Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Planescape: Torment: Enhanced Edition has been released! Visit www.planescape.com to purchase and check for details. Planescape: Torment: Enhanced Edition Official Soundtrack is available.
Soundtracks for BG:EE, SoD, BG2:EE, IWD:EE are now available in the Beamdog store.
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Class/Kit Attempt: Warlock

kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 792
edited May 15 in IWD:EE Mods
I have tried to recreate the Warlock class from 3.5. The primary goal of this was to discover a way to create modular spells, being able to choose an essence and shape for the eldritch blast in a convenient manner for the user. Cutting down the now 100+ different possible combinations to just 1 spell per essence and 1 spell per shape for the user to deal with.
Requires: BGEE: v2.1+ / SOD: v2.1+ / BG2EE: v2.1+ / IWDEE: v1.4
Implementation Specifics:

v1.4:
- Cleric Kit
- Priest spells are removed each level on a 1-second delay. Pregenerated Characters will have to remove them with a one-time ability in their special abilities menu. It should remove mod-added spells added to Spells.IDS.
- One Invocation can be switched out at each level a new invocation is not learned, up through level 21.
- A "Refresh" ability will always be in the last slot of the spell-select menu, to memorize any newly learned Invocations, and just in case anything else manages to drain them, like excessive level draining.
- Infuse Item ability omitted.
v2.1:
- Shaman Kit
- Planar Sphere Stronghold (SoA).
- Shamans are altered to use a similar dialogue-based spell selection. You should be able to uninstall the mod without breaking a shaman character, provided you have selected all your spells for the current level. AddSpell("SPSHMKN") to get the dialogue ability on pre-existing shamans.
- One Invocation(Warlock) or Spell(Shaman) can be switched out at each new level.
- All Invocations may be cast at-will, unlimited times per day.
- Must rest before being able to cast newly acquired spells/invocations.
- Detect magic ability run through Shaman Dance Modal.(placeholder)
- Detect Illusions at same as Shaman.(placeholder)
- Infuse Item ability pending.
Common:
- Can cast but not learn from Scrolls.
- Can equip any armor, but can only cast Invocations in "Light" armor.
- Can cast their invocations while equipped with a buckler or shields, however shields will slow down their spellcasting, larger the shield, slower they cast.
- Can become proficient in a variety of weapons, specifically excluded from heavy, two-handed, or exotic weapons(Two-handed Sword, Bastard Sword, Katana, Halberd, Flail/Morning-star, and Longbow), though they can still equip these weapons. Can only take Single Weapon Style Proficiency.
- Blast damage starts at 1d6, and increases another 1d6 at level 3, 5, 8, 11, 14, 18, 22, 26, and 30, with either a to-hit requirement or allowing a save vs. spell/breath for half damage(evasion also considered).
- Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Blow(a melee variant), and Eldritch Chain all gain +2 Thac0 for each Essence known, to compensate for true touch-attack accuracy not being possible, as well as a +3 bonus to offset non-proficiency.
- Eldritch Claw and Glaive strike as a +0 Magical Weapon at level 1, gaining a +1 Enchantment bonus(Thac0 only) at level 3, 6 ,9, 12, and 15. Eldritch Touch attacks strike as +6 magical weapons.
- The default Eldritch Blast damage type is currently "magic", due to technical difficulties.
- Invocations are chosen and replaced through an invisible-creature Dialogue, with complete descriptions for each invocation available for browsing at any time.
- Damage Reduction implemented as resistance to Physical Damage types (Crushing, Piercing, Slashing, Missile), ranging from 10%(L3) to 34%(L30).
- Energy Resistance implemented similarly, still doesn't apply until level 10, but it increases every level instead of
every 10 levels. Starts at 10%(L10), up to 30%(L30).
- Fiendish Resilience is at-will and permanent, but dispellable. It provides a constitution boost, using the
regeneration of high Constitution values to represent its effects, so the amount healed is reduced to about 10% of the original short-duration ability. Starts at 20Con(L8), up to 25Con(L18).
- 24 hour duration invocations were made permanent, dispellable, on/off toggles.

Invocations, list + short descriptions:
- Shapes -

Start: Eldritch Blast: Ranged touch attack.
Start: Eldritch Blow: Melee touch attack.
Least: Eldritch Claw: Create a magical blade, 1d3 slashing, 2 APR, minor Eldritch Blast when it strikes. You are considered Specialized with the claw.
Least: Hideous Blow -> Eldritch Weapon: Delivers the Eldritch Blast through your equipped weapon, melee or ranged. Will dispel other Eldritch attack abilities.
Least: Eldritch Burst: Very short and small AoE, save vs. spell for half. Will hit yourself if the target is too close(unarmed/dagger range).
Lesser: Eldritch Glaive: Create a magical halberd, 1d10 slashing, 1 APR, minor Eldritch Blast when it strikes. You are considered Specialized with the claw.
Lesser: Eldritch Chain: Party friendly Chain-lightning effect for the Eldritch Blast. +1 target per 5 levels.
Lesser: Eldritch Ward: Protective Ward, +AC, Elemental Resistance, or Immunities depending on Blast Essence. Will end if any other Blast shape is used.
Greater: Eldritch Cone: Indiscriminate Cone shape for the Eldritch Blast.
Greater: Eldritch Line: Bolt that bounces off walls and harmfully passes through creatures.
Greater: Wall of Perilous Flames -> Wall of Eldritch Flames: Made this a blast shape by turning the "half supernatural" part of this invocation to be tied to your current Blast Essence, but the total damage is the same as the original (2d6 + level per round).
Dark: Eldritch Doom: Party Friendly, self-target "fireball" effect.
Dark: Eldritch Embrace: Every successful attack made by or against the warlock triggers a minor Eldritch Blast when striking/struck.

- Essences -

Start: Eldritch Blast: Nothing but damage.
Least: Frightful Blast: Save vs. Spell or Panic (1 Round). 6+HD immune. Turn Undead.
Least: Beshadowed Blast: Save vs. Spell or Blind (1 Round).
Least: Rupturing Blast: Save vs. Death or Knockdown. No damage. Ignores Magic Resistance. Repeated use has only 25% success.
Lesser: Permeating Blast: Magic damage, single target blasts have small AoE effect, AoE blasts are party friendly and offer no save for half damage.
Lesser: Hellrime Blast: Cold+Piercing damage, Save vs. Spell or -4 AC and Thac0(4 Rounds). 1 point of Cold damage, rest is piercing, to avoid item-destruction deaths.
Lesser: Brimstone Blast: Fire damage, Save vs Spell or 2d6 fire damage per round (1+1 round per 5 levels).
Greater: Bewitching Blast: Save vs. Spell or Confused (1 Round).
Greater: Noxious Blast: Disease(Poison) damage, Save vs. Spell or Nauseated(Disease:Slow)(4 Rounds).
Greater: Vitriolic Blast: Acid damage, extra 2d6 acid damage per round (1+1 round per 5 levels) Save vs. Death for half. Ignores Magic Resistance.
Dark: Binding Blast: Electrical damage, Save vs. Spell or Stun (1 Round).
Dark: Penetrating Blast: If resisted, targets Magic Resistance is lowered by 2% per Blast Die.
Dark: Utterdark Blast: Negative Energy(Poison) damage, Save vs. Spell or 2 levels drained. Heals undead. Poison damage used since everything necessary should have immunity to it.

- Least -

Entropic Warding: 40% miss chance for all missile attacks, also has a chance to stop Acid and Flame arrow spells, and Magic Stone spell.
Spiderstride: Increased movement speed and immunity to the Entangle, Grease, and Web spells.
See the Unseen: Permanent Infravision. Cure Blindness, Dispel Invisibility and low-level illusions each time it is cast. Non interruptive instant cast.
Baleful Utterance: Knock
Summon Swarm: Deals 1 damage per round to target creature and each creature within its melee range.
Earthen Grasp: Animates the ground to grapple the targeted creature for 2 rounds.
One's Own Luck: Improves a single save, based on level. +1(L1), up to +5(L9).
Leaps and Bounds: Evasion ability and immunity to Knockback.(Updates existing BG2EE spells to allow evasion, won't work against spells installed afterwards if they aren't coded for it)
Darkness: Anyone in the area is functionally blind and invisible.
Soulreaving Aura: Aura absorbs the energy of any creature slain by the Warlocks Invocations, granting caster 1 Temporary HP for 1 Turn.

- Lesser -

Charm: Same as spell, except usable once per creature per 24hrs.
The Dead Walk: Animate Dead Spell(BG version). The Undead constantly degrade, losing Max HP over time for each one currently summoned.
Flee the Scene: 1 Round Mislead + Teleport.
Stony Grasp: Animates the ground to grapple the targeted creature for 1 round per level, up to 1 turn.
Voracious Dispelling: I have tried to get this to function as close to the original as possible, however damage is a
constant 1d4 per source instead of cumulative spell-level.
Walk Unseen: Invisibility.
Fell Flight: Spiderstride + Immunity to Hold, Sleep, and Unconsciousness.
Battlecaster: Allows casting in all Chain and Splint mail armors.
Hungry Darkness: Anyone in the area is functionally blind and invisible. Swarm of Bats attacks a random creature in the darkness every round for 2d6 piercing damage.
Disembodied Hand: Detach your hand to act independently. Hand may attack using an Eldritch Blow and Hide in Shadow/Move Silently, but caster cannot attack and suffers casting speed penalty. Can be upgraded to use Eldritch Claws.
Weighty Utterance: Weighs target down, immobilizing and crushing it for 1d6 damage per 2 levels. Knocks winged-flyers unconscious(1 round).
Sudden Swarm: A small, poisonous spider bursts from the corpse of any creature slain by the Warlocks Invocations, spider is allied but not controllable.
Spidershape: Polymorph self into a small spider.

- Greater -

Chilling Tentacles: Attacks up to 4 different creatures within its area for 1d6+4 crushing damage each round, attempting to grapple them. Large Creatures immune to the grappling. 2d6 cold damage per round.(4 Rounds).
Devour Magic: Same as Voracious, a constant 5 temp. HP per source instead of cumulative spell level.
Tenacious Plague: Similar to Insect Plague spell, except 2d6 magic damage per round. (3 Rounds).
Caustic Mire: Grease + 6 acid damage per round. -25% fire resist to creatures. (3 Rounds).
Painful Slumber: Permanent Sleep + 10% HP damage on-hit-wake.
Nightmares Made Real: Self-centered area of Illusions(Blindness and Invisibility to all(no save)), Enemies must Save vs Spell or 1d6 damage and entangle each round. (3 Rounds).
Demonic Grace: Fell Flight + Immunity to Paralysis and Stun.
Enervating Shadow: Partial Invisibility, shadows lash out at any striking you, draining living creatures of strength.
Empowered Hand: Detach your hand to act independently. Hand may attack using an Eldritch Blast and Hide in Shadow/Move Silently, but caster cannot attack and suffers casting speed penalty. Can be upgraded to use Eldritch Chain, Flee the Scene, and Walk Unseen.
Devil's Whispers: Charm non-hostile creatures if they fail a save vs. spell, creatures do not become hostile afterwards, but do become hostile if they succeed their save.
Demonic Toughness: Gain temporary HP = Caster level, last 8 hours or until damage is taken. Cannot be used in combat, cannot be re-freshed while active.
Hellspawned Grace: Polymorph self into a hellcat.

- Dark -

Dark Discorporation: Polymorph self into swarm of bats. Swarm immunities/ vulnerabilities, auto-hit attack all enemies within your swarm for 4d6 nonlethal damage.
Retributive Invisibility: Improved Invisibility, 4d6 damage and stun to surrounding creatures if dispelled. Save vs.spell for half and avoid stun.
Word of Changing: Power Word, Polymorph (60HP). Polymorph for one round or permanent (Save vs. polymorph). Feeblemind or Panic for one round (Save vs. Spell).
Dark Foresight: Base AC:0, +4 Thac0, Save vs. Spell and Breath, Immunity to Backstab/Sneak Attack, and Time Stop. Prepare 1 Least, Lesser, or Greater Invocation in a Contingency. Must be re-cast twice to renew the contingency(once to remove, and again to reapply).
Path of Shadow: Shadow Walk with nearby allies(1 Round). Restores 5% HP.
Caster's Lament: Break Enchantment, Transmutation, and Curse effects on targeted creature.
Perilous Veil: Energy forms around all creatures in range to conceal their identities from enemies. Enemies failing a save vs. spell become confused, those that succeed the save are attacked by the energy concealing them for 5d6 damage. Mindless creatures automatically take the damage.

Invocations with a duration of "Permanent/Dispellable", function as a on/off toggle(if for whatever reason you want to remove them yourself). All Blast Essences function this way as well, but are also automatically deactivated when you activate another one. Eldritch Wards function similarly, except that Wards for different essences will switch out instead of deactivating.
Eldritch Essences may be switched out instantly without disrupting spellcasting. Other abilities that should be always "on" but cannot due to engine limitations, such as see invisibility(See the Unseen) or their detect magic ability, can also be cast instantly without disrupting or interfering with spellcasting as often as desired.

HLA'S:

- Lord of All Essences: Apply 2 blast essences to a single Eldritch attack, each at half-strength.
- Blast Focusing (Secondary Blast Essence): Primary Blast effects gains a -6 save penalty. Frightful blast has no level cap. Requires Lord of All Essences.
- Hellfire Blast (Secondary Blast Essence): Deals maximum damage for each blast die. Requires Lord of All Essences.
- Eldritch Implosion (Blast Shape): Collapse creatures into an implosion, dealing damage every 2 seconds for 1 round. Damage dealt: 1d6+1/level. 4 Round Cooldown. Requires Lord of All Essences.
- Commander of All Essences: Summon a magical creature based on your blast essence for 1 turn, the Party may only have one such creature alive at a time:

Eldritch - Gauth
Frightful - Nishruu Beshadowed - Dust Elemental Rupturing - Flying Blade
Permeating - Djinni Hellrime - Ice Elemental Brimstone - Fire Elemental
Bewitching - Umber Hulk Noxious - Mummy Vitriolic - Mustard Jelly
Binding - Lightning(Air) Elemental Penetrating - Wisp Utterdark - Vampire
- Verminlord: Insects, Beetles, Ankhegs, Carrion Crawlers, and Spiders now see you as their master, and will not attack or distract you, even when conjured by others. If known, the Charm invocation will now affect vermin as well, permanently with no save. Requires Tenacious Plague.
- Dark Transient: Activates your Flee the Scene Invocation with improved and/or altered effects:
Unlimited range teleport, normal range party-wide teleport, or unlimited range party wide teleport to your location. Requires Flee the Scene.
- Energy Resistance(Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire): May take those not chosen at level 10.
- Alchemy: Same as rogue HLA.
- Scribe Scroll: Same as rogue HLA.
- Craft Wand: Similar to Scribe scroll, low- and mid-level wands, 10 charges.
- Battlecaster: Same as the Lesser Invocation. Can be taken without or to replace the lesser invocation, allowing another to be chosen.
- Armored Caster: Allows casting in all armor. Requires Battlecaster.
- Eldritch Sculptor: Eldritch Blast and Blow improved to 2 APR.
- Claw Mastery: Grandmaster Proficiency for Eldritch Claws and Two-Weapon Style.
- Glaive Mastery: Grandmaster Proficiency for Edlritch Glaive and Two-Handed Style.
- Maximize Chain: Upgrade Eldritch Chain to hit all secondary targets at full strength, instead of half strength.
- Extend Chain: Upgrade Eldritch Chain to hit one additional secondary target. Can be taken twice.
- Extra Invocation: One extra invocation of any tier.

Optional: Charisma and Intelligence requirements to learn invocations:
- 10CHA: Least Invocations, 10INT: 1 invocation per tier
- 12CHA: Lesser Invocations, 12INT: 2 invocations per tier
- 14CHA: Greater Invocations, 14INT: 3 invocations per tier
- 16CHA: Dark Invocations

There are 2 Installers:
WARLOCK - Main kit mod
WARLOCK_UPDATE_ADDITIONS - If other mods are installed after the Main kit, this can be installed last to update items, spells, and the Main kit as necessary for any added content - removing added priest spells from the Warlock, adding checks for evasion, battlecaster, dispelling, spell immunities, and blast shape removal/cleanup.
Post edited by kjeron on
elminsterJuliusBorisovmegas_archonSCARY_WIZARDCrevsDaaklolienGodsemiticgodGoturalUnpersonGrammarsalad
«1345678

Comments

  • kensaikensai Member Posts: 212
    This class will be inbalanced in dnd2.
    Need more restrictions and disadvantages IMHO
    JuliusBorisovGamingFreakCrevsDaaklolien
  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639
    Yeah I actually agree. Limit blasts per day or something. Not that I hate Warlocks. Warlocks were tremendously fun in NWN2, especially when you literally could go "pew-pew!" all day. And your only limit was being evil or chaotic neutral, if I recall.
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 792
    I have added a 3rd component to test some balance changes, right now it only does 2 things:
    - Reduces blast damage to increase every 3rd level instead of every other level.
    - Reduces physical resistance from 10-34% down to 6-20%.

    I have also found and hopefully fixed a few bugs:
    - Utterdark blast in its entirety, somehow I had unfinished files for BGEE in the RAR.
    - Magic Weapons created from spell scrolls now dispel Blast Weapons, but not Eldritch Ward.

    Path of Shadow now has a proper range, healing reduced to 5%.
  • terror13terror13 Member Posts: 7
    edited February 2015
    aw only IWD lol wanna use it in bg1-2

    Also cmon lol don't start nerfing it its awesome and warlocks are MENT to be good, just keep the healing 10% huh.

    can you tell me the spell id btw so when when i get IWD and use this i can edit 10% for myself.

    Btw guys its not got all the mage spells, just the stuff listed and thats fully normal table top and like 90% of the stuff in nwn2 and it wasn't op, its fine.

    Warlocks are ment to be the most powerful of magic users by lore, they wern't even affected by the spell plague(death of mystra goddess of magic) like ALL other magic users were, go look it up.
  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 736
    edited February 2015
    The Infinity engine games are inherently balanced around 2e balance. Hence, direct imports of 3e stuff into the IE games typically results in absurdly over-powered kits.

    Classes and kits in 2e are balanced on a "advantage/disadvantage" scale. Is what you get worth what you sacrifice should be (but usually isn't) a question that players will have to think about. (A lot of the vanilla kits similarly miss this idea of a meaningful trade-off.)

    A limited spell list is not a drawback when you have unlimited casts of a variety of things, including spammable magic damage (Eldritch Blast), party wide support (Path of Shadow), Time Stop + Contingency + Prot from Evil x2 (Dark Foresight), spell removal (Voracious Dispelling) and more.

    Lore is similarly not an excuse for being imbalanced nor is an alignment restriction.

    I think that if you pared down Warlock a lot, maybe make Eldritch Blast spammable (deals d6 magic damage, 30 feet range) maybe reduced spells per day it could be a really interesting archetype. (I have an in-development Warlock in the works for Tome and Blood so this is something I've thought about a lot.)

    (This comes off as more harsh than I intended; I think this is a good mod with a lot of promise. I'm just not sure if it's at the point where it's sufficiently balanced.)
  • terror13terror13 Member Posts: 7
    well if u read all thats up there, its really only got basic single target spells, one strong aoe and a few unspectacular buffs.

    Its got some good stuff sure, but warlocks are balanced they lack variety, there is no alacity or time stop and allt he crazy 9th and 10th level mage spells, no mislead + all the spell protections, stoneskin and mirror images all combine for that crazy invincible mage mode or the contingencies to make sure it all comes back up.

    Aint no horrid wilting, or disentegrate, finger of death, no simulacrum, limited wish, wish, believe me I played a warrior/mage solo on max difficulty on bg2 and all I had to do was time stop, whirlwind strike (10attacks a round) with my vorpal axe +5 and i could literally overkill 3 dragons by 3x there health and that was just 1 spell combine with auto attack, not even counting all the other shit.

    Tbh Id say whilst warlocks has its great strengths I don't think any kind of char has power over that one, i could basicly wish myself to rest multiple times having infinite endless time stop.

    I solo'd demagorgon for fuck sakes, so yeah warlocks fine bro-han, I just love it for the role play and im not saying its not good its certainly got some interesting and powerful thing, but the only thing that really makes it good is that the spells are infinite, about 90-95% of mage spells are FAR stronger.
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 792

    ... Time Stop + Contingency + Prot from Evil x2 (Dark Foresight), ...

    Just wanted to clarify this, it only grants immunity to Time Stop, it does not actually provide a time stop effect itself.

    I have no claim to any of it being balanced though, as at-will spellcasting does not exist in these games to compare. I decided to just go for function, get everything working correctly and as closely to the original as possible. Balance changes are easy to add-in afterwards, but require feedback for sure.
    terror13 said:

    aw only IWD lol wanna use it in bg1-2

    Also cmon lol don't start nerfing it its awesome and warlocks are MENT to be good, just keep the healing 10% huh.

    can you tell me the spell id btw so when when i get IWD and use this i can edit 10% for myself.

    A lot of it utilizes IWDEE's externalized projectile options. BG2EE now has these as well, but the same patch also broke priest kit proficiency selection. I also still have not started on the HLA's. The only thing that I remember isn't compatible with BGEE is Eldritch Chain, I think everything else was above the level cap, but there must have been something else.

    Path of Shadow -> WRLKLD5.SPL
    This wasn't entirely a nerf though, the targeting changed from "party"(which I realized wasn't appropriate) to 10' Area, still not affecting enemies, so it can now effect summons and friendly NPC's.

    The rest of the nerfs are completely separate and optional.
  • terror13terror13 Member Posts: 7
    edited February 2015
    Tbh path of shadow may be a bit strong on whole party so I suppose I agree about that, but the 10% heal aint so bad at all, thinking about it it means ull need a whole minute to regain ur full hp.

    For the nerf perhaps u should make it protect the warlock only? then it can be more of a warlocks breather and not let ur whole team wreck people whilst u constantly keep them protected.

    But then again its great to support ur party also, though im usually a self survival kinda char lol.

    Btw does it work for IWD2EE? Imma gonna start IWD now, but you never mentioned two, did you just not mention it cause its common sense or does it have troubles there? also it be great if it worked on bg2ee id take whatever I could get tbh, and much appreciate your work btw, I just love the warlock lore and so pissed the only game i can play with my friends that has it is nwn2.
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 792
    There is no IWD2EE.

    If you open WARLOCK[DRUID].tp2, with any text editor, and delete the line:

    REQUIRE_PREDICATE (GAME_IS ~iwdee~) ~KIT IS CURRENTLY IWDEE ONLY~

    it will attempt to install on anything, though I would not even try on a non-EE version.

    If I'm remember correctly you will eventually not be able to complete the level up process in BG2EE once you max out the standard Druid proficiencies(and that's all you will be able to choose from), though it might be fixable with EEkeeper. And I know a fresh ToB character is too high enough in level to assign all their proficiencies.
  • terror13terror13 Member Posts: 7
    edited February 2015
    alright awesome, shame it cant be on IWD2 but I could try, last thing, see the critical option? if I enable that will it make my eldritch blast hit LESS or MORE? because id rather hit more than have the crits, and outside of that is there any way to make my eldritch blast hit more with say stats or whatever?

    Also its working great so far, and I see looked up IWD2 a lot different and more like planescape, hope it can work on bgee and bg2ee then, thx for this its great btw

    Shame I can't unremember eldritch blow to get edlritch weapon instead.
    Post edited by terror13 on
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 792
    Enabling proper critical hit damage will reduce the chance to hit. Otherwise it is a ranged weapon, increasing DEX or use items that boost Thac0.
  • terror13terror13 Member Posts: 7
    Hey, the warlocks -/cold Iron Damage Resistance is an up from the old rules of "immune to normal weapons" and "immune to magic weapons +1-9" not really reducing physical damage by a %, liek you can constantly take 0 dmg with a max level warlock because u can get like 20dr and most attacks only every do 10-30 and thats including magick, you might get hit for like 20 really really fast many times but still 0 damage to a max damage resistance warlock (which has the epic feats)

    So the physical damage really pales in comparison, do you think you would like to replace that and add like immunity to normal weapons that eventually at really high level like 20 goes to +1 magical and crazy high levels like 35-40 goes to +2?

    I've done that with my own game, but I thought it just fits more officially, do you want me to just upload what I did with fiendish resilience? see what you think?
  • terror13terror13 Member Posts: 7
    edited February 2015
    Hey, the warlocks -/cold Iron Damage Resistance is an evolution the old rules of "immune to normal weapons" and "immune to magic weapons +1-9" not really reducing physical damage by a % you added, like you can constantly take 0 dmg with a max level warlock because u can get like 21 damage resistance and most attacks only every do 10-30 and thats including magick, you might get hit for like 1-21 really really fast many times but still 0 damage to a max damage resistance warlock (which has the epic feats)

    So the physical damage really pales in comparison, do you think you would like to replace that and add like immunity to normal weapons that eventually at really high level like 20 goes to +1 magical and crazy high levels like 35-40 goes to +2?

    I've done that with my own game, but I thought it just fits more officially, do you want me to just upload what I did with fiendish resilience? see what you think ?


    As I notice when you get really high you start just getting nothing, no level 10 spells (epic warlock feats by comparison) and no epic fiendish resilience (super mega regeneration) + the physical damage percentage isnt the upgrade of the offical rules (because like i said it damage resistance replaces immunity to +0 to +9 ) and yo u can't take NO damage from the physical damage % you implemented so it be more correct to do that, I know what you were trying to do but it just doesn't have the same effect it should.

    Also to everyone who posted here playing the lock I've found its defo not OP

    LASTLY the Dark Discorporation seemed immensly cool to me but its visual effect is extremely lame? ever think of changing it? Death cloud I think its called (liek dark purple smoke) could be a good visualization? want me to scour some for you?



    Post edited by terror13 on
  • jemy000jemy000 Member Posts: 40
    I've always loved the warlock and I'm definitely excited to see it here as a kit. I actually tried making a warlock for BG mod about a year ago but gave up in frustration when I couldn't get Eldritch Blast working properly as weapon. Kudos for the all hard work you've clearly already put into this. Since you're interested in feedback, and I've already spent a lot of time thinking about this kit, I've got plenty:

    To the people saying Eldritch Blast is OP, I strongly disagree. If you compare its damage to a similarly leveled archer per round, the archer comes out way ahead. The archer additionally benefits from a better thac0 and increased granularity (can split arrows between targets.) Of course the archer should hit harder, since the only thing he does is shoot arrows, but reducing the damage would make the ability crappy, and limiting uses per day would make it not a warlock. Keep it +1d6 every 2 levels please. Note that this all goes out the window if the warlock is allowed to gain multiple attacks per round. I suggest limiting it to 1 attack per round like the Chelsey Crusher in BG1EE.

    Why make it a druid kit? I'd expect the cleric to provide all the same mechanics and not have the wonky druid experience table.

    If I'm understanding it correctly I'm not a fan of how you implemented the improved accuracy of the blast being a touch attack. By expanding the threat range you make the high numbers that would hit anyway guaranteed hits while not actually making it more accurate. I think a bonus to the attack roll would be a better implementation. Maybe a +2 that scales up +1 every 4 levels or a flat +4.

    I absolutely love what you did with fiendish resilience. Way better than any idea I came up with.

    For the invocations most of them look great but I have some concerns. Take this all with a grain of salt since I haven't actually tried the kit yet, but here's my initial impressions:

    Hideous Blow: Can't really say anything until I see exactly how it works in the game, but I'm certainly intrigued that you managed to do it. Has the potential to be game-breaking and totally change what I said above about Eldritch Blast damage being fine.

    Eldritch Doom: Like Hideous Blow I want to see it in action, but it sounds potentially OP. On the other hand, it is a high level ability so maybe it will fit well.

    Hellrime Blast: I can't see using this because of the potentially destroyed items. I don't know if there's any way to fix that issue other than changing the damage type though.

    Brimstone Blast: At the level you gain access to this it is a big damage boost. Maybe too much?

    Noxious Blast: It's not really a problem with the ability, but I can't imagine using this with Vitriolic Blast available at the same level.

    Utterdark Blast: Awesome design work here. Great idea using poison damage.

    Charm: Potentially OP. Charming in BG is much better than PnP.

    The Dead Walk: This seems both bothersome and overpowered to use. There's little reason not to summon up 5 skeletons before every battle except for the time you'd have spend watching the cast animations.

    Walk Unseen: Shouldn't this only be able to target the warlock?

    Chilling Tentacles: I don't understand the tentacle damage. Did you mean '5-8 (1d4+4)'? What is times 1d4?

    Nightmares Made Real: Does this hit party members?

    Dark Discorporation: Just wanted to say this looks like a ton of fun.

    Path of Shadow: This heals the entire party? Very powerful, but it's a dark ability so maybe that's ok.


    Overall it looks amazing. I'd planned to wait for the 1.4 patch to play iwd again but now that's going to be awfully hard. I hope you keep working on this and bring it to BG. :smile:
    fireandsteel73
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 792
    terror13 said:

    Hey, the warlocks -/cold Iron Damage Resistance...

    I personally have found Immunity to Weapon #'s too arbitrary in these games. When it applies, it stops way too much(all on-hit effects) to be used as a stand in for damage reduction. There is just no ideal replacement for damage reduction in the infinity engine. But I could include both to choose from as options.

    As for Epics:
    IWD will not have anything Epic level added, same as the base content (no HLA's).
    I do plan on making them for BG2, eventually, I'm just not there yet.

    ----------------
    jemy000 said:

    Note that this all goes out the window if the warlock is allowed to gain multiple attacks per round. I suggest limiting it to 1 attack per round like the Chelsey Crusher in BG1EE.

    To the best I could, it is limited to 1 attack per round. Haste will still give them an extra attack, since the only way around that is total immunity to haste effects. When I tried the "Set Final APR" option used by Chesley's Crusher, I was not getting proper results, so it may not have been implemented in all 3 games then/yet.
    jemy000 said:

    Why make it a druid kit? I'd expect the cleric to provide all the same mechanics and not have the wonky druid experience table.

    In IWD, the druid has a smooth EXP table. In BG2, its level cap is the same as a wizard/sorcerer, so fewer max HP and HLA choices, when I get to them. Also gave an extra quick-cast slot.
    jemy000 said:

    If I'm understanding it correctly I'm not a fan of how you implemented the improved accuracy of the blast being a touch attack. By expanding the threat range you make the high numbers that would hit anyway guaranteed hits while not actually making it more accurate. I think a bonus to the attack roll would be a better implementation. Maybe a +2 that scales up +1 every 4 levels or a flat +4.

    It is only meant as a counter to enemies that have obscene AC values, where anything but a critical will miss, making them as easy to hit as an unarmored target. A thac0 bonus would make less-armored targets too easy to hit, which a touch attack should not have any advantage against.
    jemy000 said:

    Hideous Blow: Can't really say anything until I see exactly how it works in the game, but I'm certainly intrigued that you managed to do it. Has the potential to be game-breaking and totally change what I said above about Eldritch Blast damage being fine.

    I tried to make sure it wasn't game-breaking. It will only hit once per activation, so it's cast&attack, but it will remain active until you do actually hit something. It is probably a little weak, but for Least tier that was better than way OP.

    Hellrime: Tried many ways to avoid the item destruction, left it in since it was already created.
    Brimstone Blast: It may be, burning could be reduced to 1d6 until greater invocations are available.
    Noxious Blast: Might extend duration another round, or scale it up to 4.
    Charm: 24h immunity to further castings on a successful save, save bonus?
    Walk Unseen: It is caster only.
    Chilling Tentacles: Anyone in the area is supposed to be struck up to 4 times per round, dealing 1d6+4 damage each time. The total damage range (5-40) is condensed into a single hit to avoid flooding the message box. So it deals 5d8 once, instead of 1d6+4, 1 to 4 times.
    Nightmares Made Real: It does not damage party members, but they are still rendered blind and invisible while inside.
    Path of Shadow: I changed its range to 10' radius, as proper, but yes it should heal party members in range and any friendly summons/NPC's in range as well.
  • jemy000jemy000 Member Posts: 40
    I was unable to resist the warlock's siren call, and started a new game yesterday to try it out. I decided to make a party that will really test the warlock compared to its base game analogues, and this is what I came up with:
    Ranged Warlock Human
    Archer Elf
    Melee Warlock Human
    Berserker Gnome
    Fighter Human, will dual class to cleric at level 3
    Thief/Mage Gnome

    The last 2 characters are basically there to provide support while the locks and their analogues compete for kills.

    I had some stumbles before leaving the first tavern. I didn't know warlocks had to be human and spent some time trying to make a half elf. (I assume this is intentional? The melee lock really wanted to be a half-orc, but I'm guessing that's impossible as a druid kit) I was also surprised to see their d6 hit points. Melee lock didn't like that much either. It took a few minutes of tooling around to figure how choosing and preparing the invocations works. Maybe in a final version you could have details about that in a readme, but it was no big deal. I had to refer back to this thread to see what the different abilities do while I was choosing them so that could be another topic for the readme. I can't imagine how you'd effectively include the information in the game unless there's some way to coopt the sorcerer level up page. Maybe list them all in the kit description? That would make it quite lengthy though.

    Once the party got moving the locks were unsurprisingly massively outclassed at level 1. I had to make the analogues stop attacking for them to get a chance to hit things. I immediately encountered a significant problem though- I can't get melee lock's Eldritch Blow ability to work. He activates it and a white icon appears on his portrait until he hits something, but no damage is added. I tried it using a mace, a dagger, and unarmed, so the weapon isn't the issue. Please advise.

    Frightful Blast on the other hand worked perfectly, and making the enemies flee my ranged attacker is a pretty sweet gimmick.
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 792
    jemy000 said:

    ...
    I had some stumbles before leaving the first tavern. I didn't know warlocks had to be human and spent some time trying to make a half elf. (I assume this is intentional? The melee lock really wanted to be a half-orc, but I'm guessing that's impossible as a druid kit) I was also surprised to see their d6 hit points. Melee lock didn't like that much either. It took a few minutes of tooling around to figure how choosing and preparing the invocations works. Maybe in a final version you could have details about that in a readme, but it was no big deal. I had to refer back to this thread to see what the different abilities do while I was choosing them so that could be another topic for the readme. I can't imagine how you'd effectively include the information in the game unless there's some way to coopt the sorcerer level up page. Maybe list them all in the kit description? That would make it quite lengthy though.

    Once the party got moving the locks were unsurprisingly massively outclassed at level 1. I had to make the analogues stop attacking for them to get a chance to hit things. I immediately encountered a significant problem though- I can't get melee lock's Eldritch Blow ability to work. He activates it and a white icon appears on his portrait until he hits something, but no damage is added. I tried it using a mace, a dagger, and unarmed, so the weapon isn't the issue. Please advise.

    The human-only restriction is only there because I would have to allow the base class(Druid) for the other races to enable the Warlock for them. I did not want to make such a change by default. There is no harm changing the race with EEkeepr or NI though.
    The d6 hit die is listed near the bottom of the in-game kit description, like other kits have it. It is their proper hit die.
    Creating a readme for preparing invocations - ok.
    Adding invocation descriptions for choosing them - I could put everything into the selection abilities description, it would be LONG, but it would be sorted by tier at least.

    Eldritch Blow: did you activate a blast essence? It will not default to normal blasts unfortunately, I could not get that to work properly without causing problems. One of the reasons I added the minor color change to their clothing to indicate which/if an essence is active. Another thing I will need to find a fix for or add to the readme.
    The white icon you see I assume is "Spell Sequencer Active", which is hardcoded to the effects I used, so you will eventually see it permanently. Even the "Disable Portrait Icon" effect wouldn't block it.
  • jemy000jemy000 Member Posts: 40
    The surprising thing about the race restriction was that I expected half-elf to be allowed, since it is for other druids.

    Activating a blast essence for melee lock fixed the problem. My lock team has finished the prologue and reached Kuldahar now. Everyone just reached level 2. So far ranged lock has been a useful if unspectacular character, while melee lock has been a handicap on the party worse than not having a 6th character. We'll see if he can turn things around with some levels. I'll probably come back here with a report after each chapter.
  • jemy000jemy000 Member Posts: 40
    edited February 2015
    I haven't finished chapter one yet (actually I just got to the entrance of the main crypt, warlocks both just leveled up to 4) but I'm probably done for the day so here's some notes while it's fresh in my mind-

    Earthen Grasp is awesome, but not because of its entangling effect. Enemies will target the ooze it summons, making it a spammable summon tank, and it's even immune to some damage. (slashing attacks? not certain) Melee lock became a lot more useful once he started summoning this thing instead of meleeing. It should probably be nerfed so the ooze is a crappy tank.

    Summon Swarm left me very underwhelmed. With my party of 6 there has to be a lot of enemies for it to not come after my team. I'm sure it was just bad luck but my swarms had a remarkable tendency to go after the caster. Maybe you could reduce the duration to 4 rounds but make it only hit enemies to be viable.

    I just acquired One's Own Luck and I can't tell if it's doing anything. I never chose a saving throw to be improved, it doesn't make an icon on the character, and I don't see modifiers to any saves in the record sheet.

    I realized melee lock is going to need a fast weapon to maximize his efficacy. I started him with mace and single weapon style, and he spent a ton of time just standing there (when not casting Earthen Grasp). I swapped him to a dagger and now he's able to cast an invocation, run in and stab, then retreat and cast again or renew eldritch weapon. I haven't gotten to experiment with this new playstyle much yet, but I think it will make him a lot more useful. On the other hand it will require tons of micromanagement. 4th level proficiency went into dagger instead of my intended longsword, which he'll probably acquire at 8th.

    It would be nice if there were a portrait icon for eldritch weapon being active. In combat I was often scrolling through the log looking to see if he'd hit with an attack and needed to refresh it.
    Post edited by jemy000 on
  • jemy000jemy000 Member Posts: 40
    edited February 2015
    I played a little more iwd tonight and found another issue: At level 4 ranged lock selected eldritch burst. I expected this to modify his ranged attack to do some aoe damage. Instead it is an independent melee range aoe attack that can hurt allies, but, contrary to the description, not the caster. It doesn't appear to require an attack roll, so this ability would actually be a big upgrade for melee lock, but I don't think this is how it is supposed to function.

    Edit: Just did a little more experimenting with it, and it can hurt the caster, but the range is long enough for him to cast from outside the blast radius so I hadn't seen it happen before.
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 792
    jemy000 said:

    I played a little more iwd tonight and found another issue: At level 4 ranged lock selected eldritch burst. I expected this to modify his ranged attack to do some aoe damage. Instead it is an independent melee range aoe attack that can hurt allies, but, contrary to the description, not the caster. It doesn't appear to require an attack roll, so this ability would actually be a big upgrade for melee lock, but I don't think this is how it is supposed to function.

    Edit: Just did a little more experimenting with it, and it can hurt the caster, but the range is long enough for him to cast from outside the blast radius so I hadn't seen it happen before.

    It's functioning exactly as intended then. None of the AoE shapes require an attack roll, instead they have a save for half damage, and all of them except for Doom can damage allies.
    Burst does not have a PnP equivalent though, I made it up to provide low level option for AoE, but made it risky as an offset. I do want it remain something you ditch at higher levels for the other AoE shapes.

    I think I will make an essence like that though:
    (Placeholder) Essence:
    (Blast Essence)
    Tier: Least/Lesser?
    Damage Type: Magic
    (Placeholder) Blast modifies your eldritch blast to innately affect an area. Single target blasts will have a small area of effect, with a save for half damage, while area targeted Blasts will be party friendly and no longer offer a save for half damage. Modifies Eldritch Ward to provide (?)% Magic Resistance per Blast Die.

    More firepower, but no variety of effects from other essences.
    jemy000 said:

    I haven't finished chapter one yet (actually I just got to the entrance of the main crypt, warlocks both just leveled up to 4) but I'm probably done for the day so here's some notes while it's fresh in my mind-...

    Earthen Grasp: I don't want to make it untargetable, that would be just as bad. I'll increase its AC to max, so only a critical Miss won't hit it, and reduce its immunities so it always takes at least "1" damage from everything, and more/full damage from more types. I'll make sure the other one gets the same, with only offensive improvements over this one.

    Summon Swarm: not sure how I'd like to change it yet, but I agree that it is weak. I already scaled the damage, but I couldn't find a way to improve its target selection while still keeping it random. It was almost exactly identical to the PnP version, except that one only changes targets after its current target dies. Mine will end if it kills something though, which was a functional limitation, not design. I may make it a small AoE that sticks to one target, but damages all directly around them, so it still attacks indiscriminately.

    One's Own Luck: It won't do anything if you don't select a saving throw, but its not a permanent choice, recasting it will allow you to change the saving throw. It should display the Luck Icon when active.

    I will add a portrait icon for Eldritch weapon, likely either the Poison Weapon or one of the melee HLA icons. I have considered making the ability scale, to allow an extra use per casting at some high level.

    Thank you for the feedback btw, you too Terror
  • jemy000jemy000 Member Posts: 40
    I finished the vale of shadows, and I have a ton of notes. But I'll start at the beginning, which is addressing your last post. Regarding Eldritch Burst, I wish I'd understood it before. Sounds like an interesting ability. I would've had melee lock use it through the vale and I think it would've helped him hit the right power level.

    I like the idea for the aoe blast essence. Removing the save for half damage is pretty badass and warrants the lesser tier imo. Explosive Blast? Eruptive Blast? I dunno, those names don't really fit with the smart targeting aspect. I'd give it 4% MR per die for the ward.

    The Earthen Grasp change sounds good.

    The sticky aoe would make summon swarm a good mage killer. Would it penetrate stoneskin? If so I'd make the duration pretty short, maybe 3 rounds.

    One's Own Luck worked fine when I tried it again. Somehow I didn't get or didn't see the saving throw selection step before.

    Poison Weapon would be good for Eldritch Weapon, or any icon with a weapon in it really. Scaling up the # of attacks with level would be cool but it's a careful balancing act. I would've said 'too good' a couple days ago, but melee lock has not been able to carry his weight thus far so a nice buff may be warranted. I'd still cap it at 2 hits per cast lest the Eldritch dart thrower become the ultimate warlock.

    Gameplay notes:

    Ranged lock ran the vale with Frightful Blast, Entropic Shield, and Eldritch Burst. Sadly all three of these abilities were useless. The undead were immune to panic, he was rarely targeted by enemies so entropic shield never stopped a projectile, and Eldritch Burst, while useful a few times, did not go well with his desire to stay off the front line. Even doing half damage against all the skeletal enemies my archer was way better, and finished with 3x as many kills.

    Melee lock had Eldritch Weapon, Earthen Grasp, and One's Own Luck. Earthen Grasp was definitely the mvp here, and the only reason he did anything other than summon oozes was that I wanted experiment with other gameplay. Using Eldritch weapon with his dagger proved effective, and I put the infinity engine's separate cooldowns for attacking and spellcasting to extensive use. Not getting exceptional strength or increased apr still kept his damage output well behind the berserker though, who finished with about 2x as many kills. Combined with his worse AC and HPs casting Earthen Grasp was all that kept him from being a crappy fighter. The gameplay actually felt similar to my shadowdancer I played through BG with the constant repositioning and swapping between using abilities and melee.

    Overall analysis for low level warlocks- Earthen Grasp is sick, but otherwise they suck. A big part of the problem for ranged lock was all the enemies being immune to fear. I'd forgotten just how prolific the undead are. It seems situational, but that's a problem every low level IWD character will face. considering the HD limit on it, this means frightful blast is only useful for the prologue. It'd be great if the kit moves to BG, but for IWD it is kind of a trap. Another problem is accuracy. Other fighting characters benefit from magical weapons, specialization, exceptional strength, and/or multiple apr making a miss less of a hindrance. Looking at my character's thac0s I see melee lock 15, berserker 10, ranged lock 13, archer 7. Yeah, those are specialized characters, but in PnP my warlock was the most accurate member of the party. The eldritch blast damage formula counts on that accuracy imo. I think a stronger modeling of the touch attack bonus is needed.

    Potential improvements- Remove or change Frightful Blast. Make it a higher level ability with a longer fear effect maybe, or give it another effect that only hits undead. Add a least blast essence that boosts base thac0 and damage. Maybe +4/+2. Focused Blast? Improving summon swarm could help a lot. I think it would be good as a sticky aoe with a shorter duration but higher damage. It would've allowed ranged lock to balance attacking and casting like melee lock did. I think making improvements via the least invocations would be good because I'm expecting the lessers to go a long way to improving the class, but maybe that opinion will change once I played further...

    A bug I noticed- when a lock equips heavy armor or a shield there's a message about spells being disabled but it doesn't actually prevent casting.

    I've got more but I've gotta run so that's all for now.
  • jemy000jemy000 Member Posts: 40
    edited February 2015
    Part 2- After seeing how many of the least invocations I misunderstood I decided to try out all the lesser ones before continuing my adventure. I also experimented with the least ones some more. Here's my analysis:

    Eldritch Burst: I really wish I'd used this on melee lock earlier. Seems appropriately powerful and fun to use.
    Eldritch Chain: Looks neat. This will probably be ranged lock's first lesser.
    Eldritch Ward: This almost turns the warlock into a different character. I can imagine an interesting design space for a warlock tank with awesome AC from this that only spams invocations. It'd be a pretty high level build though, and I can't see using this otherwise.

    Frightful Blast: see previous posts
    Beshadowed Blast: This is the ability I should've had on ranged lock. Depending on what changes get made this could be the go to invocation for starting locks in IWD, but I don't think it is powerful enough to get them over the low level hump.
    Hellrime Blast: The stacking penalty is pretty sweet and I think this could be a great ability with an aoe blast shape. Too bad about the item destruction.
    Brimstone Blast: Looks just as good as I expected but I'm less concerned now about it being OP. It's competing with eldritch chain as my top choice for ranged lock.

    Entropic Warding: Gets a definite meh. 20% seems low but a high level lock looking to still get value from least invocations may use it anyway.
    Spiderwalk: Hard to see this being used. I didn't have anyone able to cast entangle or web to test it, but it did not provide immunity for the stony grasp ooze's entangle.
    See the Unseen: Even harder to imagine this being used.
    Baleful Utterance: Didn't have any locks to test this on but I assume it works as advertised. Definitely could be handy in the right party, but not for mine.
    Summon Swarm: see previous posts
    Earthen Grasp: see previous posts
    One's Own Luck: Looks like a great ability for high level warlocks.

    Charm: Didn't get to experiment with this one since I was in town, but I'm still expecting it to be ridiculous. I'll try it out and see for certain.
    The Dead Walk: Summoning one skeleton is neat and useful. Summoning 5+ is crazy. It was funny having my two warlocks summon up armies and go to war against each other, but the ability shouldn't stay like this. Can you make it so only one skeleton can be summoned at a time, like the planetars in ToB? If so do that and increase the duration. If not I'm not sure how to fix this one.
    Flee the Scene: Cool and fun ability. Ranged lock will definitely be using it eventually.
    Stony Grasp: Awesome like earthen grasp, but I'm not sure it's enough better to warrant the higher slot. Maybe it should get more damage?
    Voracious Dispelling: Could be nice to have later on but I won't be taking it for either lock anytime soon. Also it's a bit buggy. If I dispel a warlock invocation it works fine but doesn't do damage. If I dispel a buff from my cleric or mage it works as advertised but I get a message in the log like "[target name]:Invalid: 52056 : [target name]" The 52056 numbers are the same everytime.
    Walk Unseen: Looks like an effective and fun but not OP ability to me.
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 792
    General Blast accuracy: Going to work on having every Essence and Shape taken provide a passive +1 Thac0 bonus for Eldritch Blast/Blow/Chain. Maybe Eldritch Weapon as well.

    Blast APR: Set them up to gain Warrior APR. They will get this for all weapons they are proficient in, but the blasts can be controlled - I can limit it to only certain Blast Shapes, or add it to an Essence, or make it an HLA. Right now its just automatic at levels 7 & 13 like warriors. Eldritch Weapon will extend to 2 attacks at level 15.

    Frightful Blast - Adjusted the level limit: no save below level 6, save to negate for level 6+. This may be an IWD only change though.

    Eldritch Ward - Already had plans to extend this, either:
    Broader use: Adding an offensive component and having it discharge as a medium-sized, self-centered AoE whenever it is manually ended/changed out. It would be party friendly for practicality. Basically a smaller range PnP Eldritch Doom.
    or:
    Niche use: Enhancing it defensively and having it benefit from all known essences at once, instead of just the active essence, and changing the damage resistances from (10-100)% to ~(25-70)%.

    Charm - Changed it to grant the victim 24hr immunity whether its successful or not.

    The Dead Walk - Added a degradation effect to the Summoned Undead, dropping their max HP by 1 every second until it destroys them. I can make them unique like planater/deva though, I will probably keep the degradation - it is supposed to be a weaker spell than the Priest/Wizard version anyway. Will also reduce the cast time and add an ability to the undead to kill themselves so they can be replaced if desired.

    Earthen/Stony Grasp - I'll look into redesigning the damage aspect of these. From what I know it's supposed to be a touch attack with a thac0 bonus = 2 + caster level + (caster level / 3), and a damage bonus = 2 + (caster level / 3), but that would be a nightmare for a summon(and like 30 .cre and .itm files each). They already auto-hit, which seemed appropriate for a touch attack with warrior+ thac0 advancement. I'll increase the base damage for now, and remove the save against it, not sure why its there anyway.

    Spiderwalk - Currently its only stops the actual spells, Entangle, Web, and Grease. I may rebrand it as a Lesser granting full free-action.

    Considering - Hammer Blast - Essence, Least, Blunt Damage / Bypass MR, Effect depending on target type: Solid exterior(Construct, Skeletal, Carapace) - Save or Prone(Unconscious) for 2 seconds. Soft exterior - Save or knockback. Incorporeal (ghosts, shadows) - nothing extra. Liquids (Oozes, Slimes, Water Elementals if possible) - Immune. Eldritch Ward - Likely Physical Damage Resistance.

    New addition - Permeating Blast - The Innate AoE essence, Eldritch Ward effect reduced from Magic Resistance to just Magic Damage Resistance, don't have to worry about balancing that.

    Shields and Heavy Armor - I assume you are able to still cast them through the quick-cast slots? Turns out that is an engine bug present in IWD but not in BG1, haven't tested BG2. I can create a work-around for it.
    Quick-cast slots are supposed to be emptied of appropriate spells whenever a Disable Spellcasting effect is applied, except IWD only removes wizard spells when disabled, but not priest spells. BG1 will remove either.

    Voracious Dispelling - the "Invalid" is leftover debugging, just so I could "see" something, an easy string fix. Is it dealing damage for the normal spells though? Warlock Invocations were intentionally omitted for damage, its in the in-game description. This was mostly for consistency with Devour Magic, which does not affect a Warlock's own Invocations. Neither of them will trigger another's Retributive Invisibility, though this is more a targeting issue than a design/balance decision. I have also found a bug in the Install for Devour Magic, so it will need fixing before it works at all(it will still dispel, but thats all)

    Entropic Warding - it can go higher if needed, but its not a perfect implementation, the average % is left up to that damn RNG, but I wanted to keep it as a unique miss chance instead of missile resistance or AC. I'll up it to 40% for now - a noticeable effect is a necessary effect. You will see a blank line in the message window when it blocks something - the .2da controlling the string ref doesn't work, even for the original content.

    Hellrime - The only thing I can think of is adjust the damage type, maybe just 1 total cold damage, and (1d4+1) piercing damage per blast die. A play on a "piercing/biting cold"? It will slightly adjust its effectiveness against certain targets though.

    See the Unseen - don't know of much I could do with this one. Adding a Detect traps effect maybe? that might be too much though.
  • jemy000jemy000 Member Posts: 40
    Accuracy and APR- These are effective boosts, however they are mid to high level fixes and so far I've only tested low level gameplay and found it to be needing a boost.

    Frightful Blast- I don't really like this fix. Removing the level cap certainly improves the ability, But it doesn't help with the 'trap' aspect of it sucking against the prolific undead in IWD, and I think removing the save at low levels could make it OP when the kit moves to BG. Could you add a turning effect so it 'scares' undead as well?

    Eldritch Ward- Both fixes sound potentially neat. The offensive one provides a new gameplay option, which is something I'm always a fan of, while the broadened defenses would make the tanky warlock I mentioned before more compelling. If you do the offensive one make sure it doesn't have broken interactions with Walk Unseen. I'd be happy with either but I'm slightly inclined to the defensive option.

    Charm - I like this change. I will pretend it is already in place and see how it does only targeting each enemy once.

    Dead Walk - Sounds good. I still think it should be one skeleton at a time.

    Earthen/Stony Grasp - Only Stony Grasp needs a boost imo. Earthen is already the best least invocation.

    Spiderwalk - Still doesn't seem compelling to me. I will have to think more about potential fixes for this one.

    Hammer Blast sounds neat. This would easily be the best essence for low level IWD. Potentially pretty awesome for high levels too when you could do an AoE knockdown attack.

    Permeating Blast sounds good. It will make Eldritch Burst defunct though.

    Armor - Correct, it only leaves quick casting accessible.

    Voracious dispelling - It is doing damage for the non warlock effects. How could it ever dispel retributive invis though? It doesn't hit an area (I assumed intentionally) and spells cant target an invis character.

    Entropic Warding - Good change. I think 40% should be noticeable but not excessive.

    Hellrime Blast - Reducing the amount of cold damage reduces the chance of item destruction? I don't know the mechanics of that interaction. It would definitely make the ability worse in terms of damage, but the tradeoff is probably worth it.

    See the Unseen - Detect traps would almost allow warlocks to replace thieves. Actually, with Walk Unseen, it might make them better thieves than normal thieves. Maybe it could dispel all illusions upon activation instead of just invis? That would be too powerful for a least though, and again overlap with thieves via detect illusions. Maybe it could cast clairvoyance or farsight? I just can't think of anything I particularly like for this one that sticks with the sight theme.
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 792
    jemy000 said:

    Accuracy and APR- These are effective boosts, however they are mid to high level fixes and so far I've only tested low level gameplay and found it to be needing a boost.

    Worded it badly, the Thac0 boost would include the 3 you start with, so it will provide an immediate boost.
    jemy000 said:

    Dead Walk - Sounds good. I still think it should be one skeleton at a time.

    It is.
    jemy000 said:

    Spiderwalk - Still doesn't seem compelling to me. I will have to think more about potential fixes for this one.

    Nothing at this time.
    jemy000 said:

    Permeating Blast sounds good. It will make Eldritch Burst defunct though.

    That is fine though, I think your first pick Least tiers should be temporary until you get better invocations and replace them with longterm options. Still, using Permeating for AoE will sacrifice having the effects of other essences/damage types.
    jemy000 said:

    Voracious dispelling - It is doing damage for the non warlock effects. How could it ever dispel retributive invis though? It doesn't hit an area (I assumed intentionally) and spells cant target an invis character.

    I though you could self-target while invisible? Anyway, I excluded it because I had not decided on a single target or AoE effect at the time, I was still considering options in case I could not get the PnP functionality to work.
    jemy000 said:

    Hellrime Blast - Reducing the amount of cold damage reduces the chance of item destruction? I don't know the mechanics of that interaction. It would definitely make the ability worse in terms of damage, but the tradeoff is probably worth it.

    The frozen chunking effect should have the same requirement as normal chunking, which is loosely based on the amount of over-kill. The cold damage needs to be the killing hit for a frozen chunk though - I know that much for sure, so if it only deals 1 point of cold damage first, then deals the rest as another type, the cold damage can't result in over-kill, so the chunking should be normal. The damage is less because the debuff is cumulative, before the risk was more than enough of a trade-off.
    jemy000 said:

    See the Unseen - Detect traps would almost allow warlocks to replace thieves. Actually, with Walk Unseen, it might make them better thieves than normal thieves. Maybe it could dispel all illusions upon activation instead of just invis? That would be too powerful for a least though, and again overlap with thieves via detect illusions. Maybe it could cast clairvoyance or farsight? I just can't think of anything I particularly like for this one that sticks with the sight theme.

    I actually think being able to replace a thief with all the right invocation choices wouldn't be a bad thing. It is the only class without a true alternative. Unfortunately I would not be able to make spells adhere to the threshold system for locks and traps, they would always be able to succeed. I may give them an equivalent to the Priests Detect Traps spell as a Least Invocation separate from this anyway though. Back to See the Unseen - I could have it provide a combat boost, something like +2 Thac0 and AC, as better "seeing" your opponents openings and attacks in combat.
    jemy000 said:

    Frightful Blast- I don't really like this fix. Removing the level cap certainly improves the ability, But it doesn't help with the 'trap' aspect of it sucking against the prolific undead in IWD, and I think removing the save at low levels could make it OP when the kit moves to BG. Could you add a turning effect so it 'scares' undead as well?

    I would rather it scare one or the other, but not both. So how about I rename it Repelling Blast and have it actually turn undead(as a good priest), and leave the original Frightful blast for BG/2. I would probably set the turning level high to start, just below what can outright destroy a level 1(which can also turn up to level 5 undead), and have it progress very slowly, so a cleric will overtake them.
  • jemy000jemy000 Member Posts: 40
    I noticed while playing today when ranged lock recast his eldritch blast he got a +3 'ability bonus' to thac0. Is this inherent in the blast? For some reason it seems to not stay on the character, but so far I have no idea why. I'll pay more attention to it going forward. I think that bonus has been absent more often than not, but it was included in the 13 thac0 I listed after completing the vale. It doesn't show up with eldritch blow or weapon either.

    I had an idea that I'm quite fond of for Spiderwalk: It could give a boost to movement speed.

    +2 thac0 and AC would definitely make See the Unseen tempting. As for making warlocks into thief replacements, what about trap removal? I've noticed in IWD the traps seem to go away after triggering, but that's generally not the case in BG, and BG has some awfully mean traps.

    The problem with making repelling and fright into different blasts is they'd both be inferior to your proposed hammer blast. I think improving them to match hammer is a better option than nerfing hammer. This probably should be a concern with beshadowed blast as well.

    I completed the temple of the forgotten god. It's a remarkably short area where none of my characters even gained a level, but I still got some useful info. Ranged lock took Brimstone Blast. It was less useful than I expected. My party killed most enemies so fast they couldn't take DoT damage, and his accuracy continued to be poor. Hopefully it will shine more when he gets Eldritch Chain soon.

    Melee lock took Charm. It was just as good as I expected. The giants were immune, but the druids have an impressive selection of spells. Stealing the enemy casters and having them static charge down the giants then heal up any wounds my party took during the fight was obscenely effective. I finished the dungeon with my whole party at full health, having never rested or used a healing spell from my cleric. I probably just happened to be testing charm in the best location in the game for it, but I'm still thinking it's OP. Potential nerfs are giving a bonus to save against it or shortening the duration. I think giving it a very short duration, maybe 3 rounds, would be the better way to go. I think it's a lot more fun to have a good ability that works frequently rather than an amazing ability that usually fails.
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,406
    edited February 2015
    I disagree that the Warlock is imbalanced in ADnD 2E.

    A Sorcerer can destroy a Warlock any time of the day.
    By the time the Warlock threw 3 blasts (for about half the Fireball damage), the Sorcerer has fired a crapton of Fireballs, Skulltraps, Chromatic Orbs and Dragon Breaths while protected and in Time Stop.

    And infinite blasts means that you don't have to rest as often, not more power.
    Warlocks are magical archers, not nukers like Sorcerers.

    Sorcerer was in since day 1 of BG2's release.
  • jemy000jemy000 Member Posts: 40
    I'm up to level 3 of dragon's eye and the warlocks just hit level 8. I was excited to try out Eldritch Chain, but it didn't go as planned. When using any of the least blast essences the ability mostly works as it should - the first target appears to take half damage twice, I imagine to enable taking half damage once for secondary targets. The second target takes half damage. Then the projectile bounces to a 3rd target which it doesn't affect at all. I'm unsure how the # of targets is rounded, so I don't know if it should be hitting a 3rd target at this level. When I use Hellrime Blast things get a little weird: It mostly works as before, but each target seems to be hit by a small AoE that damages any creature in the immediate vicinity. When I use Brimstone Blast things get really weird: instead of the normal beholder ray-like projectile my warlock starts throwing rainbow-hued glyphs of warding. These explode at the target causing AoE fire damage in a pretty large area. Then, instead of the projectile bouncing to another target, the warlock quickly throws another glyph at the secondary target causing another AoE explosion. For now ranged lock will continue using Chain with Beshadowed Blast. I'll let you know what happens with the greater essences when I get there.

    I haven't seen that +3 ability bonus once on ranged lock since I made my previous post. It's kinda making me feel crazy. I noticed he can get a critical hit on an 11 now. His crit threshold has surpassed his accuracy and he generally only hits on crits now.

    At one point the Entropic Warding graphic triggered from a snowball swarm. It didn't prevent any damage so it seems like a very minor bug.

    My Earthen Grasp oozes used to last for 2 rounds but I noticed they can now stick around for 4. Is there a level-based component in the duration? I think 2 rounds was plenty.

    I was thinking it'd be neat if warlocks could cast in chain mail. There's some PnP precedent since they can wear chain shirts, and I think a little more AC early in the game would be good for them. But really the main reason I like the idea is just that chain is so unloved in the infinity engine games. Tons of characters use leather and plate, and nobody (except barbarians, but who plays those?) uses anything else. It'd be nice to have someone putting chain mail to good use. Also, it looks pretty neat on the warlock's thief avatar.
  • jemy000jemy000 Member Posts: 40
    After finishing my last post I decided it was silly to wait on testing the other essences with chain when the info might be helpful now. So I hacked ranged lock up to level 25 and gave them a shot:

    Bewitching Blast: looks fine
    Noxious Blast: looks fine
    Vitriolic Blast: causes small AoEs like Hellrime Blast
    Binding Blast: looks fine

    It occurs to me that Hammer Blast is arguably better than all of the greaters, and not much worse than Binding Blast. I'll think on that a bit more.
«1345678
Sign In or Register to comment.