The targeting limitation may prevent improved haste from boosting chain, but that's not a very user friendly way to manage it. What happens if you try to attack too fast? The projectiles don't do anything when they hit?
You could go with the monk solution, ie grant the class haste immunity as an ability, but as you said it isn't an elegant solution. Unfortunately I can't think of a better one.
The entropic graphic definitely needs a change. Making it persistent could be neat, but the sphere is rather obtrusive so it may get tiresome. I like having shinies on my characters but I know some people find the cloak of mirroring obnoxious. Can you change the color of the graphic?
I think you should disable single weapon style with claw and glaive if possible. Along with preventing their use with shields this gets them close enough to the intended weapon style.
Maximize and enlarge chain are good options, and more interesting than +APR. They both look appealing so it makes for a good choice.
Plague- the new functionality sounds good.
Still haven't gotten back to testing unfortunately. I won't be able to tomorrow but Saturday looks promising.
The targeting limitation may prevent improved haste from boosting chain, but that's not a very user friendly way to manage it. What happens if you try to attack too fast? The projectiles don't do anything when they hit?
Unfortunately this is a limitation of the Chaining Mechanism, the Chain Lightning spell will do the same thing if you cast it in quick succession. The initial target will always be hit, but the secondary targets can only be hit once per round. Its Critical Hit effect is also limited in this way. However, it at least does not waste itself on enemies already hit if there are other targets available. So as long as there is an enemy it can hit, it will.
I had the immunity duration scale down for each successive target, to help alleviate some of this. With the fewer targets, I could probably start it at 3 seconds instead of a full round.
Entropic - I will set it to constant for now. It is the graphic for IWD's Protection from Normal Missiles, which lasts 1 turn/level, so I guess your expected to endure it for a long time in the normal game already.
Found the setting for Claws to not get Single Weapon Style bonus, it removes the "dagger" animation and makes their attack appear unarmed, but that will have to be an acceptable loss.
Eldritch Glaive- Doesn't add any blast damage or essence effects for me. Also, there's a typo in the description where the ability refers to itself as Claw. I expected this to have the SWS proficiency problem like Claw, but it doesn't. Is the glaive it creates actually a 2H weapon? Eldritch Ward- Isn't being dispelled by switching blast types, and in fact doesn't seem to be removable at all. My lock could stack all the defensive bonuses by switching essences and recasting. The AC bonus doesn't get a listing on the Record sheet. Permeating Blast- When used with Chain the blast can still damage the warlock. I'm actually not sure if this is a bug. The description is a bit unclear. Also, while not really a problem, it's a bit odd that this essence lists how it interacts with Eldritch Ward but none of the others do. Brimstone Blast- The burning isn't prevented by fire resistance. Voracious Dispelling- In the description the word targets needs an apostrophe before the s. Dead Walk- This can still summon a horde of skeletons. Charm- When I cast this on a townsperson a message popped up saying townsperson unaffected but the charm still worked. I was able to charm the same person repeatedly. Stony Grasp- I think the damage on this one is a bit high too. Maybe make it 1d6+3, or 2d6. The saving throw entry in the description says Partial, but I think it should be Negates.
When selecting the warlock's elemental resistance at level 10 I only get to select one element but the class description says I choose two.
I was also thinking about the See the Unseen ability and I think its bonus is too good for a least invocation, compared to similar level abilities like Bless and Chant. I'd give +1 to thac0 and AC or +2 to only thac0. Or something else that could be neat is if it were reworked to give +1 crit range instead.
Glaive is a 2-handed weapon, so it will automatically get benefits for 2-handed weapon style. Part of why it is at the lesser tier instead of a least with Claw.
Permeating - The secondary hits are meant to be able to damage the Warlock, only the initial target should not backfire.
Since Permeating had a different effect for each shape, I just listed them all. But your right it would be good for all of them to list their separate effects for Ward.
Stony Grasp - 2d6 damage it is. Yes the partial should be negates.
See Unseen - I'll drop it to +1/+1, a crit range buff might be too much.
Dead Walk - I will probably have to do the same thing I did with the HLA summon, and have it kill any existing when it is cast.
Brimstone Blast - That can't be right, fire resistance isn't reducing the delayed damage?
In a mad flurry of testing I completed my run-through of all the invocations. It helped that the Greater and Dark ones didn't have many issues.
Lesser: Eldritch Chain- I noticed after my last post that casting Eldritch Chain while it is already active doesn't dispel it as the other blast abilities do.
Greater: Chilling Tentacles- There's no notification when someone fails a save. Also, very pleased with how you sorted the layering issues of this and other aoe invocations. I was worried that would be an ongoing problem. Devour Magic- In the description it's still called a touch attack but it is ranged now. My lock was not getting healed by this. (I tried dispelling warlock and cleric buffs) Noxious Blast- For some reason when used with the wall blast shape this will only apply the poison damage once even if the target stays in the wall for several rounds. Fire damage recurs normally. No other blast essence duplicated the problem.
Dark: Path of Shadows- Still doesn't heal. Shadowed characters can't cast spells, but they can still attack which obviously makes spamming this OP. Dark Discorporation- Love the bat graphics. Got the attack to work. But the constant mirror image is definitely over the top. There is some obvious and very potent synergy with Eldritch Ward. It needs a nerf, which I'll discuss more below. Dark Foresight- I wasn't able to test the time stop immunity, but the other parts work fine. The AC bonus doesn't show up in the list of AC modifiers on the inventory page... however with the other changes made to the class I don't like this ability having a base AC boost. It overlaps (and probably makes worthless) the new armor abilities.
This all brings us to a topic that came to mind a lot while testing, which is the warlock's ability to achieve some ridiculous AC levels. My high level lock achieved AC -6 naked using Dark Foresight and See the Unseen, -8 with Eldritch Ward. Retributive Invis effectively brings that to -12. Dark Discorporation's Dex boost brings it to -14 plus infinite mirror images. Combined with their ability to wear any gear they could handily surpass fighter/mages as the ultimate tank, and not even have to bother prebuffing. To bring them back to earth I think they should get the following changes:
See the Unseen- Remove the AC boost. Make it just boost thac0 or give the crit boost as I discussed before. Eldritch Ward- Instead of AC 7 + 1 per blast die make it AC 6 +1 per 2 blast dice. This makes it top out at AC 1, equivalent to full plate, which is still plenty powerful for a lesser invocation. Dark Discorporation- Remove the dex boost completely. Make mirror images refresh less frequently, perhaps every 5 rounds. Dark Foresight- Remove the base AC bonus, instead give it a +2 AC boost. I think this will be reasonable for a dark ability but not too good with the other abilities getting changed.
Appendix: ranged lock's thac0 breakdown I'm trying to figure out what is going on with the thac0 for eldritch blast and chain, and it is convoluted. Base THAC0: 6 ok to hit: -6 bonus based on essences known we discussed? dex mod: -2 ok eldritch chain: -5 enhancement bonus that was added? ability bonus: -3 is this an offset for the proficiency penalty? proficiencies: +3 so the warlock is penalized for not being proficient with blast? eldritch chain to hit: -5 what's this?
It's hard to tell, but I think at least one of these bonuses isn't supposed to be here. It'd be nice if there were some explanation of the various thac0 mods in the blast and chain ability descriptions.
Short on time so I'll be quick: AC boosts: I think this is another 3e->2e conversion issue, where 3e goes uncapped and 2e start to plateau, so I will re-evaluate.
Base AC bonus will not show up visually except for the final value for any source that is not equipped.
The mess of values in the Thac0 box are as you suspect: The 2x: Eldritch Chain: -5's are both the inherit to-hit bonus from the Enchantment level. I do not know why it shows it twice, but only one is applied. Works for some vanilla items like this as well. The Proficiency penalty/boost is to cancel the other out, and stop APR increases.
I completely missed the post in between my last two. I guess that's what I get for leaving a post open for hours while I'm testing. After seeing your skepticism I tried brimstone blast again and it looks like the problem is actually with Eldritch Ward. A fire resistance spell reduces the burning damage, but my lock with the Fire resist Ward somehow takes reduced damage from the initial blast, but full damage from the burning. The same thing happens using an acidic ward against vitriolic blast.
Did some testing: the Delayed damage for Brimstone and Vitriolic bypassing fire/acid resistance is an engine bug. I'm not sure exactly why, but certain sources of damage resistance do not apply to delayed damage. Try it again with the Protection from Fire/Acid Scrolls, the "magical" ones that anyone can use, not the spell scroll, and the delayed damage will bypass that as well.
Not sure if I even can fix this on my end, even if I changed Brimstone and Vitriolic's delayed damage, there are still vanilla spells that would get by.
I could consolidate the bonus to counter proficiency with the enchantment bonus, eliminating the dual -5 to hits, so it would all just show up as an "ability bonus". So it would be: Base Thac0 - X to hit (3 + 1/essence) - Strength/Dexterity - Ability Bonus (3 + enchantment) + Proficiency Penalty
I came up with another idea to clean up the Thac0 display for the touch attacks, but its slightly drastic:
I could remove the Warlock's proficiency penalty for using non-proficient weapons. Proficiency for the Warlock would now only grant the extra .5APR at level 7 and 13 with that weapon. The "heavy" weapons that they cannot become proficient with would cause the same casting speed penalty to warlocks as shields, -3 for 1-handed, -5 for 2-handed, to offset no longer having a Thac0 penalty. Eldritch weapon and instant activated abilities still excluded. Which would show as: Base Thac0 - X to hit (3 + 1/essence) - Strength/Dexterity - Ability Bonus (enchantment)
Found the problem with Path of Shadows allowing attacks. Still not sure why you aren't being healed by it.
I'd go with the first option. Clarity is good, but not at the expense of the class mechanics. Perhaps you could make the enchantment bonus also be part of the 'X to hit' as one inclusive bonus, then explain how it is derived in the ability descriptions.
Some streamlining wouldn't hurt either. Maybe you could drop the enhancement altogether but make it +2 per essence? I think that would play out similarly.
See the Unseen: I still think a constant crit threat range buff is too much, so how about this: - Infravision gained passively for just knowing the invocation. - When activated, dispel invisibility and illusions as current, and grant a +X Crit Threat Range, until your next critical hit. The amount could scale(1-3) or be set(2). - Can still be activated at any time, ignoring spells per round, but is no longer instant-cast. Would have a short(2) cast time, and be hard-set(can't be increased or decreased).
Blast Thac0: Dropping the enchantment bonus and doing 2/essence would work well for the touch attacks, they really shouldn't have an enchantment level anyway, only the weapons should. Would just be: "Base" - "To Hit", 2/essence + proficiency offset - STR/DEX + Proficiency
AC thoughts: Ward: Base[9-3] +2 Bonus AC.
Dark Foresight: Base[5], +2 Bonus AC
Dark Discorporation: Immunity to Normal Weapons, Base[3], Dex set to 10. Mirror Image refresh, Level:Rounds[15:4, 20:3, 25:2, 30:1].
Noxious Wall - found the problem (immunity duration got increased along with the debuff duration)
Unseen: I don't really like this idea. It's actually better than a flat +1 for a ranged lock, but it would be crappy for a claw/glaive user, and with eldritch weapon it would just be annoying trying to use this and reactivate weapon everyone round. better to stick with +2 thac0 imo.
Blast thac0: Looks good.
Ward: 9-3 is an odd spread. What's the math there? Regardless I think this is a fine implementation.
Dark Foresight: Looks fine, although I can't imagine anyone benefiting from base AC 5 at that level.
Dark Discorporation: Setting base AC then penalizing dex seems arbitrary, but it certainly fixes the AC bloat from before. I'm wary of letting mirror image refreshes scale up that high; it pushes the problem out to ToB/HoF, but those game portions could still be crushed by it.
Dark Discorporation: Base:3 came from the 3.5 AC bonuses a Bat Swarm has(+4 size, +3 Dex) and the 2E 25 Dex bonus(-6). Its meant to represent their post-Dex AC, while preventing it from stacking with (most) worn armor, as a Shapechange should suppress such things. Mirror Image - the scaling can change, I just want it to remain meaningful in late ToB/HoF, since enemies still have a small chance to hit through the images.
Ward: The end result is the same as you suggested, but with 2 of it changed to Bonus AC instead of Base AC, so it can still provide something if worn armor surpasses it. 9:3 +2 = 7:1
Unseen: I will give it more thought tonight. Going to keep it simple an just do +2 Thac0. Also added low-level illusion dispelling.
@jemy000 sorry, yes. BGIIEE has so much broken from the last patch its just been so frustrating: APR won't work, non-decrementing innate abilities no longer work as they did, proficiencies won't work... Then I find more bugs that have always been: level 7 spells cannot be and prevent others from being restored, Critical Hit effects ignore their projectile/targeting. Its just something new every time I look.
BGIIEE only: Proficiency and APR are controlled by the base class, regardless of what the individual kit or multi-class allows, to the point of breaking character creation and preventing leveling up in an unmodded game. A stupid change implemented in the 1.3 BGIIEE patch, in that it was done to prevent players from making stupid mistakes... I could only get around both by giving the base cleric class access to all proficiencies and warrior APR(+.5 at levels 7 and 13). Proficiencies will remain limited to the base cleric class, but I am willing to at least make the APR change, if only because a non-kitted cleric cannot specialize, is entirely inferior to its kits, and it won't affect multi/dual classes. A warning of such will be added.
HLA's will be level 5 for now, since I cannot use the level 7 slots. Eventually they will switch with Darks at level 6.
I have uploaded a new build in the first post, along with descriptions for the HLA's. Dark discorporation was at [5:2] rounds when I made the build.
Having tons of fun with this kit but I noticed that there is no fell flight or demonic grace was it? the spiderstride is there but the other two are not available on level up ? am I the only person having this issue?
also I have a question as to how the "forget invocation" ability works..when I select it it says choose an invocation to forget but when I select one all it does is switch this as my active ability like normal. tried doing it on the actual spell page still wont work? what am I doing wrong? xD
@codybrown913 The difference between a Cleric and Druid base is primarily the experience table and racial restrictions. As a druid it was leveling too fast, and could only be Human or Half-Elf. The Cleric also has one less quick-cast slot taken up by their unavailable Turn-undead button.
@Kai50 My apologies for Fell Flight and Demonic Grace, all the files for them are in the mod, but one file is not in the TP2 to be copied over, which is the spell to actually learn them. Manually copying the files "WRLKLNS8.SPL" and "WRLKLNG7.SPL" from the folder "INVOCATION_LEARN" to your override folder should enable you to select them.
Casting an invocation while the Forget ability is active is all you should need to do to select it, but you only have 2 rounds to cast it before the effect expires. If this isn't working can you give me any more details: - Does it not work for any invocation or just a certain one? - Do you still see Eldritch Blast, Blow, and Essence (the 3 you start with at level 1) in the select-spell spell-bar while it is active? - What level are you currently? The ability to change out invocations is shut off at level 22.
ahh thanks for the help! I worked out how to use the forget invocation so don't worry about it xD I have one more question.. so my plan was to build my warlock up in a way that he is basically immune to his own aoe spells like the acidy grease spell and the tentacles so I figured having resistances to acid and cold so I could cast em both without worrying about taking to much damage and then having spiderstride or upgrades active so I am able to move about freely with in them to wreak havoc :P seems the grease effect still takes effect regardless though. is that supposed to happen? is it something the upgrades can by pass or is it a glitch?
@Kai50 Spiderstride is only effective against the vanilla spells Web, Grease, and Entangle, and some webbing ability used by certain spiders. It is meant to provide physical mobility against such obstacles, not magical protection from them. Fell flight would be the same, with the immunities it provides making up for flight not being possible in this game. Demonic Grace is the one to provide a true magical protection against such effects, similar to the Free-Action spell.
It should function as such: Spiderstride < Caustic Mire < Fell Flight/Demonic Grace Caustic Mire isn't a matter of losing your footing because its slippery, but of losing your feet entirely as they melt off.
Spiderstride/Fell Flight < Chilling Tentacles < Demonic Grace Chilling tentacles is supposed to represent a grappling attack from a creature your size, not really the entangling effect that you see. Though maybe it should not attack the caster(I think I tried this behavior before but couldn't get it working correctly due to how it selects targets).
The damage from each is not prevented by any of them, though perhaps I should change this for Fell Flight. It does make sense for it to protect from the acid and cold damage in these cases.
The Free-Action spell should work against both as well, again excluding the damage. I can't comment about items that say they grant free-action, since they are not consistent in what they protect against.
Ok so one thing I have found is that the warlock's melee capabilities are far superior to his magic. I assume you know but the THACO bonuses of see the unseen and dark foresight stack..so that's -6 THACO use that with the claws and an essence and he absolutely wrecks havoc! its a bit broken you might want to consider not letting them stack so you have one at low level and than the other at high levels. it sort of makes the rest of his magic and abilities redundant cause they don't do nearly as much damage.
@kjeron Hey it's been awhile! Hope you're still around. I didn't check in on this forum for quite awhile after progress on the mod seemed to stall, but I see you've done some more work on it, which is great. With the expansion on the way I'm having fantasies of complete saga warlock playthrough. How are those HLAs doing? What else is new? I've got some free time in my schedule again so if you want more help with testing just let me know!
@jemy000 The HLA's are all in and all function as far as I know. I don't have any plans, or ideas really, for this mod right now, at least until a new patch comes out - I would still like to get it properly functional for both BG:EE and BG2:EE. I don't feel it is finished - it at least still needs some polishing, but I would also like to see what new options SoD will add for modding before I start making changes.
I have been learning Dialog, which I may switch the invocation selection process to use, as it is far more controllable than a select-spell, and could cut down on the file-count, but again it would require one of the new script triggers that is not in BG:EE yet.
@jemy000 sorry, yes. BGIIEE has so much broken from the last patch its just been so frustrating: APR won't work, non-decrementing innate abilities no longer work as they did, proficiencies won't work... Then I find more bugs that have always been: level 7 spells cannot be and prevent others from being restored, Critical Hit effects ignore their projectile/targeting. Its just something new every time I look.
BGIIEE only: Proficiency and APR are controlled by the base class, regardless of what the individual kit or multi-class allows, to the point of breaking character creation and preventing leveling up in an unmodded game. A stupid change implemented in the 1.3 BGIIEE patch, in that it was done to prevent players from making stupid mistakes... I could only get around both by giving the base cleric class access to all proficiencies and warrior APR(+.5 at levels 7 and 13). Proficiencies will remain limited to the base cleric class, but I am willing to at least make the APR change, if only because a non-kitted cleric cannot specialize, is entirely inferior to its kits, and it won't affect multi/dual classes. A warning of such will be added.
HLA's will be level 5 for now, since I cannot use the level 7 slots. Eventually they will switch with Darks at level 6.
I have uploaded a new build in the first post, along with descriptions for the HLA's. Dark discorporation was at [5:2] rounds when I made the build.
Hi , big fan of your work kjeron, btw.
I just spend more than 30 hours googling and toying with Near Infinity to make the kit work on BG2EE, based on your info in the quote above. But so far , i did not managed it. Nor did any weapon prof. mod helped to bypass the character creation crash.
I had Ascension installed, so after first attempt i uninstalled it and proceeded to apply the warlock on clean game.
I can see this thread is for ppl who have some know-how in the editing. But i am not one of them unfortunately. Could your PLEASE tell me HOW, step by step did you "get around both by giving the base cleric class access to all proficiencies and warrior APR(+.5 at levels 7 and 13) " ? ( I assume you did it in Near Infinity or some other editor.)
I just spend more than 30 hours googling and toying with Near Infinity to make the kit work on BG2EE, based on your info in the quote above. But so far , i did not managed it. Nor did any weapon prof. mod helped to bypass the character creation crash.
I had Ascension installed, so after first attempt i uninstalled it and proceeded to apply the warlock on clean game.
I can see this thread is for ppl who have some know-how in the editing. But i am not one of them unfortunately. Could your PLEASE tell me HOW, step by step did you "get around both by giving the base cleric class access to all proficiencies and warrior APR(+.5 at levels 7 and 13) " ? ( I assume you did it in Near Infinity or some other editor.)
Big Thanks in advance.
@jakub86 First, I am sorry for the frustration and confusion, that post of mine was mostly me ranting from my own frustration do to learning about these very issues, but I think you misunderstood me - in the end I had to give up, there is no real fix, at least for Proficiencies. The APR change is already in the mod, it shouldn't require anything else.
I did not feel changing the base Cleric's proficiencies was something I should be doing within the scope of this mod, and could not get around the issue otherwise. The mod should not break at character creation as is though, it should just limit the Warlock to use the Cleric's proficiencies. If it was breaking at character creation before you made any alterations, that is a problem I am unaware of.
The only file that needs to be edited to allow the Warlock the same proficiencies as in IWDEE, is "WEAPPROF.2DA". The column's "CLERIC", "TALOS", "HELM", "LATHANDAR" and "WARLOCK" need to have their "0"'s replaced with "1"'s for any weapon you want them to allow proficiency. Each of these columns has to be the same though, which is why there is no perfect fix, either they all have Cleric proficiencies, or they all have Warlock proficiencies. - You can ignore the first 8 proficiency rows(old BG1 system) as well as the last 19 proficiency rows(EXTRA##), as they are not used. - You will also need to change the Columns of any other mod-added Cleric kits to match. - This does not change what weapons Cleric's and their kits can use, it will only allow them to take a (wasted) proficiency in them. This is why I accepted the loss and left them with Cleric Proficiences for BG2EE, as any other Cleric Kits would have to use the same Proficiencies as the Warlock or change the Proficiencies of all Cleric kits(the warlock included) added before them to match their own.
I hate having to offer this as a solution, but using EEKeeper to change your Proficiencies after leveling up and avoiding this mess entirely is the best option there is until this engine bug gets fixed, hopefully in the next patch, whenever that may be...
PS: I have never used Ascension, and as such do not know exactly what changes it makes, but my understanding is that it mostly adds plot-changes, which should not inherently have compatibility issues with this mod. But if you run into any let me know and I will try to solve them.
Hey, just wana report success . - The key mistake on my part was, that i only edited the proficiencies solely on "CLERIC" and "WARLOCK" ( skipped the cleric kits)
- also i had to repatch mi game version beforehand (Warlock mod had obvious conflict with my older game version, so i bumped it to the 1.3)
P.S. - As you mentioned , you do not know how does the Warlock Mod fair in the Ascension (i know there is the feature at last bossfight in TOB to refresh/renew the spells and innate abilities) , so i will post any major issues in corelation with the Ascension content in the future, if you wish.
Comments
You could go with the monk solution, ie grant the class haste immunity as an ability, but as you said it isn't an elegant solution. Unfortunately I can't think of a better one.
The entropic graphic definitely needs a change. Making it persistent could be neat, but the sphere is rather obtrusive so it may get tiresome. I like having shinies on my characters but I know some people find the cloak of mirroring obnoxious. Can you change the color of the graphic?
I think you should disable single weapon style with claw and glaive if possible. Along with preventing their use with shields this gets them close enough to the intended weapon style.
Maximize and enlarge chain are good options, and more interesting than +APR. They both look appealing so it makes for a good choice.
Plague- the new functionality sounds good.
Still haven't gotten back to testing unfortunately. I won't be able to tomorrow but Saturday looks promising.
I had the immunity duration scale down for each successive target, to help alleviate some of this. With the fewer targets, I could probably start it at 3 seconds instead of a full round.
Entropic - I will set it to constant for now. It is the graphic for IWD's Protection from Normal Missiles, which lasts 1 turn/level, so I guess your expected to endure it for a long time in the normal game already.
Found the setting for Claws to not get Single Weapon Style bonus, it removes the "dagger" animation and makes their attack appear unarmed, but that will have to be an acceptable loss.
Eldritch Glaive- Doesn't add any blast damage or essence effects for me. Also, there's a typo in the description where the ability refers to itself as Claw. I expected this to have the SWS proficiency problem like Claw, but it doesn't. Is the glaive it creates actually a 2H weapon?
Eldritch Ward- Isn't being dispelled by switching blast types, and in fact doesn't seem to be removable at all. My lock could stack all the defensive bonuses by switching essences and recasting. The AC bonus doesn't get a listing on the Record sheet.
Permeating Blast- When used with Chain the blast can still damage the warlock. I'm actually not sure if this is a bug. The description is a bit unclear. Also, while not really a problem, it's a bit odd that this essence lists how it interacts with Eldritch Ward but none of the others do.
Brimstone Blast- The burning isn't prevented by fire resistance.
Voracious Dispelling- In the description the word targets needs an apostrophe before the s.
Dead Walk- This can still summon a horde of skeletons.
Charm- When I cast this on a townsperson a message popped up saying townsperson unaffected but the charm still worked. I was able to charm the same person repeatedly.
Stony Grasp- I think the damage on this one is a bit high too. Maybe make it 1d6+3, or 2d6. The saving throw entry in the description says Partial, but I think it should be Negates.
When selecting the warlock's elemental resistance at level 10 I only get to select one element but the class description says I choose two.
I was also thinking about the See the Unseen ability and I think its bonus is too good for a least invocation, compared to similar level abilities like Bless and Chant. I'd give +1 to thac0 and AC or +2 to only thac0. Or something else that could be neat is if it were reworked to give +1 crit range instead.
Ward, Glaive, Charm, L10 Elemental Resistance - Fixing...
Glaive is a 2-handed weapon, so it will automatically get benefits for 2-handed weapon style. Part of why it is at the lesser tier instead of a least with Claw.
Permeating - The secondary hits are meant to be able to damage the Warlock, only the initial target should not backfire.
Since Permeating had a different effect for each shape, I just listed them all. But your right it would be good for all of them to list their separate effects for Ward.
Stony Grasp - 2d6 damage it is. Yes the partial should be negates.
See Unseen - I'll drop it to +1/+1, a crit range buff might be too much.
Dead Walk - I will probably have to do the same thing I did with the HLA summon, and have it kill any existing when it is cast.
Brimstone Blast - That can't be right, fire resistance isn't reducing the delayed damage?
Lesser:
Eldritch Chain- I noticed after my last post that casting Eldritch Chain while it is already active doesn't dispel it as the other blast abilities do.
Greater:
Chilling Tentacles- There's no notification when someone fails a save. Also, very pleased with how you sorted the layering issues of this and other aoe invocations. I was worried that would be an ongoing problem.
Devour Magic- In the description it's still called a touch attack but it is ranged now. My lock was not getting healed by this. (I tried dispelling warlock and cleric buffs)
Noxious Blast- For some reason when used with the wall blast shape this will only apply the poison damage once even if the target stays in the wall for several rounds. Fire damage recurs normally. No other blast essence duplicated the problem.
Dark:
Path of Shadows- Still doesn't heal. Shadowed characters can't cast spells, but they can still attack which obviously makes spamming this OP.
Dark Discorporation- Love the bat graphics. Got the attack to work. But the constant mirror image is definitely over the top. There is some obvious and very potent synergy with Eldritch Ward. It needs a nerf, which I'll discuss more below.
Dark Foresight- I wasn't able to test the time stop immunity, but the other parts work fine. The AC bonus doesn't show up in the list of AC modifiers on the inventory page... however with the other changes made to the class I don't like this ability having a base AC boost. It overlaps (and probably makes worthless) the new armor abilities.
This all brings us to a topic that came to mind a lot while testing, which is the warlock's ability to achieve some ridiculous AC levels. My high level lock achieved AC -6 naked using Dark Foresight and See the Unseen, -8 with Eldritch Ward. Retributive Invis effectively brings that to -12. Dark Discorporation's Dex boost brings it to -14 plus infinite mirror images. Combined with their ability to wear any gear they could handily surpass fighter/mages as the ultimate tank, and not even have to bother prebuffing. To bring them back to earth I think they should get the following changes:
See the Unseen- Remove the AC boost. Make it just boost thac0 or give the crit boost as I discussed before.
Eldritch Ward- Instead of AC 7 + 1 per blast die make it AC 6 +1 per 2 blast dice. This makes it top out at AC 1, equivalent to full plate, which is still plenty powerful for a lesser invocation.
Dark Discorporation- Remove the dex boost completely. Make mirror images refresh less frequently, perhaps every 5 rounds.
Dark Foresight- Remove the base AC bonus, instead give it a +2 AC boost. I think this will be reasonable for a dark ability but not too good with the other abilities getting changed.
Appendix: ranged lock's thac0 breakdown
I'm trying to figure out what is going on with the thac0 for eldritch blast and chain, and it is convoluted.
Base THAC0: 6 ok
to hit: -6 bonus based on essences known we discussed?
dex mod: -2 ok
eldritch chain: -5 enhancement bonus that was added?
ability bonus: -3 is this an offset for the proficiency penalty?
proficiencies: +3 so the warlock is penalized for not being proficient with blast?
eldritch chain to hit: -5 what's this?
It's hard to tell, but I think at least one of these bonuses isn't supposed to be here. It'd be nice if there were some explanation of the various thac0 mods in the blast and chain ability descriptions.
AC boosts: I think this is another 3e->2e conversion issue, where 3e goes uncapped and 2e start to plateau, so I will re-evaluate.
Base AC bonus will not show up visually except for the final value for any source that is not equipped.
The mess of values in the Thac0 box are as you suspect:
The 2x: Eldritch Chain: -5's are both the inherit to-hit bonus from the Enchantment level. I do not know why it shows it twice, but only one is applied. Works for some vanilla items like this as well.
The Proficiency penalty/boost is to cancel the other out, and stop APR increases.
Not sure if I even can fix this on my end, even if I changed Brimstone and Vitriolic's delayed damage, there are still vanilla spells that would get by.
So it would be:
Base Thac0
- X to hit (3 + 1/essence)
- Strength/Dexterity
- Ability Bonus (3 + enchantment)
+ Proficiency Penalty
I came up with another idea to clean up the Thac0 display for the touch attacks, but its slightly drastic:
I could remove the Warlock's proficiency penalty for using non-proficient weapons.
Proficiency for the Warlock would now only grant the extra .5APR at level 7 and 13 with that weapon.
The "heavy" weapons that they cannot become proficient with would cause the same casting speed penalty to warlocks as shields, -3 for 1-handed, -5 for 2-handed, to offset no longer having a Thac0 penalty. Eldritch weapon and instant activated abilities still excluded.
Which would show as:
Base Thac0
- X to hit (3 + 1/essence)
- Strength/Dexterity
- Ability Bonus (enchantment)
Found the problem with Path of Shadows allowing attacks. Still not sure why you aren't being healed by it.
Still looking at AC.
Some streamlining wouldn't hurt either. Maybe you could drop the enhancement altogether but make it +2 per essence? I think that would play out similarly.
I still think a constant crit threat range buff is too much, so how about this:
- Infravision gained passively for just knowing the invocation.
- When activated, dispel invisibility and illusions as current, and grant a +X Crit Threat Range, until your next critical hit. The amount could scale(1-3) or be set(2).
- Can still be activated at any time, ignoring spells per round, but is no longer instant-cast. Would have a short(2) cast time, and be hard-set(can't be increased or decreased).
Blast Thac0:
Dropping the enchantment bonus and doing 2/essence would work well for the touch attacks, they really shouldn't have an enchantment level anyway, only the weapons should.
Would just be:
"Base"
- "To Hit", 2/essence + proficiency offset
- STR/DEX
+ Proficiency
AC thoughts:
Ward: Base[9-3] +2 Bonus AC.
Dark Foresight: Base[5], +2 Bonus AC
Dark Discorporation: Immunity to Normal Weapons, Base[3], Dex set to 10.
Mirror Image refresh, Level:Rounds[15:4, 20:3, 25:2, 30:1].
Noxious Wall - found the problem (immunity duration got increased along with the debuff duration)
Blast thac0: Looks good.
Ward: 9-3 is an odd spread. What's the math there? Regardless I think this is a fine implementation.
Dark Foresight: Looks fine, although I can't imagine anyone benefiting from base AC 5 at that level.
Dark Discorporation: Setting base AC then penalizing dex seems arbitrary, but it certainly fixes the AC bloat from before. I'm wary of letting mirror image refreshes scale up that high; it pushes the problem out to ToB/HoF, but those game portions could still be crushed by it.
Mirror Image - the scaling can change, I just want it to remain meaningful in late ToB/HoF, since enemies still have a small chance to hit through the images.
Ward: The end result is the same as you suggested, but with 2 of it changed to Bonus AC instead of Base AC, so it can still provide something if worn armor surpasses it. 9:3 +2 = 7:1
Unseen: I will give it more thought tonight. Going to keep it simple an just do +2 Thac0. Also added low-level illusion dispelling.
For Dark Discorporation I think maxing out at a 3 round refresh would be good.
BGIIEE has so much broken from the last patch its just been so frustrating: APR won't work, non-decrementing innate abilities no longer work as they did, proficiencies won't work...
Then I find more bugs that have always been: level 7 spells cannot be and prevent others from being restored, Critical Hit effects ignore their projectile/targeting.
Its just something new every time I look.
BGIIEE only:
Proficiency and APR are controlled by the base class, regardless of what the individual kit or multi-class allows, to the point of breaking character creation and preventing leveling up in an unmodded game. A stupid change implemented in the 1.3 BGIIEE patch, in that it was done to prevent players from making stupid mistakes...
I could only get around both by giving the base cleric class access to all proficiencies and warrior APR(+.5 at levels 7 and 13).
Proficiencies will remain limited to the base cleric class, but I am willing to at least make the APR change, if only because a non-kitted cleric cannot specialize, is entirely inferior to its kits, and it won't affect multi/dual classes. A warning of such will be added.
HLA's will be level 5 for now, since I cannot use the level 7 slots. Eventually they will switch with Darks at level 6.
I have uploaded a new build in the first post, along with descriptions for the HLA's.
Dark discorporation was at [5:2] rounds when I made the build.
The difference between a Cleric and Druid base is primarily the experience table and racial restrictions. As a druid it was leveling too fast, and could only be Human or Half-Elf. The Cleric also has one less quick-cast slot taken up by their unavailable Turn-undead button.
@Kai50
My apologies for Fell Flight and Demonic Grace, all the files for them are in the mod, but one file is not in the TP2 to be copied over, which is the spell to actually learn them. Manually copying the files "WRLKLNS8.SPL" and "WRLKLNG7.SPL" from the folder "INVOCATION_LEARN" to your override folder should enable you to select them.
Casting an invocation while the Forget ability is active is all you should need to do to select it, but you only have 2 rounds to cast it before the effect expires.
If this isn't working can you give me any more details:
- Does it not work for any invocation or just a certain one?
- Do you still see Eldritch Blast, Blow, and Essence (the 3 you start with at level 1) in the select-spell spell-bar while it is active?
- What level are you currently? The ability to change out invocations is shut off at level 22.
Spiderstride is only effective against the vanilla spells Web, Grease, and Entangle, and some webbing ability used by certain spiders. It is meant to provide physical mobility against such obstacles, not magical protection from them. Fell flight would be the same, with the immunities it provides making up for flight not being possible in this game. Demonic Grace is the one to provide a true magical protection against such effects, similar to the Free-Action spell.
It should function as such:
Spiderstride < Caustic Mire < Fell Flight/Demonic Grace
Caustic Mire isn't a matter of losing your footing because its slippery, but of losing your feet entirely as they melt off.
Spiderstride/Fell Flight < Chilling Tentacles < Demonic Grace
Chilling tentacles is supposed to represent a grappling attack from a creature your size, not really the entangling effect that you see. Though maybe it should not attack the caster(I think I tried this behavior before but couldn't get it working correctly due to how it selects targets).
The damage from each is not prevented by any of them, though perhaps I should change this for Fell Flight. It does make sense for it to protect from the acid and cold damage in these cases.
The Free-Action spell should work against both as well, again excluding the damage. I can't comment about items that say they grant free-action, since they are not consistent in what they protect against.
I don't have any plans, or ideas really, for this mod right now, at least until a new patch comes out - I would still like to get it properly functional for both BG:EE and BG2:EE. I don't feel it is finished - it at least still needs some polishing, but I would also like to see what new options SoD will add for modding before I start making changes.
I have been learning Dialog, which I may switch the invocation selection process to use, as it is far more controllable than a select-spell, and could cut down on the file-count, but again it would require one of the new script triggers that is not in BG:EE yet.
I just spend more than 30 hours googling and toying with Near Infinity to make the kit work on BG2EE, based on your info in the quote above. But so far , i did not managed it. Nor did any weapon prof. mod helped to bypass the character creation crash.
I had Ascension installed, so after first attempt i uninstalled it and proceeded to apply the warlock on clean game.
I can see this thread is for ppl who have some know-how in the editing. But i am not one of them unfortunately. Could your PLEASE tell me HOW, step by step did you "get around both by giving the base cleric class access to all proficiencies and warrior APR(+.5 at levels 7 and 13) " ? ( I assume you did it in Near Infinity or some other editor.)
Big Thanks in advance.
First, I am sorry for the frustration and confusion, that post of mine was mostly me ranting from my own frustration do to learning about these very issues, but I think you misunderstood me - in the end I had to give up, there is no real fix, at least for Proficiencies. The APR change is already in the mod, it shouldn't require anything else.
I did not feel changing the base Cleric's proficiencies was something I should be doing within the scope of this mod, and could not get around the issue otherwise. The mod should not break at character creation as is though, it should just limit the Warlock to use the Cleric's proficiencies. If it was breaking at character creation before you made any alterations, that is a problem I am unaware of.
The only file that needs to be edited to allow the Warlock the same proficiencies as in IWDEE, is "WEAPPROF.2DA". The column's "CLERIC", "TALOS", "HELM", "LATHANDAR" and "WARLOCK" need to have their "0"'s replaced with "1"'s for any weapon you want them to allow proficiency. Each of these columns has to be the same though, which is why there is no perfect fix, either they all have Cleric proficiencies, or they all have Warlock proficiencies.
- You can ignore the first 8 proficiency rows(old BG1 system) as well as the last 19 proficiency rows(EXTRA##), as they are not used.
- You will also need to change the Columns of any other mod-added Cleric kits to match.
- This does not change what weapons Cleric's and their kits can use, it will only allow them to take a (wasted) proficiency in them.
This is why I accepted the loss and left them with Cleric Proficiences for BG2EE, as any other Cleric Kits would have to use the same Proficiencies as the Warlock or change the Proficiencies of all Cleric kits(the warlock included) added before them to match their own.
I hate having to offer this as a solution, but using EEKeeper to change your Proficiencies after leveling up and avoiding this mess entirely is the best option there is until this engine bug gets fixed, hopefully in the next patch, whenever that may be...
PS: I have never used Ascension, and as such do not know exactly what changes it makes, but my understanding is that it mostly adds plot-changes, which should not inherently have compatibility issues with this mod. But if you run into any let me know and I will try to solve them.
- The key mistake on my part was, that i only edited the proficiencies solely on "CLERIC" and "WARLOCK" ( skipped the cleric kits)
- also i had to repatch mi game version beforehand (Warlock mod had obvious conflict with my older game version, so i bumped it to the 1.3)
P.S. - As you mentioned , you do not know how does the Warlock Mod fair in the Ascension (i know there is the feature at last bossfight in TOB to refresh/renew the spells and innate abilities) , so i will post any major issues in corelation with the Ascension content in the future, if you wish.