i just dont run a char near unexplored areas to loot - i use a stealthed rogue or invised party member to scout
playing iwd 2 atm. i miss the dang loot bar i hate having to pick up every single pile just to find the key item i need to progress.. the ee are just so much better when you go back to a game using the original ie.
Thinking about the ability to transfer hundreds of arrows from on character to another mid-combat. I'm fairly certain that in the original (6CD) version of BG, you couldn't use the inventory screen whilst paused, if you opened the inventory, pause got turned off. I think you also had much smaller ammo stacks (20 IIRC).
Does that sound familiar to anyone else?
Thinking about the ability to transfer hundreds of arrows from on character to another mid-combat. I'm fairly certain that in the original (6CD) version of BG, you couldn't use the inventory screen whilst paused, if you opened the inventory, pause got turned off. I think you also had much smaller ammo stacks (20 IIRC).
Does that sound familiar to anyone else?
Yep, Julius is correct. I was watching a Let's Play of classic BG1 a couple months back and the behaviour of inventory and ammo stacks is exactly as you remember. It may be a change that made the game "easier", but I think the improvement in quality of life for the player is worth it.
The feature is essential when playing the game on 2 by 4 inch touch pad screen (iOS).
The feature is by no mean a waste of time and effort, but a must have for tablets
(and consoles I’d reckon).
Beamdig has planned carefully for the cross platform performance - and rightfully so. The game is great on both console and tablet.
Thank you for that Beamdog.
I still have the original cd’s (and I bought a new used set when the first set where worn down). If I want 100% nostalgia I can play the old ones, if a want a new enhanced edition I play the new game - it truly is enhanced and still paying 100 % homage to the old game imho.
Ps. The old games are shelved in the attic if you must know.
Yep, Julius is correct. I was watching a Let's Play of classic BG1 a couple months back and the behaviour of inventory and ammo stacks is exactly as you remember. It may be a change that made the game "easier", but I think the improvement in quality of life for the player is worth it.
I disagree... in an RPG any QoL change that takes away from realism is a BAD thing.
The feature is essential when playing the game on 2 by 4 inch touch pad screen (iOS).
The feature is by no mean a waste of time and effort, but a must have for tablets
(and consoles I’d reckon).
Beamdig has planned carefully for the cross platform performance - and rightfully so. The game is great on both console and tablet.
Thank you for that Beamdog.
Is still have the original cd’s (and I bought a new used set when the first set where worn down). If I want 100% nostalgia I can play the old ones, if a want a new enhanced edition I play the new game - it truly is enhanced and still paying 100 % homage to the old game imho.
Ps. The old games are shelved in the attic if you must know.
I disagree... I play on iOS and absolutely NEVER use the loot bar. I'm just glad that it's optional, if it was always on I doubt I would have continued to play these games.
In an RPG, especially one based on DnD, the PC should ABSOLUTELY have to search every body in the area to find that one specific item they are looking for. I play these games to get as close to a tabletop RPG experience as possible, and things like the loot bar and larger stacks and passing inventory around during battle all take away from this feel.
Yep, Julius is correct. I was watching a Let's Play of classic BG1 a couple months back and the behaviour of inventory and ammo stacks is exactly as you remember. It may be a change that made the game "easier", but I think the improvement in quality of life for the player is worth it.
I disagree... in an RPG any QoL change that takes away from realism is a BAD thing.
Yeah dude, casting a fireball against a troll is realistic as hell. That's exactly what D&D games are, realistic.
lol
Comments
but instant looting as presented in IWD:EE is not widely accepted, not fully understood yet, i've demonstrated that it has gameplay implications outside of convenience and i have every right in the world to express criticism.
don't speak of my character any more. you don't even know what hypocritical means apparently.
Your standards of immersion (when the original game already wrecks immersion a lot) and trying to get rid of exploits (when the original game fails at doing that) and disregard for don't like it, don't use it (when this is how players treated the original exploits) are hypocritical.
Because players in the past all had to deal with these exploits and just really didn't care and passed it off as the IE engine being exploitable but not to the point that the exploits couldn't be ignored.
So if we're going to go with the spirit of the original games: Don't like it? Don't use it. Because that's how players back then dealt with the cheese and exploits in the IE games.
Unless you can somehow show how Quick Loot exploits is somehow significantly worse compared to exploits players could perform back then, then it's no different from having to deal with the exploits that come from the Pause system in exchange for the convenience it provides.
i can't go along with that, feels absurd to me. your complaining about me complaining actually isn't even on-topic, its on-me.
There's been a lot of b!tching and moaning lately about various enhancements made to the games. I for one am extremely grateful for all of these improvements that has allowed me to not waste my time with CD swapping and inventory management and instead become fully emmersed in this beautiful world and amazing story of these wonderful games that are 10+ years old and still worth playing.
Use the features or don't use the features. If you'd like to help improve it, there's a forum for enhancement requests and another for modding. Me, I'm going to go fire up IWD:EE and get back to rediscovering mysteries of the Spine of the World.
/end rant.
I'm not even talking about my standard of immersion.
I'm talking about the game's standard for immersion. A person being able to carry a thousand sticks and instantly give hundreds of those to someone else a dozen or two dozen feet away in an instant while casting a magic spell in the middle of a battle. Game says that's totally possible.
This nonsense is what the game forces players to accept. And somehow being able to teleport items on the ground into their backpack in battle breaks immersion? When those items will just end up there anyway, Quick Loot doesn't even come close to the ridiculousness of the inventory system.
Also yes I am talking about your standard of immersion, because it's high enough to complain about quick loot during battle but low enough to give the game's ridiculous inventory system a pass.
i love the loot bar, it's amazing
the only point of concern for me is what will the version of the loot bar from IWD (i realize now that i's the "proper" version as older ones were actual not fully functional) being implemented in BG and BG2 do to those games.
i've humbly offered an idea for how to in-my-view quite elegantly dispel those concerns for me or other people who might have them. the devs don't seem to be showing interest and i'm quite alright with that.
it's a minor point, not that important for me or probably anyone else and this eccentric protracted discussion has run it's course.
When you change characters while choosing spells for the day, they will switch books for you when you go from an arcane caster-->divine caster or vice versa. Awesome.
All we need now is a quick way to change weapon combos, like they had in Icewind Dale 2 (one of its best features)
"Ouch. That was a low bar."
A bard walks into a bar.
"One lute please barman."
Thread necro winner for the day! It was quite interesting to scroll through those heated arguments from five years ago....
i declare that beamdog add the loot bar to NWN EE, and if people dont like it, as it's been said, you aren't forced to use it
i'm surprised alot of ee features arnt in nwn ee. the game still has load screens, no loot bar. must be due to it being 3d.
The Ten Towns are now the Eleven Towns! We welcome the brave new village Loot Bar Controversy.
Does that sound familiar to anyone else?
Sounds about right.
The feature is essential when playing the game on 2 by 4 inch touch pad screen (iOS).
The feature is by no mean a waste of time and effort, but a must have for tablets
(and consoles I’d reckon).
Beamdig has planned carefully for the cross platform performance - and rightfully so. The game is great on both console and tablet.
Thank you for that Beamdog.
I still have the original cd’s (and I bought a new used set when the first set where worn down). If I want 100% nostalgia I can play the old ones, if a want a new enhanced edition I play the new game - it truly is enhanced and still paying 100 % homage to the old game imho.
Ps. The old games are shelved in the attic if you must know.
I disagree... in an RPG any QoL change that takes away from realism is a BAD thing.
I disagree... I play on iOS and absolutely NEVER use the loot bar. I'm just glad that it's optional, if it was always on I doubt I would have continued to play these games.
In an RPG, especially one based on DnD, the PC should ABSOLUTELY have to search every body in the area to find that one specific item they are looking for. I play these games to get as close to a tabletop RPG experience as possible, and things like the loot bar and larger stacks and passing inventory around during battle all take away from this feel.
Yeah dude, casting a fireball against a troll is realistic as hell. That's exactly what D&D games are, realistic.
lol