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How Gamers Treat Developers

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  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208
    @Awong124
    the first game i did it on was oblivion when i was trying to figure out if i could play it. i don't think there was ever a demo released. a year later when i updated my comp, i went out and bought it since i was overspec'd by then

  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    @Bjjorick
    I bought Oblivion on impulse one day walking through Bestbuy because it was $20. I couldn't finish it because it got boring.

  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208
    @Awong124
    i agree about it being boring, but mods helped me to finish it and the ending SUCKED.
    but everyone was talking about the game ( i had just moved to texas and didn't know many people but those i did wouldn't shut up about game) so i wanted to give it a try. when i finally did play it, it was prety but ehhh, i realized i don't like those games.

    also, Total war games. I enjoy them but the demos that they release ALWAYS run better then the final game, so i usually d/l them and try. Saved me from buying shogun 2 because my comp couldn't run it at the time despite that i was near recommended system specs.

  • NathanNathan Member Posts: 990
    edited August 2012
    Leronis said:

    I just got back from http://www.rpgcodex.net/ , and oh my, the haters.

    Yeeeaaahhhhh... they don't really like us over there. But, then again, it's not like the hate is solely directed at us. They don't like much of anything over there. I don't even think they like being happy in principle over there.

    I've had more than a few jobs dealing with people far angrier than them over more trivial reasons, and also have been a citizen of the internet since its genesis, so I've toyed with the idea of approaching them to sort of do an interview on behalf of the team or answer questions or whatever - but I'm not sure that would be energy well spent? I'm open to the idea, still, - they're not gonna hurt my feelings any and I'll be as nice as I can about it - but I have a feeling it'd just end up being a farce.

    immagikmanMedullaOblongata
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    @Bjjorick
    It's not that I don't like that type of game. I put something like 150 hours into Skyrim and did everything in it. I just got tired of closing those Oblivion gates over and over again. And since I'm a completionist when it comes to games, I couldn't just make myself ignore them.

  • LeronisLeronis Member Posts: 112
    edited August 2012
    @Nathan

    Going to the codex is just asking for butthurt; with nothin to be gained. But that's just another internet opinion, never to be disposed of properly.

    A Reddit AMA perhaps?

  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    In this thread: Stockholm syndrome / Abused spouse syndrome

    Moomintroll
  • KholdstareKholdstare Member Posts: 160
    I think it depends on the developer, honestly. What Activision does with CoD may be sleazy, but I wouldn't consider them evil for it. They're no Capcom.

    When it comes to Overhaul, you'll get no complaint from me. It's all sunshine and Santa Claus. :)

  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664
    edited August 2012
    Face it a lot of people are just NEGATIVE by nature, got one or two around here Im sure. The problem is not that they hate, it's that they have to be militant about it..to push their hate onto others, rather than just saying...Hey this game isn't for me...let me do something else. They want to force people to do what they want....but wouldnt be happy if they succeeded :)

    For example, Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout those games are FANTASTIC for a certain type of gamer...but you have to get it, to be one of the people like that TYPE of game......otherwise it is boring. Many people thing BG is boring...to much reading ..too much thought involved.

    me personally I cannot do RTS type games, I just DO NOT like them, but you dont see me on the Starcraft forums tying to force them to make it turn based....I moved on.

    I really like periods ... --- ... ... --- ... ...................................

    TanthalasmlneveseMedullaOblongata
  • NathanNathan Member Posts: 990
    Yes, we'll likely look into doing a Reddit AMA. It seems to be the thing to do - and I imagine that quite a few of the codex'ers will find their way over to that thread to ask questions and/or spew vitriol, and I'll try my best to answer and ignore/make light of where appropriate. =)

    immagikmanKholdstare
  • LeronisLeronis Member Posts: 112
    @nathan
    Well haters gonna hate. That's always so on the internet. Why not check out some previous AMAs? Most redditors are far more interested in displaying their cleverness and cats and naughtybits, than snark.

  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @immagikman

    Exactly. There are some people that simply will not rest until they convince everyone that their opinion of a game is the only one that matters.

    Its ridiculous. There are people that I've seen on boards of a game they hate for years bashing anyone that likes the game.

    immagikmanMedullaOblongata
  • ChippyChippy Member Posts: 241
    Thanks, I'm glad (and hope it means well for BG sales) that most seem to share the view that gamers can support developers. There's always the risk that putting forward the oppinion I did will result in someone just calling me an elitist, cave-dwelling, hardcore, uppity bald virgin...

  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664
    Chippy said:

    Thanks, I'm glad (and hope it means well for BG sales) that most seem to share the view that gamers can support developers. There's always the risk that putting forward the oppinion I did will result in someone just calling me an elitist, cave-dwelling, hardcore, uppity bald virgin...
    Don't forget Fan Boy :)

    Chippy
  • SilenceSilence Member Posts: 437
    RPGcodex treats every game harshly: Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 3, Diablo 3...the list goes on. There's plenty of smack talk, homophobic inuendo and racial slurs, but that's typical of the internet. Interspersed between all that is honestly some great analysis of the marketing, play and design of video games.

    I often wonder why these guys don't just get up off their own a$$ and apply their talent. Instead of posting angry comments about video games to come, they could actually make a great game of their own. But I guess it's always easier to criticize than to apply yourself.

    MedullaOblongata
  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664
    Silence said:


    I often wonder why these guys don't just get up off their own a$$ and apply their talent. Instead of posting angry comments about video games to come, they could actually make a great game of their own. But I guess it's always easier to criticize than to apply yourself.

    Lack of skill/ability and creativity. It's far easier to be a Monday Morning Quarterback....and you don't have to get out of your mom's basement to do it.

  • AliteriAliteri Member Posts: 308
    edited August 2012
    @Silence said:

    I often wonder why these guys don't just get up off their own a$$ and apply their talent. Instead of posting angry comments about video games to come, they could actually make a great game of their own. But I guess it's always easier to criticize than to apply yourself.

    A handful of them are indie developers, a few others are modders and so on.

    I'm not a member of the codex community and for a time I actually thought they were all shit but I eventually came around after reading some quality posts, reviews (some of the best out there, both praising AND criticizing) and realizing some boards are more productive than others (basically staying away from the general discussion board), but from the way I see it there are 2 misconceptions about the RPG Codex.

    One is the idea that they are a hivemind, which they aren't, and the other is that they all hate every new game, which they don't (after all, they aren't a hivemind). Their opinions differ. At first glance you'd think that they all hate everything that's new but there are Witcher and Dragon Age (1) fans around. No doubt what is the most ambitious gameplay module mod for DA:O is being made by one quality codex poster.

    Another thing is that they 'encourage freedom of speech' (meaning that they barely moderate their own forums) causing many of their boards to be filled with trolls - the kind that calls everything shit and spams images to appear clever, in short tries to gain 'circle jerk points' no matter what.

    I'm not defending everything that happens there though. I think that their extreme defense of freedom of speech (read: lax moderation, if any) allowed for slurs to take over the board and become the sort of buzzword crappy and apologetic developer toss around to make their worse than average game look better. But quite frankly, I think that some developer boards out there are much, much worse.

    @Leronis

    The moment you become selective about what is a customer concern and what isn't, you begin losing sales and opportunities. Complaining about other's complaining A) Makes the situation worse, B) Makes yourself look worse and C) Applies a veiled form of censorship.

    Silence
  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664
    edited August 2012
    Freedom of speech by some is code for freedom for civility and manners :P The worst part of the internet is that it allows social misfits freedom from having to actually physically face those they berate.

    I admit I may be biased, I have to interview and and hire people without any developed skills at team work and being in a civil setting, half the time they end up getting canned because they cannot keep a civil manner and HR deems them a liability :P

  • AliteriAliteri Member Posts: 308
    edited August 2012

    Freedom of speech by some is code for freedom for civility and manners :P The worst part of the internet is that it allows social misfits freedom from having to actually physically face those they berate.

    I'd much rather a board full of nonsensical slurs with a few amazing and bright discussions than a board full of veiled slurs and fanboyism with a few amazing and bright discussions (that must NEVER infringe on his holiness the board owner).

    Civility and manners do not produce miracles, otherwise the Diablo 3 lead designer wouldn't have felt oh-so-insulted by David Breivik's extremely polite interview.

  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664
    edited August 2012
    @Aliteri
    So you won't mind if I come to your place and am completely inconsiderate, rude and immature simply because I will not be a fan boy? I stand by my statement, it is completely possible to disagree and voice that disagreement without degenerating to the gutter vocabulary and rudeness that you are so blithely defending as somehow constructive. This anarchistic nihilistic approach is just a sign of a decaying sick society on the brink of collapse.

    being a constructive critic does not equate to Fan Boy.

  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @Aliteri

    While Jay Wilson's outburst was pretty stupid on his part, I wouldn't call David Breivik's interview as extremely polite. It looked to me that he was just piggybacking on all the hate to throw out some veiled potshots at Blizzard.

    immagikman
  • e3r4t5yne3r4t5yn Member Posts: 42
    Some devs are devoted gamers themselves as well ;)

    immagikmanMedullaOblongata
  • AliteriAliteri Member Posts: 308
    @immagikman

    Re-read the post you're criticizing. The paragraph you're calling me for starts with 'I'm not defending everything that happens there though.'

    @Tanthalas

    See if you can follow my logic.

    Jay Wilson claims that David Brevik's words are cause for outburst and insult to the creative competence and work of his team, correct? This puts the creative visions behind Diablo 1/2 and Diablo 3 at odds with each other.

    By following Jay Wilson's logic, which is maintained in his apology to the fanbase, David Breivik also has reason for insult towards Jay Wilson. Personally even, since David is the franchise's creator.

    And this is undeniable, because the fanbase is broken and at odds with itself as well.

    The difference is that one expressed, as immagikman would put it, with civility - the other said 'fuck that loser'. Pissing on one of the 3 grand names (Diablo, Blizzard Entertainment and World of Warcraft) that made Diablo 3 the fastest selling PC game so far.

    NWN_babaYaga
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @Aliteri

    Just because he was being civil that doesn't mean that he was being extremely polite, which was what I was getting at. You don't need to use curse words to insult someone.

  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664
    edited August 2012
    @Aliteri
    A. I do not see anywhere in the post I quoted the words "Im not defending"
    B. I believe you see a point I was making, one doesn't have to be insulting and rude to get the point across
    C. Not really calling you out so much as making certain in my own inimitable way that you understood what I was trying to say :D No hard feelings. Pax.
    D. I would say there is never a good reason to be insulting and rude on another persons forum...realizing of course that emotions some times run high and things slip...but it shouldn't be par for the course and it should not be tolerated as acceptable either....not if you want to be part of a civilization.

  • NathanNathan Member Posts: 990
    Aliteri said:

    One is the idea that they are a hivemind, which they aren't, and the other is that they all hate every new game, which they don't (after all, they aren't a hivemind).

    That's a very good point, and one I'll try to remember going forward. It's easy to forget that the vast majority of the really intense trolling and vitriol is put forward by a small percentage of the total community over any one issue - I guess maybe, it's in human nature for few people to speak up unless it's to rant about how they dislike something in general, not just on a forum. Oh man, though, some of the vitriol is uncalled for - difference of opinions is one thing, but there are a few choice quotes from over thataway that made me sit back and blink a bit. Whatever helps the person sleep at night, I suppose.

    aaaaanyway.

    Would there be interest in Team Overhaul doing an AMAA at this point in time? If it were to go down, I'd assume sometime next week when everyone's here would be the time to do it.

  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    Ask me almost anything

    I think.

  • AliteriAliteri Member Posts: 308
    edited August 2012
    Tanthalas said:

    @Aliteri

    Just because he was being civil that doesn't mean that he was being extremely polite, which was what I was getting at. You don't need to use curse words to insult someone.

    Politeness is the application of etiquette. Civility is also defined as a synonim of politeness. Bottom line is that both designers are at odds, though one said 'fuck that loser' and the other was both critical and polite/civil.

    @immagikman

    I said:

    'I'm not defending everything that happens there though. I think that their extreme defense of freedom of speech (read: lax moderation, if any) allowed for slurs to take over the board and become the sort of buzzword crappy and apologetic developer toss around to make their worse than average game look better. But quite frankly, I think that some developer boards out there are much, much worse.'

    You said:

    'Freedom of speech by some is code for freedom for civility and manners :P'

    I believe you thought I downplayed the need for civility while I actually said that I do not defend their lax moderation myself.

    When I said that I'd rather a anarchic board than a totalitarian one, I'm not complaining when moderators delete posts like:

    'HOLY MOTHER OF GOD ITS SHIT AND A CERTAIN WRITER IS THE CANCER OF GAMING'.

    I'm talking about this: http://i.imgur.com/NEqXr.jpg

    Or when a moderator edits a critical original post to make it sound inflammatory and THEN locking the thread and banning the user.

    In the end, both boards (keeping the Internet trend) are full of shit but still do have one bright spot or another. One is full of easily ignored nonsense. The other is opressing. I, personally, do not agree with either extreme, but one is more comfortable than the other.

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