No coarse language, no swear words, beginning and ending statements are pretty balanced. The "not much of a developer" claim is potentially offensive but, whether one likes it or not, is a valid opinion and not expressed in a way that I would say throws away civility. The tone of the post is pretty mellow in general. It is important to note that the user in question hasn't spammed that line of thought or persisted with it aggressively.
WTF...I agree with Jean-Luc here...Have you guys ANY idea how hard Trent's team is working on BG:EE??? How dare you even write such a comment. And you call yourselves fans? How ignorant and arrogant can you be. Goddammit, I daresay this is the first time a comment on this site has really made me angry.
just to be clear *I* did not issue the insult to Yrent and the team, that was the person I had been quoting. *I* have been defending Developers all along, mostly Trent and Overhaul. The way that whole section of quoting was created seemed to distort who was saying what.
Developer, by definition is someone that "develops" right? "Develop" in dictionaries means "to strengthen, to enlarge, to make it more complete, to help it grow". According to Trent Oster's tweets, we can pretty easily understand (that if you understand basic English of course and what "HARD CODE" means), they pretty much clubbed the Hard Code to death in many cases, making the game code easier to digest, therefore making it stronger. BY DEFINITION, they are developers, right?
So they strengthened it, they enlarged it as per new content added, they made it more complete by fixing unaddressed bugs (over 400 fixes according to the baldursgate.com site) and finally, they help it grow by selling a more fulfilled product to the crowds. It is THAT simple, right?
Which is why I took exception to someone commenting that "Overhaul? They aren't much of a developer".
that's like saying that the internet is people because it functions on people using it. People hide behind the internet and do things that are considered immoral and reprehensible all the time, the same as people hide behind corporations and do the same.
Corporations are not people despite the supreme court ruling.
that's like saying that the internet is people because it functions on people using it. People hide behind the internet and do things that are considered immoral and reprehensible all the time, the same as people hide behind corporations and do the same.
Corporations are not people despite the supreme court ruling.
Now you are being simplistic, you might as well say the sky isnt blue while you are there. Tilt at your windmill Don Quixote Out of curiosity do you actually KNOW what a corporation is? Some hints: it isnt buildings, it isnt merchandise, it isnt a brand and it isnt a product.
mmmk, will humor you. A corporation is a group of people that come together under one idea or ideal and work together for the greater good of the idea/ideal. In a manner of speaking, the borg. But a corporation is based around their creed/goal.
Let me give you my understanding of this. I have an idea. It is an idea that is very important to me, and it changes who i am. To the point that my life now revolves around this idea and the application of it. I share this idea with others, and they start to change to adapt to it as well. The idea isn't alive, it's not a person, it's merely a part of a person. A corporation is the same, it's a vision and people come together to support that vision, the ideal, etc. But the corporation is not alive, it does not think, it does feel, only the people inside it.
So, there's my answer. Please tell me how a corporation is both human and alive. As to be human, you must be alive (science) or alive at one point, which means you must be born, must reproduce, must respond to stimuli, and must be concious on some basic level. The last one is the one that doesn't fit, and thus why i say not a person; i.e. human, not alive.
You view Corporations as static and monolithic, they aren't. They grow and change, people come and go. Corporations are people with people making decisions. A Corporation is a "Legal fiction" to represent a group of people. Corporations are...people. Corporations dont pay taxes or vote, people pay taxes and vote, corporations don't earn money, the people earn the money, the corporation is what brings them together......so yeah CORPORATION is not People, a Corporation is made of people...its soylent green, Corporations dont do bad things PEOPLE do bad things. So my initial assessment that Corporations are People was not the full sentence Corporations are people working together.
The GIFT describes why people on the internet tend to be so childish and petty. Anonymity+ the internet= people acting like assholes because they are interacting with, what they see as disembodied voices. People who are not "real" because they can't be seen. And because they are not "real" people, the typers don't feel the need to treat them like they are real. Especially in places where they know they have an audience...
Sadly, that's true for many people... I just support Overhaul in their legendary goal, that's all... They are pretty much one of the only honest developers out there >.<
Overhaul : The price for BGEE is $19! A-hole gamer : Waaat, overpriced! I better spend 80 dollars for the new Call of Duty, with its 2 hours long campaign!
Rrrrright >.>
Disclaimer - I have nothing against CoD fans... I have EVERYTHING against CoD. Blame the game, not the gamer!
I can buy Batman Arkham Asylum for $10 on steam. It's a GREAT game. So, not every game on sale is Call of Duty and costs $60.
I think BGEE is overpriced yes, but I bought anyway. I would pay $40 for a true remake, with better graphics.
The GIFT describes why people on the internet tend to be so childish and petty. Anonymity+ the internet= people acting like assholes because they are interacting with, what they see as disembodied voices. People who are not "real" because they can't be seen. And because they are not "real" people, the typers don't feel the need to treat them like they are real. Especially in places where they know they have an audience...
The GIFT describes why people on the internet tend to be so childish and petty. Anonymity+ the internet= people acting like assholes because they are interacting with, what they see as disembodied voices. People who are not "real" because they can't be seen. And because they are not "real" people, the typers don't feel the need to treat them like they are real. Especially in places where they know they have an audience...
I've said it before and I'll say it again: gamers are the biggest pack of self-entitled whiners on the face of this planet. Devs can literally never win. No matter what they do, some bloated section of their fanbase will hate any given decision, and they will roar it from the mountaintops to try and make themselves appear as anything besides a vocal minority. Take that whole ME3 ending fiasco. I've never seen a more disgusting display of bandwagon, mob mentality in all my years.
Portal 2 had almost 0 negative feedback from players. Valve made a great, cheap, free dlc game.
valve is one of the companies i actively support despite that i'm pure rubbish at fps style games. They work had and give you a finished project, they deliver what their fans crave/desire/demand/ask for, and i've never seen them trying to gouge players.
The GIFT describes why people on the internet tend to be so childish and petty. Anonymity+ the internet= people acting like assholes because they are interacting with, what they see as disembodied voices. People who are not "real" because they can't be seen. And because they are not "real" people, the typers don't feel the need to treat them like they are real. Especially in places where they know they have an audience...
I've said it before and I'll say it again: gamers are the biggest pack of self-entitled whiners on the face of this planet. Devs can literally never win. No matter what they do, some bloated section of their fanbase will hate any given decision, and they will roar it from the mountaintops to try and make themselves appear as anything besides a vocal minority. Take that whole ME3 ending fiasco. I've never seen a more disgusting display of bandwagon, mob mentality in all my years.
Portal 2 had almost 0 negative feedback from players. Valve made a great, cheap, free dlc game.
To be fair, it isn't just gamers its consumers in general....I was part of the roll out of the first Digital Cell service in the USA (many moons ago) Being a Unix Engineer I didnt deal with the public...until one night we spent an entire night rolling out upgraded servers to replace the dated startup equipment..and it involved long periods of twiddling my thumbs..so I sat in with the call center people to pass the time (hey lots of single young girls) Listening to some of these "Customers" got to tell you I lost a LOT of respect for the general populace and their mental/emotional stability.
"@Leronis Are you talking about Overhaul or developers in general? Some developers are worthy of praise, some are not. Overhaul? They aren't much of a developer, they just make slightly enhanced versions of old games. Modders do this sort of stuff for free. As for the price? if enough people are willing to pay this full price, I guess it's justified, but I won't pay it."
IDK what opinion of mine that you are referencing. IDK much about Overhaul, except that they are remastering a game i love, and that some there have authored or modded BG. I will wait for enough user reviews on metacritic, and if BGEE delivers, i will buy it.
hmmmm... need some chuckles on a monday morning. This?:
The act of incorporating creates a new legal person. The business is thereafter responsible for it's own debts and other legal obligations such as court judgement or administrative penalties. Without this "limited liability" shield provided to stockholders (owners) and employees, capitalism would grind to a halt. Corporations really are people too, except for some limitations on their rights. Business Law 101. Perhaps because of an excess of anthropomorphic enthusiasm, this "corporations are people too" stuff really upsets some folks. But without corporate person-hood there would be no investment, jobs, products on the shelves, or even retailers with shelves.
Demand has a common business, marketing, or economics definition: how much of a product or service that gets consumed at a particular price point. No tantrums implied in this meaning.
GIFT doesn't completely explain how gamers treat devs. Studios make and distribute crappy movies, publishers and authors churn out bad books, musicians have dubstep, Nickelback, and Beiber..... and no one rages overmuch. Lampoon and satirize maybe, but no table pounding. Don't like, don't buy. In a free market, no one is forced to buy anything. Consumption is always a free will choice.
I don't see the issue here. People act like they are being abused or something. This whole nonsense is on like every gaming forum on the internet and it's annoying. Nobody forces you to buy anything. If you don't like it, don't buy the damn game. Whiners. Wah wah wah day 1 DLC wah wah wah always online wah wah wah DRM wah wah wah.
Some people here don't seem to understand that the relationship between gamers and developers is a consumer/producer relationship.
Games are a consumer product, and if you are making a consumer product, then it is YOUR JOB to make the consumer WANT your product. If the consumer rejects your product and complains about it, the problem isn't with them, the problem is with YOU! If a restaurant manager finds that customers are routinely complaining about the food (and the fact that you're charging them $2 for every knife and fork, because "CUTLERY IS HANDLED BY AN ENTIRELY SEPARATE TEAM!"), then his restaurant won't stay in business for long if his attitude towards the customers' complaints is, "Well, you're just a bunch of spoiled, entitled whiners who will never be satisfied with anything!"
It's not "whining," it's called being a discerning consumer. The word "entitled" should not even be mentioned when it comes to consumer products. This isn't graduate level economics. This isn't even first year economics. This is "kid running a lemonade stand" economics. But apparently the gaming industry (and their sycophantic apologists) think they're exempt from all this; they think we should just accept everything they do without complaints. As I like to say, if you make excuses for rubbish, you will continue to GET rubbish.
Honestly, the gamers are the biggest a-holes. They pirate games like there's no end and then they bitch and moan that no ones making any good games for PC anymore, or that they have DLC's, or DRM.
Right, its never too late to start blaming piracy. Lets see what some guy named Gabe Newell has to say about it.
In general, we think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem. For example, if a pirate offers a product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from the convenience of your personal computer, and the legal provider says the product is region-locked, will come to your country 3 months after the US release, and can only be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the pirate’s service is more valuable. Most DRM solutions diminish the value of the product by either directly restricting a customers use or by creating uncertainty.
Our goal is to create greater service value than pirates, and this has been successful enough for us that piracy is basically a non-issue for our company. For example, prior to entering the Russian market, we were told that Russia was a waste of time because everyone would pirate our products. Russia is now about to become our largest market in Europe.
Actually Corporations do pay taxes. I'm doing them right now
Ahh but Corporations don't really PAY taxes...the customers pay them...the Corp just filters the money.... If the taxes increase does the CEO take a pay cut? NO. The customer pays more....tax increases on busineses is counter productive to economic growth.
@Redcoat I don't think you understand the concept behind corporation or business. There is ONLY one mandate and that is to make money, pretty much everything else is secondary and subservient to that end. And catering to a relatively small vocal group of negativity isn't going to make you a profit, if anything it is going to cost you money to satisfy them and the reality is...you cannot CANNOT make everyone happy.
> And catering to a relatively small vocal group of negativity isn't going to make you a profit, if anything it is going to cost you money to satisfy them and the reality is...you cannot CANNOT make everyone happy.
Which is why Valve is worth billions and others are just complaining. How about they try doing it right for a change. And even people who hate Steam here criticize it for many things, but lack of features or customer support is not one of them. What chances would have Beamdog in .. err Russia? None, zero, zilch. They would pirate it anyway, market too small, too low salaries blah blah blah. The result is - zero sales, so who wins?
Comments
that's like saying that the internet is people because it functions on people using it. People hide behind the internet and do things that are considered immoral and reprehensible all the time, the same as people hide behind corporations and do the same.
Corporations are not people despite the supreme court ruling.
Let me give you my understanding of this. I have an idea. It is an idea that is very important to me, and it changes who i am. To the point that my life now revolves around this idea and the application of it. I share this idea with others, and they start to change to adapt to it as well. The idea isn't alive, it's not a person, it's merely a part of a person. A corporation is the same, it's a vision and people come together to support that vision, the ideal, etc. But the corporation is not alive, it does not think, it does feel, only the people inside it.
So, there's my answer. Please tell me how a corporation is both human and alive. As to be human, you must be alive (science) or alive at one point, which means you must be born, must reproduce, must respond to stimuli, and must be concious on some basic level. The last one is the one that doesn't fit, and thus why i say not a person; i.e. human, not alive.
@ladyrhian i don't quite get your gift comment, just the best way i could think to describe it at the time.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19
I think BGEE is overpriced yes, but I bought anyway. I would pay $40 for a true remake, with better graphics.
Hoping for a true Planescape: Torment remake.
lol, ty for clarifying @ladyrhian
valve is one of the companies i actively support despite that i'm pure rubbish at fps style games. They work had and give you a finished project, they deliver what their fans crave/desire/demand/ask for, and i've never seen them trying to gouge players.
The act of incorporating creates a new legal person. The business is thereafter responsible for it's own debts and other legal obligations such as court judgement or administrative penalties. Without this "limited liability" shield provided to stockholders (owners) and employees, capitalism would grind to a halt. Corporations really are people too, except for some limitations on their rights. Business Law 101.
Perhaps because of an excess of anthropomorphic enthusiasm, this "corporations are people too" stuff really upsets some folks. But without corporate person-hood there would be no investment, jobs, products on the shelves, or even retailers with shelves.
Demand has a common business, marketing, or economics definition: how much of a product or service that gets consumed at a particular price point. No tantrums implied in this meaning.
GIFT doesn't completely explain how gamers treat devs. Studios make and distribute crappy movies, publishers and authors churn out bad books, musicians have dubstep, Nickelback, and Beiber..... and no one rages overmuch. Lampoon and satirize maybe, but no table pounding. Don't like, don't buy. In a free market, no one is forced to buy anything. Consumption is always a free will choice.
Games are a consumer product, and if you are making a consumer product, then it is YOUR JOB to make the consumer WANT your product. If the consumer rejects your product and complains about it, the problem isn't with them, the problem is with YOU! If a restaurant manager finds that customers are routinely complaining about the food (and the fact that you're charging them $2 for every knife and fork, because "CUTLERY IS HANDLED BY AN ENTIRELY SEPARATE TEAM!"), then his restaurant won't stay in business for long if his attitude towards the customers' complaints is, "Well, you're just a bunch of spoiled, entitled whiners who will never be satisfied with anything!"
It's not "whining," it's called being a discerning consumer. The word "entitled" should not even be mentioned when it comes to consumer products. This isn't graduate level economics. This isn't even first year economics. This is "kid running a lemonade stand" economics. But apparently the gaming industry (and their sycophantic apologists) think they're exempt from all this; they think we should just accept everything they do without complaints. As I like to say, if you make excuses for rubbish, you will continue to GET rubbish.
If the taxes increase does the CEO take a pay cut? NO. The customer pays more....tax increases on busineses is counter productive to economic growth.
Which is why Valve is worth billions and others are just complaining. How about they try doing it right for a change. And even people who hate Steam here criticize it for many things, but lack of features or customer support is not one of them. What chances would have Beamdog in .. err Russia? None, zero, zilch. They would pirate it anyway, market too small, too low salaries blah blah blah. The result is - zero sales, so who wins?
Why can't I buy a game on Steam and then copy it to a computer without the Steam client? Or download a installer I can store in a local disk?
At least with Beamdog I won't HAVE to have their client installed. And the installer will be provided.