Let's see what the awesome Jan, Cernd and Yoshimo will bring to my neutral party (ugh...).
Annoyed party members, bored protagonist and... errr... I never really had Yoshimo along so dunno. His "very well.... hi-yahhh..." command sound annoys the hell out of me >.>
I always played with good aligned party. My favorite alignment was Neutral Good. However I was much younger when I was playing BG and games in general and my view on the world was much different...I was much more idealistic at that time and it reflected even on my games. Needless to say I am much older (and hopefully wiser) so my POV has changed....alot.
You can pick pocket the tear of bhaal and keep the sword, you know. As long the genius isn't killed, the game will account the quest as done in the good way. Anyway Blackrazor sword is good, but at the time you get it, the sword isn't a unique item anymore, probally you have better items at that time.
True, but I think the updates I have changed it so that I can't exploit that feature anymore It really isnt that great, i know, but I like it and lilarcor cause they each have a little story to them
I always played with good aligned party. My favorite alignment was Neutral Good. However I was much younger when I was playing BG and games in general and my view on the world was much different...I was much more idealistic at that time and it reflected even on my games. Needless to say I am much older (and hopefully wiser) so my POV has changed....alot.
I was in a similar place as a kid. I would always roll Chaotic Good because of that specific line in there about CG characters hating bullies and tyrants. Nowadays, I'm almost always playing Lawful characters except for the occasional CE or CN. I roleplayed a Sith Warrior in the The Old Republic MMO that I'd describe as Lawful Good/Neutral, even. It was fun being the only voice of reason in a sea of grimdark, psychotic "badasses."
Even though my main character is evil, the group I play with (Along with my brother) is mostly neutral, and I'm not the one leading.
The lack of neutral/evil players is disturbing!
The lack may not be as significant as you think. Some of the people that voted "Good" do so only for the reputation/store discounts/alignment items, and play as little good as they can get away with.
It's not pickpocketting @Anduine I swear. It's reappropriating for the common good. And besides I don't even know they might have given it to Imoen. All I heard her say was "look shiney" and I turned my head and next thing I know she has this big grin and this fancy new cloak with +2 charisma.....
It's not pickpocketting @Anduine I swear. It's reappropriating for the common good. And besides I don't even know they might have given it to Imoen. All I heard her say was "look shiney" and I turned my head and next thing I know she has this big grin and this fancy new cloak with +2 charisma.....
My comment was not directed at any one person, but is rather more of an educated impression I got from reading the posts in this thread. I'm not calling it right or wrong, but rather using it as a means to shed some "light" on Kenji's surprise.
It's not pickpocketting @Anduine I swear. It's reappropriating for the common good. And besides I don't even know they might have given it to Imoen. All I heard her say was "look shiney" and I turned my head and next thing I know she has this big grin and this fancy new cloak with +2 charisma.....
My comment was not directed at any one person, but is rather more of an educated impression I got from reading the posts in this thread. I'm not calling it right or wrong, but rather using it as a means to shed some "light" on Kenji's surprise.
Keep yer damn light away from me, lest ye be wantin' a dagger in yer back!
'Sides, ain't noone be surprising me, if anything, it be reversed roles I tell ye!
It's not pickpocketting @Anduine I swear. It's reappropriating for the common good. And besides I don't even know they might have given it to Imoen. All I heard her say was "look shiney" and I turned my head and next thing I know she has this big grin and this fancy new cloak with +2 charisma.....
My comment was not directed at any one person, but is rather more of an educated impression I got from reading the posts in this thread. I'm not calling it right or wrong, but rather using it as a means to shed some "light" on Kenji's surprise.
Keep yer damn light away from me, lest ye be wantin' a dagger in yer back!
'Sides, ain't noone be surprising me, if anything, it be reversed roles I tell ye!
May Tyr, Lord of Justice, one day show you an honourable alternative to your misguided path, shadowy one.
@Auduine Oh I know. For me its hard because there are so many good items available through pickpocketing (2 rings of FA in IWD, 1 ring of FA available in BG2, the cloak in BG), that its "do I wanna play the always do right paladin.....or do I wanna play a paladin who grew up loving (in a sister sense) Imoen and her kleptomaniac ways so kinda just learned to look the other way.
It actually makes it really hard to justify being a paladin at that point. I mean the big 3 paladin deities in BG2 (Helm, Torm, Tyr) all have law as part of their portfolios. I think that means in an actual campaign if your paladin KNEW your thief was pickpocketing She/He'd have to try to give the item back plus reparations.
@Auduine Oh I know. For me its hard because there are so many good items available through pickpocketing (2 rings of FA in IWD, 1 ring of FA available in BG2, the cloak in BG), that its "do I wanna play the always do right paladin.....or do I wanna play a paladin who grew up loving (in a sister sense) Imoen and her kleptomaniac ways so kinda just learned to look the other way.
It actually makes it really hard to justify being a paladin at that point. I mean the big 3 paladin deities in BG2 (Helm, Torm, Tyr) all have law as part of their portfolios. I think that means in an actual campaign if your paladin KNEW your thief was pickpocketing She/He'd have to try to give the item back plus reparations.
I can see what you are saying, especially the issue with upholding your ideals against a family member/close friend. It's not an easy decision. While I play a Paladin, I am not often described as a nice one. I use my Detect Evil spells multiple times per day, and it isn't unheard of for me to slay someone based on that and a short observation of their character. I never look back after doing so, seeing as Detect Evil is never wrong, and either succeeds or is resisted.
It's quite handy being able to cast an instant spell bestowed upon you by your training and your god, knowing exactly who your enemies are.
My open combat with evil and serious demeanor often remind me of angels, and how they are often not perceived as they should be. Most angels are not smiling creatures filled with happiness or joy. They are divine handservants, living with a sense of duty and right that most mortals could only imagine. They smite their enemies without question or remorse, unless told otherwise by their creator. While it may be difficult to imagine creatures so Good being so in tune with combat, I again mention the helpfulness of always knowing who your enemies are.
Ya but in this case you just have a neutral good slightly kleptomaniac sister.
I do know that when I run a paladin and I know NPCs are evil, I either don't kill them/ignore) (if they give me no reason to like Xzar and halfling buddy), I'll save them but not help them (Viconia, NE or not, is always condemned purely for being a drow), or kill them if need be. Being lawful good doesn't mean we can go around beheading whoever we wish.
Heck if I could justify it to myself, I would try to run my blade's group (redemption of Viconia and Sarevok) with a paladin. But Paladin's can't knowingly run with evil people which rules that out. Meanwhile I think the bard would do it just because it would make another good tale.
Being lawful good doesn't mean we can go around beheading whoever we wish.
Ah, but in this fantasy world, we CAN. To be evil, you must have done something to label you so. Thinking evil, feeling evil, these do not MAKE you evil. Therefore, when I cast Detect Evil, I am shown by my god/training all in the area who have done deeds that make them currently evil. I do not believe it would be wrong to remove them from the world.
I do agree with you when it comes to saving but not helping some, though in the case of Viconia, I do not. I have a hatred of the drow, and for good reason. The only one I can tolerate is Drizzt, for obvious reasons.
For some being evil might be nothing more than a means of self preservation or life experiences that led them there. I guess I'm someone who always looks for the good in just about everyone. Except for Boo. Because Boo's good blinds and I like being able to see.
Also we could get into a serious paladin debate about whether or not a person deserves an instant sentence by a paladin. Especially if you're a paladin of Torm (due process and all).
But when the male PMT kicks in evil is the way to go...
To truly play evil... You must act evil...
This means killing all of Reevor's rats AND the cats.
It means when Imeon kindly asks to join you... Stab her in the face and take her equipment.
It means breaking into everyhouse in Beregost and murdering every peasant who hasn't got anything good to say.
It means killing Dynheir slowly in front of Minsc and Boo using a spoon...
It means enjoying the quiet, walking through empty cities and bloody puddles as you have slain all the people...
It means bribing the temple to make people forget your past indisgressions or taking on the commitment to defeat every flaming fist enforcer sent to stop you.
BUT you willl come out stronger. (especially with no xp cap) FAR STRONGER than any good group of pansies.
You are after all the favoured son of a god of murder...
But when the male PMT kicks in evil is the way to go...
To truly play evil... You must act evil...
Well, there's Smart Evil and Not-So-Smart Evil, isn't there?
IMO, Smart Evil is all about achieving your goals at maximum efficiency, no matter the cost - so Smart Evil takes Imoen along not because you like her but because she's the best thief on the Sword Coast. Smart Evil kills Drizzt not for lulz but because his equipment benefits you, whether you sell it or keep it. It means killing Dynaheir simply because Edwin is the more powerful mage and he can serve you better. And Smart Evil avoids unnecessary civilian deaths not because bloodshed makes you squeamish, but because the time you spend being chased around by the Flaming Fist is time you could have spent slowly and painfully dismantling the Iron Throne. (Besides, careful manipulation of reputation lets you do whatever you want right under the Fist's nose).
I agree... We just do things differently. As I would seriously upset the peasant by removing their head and shrinking it into a bauble to wear on my belt, you would simply remove their ears and sell them on into slavery for profit... I must ponder on this more... Does Smart evil = Lawful evil? I must admit, I would be tempted to kill the slaver and take ALL his gold not just the amount he gave for the peasant.
Being lawful good doesn't mean we can go around beheading whoever we wish.
Ah, but in this fantasy world, we CAN. To be evil, you must have done something to label you so. Thinking evil, feeling evil, these do not MAKE you evil. Therefore, when I cast Detect Evil, I am shown by my god/training all in the area who have done deeds that make them currently evil. I do not believe it would be wrong to remove them from the world.
The only one I can tolerate is Drizzt, for obvious reasons.
Obvious how exactly? Your character doesn't neccessarily know that Drizzt is Drizzt or that Drizzt is good; you see a drow fighting a bunch of gnolls. It could just be another fight between evil creatures or maybe the gnolls are neutral victims being beset by the blood-thirsty ebony elf just because he was bored!
I agree... We just do things differently. As I would seriously upset the peasant by removing their head and shrinking it into a bauble to wear on my belt, you would simply remove their ears and sell them on into slavery for profit... I must ponder on this more... Does Smart evil = Lawful evil? I must admit, I would be tempted to kill the slaver and take ALL his gold not just the amount he gave for the peasant.
Actually, I've always interpreted my RP stance as Neutral Evil: you do what's in your best interest, even if that means helping people for rewards or doing things that increase your reputation just enough to keep the authorities off your back. (I tend to keep REP in the 7-9 range.)
I mean, my Bhaalspawn doesn't really care if Bassilus wipes out Beregost, it's not her problem - but the town's offering 5000 GP for his head. That's money she can use to make herself and her team stronger, so if she has to go out of her way to save the town, that's exactly what she'll do. Her ultimate goal is to increase her own power, so in the scenario you've described, she'd kill the slaver, take his gold and free the slaves in order to increase her reputation and possibly get some rewards from the slaves' families.
This also means she doesn't go out of her way to commit atrocities just for evulz, because that would draw unwanted attention (again, looking out for Number 1) and because there's no gain or benefit in killing townsfolk - she'd just see that as a waste of time and energy.
@shawne Can I enquire... On death do you think your Soul would end up with the Chaotic Demons on the Abyssal plains or with the Lawful Devils of the Nine Hells?
It is not clear where neutral evil characters go... And if your a smart evil player... Surely smart enough to pay the gods attention... Do the Hells or the Abyss really garner your interest?
Surely you are a True neutral. Looking after No.1
Evil means at least tormenting the townsfolk (maybe removing fingers or noses) than just letting them go their merry way. Thinking it, just does not cut the mustard, or peasant for that matter, when you have alligned to the path of Evil. It is a path of choice. You need to act Evil to earn your badge!
Bah... When I play BG:EE for the first time it will be as a girly gnome, a lawfully good bard named Flopsy... BUT on my rerun I will be a half-orc, chaotically evil barbarian named Karnage the Gnoll Eater... ALL WILL FALL IN HIS PATH OR BE EATEN! Bwahahhahahahahah!
@Anduin: Given the logical conclusion of a quest for power, my Bhaalspawn will become an evil god. So the afterlife isn't really an issue for her.
The reason I don't torment townsfolk is simply because there's nothing to be gained from it. Why should I bother with a bunch of sheep when Sarevok's out there waiting for me?
As for alignment, the reason my RP is Neutral Evil rather than True Neutral is because TN is all about balance, and my Bhaalspawn prefers shifting the balance in her favor.
The only one I can tolerate is Drizzt, for obvious reasons.
Obvious how exactly? Your character doesn't neccessarily know that Drizzt is Drizzt or that Drizzt is good; you see a drow fighting a bunch of gnolls. It could just be another fight between evil creatures or maybe the gnolls are neutral victims being beset by the blood-thirsty ebony elf just because he was bored!
No, I do not play as a "LawfulStupid" alignment. If anything, I'd play as a "GoodStupid" alignment. Chaotic Good thieves are known to break the law repeatedly, and I do them no harm. Evil, however, is another story. Minsc and I get along fine thanks to his "Kicking the butt of evil in the name of Goodness" style.
As for Drizzt, I rarely limit my player knowledge while playing in a game that I have beaten over 3 dozen times. I've read some novels, and I've been playing Dungeons and Dragons for nearly 20 years. I am well aware that Drizzt is not evil, as are many other players (I hope?). As for in-game knowledge of Drizzt, I make liberal use of Detect Evil, and sometimes Detect Alignment. Having 2 Clerics and a Paladin in the party pretty much allows me unlimited realistic use of Detect Evil every single day.
I would really like a consequence update in BG, so after that we should maybe remake these votes and see how much ppl would stick with good.
Good behavior roleplay:
-Refuse rewards after quests -Don't steal everything you put your eyes (if you have the money to buy something but it's just wasy to steal, don't try to justify it) -Refuse to do some quests in BG (Maer'var thief stronghold quest for example among others) -Do not use evil NPCs or if you take them, don't chose the answers with best reward when bantering with them, but the good aligned answers (what eventually would make Korgan attack you and would frustate Edwin Nether Scroll quest for example). -Do not ally with Bodhi, as in BG2 the Thief/Bodhi ally choice is a chaos/evil choice.
There are some other points to uphold too, you don't need to be perfect, so a good aligned person can steal with the right justify, and some evil quests can be done for the great good too, but if you ignore most of the above behaviors don't try to say you're good, cos it's a hypocrisy.
Paladins and good/neutral aligned monks (anyone inside a class tha request lawful alignment to be used) should refuse to hold stolen items (drop, give back or vanish the item with a text saying the character would return the item to the owner in the first chance).
Comments
The lack of neutral/evil players is disturbing!
The lack may not be as significant as you think. Some of the people that voted "Good" do so only for the reputation/store discounts/alignment items, and play as little good as they can get away with.
'Sides, ain't noone be surprising me, if anything, it be reversed roles I tell ye!
It actually makes it really hard to justify being a paladin at that point. I mean the big 3 paladin deities in BG2 (Helm, Torm, Tyr) all have law as part of their portfolios. I think that means in an actual campaign if your paladin KNEW your thief was pickpocketing She/He'd have to try to give the item back plus reparations.
It's quite handy being able to cast an instant spell bestowed upon you by your training and your god, knowing exactly who your enemies are.
My open combat with evil and serious demeanor often remind me of angels, and how they are often not perceived as they should be. Most angels are not smiling creatures filled with happiness or joy. They are divine handservants, living with a sense of duty and right that most mortals could only imagine. They smite their enemies without question or remorse, unless told otherwise by their creator. While it may be difficult to imagine creatures so Good being so in tune with combat, I again mention the helpfulness of always knowing who your enemies are.
I do know that when I run a paladin and I know NPCs are evil, I either don't kill them/ignore) (if they give me no reason to like Xzar and halfling buddy), I'll save them but not help them (Viconia, NE or not, is always condemned purely for being a drow), or kill them if need be. Being lawful good doesn't mean we can go around beheading whoever we wish.
Heck if I could justify it to myself, I would try to run my blade's group (redemption of Viconia and Sarevok) with a paladin. But Paladin's can't knowingly run with evil people which rules that out. Meanwhile I think the bard would do it just because it would make another good tale.
I do agree with you when it comes to saving but not helping some, though in the case of Viconia, I do not. I have a hatred of the drow, and for good reason. The only one I can tolerate is Drizzt, for obvious reasons.
((Can't wait to RP with my brother and sister all over again!))
For some being evil might be nothing more than a means of self preservation or life experiences that led them there. I guess I'm someone who always looks for the good in just about everyone. Except for Boo. Because Boo's good blinds and I like being able to see.
Also we could get into a serious paladin debate about whether or not a person deserves an instant sentence by a paladin. Especially if you're a paladin of Torm (due process and all).
But when the male PMT kicks in evil is the way to go...
To truly play evil... You must act evil...
This means killing all of Reevor's rats AND the cats.
It means when Imeon kindly asks to join you... Stab her in the face and take her equipment.
It means breaking into everyhouse in Beregost and murdering every peasant who hasn't got anything good to say.
It means killing Dynheir slowly in front of Minsc and Boo using a spoon...
It means enjoying the quiet, walking through empty cities and bloody puddles as you have slain all the people...
It means bribing the temple to make people forget your past indisgressions or taking on the commitment to defeat every flaming fist enforcer sent to stop you.
BUT you willl come out stronger. (especially with no xp cap) FAR STRONGER than any good group of pansies.
You are after all the favoured son of a god of murder...
IMO, Smart Evil is all about achieving your goals at maximum efficiency, no matter the cost - so Smart Evil takes Imoen along not because you like her but because she's the best thief on the Sword Coast. Smart Evil kills Drizzt not for lulz but because his equipment benefits you, whether you sell it or keep it. It means killing Dynaheir simply because Edwin is the more powerful mage and he can serve you better. And Smart Evil avoids unnecessary civilian deaths not because bloodshed makes you squeamish, but because the time you spend being chased around by the Flaming Fist is time you could have spent slowly and painfully dismantling the Iron Throne. (Besides, careful manipulation of reputation lets you do whatever you want right under the Fist's nose).
I agree... We just do things differently. As I would seriously upset the peasant by removing their head and shrinking it into a bauble to wear on my belt, you would simply remove their ears and sell them on into slavery for profit... I must ponder on this more... Does Smart evil = Lawful evil? I must admit, I would be tempted to kill the slaver and take ALL his gold not just the amount he gave for the peasant.
I mean, my Bhaalspawn doesn't really care if Bassilus wipes out Beregost, it's not her problem - but the town's offering 5000 GP for his head. That's money she can use to make herself and her team stronger, so if she has to go out of her way to save the town, that's exactly what she'll do. Her ultimate goal is to increase her own power, so in the scenario you've described, she'd kill the slaver, take his gold and free the slaves in order to increase her reputation and possibly get some rewards from the slaves' families.
This also means she doesn't go out of her way to commit atrocities just for evulz, because that would draw unwanted attention (again, looking out for Number 1) and because there's no gain or benefit in killing townsfolk - she'd just see that as a waste of time and energy.
It is not clear where neutral evil characters go... And if your a smart evil player... Surely smart enough to pay the gods attention... Do the Hells or the Abyss really garner your interest?
Surely you are a True neutral. Looking after No.1
Evil means at least tormenting the townsfolk (maybe removing fingers or noses) than just letting them go their merry way. Thinking it, just does not cut the mustard, or peasant for that matter, when you have alligned to the path of Evil. It is a path of choice. You need to act Evil to earn your badge!
Bah... When I play BG:EE for the first time it will be as a girly gnome, a lawfully good bard named Flopsy... BUT on my rerun I will be a half-orc, chaotically evil barbarian named Karnage the Gnoll Eater... ALL WILL FALL IN HIS PATH OR BE EATEN! Bwahahhahahahahah!
The reason I don't torment townsfolk is simply because there's nothing to be gained from it. Why should I bother with a bunch of sheep when Sarevok's out there waiting for me?
As for alignment, the reason my RP is Neutral Evil rather than True Neutral is because TN is all about balance, and my Bhaalspawn prefers shifting the balance in her favor.
No, I do not play as a "LawfulStupid" alignment. If anything, I'd play as a "GoodStupid" alignment. Chaotic Good thieves are known to break the law repeatedly, and I do them no harm. Evil, however, is another story. Minsc and I get along fine thanks to his "Kicking the butt of evil in the name of Goodness" style.
As for Drizzt, I rarely limit my player knowledge while playing in a game that I have beaten over 3 dozen times. I've read some novels, and I've been playing Dungeons and Dragons for nearly 20 years. I am well aware that Drizzt is not evil, as are many other players (I hope?). As for in-game knowledge of Drizzt, I make liberal use of Detect Evil, and sometimes Detect Alignment. Having 2 Clerics and a Paladin in the party pretty much allows me unlimited realistic use of Detect Evil every single day.
Good behavior roleplay:
-Refuse rewards after quests
-Don't steal everything you put your eyes (if you have the money to buy something but it's just wasy to steal, don't try to justify it)
-Refuse to do some quests in BG (Maer'var thief stronghold quest for example among others)
-Do not use evil NPCs or if you take them, don't chose the answers with best reward when bantering with them, but the good aligned answers (what eventually would make Korgan attack you and would frustate Edwin Nether Scroll quest for example).
-Do not ally with Bodhi, as in BG2 the Thief/Bodhi ally choice is a chaos/evil choice.
There are some other points to uphold too, you don't need to be perfect, so a good aligned person can steal with the right justify, and some evil quests can be done for the great good too, but if you ignore most of the above behaviors don't try to say you're good, cos it's a hypocrisy.
Paladins and good/neutral aligned monks (anyone inside a class tha request lawful alignment to be used) should refuse to hold stolen items (drop, give back or vanish the item with a text saying the character would return the item to the owner in the first chance).