Devs -- Please restore spell 'Emotion'
killerrabbit
Member Posts: 402
Dear devs,
Please restore the Bioware version of the spell 'Emotion'. Enemies should remain prone for the duration of the spell. The current version of the spell is now weaker than 'Hold Person'.
From http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Emotion-Hopelessness
Emotion-Hopelessness is a 4th wizard enchantment spell which causes victims to lie down where they stand and cease any movement as effect of losing the will to live if the save vs. spell, fails in their favor.
This spell has a second effect; it instills courage in the caster, restoring lost morale and removing fear effects as well as preventing them from working on the caster for as long as the spell lasts. Magic resistance and other such things affects this part of the spell.
Please restore the Bioware version of the spell 'Emotion'. Enemies should remain prone for the duration of the spell. The current version of the spell is now weaker than 'Hold Person'.
From http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Emotion-Hopelessness
Emotion-Hopelessness is a 4th wizard enchantment spell which causes victims to lie down where they stand and cease any movement as effect of losing the will to live if the save vs. spell, fails in their favor.
This spell has a second effect; it instills courage in the caster, restoring lost morale and removing fear effects as well as preventing them from working on the caster for as long as the spell lasts. Magic resistance and other such things affects this part of the spell.
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Comments
Don't suggest that I should change the game via mods as I'm playing on ipad where modding is very difficult.
The best way for Beamdog to make the EEs a success is to make them a balanced and challenging series without the need for mods (though of course mods will always be a big part of the game).
Changing stuff like this a year or more after the game is released would just be bad form on their part. An adjustable change (via an ini file or in game setting) would be one thing, but given that this is a change that is not mentioned in the release notes, not mentioned in the spells description, and not mentioned in the manual it would not be a good idea to proceed with it as it currently stands (its bound to upset people when people just want their games to be patched for bugs, without new inconsistencies being created between spells and their descriptions). Same goes for backporting this into BGEE in a future patch.
Just use Confusion instead, it's a much more balanced spell for the level as enemies will still hit back.
End of the day there are just too many spells in BG which make other spells completely obsolete.
This is a sensible change that will make the game better and more balanced overall and that's a good thing for new players unfamiliar with the franchise.
Veterans who like it the old way can mod their game. New players on tablets can't. Think about the bottom line.
Apparently enemies wake up when they are hit. Is this the same with the sleep spell? I think sleeping enemies should wake when you hurt them, but emotion spell is a much more powerful effect:they are weeping and crying in terror, curled up like a fetus, on the floor. If you hit such a hopeless person he should not just stand up and fight back.
If they want to change the balance of the game they should also first look at the things they introduced into the game, rather than changing the behaviour of spells as they have existed in the game for 14 years.
Changing spells so that their description is different than what it actually does is not good for either new players or veterans, and they still have shapeshift abilities whose descriptions are not correct (so adding to that pile doesn't help).
PC/Mac/Linux players who were looking for more difficulty could already mod their game (without affecting the gameplay of others), so changing spells so that they work differently is unnecessary there. Tablet users looking for more difficulty can already solo the game with a single class human thief with 3/9/3/3/3/3 for stats (or whatever challenging character they can think of). Nobody was ever forcing them to play a mage or to take this spell, and the only NPC's that start with it are Nalia and Neera (and even then its just their ToB creature files) so I'm not seeing why this needs to be changed for balance reasons.
I would welcome the same kind of change in BGEE sleep.
Regarding the spell changes, have they changed mordy sword to copy the effect of the icewind dale version?
Now, that would be a major change (from a very OP summon to a crappy spell).
Earthquake (SPPR702)
Dragon's Breath (SPWI922)
Comet (SPWI925) No its still the same old BG2 spell.
http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=26804
While I agree with the awaken-on-hit principle on sleep (but not Emotion), I suggest reverting the default behaviour by switching the param2 behavior (so that 0=do not awaken and 1=awaken on hit) and then patching the sleep spells to use the new behavior (param2 = 1). I think there are just far too many mods and other NPC-only spells (wingbuffet .spls for example) that use the "do not awaken on hit" behavior. As far as I know, it's only a handful of effects that would benefit from the awaken on hit behavior, and it's far easier IMO to go down that route than worrying about mod compatibility.
On the other hand I really welcome and appreciate the change for giving modders the option to use either behaviour.
Page 138 of the 2nd Edition AD&D Player's Handbook; top of the 1st column, 3rd paragraph of the spell description: "Slapping or wounding awakens affected creatures but normal noise does not. Awakening requires one entire round."
The Hopelessness effect - Page 157; top of the 1st column, 6th complete paragraph: "7. Hopelessness: The affected creatures submit to the demands of any opponent: surrender, get out, etc. Otherwise, the creatures are 25% likely to do nothing in a round, and 25% likely to turn back or retreat. It counters (and is countered by) hope."
The entire spell descriptions for context:
Sleep (Enchantment/Charm)
Range: 30 yards
Components: V, S, M
Duration: 5 rounds/level
Casting Time: 1
Area of Effect: Special
Saving Throw: None
When a wizard casts a sleep spell, he causes a comatose slumber to come upon one or more creatures (other than undead and certain other creatures specifically excluded from the spell’s effects). All creatures to be affected by the sleep spell must be within 30 feet of each other. The number of creatures that can be affected is a function of Hit Dice or levels. The spell affects 2d4 Hit Dice of monsters. Monsters with 4 + 3 Hit Dice (4 Hit Dice plus 3 hit points) or more are unaffected. The center of the area of effect is determined by the spellcaster. The creatures with the least Hit Dice are affected first, and partial effects are ignored.
For example, a wizard casts sleep at three kobolds, two gnolls, and an ogre. The roll (2d4) result is 4. All the kobolds and one gnoll are affected (1/2 + 1/2 + 1/2 + 2 = 3 1/2 Hit Dice). Note that the remainder is not enough to affect the last gnoll or the ogre.
Slapping or wounding awakens affected creatures but normal noise does not. Awakening requires one entire round. Magically sleeping opponents can be attacked with substantial bonuses (see Combat, page 90).
The material component for this spell is a pinch of fine sand, rose petals, or a live cricket.
Emotion (Enchantment/Charm)
Range: 10 yards/level
Components: V, S
Duration Special
Casting Time: 4
Area of Effect: 20-foot cube
Saving Throw: Neg.
When this spell is cast, the wizard can create a single emotional reaction in the subject creatures. The following are typical:
1. Courage: This emotion causes the creatures affected to become berserk, fighting with a +1 bonus to the attack dice, causing +3 points of damage, and temporarily gaining 5 hit points. The recipients fight without shield, and regardless of life, never checking morale. This spell counters (and is countered by) fear.
2. Fear: The affected creatures flee in panic for 2d4 rounds. It counters (and is countered by) courage.
3. Friendship: The affected creatures react more positively (e.g., tolerance becomes goodwill). It counters (and is countered by) hate.
4. Happiness: This effect creates joy and of a feeling of complacent well-being, adding +4 to all reaction rolls and making attack unlikely unless the creatures are subject to extreme provocation. It counters (and is countered by) sadness.
5. Hate: The affected creatures react more negatively (e.g., tolerance becomes negative neutrality). It counters (and is countered by) friendship.
6. Hope: The effect of hope is to raise morale, saving throw rolls, attack rolls, and damage caused by +2. It counters (and is countered by) hopelessness.
7. Hopelessness: The affected creatures submit to the demands of any opponent: surrender, get out, etc. Otherwise, the creatures are 25% likely to do nothing in a round, and 25% likely to turn back or retreat. It counters (and is countered by) hope.
8. Sadness: This creates unhappiness and a tendency toward maudlin introspection. This emotion increases chances of being surprised by -1 and adds +1 to initiative rolls. It counters (and is countered by) happiness.
All creatures in the area at the instant the spell is cast are affected unless successful saving throws vs. spell are made, adjusted for Wisdom. The spell lasts as long as the wizard continues to concentrate on projecting the chosen emotion. Those who fail the saving throw against fear must roll a new saving throw if they return to the affected area.
The relevant portion of Combat, page 90:
Table 51: COMBAT MODIFIERS
Situation Attack Roll Modifier
Attacker on higher ground +1
Defender invisible -4
Defender off-balance +2
Defender sleeping or held Automatic*
Defender stunned or prone +4
Defender surprised +1
Missile fire, long range -5
Missile fire, medium range -2
Rear attack +2
*If the defender is attacked during the course of a normal melee, the attack automatically hits and causes normal damage. If no other fighting is going on (i.e., all others have been slain or driven off), the defender can be slain automatically.
As for balance, there are still equally powrful alternatives around. All this change does is reducing choice.
There was no "coup de grace" rule in 2nd Edition. Sleep is still extremely powerful because it effectively allows for 2 rounds of attacks before the target can meaningfully react.
No other enemies fighting & asleep -> instant kill.
When I use sleep, it often affects all enemies anyway. If not, I kill all other enemies before going after the sleeping ones, anyway. Effectively the old sleep spell was a hell of a lot closer to the intent of the original 2nd edition rules. Especially since the one round rule to awake is also not correctly implemented.
but a simpler solution to make it morebalanced is just shortening the duration, for example 1 round +1 every three levels of caster
I thought and think that the 'don't awaken' was already weaker than the helpless enemy = instant kill. And for some reason armor class, damage reduction and like still protect the helpless opponent / npc. As it is, emotion is now weaker than hold person, confusion and chaos.
Each of the specialty wizards has its big spell (except diviner) and 'emotion' makes the enchanter a class worth playing.
And in any case, I'll take fun over balance any day -- the IWD versions of horrid wilting, sunbeam, Mordenkainen's Sword and the like are well balanced but the BG2 versions are a lot more fun. I've used this combo on dragons with a solo sorcerer: chain contingency-helpless with horrid wilting, mordenkainen's sword and fireshield. It worked and it was fun. Wouldn't work with the IWD versions of the spells.
If beamdog wants to nerf those spells it can -- but please retain the originals make the changes optional.