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What is your favourite alignment group to play in Baldur's Gate?

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  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Chaotic as an alignment merely refers to living in spite of or a general disregard to structure, not necessarily public defiance thereof. Chaotic Neutral characters can live and work in a society with laws without being arrested every single day. They're just eccentric and "weird," and don't just start stepping in grass simply because a sign says not to. Likewise, Chaotic Evil characters can get by just fine without going on any murderous rampages, and many have no problem working in groups as long as they are recognized as being in charge, are otherwise in control of others, or are shown that they aren't powerful enough to do either by those in charge.

    Chaotic in no way means a character is incapable of consistently acting in a manner conducive to their goals. It simply means that they don't care if they have to break rules or personal codes to accomplish things.
  • LugeLuge Member Posts: 90
    edited August 2012

    @Luge
    @Miloch
    Your character isn't Good if you do those things. -_-

    My reputation score says I am. No one's caught me yet, so you can't prove anything.

    Maybe I'm unlawful good?

    L.

  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664

    Chaotic as an alignment merely refers to living in spite of or a general disregard to structure, not necessarily public defiance thereof. Chaotic Neutral characters can live and work in a society with laws without being arrested every single day. They're just eccentric and "weird," and don't just start stepping in grass simply because a sign says not to. Likewise, Chaotic Evil characters can get by just fine without going on any murderous rampages, and many have no problem working in groups as long as they are recognized as being in charge, are otherwise in control of others, or are shown that they aren't powerful enough to do either by those in charge.

    Chaotic in no way means a character is incapable of consistently acting in a manner conducive to their goals. It simply means that they don't care if they have to break rules or personal codes to accomplish things.

    You must be referencing source materials I have not used. Chaotic by the very definition of the word means there will be no structured ordered process to a goal... It APPEARS to me like you are trying to define Chaotic Evil by blurring the meaning and pulling in the essence of lawful evil...in any case. In CRPG's you can pick Chaotic Evil and play the game as if you were Lawful good and there is no consequence, there really is no DM adjudicating the matter.
  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664
    @luge
    Lol Chaotic good is a whole different kettle of worms, Lawful Good is the Opposite of Chaotic Evil, and Lawful Evil is the opposite of Chaotic Good..... Alignments in AD&D are fun to bicker over but its hard to find real life examples as people are just shades of many colors.
  • Son_of_ImoenSon_of_Imoen Member Posts: 1,806
    Quartz said:

    Miloch said:

    Can't believe no-one's mentioned the cheesiest reason for being good yet. It allows you to use super-munchkin Drizzt's super-scimitar +5 when you use super-cheesy tactics to waste him :).

    ?? what's Good about killing Drizzt?

    He has the "Scimitar +5, Defender" sword which is actually lying. It's +3. But anyway, +3 Scimitar that gives you a -2 to your AC. You can only use it if you are of good alignment, that's what Miloch meant. Anyway it's pretty much the most beast weapon in the game.
    That's a different meaning of the word 'good'. Killing someone because he has a 'good' sword in the sense of a sword of good quality (+3) is 'evil' in the moral sense of the word. So though the game mechanics allow you to wield that sword, you'd have a hard time roleplaying it, especially since Drizzt himself is good-aligned. Killing him is evil, even if the mechanics allow you to wield the sword.

  • AliteriAliteri Member Posts: 308
    edited August 2012
    ^
    Pussy.

    I'm physically incapable of hurting a defenseless villager.
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,207
    edited August 2012
    Aliteri said:

    I'm physically incapable of hurting a defenseless villager.

    Even Neeber?
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853

    Quartz said:

    Miloch said:

    Can't believe no-one's mentioned the cheesiest reason for being good yet. It allows you to use super-munchkin Drizzt's super-scimitar +5 when you use super-cheesy tactics to waste him :).

    ?? what's Good about killing Drizzt?

    He has the "Scimitar +5, Defender" sword which is actually lying. It's +3. But anyway, +3 Scimitar that gives you a -2 to your AC. You can only use it if you are of good alignment, that's what Miloch meant. Anyway it's pretty much the most beast weapon in the game.
    That's a different meaning of the word 'good'. Killing someone because he has a 'good' sword in the sense of a sword of good quality (+3) is 'evil' in the moral sense of the word. So though the game mechanics allow you to wield that sword, you'd have a hard time roleplaying it, especially since Drizzt himself is good-aligned. Killing him is evil, even if the mechanics allow you to wield the sword.
    Okay look. Please reread what Miloch said. Here, I'll even put it right here "Can't believe no-one's mentioned the cheesiest reason for being good yet. It allows you to use super-munchkin Drizzt's super-scimitar +5 when you use super-cheesy tactics to waste him :)." He is not talking about the ACT of being good, he is talking about good ALIGNMENT *allowing you to use his sword.* Please stop arguing with me trying to explain someone else's post, you are completely missing the point. He is talking about power-gaming, YOU are talking about actual roleplaying. You are on a completely different page, and I understand your confusion but please stop telling me how stupid I am. Peace~!
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190


    You must be referencing source materials I have not used. Chaotic by the very definition of the word means there will be no structured ordered process to a goal... It APPEARS to me like you are trying to define Chaotic Evil by blurring the meaning and pulling in the essence of lawful evil...in any case. In CRPG's you can pick Chaotic Evil and play the game as if you were Lawful good and there is no consequence, there really is no DM adjudicating the matter.

    Simply put, if your definition of Chaotic were accurate, societies of creatures that are largely Chaotic Evil like orcs and drow simply could not exist. They would destroy themselves overnight.

    And, again, Sarevok is Chaotic Evil, and clearly has an ordered process he's going through to achieve his goal.

    Obviously, characters that simply cannot function in society and destroy everything in their path are indeed Chaotic Evil, but that is not what all Chaotic Evil characters are like.
  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664
    edited August 2012
    Again I am not aware that Orcs were a Chaotic Society...Many of the Canon novels have them as being evil but honorable in their way, and where they do end up being chaotic it is in a mindless manner with one exceptional individual leading them/forcing them but when left to their own devices they fall apart.

    As for Sarevok he is a CRPG construct and as I said CRPGs don't use the alignment characteristics properly.
    I would also point out that in AD&D there are not many "Chaotic" evil societies that I can think of...the Demons are not known for great endevors, mostly for just rampaging hoards of Destruction Whereas the Drow are some times depicted as Chaotic their Highly rigid caste structure is actually a lawful construct.

    I think more often than not the people who want to play Evil PC's are actually thinking of Neutral and Lawful evil and misconstruing it as Chaotic as if Chaotic Evil is somehow MORE evil or More powerfully evil but the law . chaos and neutrality portions of the alignment are not in any way a DEGREE indicator.
  • AliteriAliteri Member Posts: 308

    Aliteri said:

    I'm physically incapable of hurting a defenseless villager.

    Even Neeber?
    Don't you feel bad for the poor bastard?
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,207
    Aliteri said:

    Don't you feel bad for the poor bastard?

    He reminds me of the average pre-teen MMORPG player. So no, no I don't.
  • SirK8SirK8 Member Posts: 527
    For me it really depends on the character class and concept I have in mind, but I do lean toward Good. I did start the game as a Neutral Evil character once and found it was rewarding to experience the game a different way (probably really hard if it's your first time through).

    One of my favorite characters is a CG Fighter who likes to abuse the fact that he's been hired to investigate things. Obviously this commission includes rummaging through other peoples belongings and breaking and entering. I mean why would you lock anything if you didn't have anything to hide? Oh that's a suspicious looking gem, better confiscate it. If it checks out, we'll hawk it to fund our cause, so you can rest assure you're doing your part to put a stop to this iron shortage.

    He's also a bit of a brawler, he's not evil, so he doesn't go around hurting innocents, but he'll pick a fight if he feels slighted and if you poke him, he'll push back.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838


    You must be referencing source materials I have not used. Chaotic by the very definition of the word means there will be no structured ordered process to a goal... It APPEARS to me like you are trying to define Chaotic Evil by blurring the meaning and pulling in the essence of lawful evil...in any case. In CRPG's you can pick Chaotic Evil and play the game as if you were Lawful good and there is no consequence, there really is no DM adjudicating the matter.

    Simply put, if your definition of Chaotic were accurate, societies of creatures that are largely Chaotic Evil like orcs and drow simply could not exist. They would destroy themselves overnight.

    And, again, Sarevok is Chaotic Evil, and clearly has an ordered process he's going through to achieve his goal.

    Obviously, characters that simply cannot function in society and destroy everything in their path are indeed Chaotic Evil, but that is not what all Chaotic Evil characters are like.
    Drow (at least since 3e but I believe they were that way in AD&D) are Neutral Evil not Chaotic Evil.

    I always viewed chaotic evil as they follow the strongest/most powerful character. You're personal structure is whatever you can take for yourself through whatever means necessary.

    You also talk of orcs. I'll use the example of King Obould Many-Arrows who combined the orc clans in the North through strength of arms.

    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Obould

    That said, what he was worried about was that his sons would destroy what he created. And that is the real threat of Chaotic Evil based societies. If there is no one strong to lead them or infighting then progress can quickly be halted. This same "Strongest should rule" is the same process that Sarevok uses, like King Obould he has enough intelligence to think through (to a degree). He has plans that he wants to put in place to help make him the next lord of murder and since he's the strongest (and tries to kill anyone who might threaten him in that aspect) it only makes sense for him to take his fathers title.
  • JolanthusJolanthus Member Posts: 292

    Aliteri said:

    Don't you feel bad for the poor bastard?

    He reminds me of the average pre-teen MMORPG player. So no, no I don't.
    Most of us have been through that stage of wanting attention, so yes, I do feel bad for him.
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,207
    Jolanthus said:

    Most of us have been through that stage of wanting attention, so yes, I do feel bad for him.

    Despite my dislike of him, I actually tend to let him join my party to help fight the genie guard. Yay for Ring of Human Influence. Doesn't usually end well though and I can't cast Raise Dead on him. Oh well.
  • MilochMiloch Member Posts: 863
    Quartz said:

    Drizzt has the "Scimitar +5, Defender" sword which is actually lying. It's +3. But anyway, +3 Scimitar that gives you a -2 to your AC. You can only use it if you are of good alignment, that's what Miloch meant. Anyway it's pretty much the most beast weapon in the game.

    Yeah, that's right. It's called +5 but only +3... I suppose maybe the AC bonus figures into that description, still not very accurate. Crazy bad weapon for BG1 though, maybe even for BG2. I put one of the scimitars on my F/T and one on Khalid and stuff is dead before we even walk up to it. Minsc is like, "Huh? Must kick butt, but there is no more butt to kick!" Anyway, the one scimitar at least has an alignment restriction, meaning you have to be good to wield it, also meaning you have to be good to kill him. Some folks consider it cheese, but I can roleplay it. See, he looks like a drow, quacks like a drow, must be evil. *I* don't know he's some munchkin superhero good guy. He just told me he's fighting some gnolls. No clue about his alignment there. So after we're done with the gnolls, I just surround him with my former colleagues and give him the business end of a dozen or so halberds (it takes a while but is rewarding in the end). Yes, there's a reputation hit, but I still feel it's a "good" act :).
  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    edited August 2012
    Yes, yes i am certain i am Good.

    Light -> Check. I always carry around torches or have my mages carry fancy stuff that illuminates even the darkest dungeons.

    Justice-> Check. I am pleased to announce that my sense of justice is absolute. If you try to cross me in any way, it is only just and fair that you're going down.

    Honour-> Double Check. I fight honorably and am very proud to say so. I won't come and backstab you or trick you to drop your guard, i want to SEE the terror in your eyes as i'm coming face to face and directly to kick your ass all over the place!

    In all honesty i am a Good character, i just think some people have a perverted sense of good and call me Evil

    0:]
  • AnduineAnduine Member Posts: 416
    edited August 2012
    Arabus13 said:



    How we play video games (when no one is looking) says more about our true nature than anything else we do. When covered by the cloak of the internet, we allow the masks we present to the everyday world to slip. I would imagine many of us have seen those gamers who exist simply to cause grief and those willing to help for no other reason than to be helpful.

    I also get riled up when someone says that games aren't real life! Most gamers I know (including me) expend an enourmous amount of energy, time, and sometimes money in pursuing their hobby either online or at a tabletop. This part of their life is a real as duck hunting, fishing, or playing golf.


    What an unfair and short-sighted post. So by your beliefs, every person on Earth who plays any game like Grand Theft Auto, bloody FPSs, etc, are all evil psychopathic monsters? I know I'm not perfect, but just because I enjoy blowing heads off and blowing up cars in some video games does not mean that I am some sadistic demon of a person who would do those same things in real life the moment "the masks we present to the everyday world to slip".
  • Fake_SketchFake_Sketch Member Posts: 217
    I always say to myself "This time, Ill be evil" but I cant bring myself to do it. THIS TIME I WILL.
  • taletotelltaletotell Member Posts: 74
    I'd like to see a few more quests were playing dr Phil doesn't work. Ragefast should say "She's my nymph. I don't care if she likes it, she's less than I am and there fore subservient to me!"
    I am good and therefore am often not put in a position to fight for intellectual reasons and am left mostly killin cardboard villains and monsters who are evil just because. Let me try to talk some one down and fail. Let the neutral route work more often. Like the suicidal guy on the lion's way in BG 1 who responds best to you saying "I don't care."
    How about a quest where you help create competition for the slavers so one group doesn't monopolize it. Realistically you can't stamp out all the trafficking but at least you can ensure that on villain doesn't get to powerful and take control of the whole city.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    edited August 2012
    Sorry @immagikman, but i agree with @Schneidend here, to call any chaotic evil stupid is to be short shighted. Sarevok is the best example the game can give you of a inteligent chaotic evil character.

    Let's understand how this work:

    Chaotic reject the laws of society (of his society). No rules bind him. So his evil has no control, but control doesn't mean inteligence and his lack doesn't mean stupid.

    You can make a stupid evil with chaotic evil, but to say all chaotic evil character is stupid is fallacy.

    Edit: finsh of reading all the posts now so lemme add more comments.

    Chaos isn't nihilism that is self destructive, i suggest the book "does god play dices?", it's an interesting reading. You can view chaos as just an complex set of events that are too entangled to be undestand, or as evolution itself.

    Law is a mean that society use to preserve itself, it's a set of rules made by members of a society to try to keep it. However change is evolution and no law can survive the touch of chaos, because time is on chaos side.

    Well back to the post:

    I like evil more, it's funnier and i feel more realist with an evil character. But this is roleplay i use all kinds of alignment, not only evil.
  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664
    edited August 2012
    @kamuizin and other, we shall simply agree to disagre, I say CRPGs (and a lot of DM's) tend to mischaracterize Chaotic Evil and that Sarevok is more Neutral Evil with Lawful tendencies and not a representative of Chaotic.. :)
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190

    @kamuizin and other, we shall simply agree to disagre, I say CRPGs (and a lot of DM's) tend to mischaracterize Chaotic Evil and that Sarevok is more Neutral Evil with Lawful tendencies and not a representative of Chaotic.. :)

    Using demons to characterize all Chaotic Evil characters is a bit like using 10k word essays to characterize all homework assignments. You're talking about an extreme. Demons are essentially (and, in 4E, literally) elemental evil, destruction and debauchery incarnate. Even within that group of absolute extreme CE, the demon prince Graz'zt is a long game mastermind on par with Bane or Asmodeus. The true leader of the Iron Throne in 3E (Sarevok and his adoptive father just lead the Baldur's Gate chapter, IIRC) is a CE demoness whose name I cannot recall, and she uses the Iron Throne's legitimate merchant interests as a front for all sorts of nasty business, just like Sarevok did.

    The implication that Chaotic and insanity are entirely synonymous is a fallacy.

    (Virtually) All lunatic characters are Chaotic, but not all Chaotic characters are lunatics.
  • xLegionxxLegionx Member Posts: 197
    edited August 2012
    Wow...why so many goody goodies? You guys need to embrace the evil side. Rather than save the civilians whom have been kidnapped by orcs, let the orcs kill them and move on with your life. Who cares?! They're just useless fools with no purpose in life than to serve their powerful betters.

    May darkness, injustice, and betrayal lead you to your rightful place. Always. >:)

    All evil guys you should join me in the fight against the paladins on my thread http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/3038/fellow-blackguards-rise-up-the-paladins-shall-perish-rp-forum#latest.

    All you Goodie toe-shoes stay out of it. You have no place in it! >:)
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    @xLegionx
    Eh. Depends on how much the county is paying for rescuing the hostages or eliminating the orcs, and on how badly I'm in need of some good PR...and whether or not I've been laid in a while. Tavern wenches are suckers for heroics.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    To be chaotic (be good or evil) is to play outside the protection of the society, for that you need be strong enough to face the world without the protection of society, you don't believe in rules and protect, pursue, and conquer based in your own effort.

    Strenght isn't only brute power, it can come from inteligence, can be born in insight as many other forms of power exist.

    There's no agree or disagree here, i really liked many of your posts @immagikman, but here you are absolutelly wrong, i know you will not like that and believe me i don't want to offend you in any way, but as i said before to put chaotic evil as stupid is to limit the roleplay and possibilities of a chaotic behavior.

    When you do that you try to classify chaos with a lawful behavior, you can't rationalize a chaotic behavior with a lawful concept, otherwise the result will be always this.

    For a lawful person, chaos is an error, an mistake. By other side for chaotic person, lawful is short sighted, limited, weak (in an ample term). Neither are right or wrong and both need the other to exist.

    When you choose an alignment in game, the game give only an example, that's not the full definition of the alignment.
  • xLegionxxLegionx Member Posts: 197
    edited August 2012
    Kamuizin, don't waste your breath on this fool! He serves those miserable paladins in their church or whatever. Fools all fo them!! They shall all feel the end of my blade before this day is done!!! >:)

    Ok personally I've been reading alot of interesting posts and IMO there are alignments within alignments based on your ability scores. Allow me to explain: Someone who is incredibly smart and wise (my drow necromancer for example) and is Chaotic evil will be achieving the process of power the "smart" way until he has a chance to go chaotic. Sarevok, for example, was using society's laws to elevate his own status so he can use that status for chaotic purposes. Being Chaotic evil does not necessarily mean your "Crazy and nuts" like most people believe. Take Korgan for example. He is Chaotic evil too and obeys the laws within society but he threatens constantly to axe everyone who insults him. Or even DOES it half the time. Sarevok is the exact same way. Lawful evil is basically someone who wants to elevate to higher status and keep it...forever. He wants everyones gold, really strict order, and no one disobeys him or his laws or else he orders them to the headsman's axe. See he probably could kill his enemies himself but he has his "servants" do it in the way that obeys the laws of society such as public execution.
    Compare a dumb lawful evil character and a Chaotic evil character. A dumb Lawful evil character would probably be some dumb slave who betrays his fellow slave brothers of their treachery for an extra silver piece or some food but will not go through any means to kill them himself. He lets the guards do it so that he gains something from it which is not chaotic at all but lawful. A dumb chaotic evil character are serial killers, madmen who like kniving you in the face constantly, or "The Joker" himself...I think. But anyway thats just how I see it. It's all based on your ability scores that really morph your alignment in ways that still stick to it but process somewhat differently. I hope that makes sense. :)
  • Son_of_ImoenSon_of_Imoen Member Posts: 1,806
    edited August 2012
    Quartz said:

    Please stop arguing with me trying to explain someone else's post, you are completely missing the point. He is talking about power-gaming, YOU are talking about actual roleplaying. You are on a completely different page, and I understand your confusion but please stop telling me how stupid I am. Peace~!

    My apologies, I was over-reacting. It all started with me failing to notice the word 'cheesiest', even though it was in the quote of my first reaction. It was a mistake of mine. Peace.
    @Miloch: satisfied though that you find a way to roleplay the encounter ending in killing. It's indeed very well possible CHARNAME has more knowledge of the evilness in Drow in general than of the good hero-reputation of Drizzt.

  • Son_of_ImoenSon_of_Imoen Member Posts: 1,806
    edited August 2012
    @Arabus13
    @Edolon
    @Anduine

    Human psychology is a complicated affair. Arabus13 simplifies things far too much by saying that playing evil in a video game displays our true nature. Why wouldn't the way we act in society reflect our true nature? What indeed is a true nature?

    Human 'nature' is a many-faceted thing. I know I really would like to see this world a better place, to live in a world where everyone is happy, not suffering from poverty or want, not suffering from handicaps, diseases or mental pain. I'm mostly the (non-)average goody two-shoes. (I say non- as well, as I often feel quite alone in not being able to feel happy, just surviving life while there's so much unhappiness, injustice and environmental destruction).

    However, there's a dark (let's say evil) side to me as well: it's not my 'true nature' but it's part of the many facets. It reflects itself in, if I get very tired or angry with the news of the world (for instance the injustices in Syria and other places, the carelessness with our environment or the blindness to peak-oil) I enjoy first-person shooters and blasting people's head off or playing very gory battles in baldur's gate or other games, with lots of slinging spells and slashing swords (i.e.: hurting virtual people) as a way to release steam. I'd never do it in real life (only as a child I have once slapped someone in anger; when some stranger once slapped me as an adult, I just turned my cheek and walked away). But everyone has some kind of dark side i think. Agression is part of our human evolutionary survival arsenal.
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