@Leronis Are you talking about Overhaul or developers in general? Some developers are worthy of praise, some are not. Overhaul? They aren't much of a developer, they just make slightly enhanced versions of old games. Modders do this sort of stuff for free. As for the price? if enough people are willing to pay this full price, I guess it's justified, but I won't pay it.
So I have to ask...you say you won't buy this and you insult the people making this product....is your life so empty and dull you have nothing better to do than to post on a forum for a product you have no interest in? Jeez get a life man.
I'm not sure whether or not I'll buy this game, but I'm a fan of Baldur's Gate and am glad to see it being revived and I like to participate in discussions about it. I'm not sure if the enhanced edition has enough new content to be worth buying for me (still have the original), but I guess it's good for people who didn't get a chance to play Baldur's Gate before. I didn't insult anyone but you just did and that's uncalled for.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: gamers are the biggest pack of self-entitled whiners on the face of this planet. Devs can literally never win. No matter what they do, some bloated section of their fanbase will hate any given decision, and they will roar it from the mountaintops to try and make themselves appear as anything besides a vocal minority. Take that whole ME3 ending fiasco. I've never seen a more disgusting display of bandwagon, mob mentality in all my years.
I resent this. The ending was terrible quality compared to the rest of not only Mass Effect 3, but also Mass Effect 2 and 1.
Is that disgusting? A carefully researched alternative, which doesn't change the Reapers motives but only fixes the major problems most gamers had with the original?
Anyways sorry for going off subject, Mass Effect is the only series which has ever been as close to my heart as Baldur's Gate, and unlike Baldur's Gate's ending Mass Effect was a huge disappointment. I'm writing a novel length fanfiction with an alternative ending as my own personal head-canon therapy.
Gamer's can be truly atrocious, but Beamdog is a beacon of civilization amidst the crushing reality of vile and fallen monstrosities. I am disappointed that the game art was lost, but in awe of their honesty when all I've come to expect from developers is nastiness and lies. Even Bioware fell pray to this, and admitted that ME3's ending was deliberately vague because they wanted people to talk about it. Vague doesn't make a good story, its just bad storytelling.
I've so far been really happy with Beamdog. I may not like DRM but I understand why companies think its necessary, even though it doesn't work. At least Beamdog's is as un-intrusive as possible. They've also been very forthright and honest, not made promises they couldn't keep, and offered to add and fix more things post release. Altogether I may have found my new favorite developer. At least until I'm rich enough to make my own game developing company ;-)
I agree with @EpitomyofShyness. Bioware/EA, or rather, EAware, as I prefer to call them, have just totally ruined one of their flagship series just by making bad decisions, overhyping their game and blatant PR lies. A few examples: 'Mass Effect 3 is the best entry point in the trilogy', 'Mass Effect won't have A, B and C endings' etc. Guess what the fans got? Day one DLC featuring a character that was important lore-wise (you can't just deny this, even though the character itself wasn't essential as a squadmate), face import bug (some people found themselves to be unable to smoothly import their Shepard from the two previous games into the new engine - crucial mistake), ME 2 romances got shoved aside as if they practically didn't exist, giving useless characters in exchange (EDI the sexbot...cameltoe included), Tali's face being a stock photo of one or the other ordinary woman and not an original art concept (and that while the ME 1 artbook featured many potentially good Quarian faces), the controversy concerning IGN's Jessica Chobot (implying political inerplay behind the scenes between Bioware and gaming review site IGN to get better reviews) and last but not least the ending fiasco (the player having a pointless talk with Starbrat and having to choose between three endings - A, B, C ending, is that you?). I think people have many LEGITIMATE complaints concerning Mass Effect 3. Granted, the whining is starting to get annoying by now, but still. You're seeing things too black-and-white, @Schneidend.
I'm not sure whether or not I'll buy this game, but I'm a fan of Baldur's Gate and am glad to see it being revived and I like to participate in discussions about it. I'm not sure if the enhanced edition has enough new content to be worth buying for me (still have the original), but I guess it's good for people who didn't get a chance to play Baldur's Gate before. I didn't insult anyone but you just did and that's uncalled for.
Now see...that makes sense to me and unravels the kink in my brain that I got before I understood your reasoning
As for insults yeah you did throw one out there, here it is:
" Overhaul? They aren't much of a developer, "
My comment was just as called for as yours was.....and in my opinion, they were both unnecessary.
Resent it all you want, but while the ending didn't blow me away it was perfectly fine. Attempting to act like the ending was objectively bad and demanding that Bioware change it is the behavior of spoiled children. I didn't like anything in the latter half of Jim Butcher's novel Turn Coat, but I didn't write him a letter about how he's a terrible person and writer who sold his soul to appease his publishers and the almighty dollar. Only ignorant, self-important morons do things like that.
It's simple beyond belief and permeates practically every pore of the online world.
People need to express themselves, to state their opinions, especially negative ones. We all, inherently, strive to shift existence according to our vision of perfection or at least "rightness". It's one of the basest human behaviours along with survival, procreation and all that other stuff and we're all aware of it consciously or otherwise.
There are, of course, degrees of practicality of acceptability of said behaviours, like with everything one can go too far. While it's certainly possible that the person in question "has no life", it's far from being a requirement. Just like his comment, yours too is merely venting frustration (which isn't something to be ashamed of as some would lead you to believe).
Resent it all you want, but while the ending didn't blow me away it was perfectly fine. Attempting to act like the ending was objectively bad and demanding that Bioware change it is the behavior of spoiled children. I didn't like anything in the latter half of Jim Butcher's novel Turn Coat, but I didn't write him a letter about how he's a terrible person and writer who sold his soul to appease his publishers and the almighty dollar. Only ignorant, self-important morons do things like that.
Customers have a right to demand changes in the product and businesses need to adapt to their market. It's the way of nature. Just like the fans you accuse, you are pretending that the change and demand for it were objectively bad yet yours is just another opinion.
Did you know that ignorant, self-important morons resurrected Sherlock Holmes? Maybe he should've stayed dead after his confrontation with Moriarty, I don't know, but it happened.
Self-important morons also wrote letters to Paramount and brought back Star Trek thank the Q.
@Schneidend: 'The ending was perfectly fine'. No, it was not. Maybe you think it was, but still, that's just your opinion. From a narrative point of view, ME 3's endings were far from 'fine'. They left the player behind with more questions than answers and contained a great deal of plotholes, the majority of which are still present in the Extended Cut. Customers have a right to voice their opinion and give feedback on a product. This in no way makes them 'entitled brats', because then you also would have to call yourself an entitled brat, @Schneidend. You are, just like us, just one of many consumers, afterall, so get down from your high horse, thanks. Change is not necessarily bad. On the contrary, developers might learn something from feedback, they might understand what is important to their company's customers and what they like. You act as if customers just have to get the product shoved into their mouth and choke on it if they don't like it. That's not how a business works, heh.
@Schneidend I am glad you didn't hate the ending, however insulting me and @Kitteh_On_A_Cloud is uncalled for. I didn't insult you, and I would appreciate it if you would stop calling me a "spoiled child, ignorant, self-important moron." Thank you.
@Bjjorick@Konabuga Ack. Ack. is a reference to the Mars Attacks! movie. The clip in the first post is only 20 seconds. "Ack. ack. Don't run. We are your friends." is one of the few times that the martians say anything besides ACK. or "We come in peace."
Sorry no cats. But you do have the ENTIRE rest of the internet for cats and midget porn.
@Schneidend I am glad you didn't hate the ending, however insulting me and @Kitteh_On_A_Cloud is uncalled for. I didn't insult you, and I would appreciate it if you would stop calling me a "spoiled child, ignorant, self-important moron." Thank you.
Exactly. I have no issues with you voicing your opinion, @Schneidend, but there's no reason for insults. Not all gamers are like how you are portraying them. Let's ME 3 again for example. Most people didn't even want a happy rainbow ending. They just wanted a coherent story. Really, no more than that.
I'm not sure whether or not I'll buy this game, but I'm a fan of Baldur's Gate and am glad to see it being revived and I like to participate in discussions about it. I'm not sure if the enhanced edition has enough new content to be worth buying for me (still have the original), but I guess it's good for people who didn't get a chance to play Baldur's Gate before. I didn't insult anyone but you just did and that's uncalled for.
Now see...that makes sense to me and unravels the kink in my brain that I got before I understood your reasoning
As for insults yeah you did throw one out there, here it is:
" Overhaul? They aren't much of a developer, "
My comment was just as called for as yours was.....and in my opinion, they were both unnecessary.
"Overhaul? They aren't much of a developer, they just make slightly enhanced versions of old games", was an observation. It's even in the developer's name. This doesn't mean that they are bad at what they do or that what they do isn't worth doing, but it means that I don't regard them in the same way that I do with developers who make their own games. If you feel insulted by that statement, I'm sorry that you do. If you feel I insulted someone else, I'd kindly ask you to let that someone respond instead of assuming that.
"@Leronis Are you talking about Overhaul or developers in general? Some developers are worthy of praise, some are not. Overhaul? They aren't much of a developer, they just make slightly enhanced versions of old games. Modders do this sort of stuff for free. As for the price? if enough people are willing to pay this full price, I guess it's justified, but I won't pay it."
IDK what opinion of mine that you are referencing. IDK much about Overhaul, except that they are remastering a game i love, and that some there have authored or modded BG. I will wait for enough user reviews on metacritic, and if BGEE delivers, i will buy it.
hmmmm... need some chuckles on a monday morning. This?:
The first computer games I played were made by small teams or even a single person. People back then had hardly a need to document what they did. Were there bugfixes? Nada.
Over time the team sizes increased. Now you had programmers, visual artists, sound artists. Games looked better. The quality of the in-game music and in-game sound improved. Bugfixes were still rare. I dunno if the teams (at least the programmers) started to document what they did. Did they backup their development materials including the source code? Who knows.
Customers were given the "finished" product in binary form. If you wanted to do some bug fixes by yourself you had to be good at assembler and needed quite some time to understand what the programmers did + knowledge of the hardware platform. It even happened that the authors/ creators of a game lost all or part of the development material over the years.
The closer you get to the present games games (mostly the commercial ones) had their eye and ear candy improved. Companys nowadays rely on "license servers" and a client/server software architecture to offer more services, have a constant cash flow, fight piracy, etc. Now they can offer you bugfixes (which is reserved for financially successful games). Did they improve their production process? I can't say.
I work in a business environment and we have to write concepts and document source code a lot. We document how we employ 3rd party software. All in order to be able to understand what has been done and to be able to change the software years later. Everything gets documented and the documents get stored electronically. The documents are available in different versions (so you can see how things changed over time). There are backups for all this material. It's not always fun but it has to be done. Again I can't speak for the gaming industry and how far they have embraced industry practices by now.
But one thing is sure. Customers are still only given the product in binary form. As soon as a game is released, it's more or less finished. Changes and expansions can only be done up to a certain degree. The sourcecode is locked away and sometimes the company itself loses it over the years (including other development materials). Have fun with reverse engineering or start from scratch (which takes time).
Dunno what to expect from Devs today. The circumstances back then were not ideal. The circumstances today are not ideal. Hopefully the guys at beamdog can pull it off with the material the have access to.
The other long term alternative is to start from scratch as open source project (but maintain copyrights on the visual arts, sound/music and game content).
Don't be too harsh with today's devs. More often it's the guys in the suits who make the important decisions. And those guys in suits don't know better, since they are no experts. They are already too busy with administrative errands and company politics to really care for the product.
People need to express themselves, to state their opinions, especially negative ones. We all, inherently, strive to shift existence according to our vision of perfection or at least "rightness". It's one of the basest human behaviors along with survival, procreation and all that other stuff and we're all aware of it consciously or otherwise.
(behaviors basic or otherwise uncontrolled by intellect reduces one to mere animal instead of human) I think you are confusing needs with wants, none of what you describe is a "need" it is in the realm of want. There is never really a good excuse for throwing away Manners and Civility and only small minds will toss them out simply because it is easier to be rude.
There are, of course, degrees of practicality of acceptability of said behaviours, like with everything one can go too far. While it's certainly possible that the person in question "has no life", it's far from being a requirement. Just like his comment, yours too is merely venting frustration (which isn't something to be ashamed of as some would lead you to believe).
I agree my comment was thrown in at the end to emphasize a point...a plot device if you will
Customers have a right to demand changes in the product and businesses need to adapt to their market. It's the way of nature. Just like the fans you accuse, you are pretending that the change and demand for it were objectively bad yet yours is just another opinion.
Actually no, demand is the wrong word. Ask, yes, use their money and influence yes, show their desire in a legal civil manner, yewbetchya....but "Demand"? I think not. But then I may tend to hold the meaning of words a bit more stringently than some.
Did you know that ignorant, self-important morons resurrected Sherlock Holmes? Maybe he should've stayed dead after his confrontation with Moriarty, I don't know, but it happened.
Self-important morons also wrote letters to Paramount and brought back Star Trek thank the Q.
Technically I think it was greed...the desire for profit....the realization that people would pay for more of those venues......all the fans did was demonstrate there was a profit to be had semantics and im splitting hairs. ;-)
By the way, please anyone reading my comments...do not ascribe emotional content. Games and gaming are a significant portion of my life but I have perspective and objectivity and in the end, these things, the stuff in this forum are not worth "Emotional" investment for me. Even if I disagree with someone here...Ultimately I know it doesnt really matter..so my posts are just about opinion or trying to provide information....not to become emotionally involved in the discussion.
I may use words with emotional or psychological impact but it is merely to try and get a point across. No real harm, or disrespect is intended.
"Overhaul? They aren't much of a developer, they just make slightly enhanced versions of old games", was an observation. It's even in the developer's name. This doesn't mean that they are bad at what they do or that what they do isn't worth doing, but it means that I don't regard them in the same way that I do with developers who make their own games. If you feel insulted by that statement, I'm sorry that you do. If you feel I insulted someone else, I'd kindly ask you to let that someone respond instead of assuming that.
Sorry it really looked like an insult the way it was in context. The whole post looked pretty negative and depressing but you explained and No harm no foul I hope. Be that as it may, I made a point, and its all aired out
Hrm. Lots of thoughts on the brain. Some dev's do things that make the fan base angry. The net effect of this is a loss of credibility/trust in that developer. For instance, I will wait to buy DA3 for quite some time, period. If that makes me binary, a troller, a hater or whatnot, it's my position on the matter. I bought ME based on BioWare's previous works. Same with DA:O. Recent trends seem to imply that the business of the art is becoming more important to that particular studio than the art and I'd need to see a lot to convince me otherwise.
That doesn't mean I'm into flaming that company or filling the forums with nastiness. I vote with my consumer dollars. I doubt a big studio notices whether or not I buy a product, but they feel it when a lot of people do.
As for the insults, or placing opinions in words, I think that the former is inexcusable and the latter doesn't need to be brought up as if it were a major breach. Yes, there was some unintended slight toward Overhaul by somebody, but it seems too easy to jump on that and turn it into 'but you said...' interchange. It gets old, IMO.
So far I've heard a lot of people get offended at the idea of BG:EE on behalf of the modders. But if anything, it seems to me BG:EE has invited a number of modders into the project. So, while fans are upset at the abuse of the modding community, the modding community itself seems to be supporting the project. Maybe a few modders are upset...but I haven't heard their voices just yet.
Most of us are happy about BGEE, though i heard one @Vlad, who isn't. BGEE didn't just invite us into the project, but are as open as possible for a proprietary company. They do everything possible to create the best game in time and they listen to us. I see BGEE as the best chance for some new IE game. Those who don't care about a new game should go and play something different, but they have no right to get offended at the idea of BG:EE, as it won't take anything away from them.
@reedmilfam No! That doesnt make you anything but an experienced consumer doing EXACTLY what you should do. Personally thanks to GoG I no longer pre-order games I have such a tremendous backlog of old stuff I never played or havent played for years that I don't have that itch for something new that has to be scratched. DA3....wait till its been out for a while and the DLC is all taken care of. I didn't have any problems with Skyrim so Ill probably buy the next iteration when it comes out..... Same for any future Mass Effect product.
Hrm. Lots of thoughts on the brain. Some dev's do things that make the fan base angry. The net effect of this is a loss of credibility/trust in that developer. For instance, I will wait to buy DA3 for quite some time, period. If that makes me binary, a troller, a hater or whatnot, it's my position on the matter. I bought ME based on BioWare's previous works. Same with DA:O. Recent trends seem to imply that the business of the art is becoming more important to that particular studio than the art and I'd need to see a lot to convince me otherwise.
That doesn't mean I'm into flaming that company or filling the forums with nastiness. I vote with my consumer dollars. I doubt a big studio notices whether or not I buy a product, but they feel it when a lot of people do.
As for the insults, or placing opinions in words, I think that the former is inexcusable and the latter doesn't need to be brought up as if it were a major breach. Yes, there was some unintended slight toward Overhaul by somebody, but it seems too easy to jump on that and turn it into 'but you said...' interchange. It gets old, IMO.
I feel the same way about purchasing DA3, but (probably) for different reasons. I liked the combat in DA2, as I thought is was fast and furious. Also, I didn't mind the city setting, even though you might visit the same map 4 or 5 times.
What annoyed me about that game was the story wasn't really about the character! If anything you were a bystander that just happened to be nearby while things went awry. In the end, you really didn't even make a lasting mark on the world! After it was all said and done, you just sorta slinked away to the hills.
In the end, I was pretty unsatisfied with DA2, which has colored my perception of DA3.
@Avenger_teambg: Thanks, I was wondering about how all that worked.
And I of course agree that BG:EE is the best chance for a new IE game or a party-based isometric RPG. BG:EE takes nothing away, you're right, since the original game is still very much available!
It's funny, ironically, I just realized I'd never sent you a thank you. Ha ha. Sorry about that
Customers have a right to demand changes in the product and businesses need to adapt to their market. It's the way of nature. Just like the fans you accuse, you are pretending that the change and demand for it were objectively bad yet yours is just another opinion.
Actually no, demand is the wrong word. Ask, yes, use their money and influence yes, show their desire in a legal civil manner, yewbetchya....but "Demand"? I think not. But then I may tend to hold the meaning of words a bit more stringently than some.
@immagikman, you make interesting points which i find i typically disagree with, but you are wrong here. Law of economics is based off of supply and demand. A business is not a person, it is there to provide you a service, be it a place you go to buy food, the place that makes the food, whatever. I understand you're trying to be civil but let's face it, mankind may act civil but is not civil. And you can not say that so long as there is one war being waged on the face of planet earth by the hands of man/woman.
I have a demand for video games. I find a company that meets that need/desire/want. I use it as stress release. As an old roommate of mine used to say, he hops on his comp and blows shit up so he won't go out irl and blow shit up. To some, it is a very real need, as stress release. But we also have the right to demand certain thing from the companies we purchase from. You seem to think that corporations can/do and SHOULD have all the power. They offer and we should pony up with our wallets, but that's the wrong concept to have.
de·mand/diˈmand/ Noun: An insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right. Verb: Ask authoritatively or brusquely.
Our money as consumers gives up the right to the request. And money gives authority. If you're one voice in a million, no one will listen, but if you're 10k voices in a million, then a cult market may just spring up to meet the demand. Jean-luc was 100% correct in that he has the full right to demand whatever he wants from wherever he chooses to spend his money.
(behaviors basic or otherwise uncontrolled by intellect reduces one to mere animal instead of human) I think you are confusing needs with wants, none of what you describe is a "need" it is in the realm of want. There is never really a good excuse for throwing away Manners and Civility and only small minds will toss them out simply because it is easier to be rude.
I think you're just tossing up semantics to confuse the issue. "Need", "want", doesn't matter what you call it, it's there. Are you saying that the guy whose comment you found offensive is an animal? Is anyone who ever has an emotional response also an animal? Is someone who disagrees with you an animal? Are you for thinking thus? Let's examine the lack of civility in said post:
***Are you talking about Overhaul or developers in general? Some developers are worthy of praise, some are not. Overhaul? They aren't much of a developer, they just make slightly enhanced versions of old games. Modders do this sort of stuff for free. As for the price? if enough people are willing to pay this full price, I guess it's justified, but I won't pay it.***
No coarse language, no swear words, beginning and ending statements are pretty balanced. The "not much of a developer" claim is potentially offensive but, whether one likes it or not, is a valid opinion and not expressed in a way that I would say throws away civility. The tone of the post is pretty mellow in general. It is important to note that the user in question hasn't spammed that line of thought or persisted with it aggressively.
Actually no, demand is the wrong word. Ask, yes, use their money and influence yes, show their desire in a legal civil manner, yewbetchya....but "Demand"? I think not. But then I may tend to hold the meaning of words a bit more stringently than some.
Just semantics again but demanding is very much a right and it can also be done in a civilized manner. There's a reason why the expression is to "demand a refund" or why one "demands to speak to a manager" for example. In the end it's basic freedom of speech and it's up to individuals what tone they take. Not all "demands" are expressed via forums so a potential ToS doesn't necessarily apply.
To be honest I think you're overly sensitive about any sort of criticism (even mild) directed at the devs and I say this with the best of intentions. But, for better or worse, that too is your right. None of us are rational 100% of the time and even when we are rational subjective factors influence our rationales almost every time.
I'll just say that I believe in @TrentOster and his team. The whole mentality of him and his team is, according to me, the right one to approach games. They're doing their best, so no need to insult them. It's at times like these that people on these forums irk me for creating a bigger poohah than is necessary.
***Are you talking about Overhaul or developers in general? Some developers are worthy of praise, some are not. Overhaul? They aren't much of a developer, they just make slightly enhanced versions of old games. Modders do this sort of stuff for free. As for the price? if enough people are willing to pay this full price, I guess it's justified, but I won't pay it.***
No coarse language, no swear words, beginning and ending statements are pretty balanced. The "not much of a developer" claim is potentially offensive but, whether one likes it or not, is a valid opinion and not expressed in a way that I would say throws away civility. The tone of the post is pretty mellow in general. It is important to note that the user in question hasn't spammed that line of thought or persisted with it aggressively.
WTF...I agree with Jean-Luc here...Have you guys ANY idea how hard Trent's team is working on BG:EE??? How dare you even write such a comment. And you call yourselves fans? How ignorant and arrogant can you be. Goddammit, I daresay this is the first time a comment on this site has really made me angry.
Developer, by definition is someone that "develops" right? "Develop" in dictionaries means "to strengthen, to enlarge, to make it more complete, to help it grow". According to Trent Oster's tweets, we can pretty easily understand (that if you understand basic English of course and what "HARD CODE" means), they pretty much clubbed the Hard Code to death in many cases, making the game code easier to digest, therefore making it stronger. BY DEFINITION, they are developers, right?
So they strengthened it, they enlarged it as per new content added, they made it more complete by fixing unaddressed bugs (over 400 fixes according to the baldursgate.com site) and finally, they help it grow by selling a more fulfilled product to the crowds. It is THAT simple, right?
@immagikman, A business is not a person, it is there to provide you a service, be it a place you go to buy food, the place that makes the food, whatever. .
You are 100% wrong here, Businesses, Corporations are nothing more than people. Legal entities created to allow multiple people to act as one. As for your economic power...you have as much as you wield. If you spend $X and it costs $X+10,0000 to provide said product, good or service, your economic power is negligible. And is thus given appropriate weight when the company considers their marketing and planning.
Comments
I'm not sure if the enhanced edition has enough new content to be worth buying for me (still have the original), but I guess it's good for people who didn't get a chance to play Baldur's Gate before.
I didn't insult anyone but you just did and that's uncalled for.
As for insults yeah you did throw one out there, here it is:
" Overhaul? They aren't much of a developer, "
My comment was just as called for as yours was.....and in my opinion, they were both unnecessary.
@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud
Resent it all you want, but while the ending didn't blow me away it was perfectly fine. Attempting to act like the ending was objectively bad and demanding that Bioware change it is the behavior of spoiled children. I didn't like anything in the latter half of Jim Butcher's novel Turn Coat, but I didn't write him a letter about how he's a terrible person and writer who sold his soul to appease his publishers and the almighty dollar. Only ignorant, self-important morons do things like that.
People need to express themselves, to state their opinions, especially negative ones. We all, inherently, strive to shift existence according to our vision of perfection or at least "rightness". It's one of the basest human behaviours along with survival, procreation and all that other stuff and we're all aware of it consciously or otherwise.
There are, of course, degrees of practicality of acceptability of said behaviours, like with everything one can go too far. While it's certainly possible that the person in question "has no life", it's far from being a requirement. Just like his comment, yours too is merely venting frustration (which isn't something to be ashamed of as some would lead you to believe).
Customers have a right to demand changes in the product and businesses need to adapt to their market. It's the way of nature. Just like the fans you accuse, you are pretending that the change and demand for it were objectively bad yet yours is just another opinion.
Did you know that ignorant, self-important morons resurrected Sherlock Holmes? Maybe he should've stayed dead after his confrontation with Moriarty, I don't know, but it happened.
Self-important morons also wrote letters to Paramount and brought back Star Trek thank the Q.
If you feel insulted by that statement, I'm sorry that you do. If you feel I insulted someone else, I'd kindly ask you to let that someone respond instead of assuming that.
"@Leronis Are you talking about Overhaul or developers in general? Some developers are worthy of praise, some are not. Overhaul? They aren't much of a developer, they just make slightly enhanced versions of old games. Modders do this sort of stuff for free. As for the price? if enough people are willing to pay this full price, I guess it's justified, but I won't pay it."
IDK what opinion of mine that you are referencing. IDK much about Overhaul, except that they are remastering a game i love, and that some there have authored or modded BG. I will wait for enough user reviews on metacritic, and if BGEE delivers, i will buy it.
hmmmm... need some chuckles on a monday morning. This?:
"Ladies and gentlemen, This could be a cultural misunderstanding"
Or maybe, "If you want to conquer the world, yer gonna need lawyers, right? So we should litigate the DaK vs ACK question.
http://i.imgur.com/3qPYC.png
http://gifs.gifbin.com/062011/1308916432_aborted_jet_landing_on_carrier.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Q0r6LfjMYRE#!
Those clips might all be from http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/ this morning.
The first computer games I played were made by small teams or even a single person. People back then had hardly a need to document what they did. Were there bugfixes? Nada.
Over time the team sizes increased. Now you had programmers, visual artists, sound artists. Games looked better. The quality of the in-game music and in-game sound improved. Bugfixes were still rare. I dunno if the teams (at least the programmers) started to document what they did. Did they backup their development materials including the source code? Who knows.
Customers were given the "finished" product in binary form. If you wanted to do some bug fixes by yourself you had to be good at assembler and needed quite some time to understand what the programmers did + knowledge of the hardware platform. It even happened that the authors/ creators of a game lost all or part of the development material over the years.
The closer you get to the present games games (mostly the commercial ones) had their eye and ear candy improved. Companys nowadays rely on "license servers" and a client/server software architecture to offer more services, have a constant cash flow, fight piracy, etc.
Now they can offer you bugfixes (which is reserved for financially successful games). Did they improve their production process? I can't say.
I work in a business environment and we have to write concepts and document source code a lot. We document how we employ 3rd party software. All in order to be able to understand what has been done and to be able to change the software years later. Everything gets documented and the documents get stored electronically. The documents are available in different versions (so you can see how things changed over time). There are backups for all this material. It's not always fun but it has to be done. Again I can't speak for the gaming industry and how far they have embraced industry practices by now.
But one thing is sure. Customers are still only given the product in binary form. As soon as a game is released, it's more or less finished. Changes and expansions can only be done up to a certain degree. The sourcecode is locked away and sometimes the company itself loses it over the years (including other development materials). Have fun with reverse engineering or start from scratch (which takes time).
Dunno what to expect from Devs today. The circumstances back then were not ideal. The circumstances today are not ideal. Hopefully the guys at beamdog can pull it off with the material the have access to.
The other long term alternative is to start from scratch as open source project (but maintain copyrights on the visual arts, sound/music and game content).
Don't be too harsh with today's devs. More often it's the guys in the suits who make the important decisions. And those guys in suits don't know better, since they are no experts. They are already too busy with administrative errands and company politics to really care for the product.
Customers have a right to demand changes in the product and businesses need to adapt to their market. It's the way of nature. Just like the fans you accuse, you are pretending that the change and demand for it were objectively bad yet yours is just another opinion. Did you know that ignorant, self-important morons resurrected Sherlock Holmes? Maybe he should've stayed dead after his confrontation with Moriarty, I don't know, but it happened.
Self-important morons also wrote letters to Paramount and brought back Star Trek thank the Q.
I may use words with emotional or psychological impact but it is merely to try and get a point across. No real harm, or disrespect is intended.
That doesn't mean I'm into flaming that company or filling the forums with nastiness. I vote with my consumer dollars. I doubt a big studio notices whether or not I buy a product, but they feel it when a lot of people do.
As for the insults, or placing opinions in words, I think that the former is inexcusable and the latter doesn't need to be brought up as if it were a major breach. Yes, there was some unintended slight toward Overhaul by somebody, but it seems too easy to jump on that and turn it into 'but you said...' interchange. It gets old, IMO.
Those who don't care about a new game should go and play something different, but they have no right to get offended at the idea of BG:EE, as it won't take anything away from them.
What annoyed me about that game was the story wasn't really about the character! If anything you were a bystander that just happened to be nearby while things went awry. In the end, you really didn't even make a lasting mark on the world! After it was all said and done, you just sorta slinked away to the hills.
In the end, I was pretty unsatisfied with DA2, which has colored my perception of DA3.
And I of course agree that BG:EE is the best chance for a new IE game or a party-based isometric RPG. BG:EE takes nothing away, you're right, since the original game is still very much available!
It's funny, ironically, I just realized I'd never sent you a thank you. Ha ha. Sorry about that
@immagikman, you make interesting points which i find i typically disagree with, but you are wrong here. Law of economics is based off of supply and demand. A business is not a person, it is there to provide you a service, be it a place you go to buy food, the place that makes the food, whatever. I understand you're trying to be civil but let's face it, mankind may act civil but is not civil. And you can not say that so long as there is one war being waged on the face of planet earth by the hands of man/woman.
I have a demand for video games. I find a company that meets that need/desire/want. I use it as stress release. As an old roommate of mine used to say, he hops on his comp and blows shit up so he won't go out irl and blow shit up. To some, it is a very real need, as stress release. But we also have the right to demand certain thing from the companies we purchase from. You seem to think that corporations can/do and SHOULD have all the power. They offer and we should pony up with our wallets, but that's the wrong concept to have.
de·mand/diˈmand/
Noun:
An insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right.
Verb:
Ask authoritatively or brusquely.
Our money as consumers gives up the right to the request. And money gives authority. If you're one voice in a million, no one will listen, but if you're 10k voices in a million, then a cult market may just spring up to meet the demand. Jean-luc was 100% correct in that he has the full right to demand whatever he wants from wherever he chooses to spend his money.
***Are you talking about Overhaul or developers in general? Some developers are worthy of praise, some are not. Overhaul? They aren't much of a developer, they just make slightly enhanced versions of old games. Modders do this sort of stuff for free. As for the price? if enough people are willing to pay this full price, I guess it's justified, but I won't pay it.***
No coarse language, no swear words, beginning and ending statements are pretty balanced. The "not much of a developer" claim is potentially offensive but, whether one likes it or not, is a valid opinion and not expressed in a way that I would say throws away civility. The tone of the post is pretty mellow in general. It is important to note that the user in question hasn't spammed that line of thought or persisted with it aggressively.
Just semantics again but demanding is very much a right and it can also be done in a civilized manner. There's a reason why the expression is to "demand a refund" or why one "demands to speak to a manager" for example. In the end it's basic freedom of speech and it's up to individuals what tone they take. Not all "demands" are expressed via forums so a potential ToS doesn't necessarily apply.
To be honest I think you're overly sensitive about any sort of criticism (even mild) directed at the devs and I say this with the best of intentions. But, for better or worse, that too is your right. None of us are rational 100% of the time and even when we are rational subjective factors influence our rationales almost every time.
I'll just say that I believe in @TrentOster and his team. The whole mentality of him and his team is, according to me, the right one to approach games. They're doing their best, so no need to insult them. It's at times like these that people on these forums irk me for creating a bigger poohah than is necessary.
According to Trent Oster's tweets, we can pretty easily understand (that if you understand basic English of course and what "HARD CODE" means), they pretty much clubbed the Hard Code to death in many cases, making the game code easier to digest, therefore making it stronger. BY DEFINITION, they are developers, right?
So they strengthened it, they enlarged it as per new content added, they made it more complete by fixing unaddressed bugs (over 400 fixes according to the baldursgate.com site) and finally, they help it grow by selling a more fulfilled product to the crowds. It is THAT simple, right?
And is thus given appropriate weight when the company considers their marketing and planning.