Skip to content

Kits for BG1 NPCs

MilesBeyondMilesBeyond Member Posts: 324
This is more of a hypothetical discussion, as AFAIK Beamdog isn't allowed to give BG1 NPCs kits, but so what?

If you could give kits to BG1 NPCs, which would you give them, and why?

Archer for Kivan, obviously. I'm just imagining him now, with GM in Longbows and Called Shots... It is beautiful.

I think Imoen would be fun as a Swashbuckler. Maybe cast Skie as an Assassin and Safana as a Bounty Hunter? I know Assassin doesn't really make sense for Skie, but at the same time, a noblewoman growing up in BG, her talents probably aren't going to lean towards disarming traps, if you know what I'm saying... Alora would be a straight thief, of course.

Any Paladin kit for Ajantis would work. BG1 NPC Project has him as a Cavalier but you could easily go with one of the other two. Undead Hunter would be of slightly limited use, but fun nonetheless.

Speaking of the BG1 NPC Project, they recast Xan as a Sorceror. A similar recasting that would be pretty awesome, I think, is Shar-Teel as a Barbarian.

Garrick as either a Skald or Blade would be fun to have around. I dunno for Eldoth

No Ranger kits really work for Minsc, though it's tempting to have him as a Stalker just for the silliness of Minsc backstabbing.

Kagain seems too relaxed to be a Berserker, but Khalid could possibly pass as a Kensai
«1345

Comments

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    I've said it before, and I'll say it a thousand times more: I'd make Xan a Kensai.

    I'd also probably make Minsc a full-fledged Berserker. Never really made sense as a Ranger to me.
  • MilesBeyondMilesBeyond Member Posts: 324
    Minsc as a Ranger is, I think, more of a history thing. At least, the message I always got from it was that he was once a reasonably wise, albeit incredibly strong, steward of nature who took a pretty bad blow to the head.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Aosaw said:

    I've said it before, and I'll say it a thousand times more: I'd make Xan a Kensai.

    I'd also probably make Minsc a full-fledged Berserker. Never really made sense as a Ranger to me.

    He's a Ranger because he actually IS a Ranger. He's based on one of the devs' tabletop characters, where he was a bloody Ranger.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    edited August 2012
    I'm just saying that he never made sense as a ranger based on his personality in the game itself. Xan's "mageyness" is the sole result of the developers realizing that they needed another mage in the game, and even his equipment would make more sense if he were a warrior of some kind. It was an afterthought change after the dialogue had been written and voiced.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    I would probably have Safana as a swashbuckler.

    Imoen... I don't see any of the kits fitting her. She starts a thief because of innocent mischief, she didn't train to be a rogue it kind of happenned to her. Her true talent is wizardry I think. She just didn't happen to have an older mage notice it soon enough and her natural curiosity and intelligence led her to learn how to detect alarms (traps) and pick locks.

    Kivan is an archer, haven't played him as anything else since I started using BGT.

    Ajantis makes sense as a Cavalier or pure Paladin given his noble background.

    Montaron should be an Assassin.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Aosaw said:

    I'm just saying that he never made sense as a ranger based on his personality in the game itself.

    I don't see how. Explain.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389


    He's a Ranger because he actually IS a Ranger. He's based on one of the devs' tabletop characters, where he was a bloody Ranger.

    While this is true, people forget Barbarians as we know them as their own class didn't exist in AD&D. They were a 3e invention (or at the very least not a core class for AD&D). 3e went live shortly after BG1 came out if I remember right, so they decided to add bastardized versions into BG2. If he's any "kit," he's not even a ranger. I mean, he has berzerk ffs. He's a warrior from Rasheman who has a witch. Go read the lore of any Forgotten Realms manual and you'll see the warriors that protect Rashimi witches are pretty much to a man Barbarians.

    Basically what I'm saying is if they re-kit Minsc, Barbarian is the way to go.

    Personally I've done the following using hacks and editors:
    - Kivan as an Archer
    - Ajantis as a Cavalier
    - Garrick as a Jester
    - Branwen as a level 2 fighter dual-classed into Cleric
    - Dynaheir as a Diviner (occasionally I straight up turn her into a Cleric to dual-class into a mage when I feel like being a major Forgotten Realms nerd)
    - Faldorn as an Avenger

    None of the other characters really struck me as being the type of person that really fit any of the kits from a personality standpoint. Shar-Teel as a berzerker, maybe? If they added in more Cleric kits and made a special one of Shar for Viconia or Tempus for Branwen, that'd be cool. I can see a few of the guys who are multi-classed warranting a kit from a personality stand point (Assassin for Montaron, Swashbuckler for Coran) but that'd be fudging with the rules.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    Yeah, I remember thinking about this concept. It's too bad they aren't going to do this. I will probably mod this myself, seems like an easy task.

    Kivan as an Archer is an obvious and beautiful choice. It would work.
    And as far as the thieves go, it's brilliant. I mean there are so many damn thieves in BG1, that adding kits really would throw a wrench in things and make it totally interesting. No longer would Safana, Skie, or Alora be redundant because of the OP-ness that is Imoen! Different kits give you different choices. Plus, personally, I always found the thief kits to all have very, very interesting trade-offs and different tactics indeed. Thief kits seem to be done the best.
    And as far as other NPCs being passable because they have bad stats, once again, kits would make things interesting. Take Faldorn, Garrick, Eldoth for instance. sandmanCCL mentioned Faldorn as an Avenger, and that's a durn good idea.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447

    Aosaw said:

    I'm just saying that he never made sense as a ranger based on his personality in the game itself.

    I don't see how. Explain.
    @sandmanCCL kind of explained it for me, but to me, Minsc doesn't have any of the characteristics that mark him as a talented or skilled woodsman. He doesn't particularly care what enemies he fights, and his only connection to animals is a hamster, which he calls a "miniature giant space hamster". Those are the reasons why he doesn't make sense as a ranger to me.

    Why do I think he makes more sense as a Berserker? A few reasons. He's a talented warrior, in the vein of "Point me to the battle and I'll let my sword sort it out." He's a brute, and not only because of that bump to the head: his solution to every problem is "Let's bash their heads together".

    And he also has some serious anger management issues, which are pretty well summed up in the berserker's rage ability.

    It doesn't make sense for Minsc to be casting druid spells, even if you make the rather wild leap that he's inheriting the magic from Dynaheir (which would be a decent argument for making him dual-class at the beginning of BG2 as a mage, except that his Intelligence score is too low).

    He refers to himself as a ranger, so for continuity's sake I'm okay with him being a ranger. But if I'm thinking of kits and classes that make more sense? Berserker is a lot more fitting for Minsc than Ranger.
  • EpitomyofShynessEpitomyofShyness Member Posts: 113
    @Schneidend are you serious about Minsc being one of the Devs DnD characters? Cause if that's for real that is completely awesome.

    Back on subject, NPC's and kits! I will try to avoid mentioning kits introduced by mods, except where I feel it really adds something important (clerics). If I really don't think any changes should be made I'll list those people at the end, but if I can see an argument being made for a kit being added to a character I'll list that character and the kit others argue for.

    Ajantis - Works as a normal Paladin, but he could be a Cavalier.

    Branwen - With currently available kits she should remain a Cleric. However, Divine Remix has a Battleguard of Tempus kit, which I always use for her.

    Coran - As it stands I'd leave Coran as a Fighter/Thief, however one could argue for him being a Swashbuckler.

    Faldorn - I would make her an Avenger.

    Garrick - I would probably leave him as is, but one could argue for making him a Blade.

    Imoen - I would leave her as is (or use a mod kit), but I can easily see how one could argue for making her a Swashbuckler.

    Kivan - Archer obviously.

    Minsc - I love him as a Ranger, but many people have valid arguments for him being a Barbarian.

    Montaron - Could be left as is, but arguments could be made for making him an Assassin.

    Safana - I would leave her alone, but people could argue for Bounty Hunter.

    Shar-Teel - Beserker. I don't see her as a Barbarian.

    Viconia - As it is she should remain a Cleric, however Divine Remix has a Nightcloak of Shar kit I love. I always install it for her.

    Xan - Is complicated. I can see arguments for making him a Fighter/Mage (not a kit I know), or a Sorcerer. Personally I'd make him a Kensai/Mage (only possible with mods).

    The companions I'd leave as they are, are; Dynaheir, Edwin, Eldoth, Jaheira, Kagain, Khalid, Minsc, Quayle, Skie, Tiax (Tiax needs no kits to rule all!), Xzar, and Yeslick.
  • MilesBeyondMilesBeyond Member Posts: 324
    edited August 2012



    Personally I've done the following using hacks and editors:
    - Kivan as an Archer
    - Ajantis as a Cavalier
    - Garrick as a Jester
    - Branwen as a level 2 fighter dual-classed into Cleric
    - Dynaheir as a Diviner (occasionally I straight up turn her into a Cleric to dual-class into a mage when I feel like being a major Forgotten Realms nerd)
    - Faldorn as an Avenger

    None of the other characters really struck me as being the type of person that really fit any of the kits from a personality standpoint. Shar-Teel as a berzerker, maybe? If they added in more Cleric kits and made a special one of Shar for Viconia or Tempus for Branwen, that'd be cool. I can see a few of the guys who are multi-classed warranting a kit from a personality stand point (Assassin for Montaron, Swashbuckler for Coran) but that'd be fudging with the rules.

    Yeah, but a number of NPCs fudge the rules anyway, so no biggie. Fighter/Assassin for Monty would be amazing, though rather powerful.

    Faldorn as an Avenger is an amazing idea
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,344

    @Schneidend are you serious about Minsc being one of the Devs DnD characters? Cause if that's for real that is completely awesome.

    It's indeed true - as the story goes, it was beamdog's own @CameronTofer who played him, and then Lukas Kristjanson wrote the concept into the BG character.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    I believe the same thing applies to khalid which is why his scores are so low. He's another one that was a character lifted right from a campaign. I only mention this because I think I remember Trent talking about how that's why they refused to help Khalid out stat wise.
  • Son_of_ImoenSon_of_Imoen Member Posts: 1,806
    edited August 2012
    My favourite kits for NPC's are (not everyone I do mod though):

    Ajantis: Cavalier

    Alora: Swashbuckler (halflings don't put knives in someone's back in my world)

    Dynaheir: Sorceror (well, it's not a kit, put it's my favourite class for him)

    Khalid: Fighter/Mage (dito)

    Faldorn: Avenger

    Garrick: Skald

    Kivan: Archer

    Safana: Gypsy (Song and Silence kit)

    *edit: fun to see (but not surprising) more people made Faldorn into an Avenger. Very fitting for her personality, and an awesome kit.

  • pacekpacek Member Posts: 92
    edited August 2012
    More here ( @Tanthalas, work your mergy magic!)

    Across most of these posts there are a few very popular choices: Kivan as an archer, Safana as a swashbuckler (my personal favourite shoe-in), Faldorn as Avenger. My other personal preferences are in the link above.
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    Alora as swashbuckler is pretty wickedly overpowered.

    With 21 dex and bonuses from class she should have both enough AC and thac0 to tank like the best, not to say about her massive skill points and immunity to magic with items.

    my next game im planning to mod the game to relocate her to FAI, just to try it out. Seriosuly BG1 is awesome.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    Coming from Pen and Paper, Eldoth is a Charlatan. Shar-Teel Amazon (by attitude, not culture), Xan- Scholar (Demihuman of the Realms Kit), Dynaheir- Witch of Rashmen (Wizards and Rogues of the Realms kit), and Minsc is a Clan Warrior/Fang Berserker.
  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,498
    Limited kit selection for NPCs might make sense, after all we've all played these games alot and have strong ideas about how these guys work - within a certain tolerance, we don't play identically I'm sure.

    Taking @Son_of_Imoen's preferences as an example (they are right in front of me) Ajantis could be described as a cavalier in a sort of real world sense of being a courtly knight but nothing about him suggests demon/ dragon hunter, to me.

    Alora likes stealing things but not fighting, something that swashbucklers excel at, I'd keep her as a pure thief as she likes to sneak and nick other people's stuff.

    Faldorn is definitely an avenger

    I'd go with @MilesBeyond on Garrick being a Jester as he is already a fool.

    People always seem to talk of Kivan as an archer, he speaks like a marksman (Clint as a gunfighter) and has the best archer portrait there is. But, I just think archers are too strong.
  • CuanCuan Member Posts: 38
    The game gets a bit boring when every joinable NPC has a kit imo. If it was changed I would only like around 3/4 joinable NPC's to have a kit.

    I do think however that Xan should be and always have been a fighter/mage. His stats should remain as is.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited August 2012
    Assuming that the mod Level 1 NPCs gets updated for BG:EE, we will indeed be able to change their kits via that custom mod.

    I think I would have to have SCS installed before I would even consider doing something like this, as it could otherwise risk unbalancing the game. Even then I'd worry about balance.
  • JaxsbudgieJaxsbudgie Member Posts: 600
    edited August 2012


    Safana: Gypsy (Song and Silence kit)

    Ah-ha! I remember talking about this combo on the old forums. Best moment was having her cast invisibility and then enter the Cloakwood mines and watch all the bandits tear one another apart.
    Here are some of my guilty alterations ...

    I always enjoyed making Viconia either a Mage / Cleric or Thief / Cleric
    Garrick is definitely a Jester
    And Eldoth could be a Skald at a push
    Safana is definitely a Swashbuckler, her back story pretty much says so!
    I've made Skie a Swashbuckler before, which was great but not so great from a RP point of view
    Shar-Teel as a Beserker is great - although I am partial to leave her as a Fighter then dual her to Thief then mod her as an Assassin!
    Coran as a Bounty Hunter makes sense since his quest is to hunt down the wryverns
    I've made Xzar a Cleric / Necromancer before which was great fun
    Post edited by Jaxsbudgie on
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    @Aosaw

    Simply being from Rashemen and having traveled from Rashemen to the Sword Coast speaks plenty of his woodsman skills. It's not exactly civilized country over there. Almost every man that isn't a farmer would be expected to be able to hunt or survive in the wilderness, especially so for a member of a Berserker Lodge like Minsc, who must spend days at a time in the woods on vision quests and rites of passage like killing frost trolls and such.

    Granted, Minsc casting druid spells is a stretch, but a Rashemi berserker's rage is a form of magic in itself. In FR canon their rages make them appear larger and heats up the air around them. Truly masterful berserkers can turn into animals such as bears and giant falcons. Rashemi religion and folklore revolves around spirits, both of animals and natural phenomenon, so it does make some sense for him to know a bit of nature magic.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    @Scheidend

    Honestly, that first paragraph is a stronger argument for Minsc being a Barbarian than a Ranger. And in the second paragraph you call them berserkers... I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. ;)

    It would make more sense (and here I'm speaking as though we were designing the character from scratch, so suspend any preconceptions about Minsc having been a ranger already for the moment; I'm with you on that, but hear me out), for instance, to design the Berserker kit to fit the Rashemi traditions. "Berserker", after all, translates as "Bear Warrior"--it would be fitting, then, to give it some Wild Shape abilities in the mid- to high-level range, allowing Minsc, as a Berserker, to transform himself into a Bear.

    Maybe a Dire Bear. Rage plus wild shape is going to have some enhanced effects, I imagine. But looking at the character's personality, you kind of have to admit that Minsc in particular is a berserker first, and a ranger last. At best, he's a berserker with some non-weapon proficiencies in Animal Handling.

    I'm not saying he needs to be changed. I'm just saying, if I were to design him differently, that's what I'd do.
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    Minsc is not really a barbarian.. These guys are ferocious wild men, Minsc is more like intelligent( in his own way) woman caring(eek) soft-at-heart guy. :D /hides
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    That's kind of why I was calling for Berserker instead.
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,356
    edited August 2012
    These NPCs came immediately to mind:

    Ajantis: Cavalier (the quintessential knight of Helm)

    Branwen: Battleguard of Tempus (pretty obvious)

    Eldoth (Charlatan, although it's 3rd edition--Eldoth is so full of BS it's a joy to watch)

    Faldorn: Avenger (what better kit for a Shadow Druid -- I also think she should be Neutral Evil, especially given her role in BGII)

    Montaron: Assassin (psychopath for hire)

    Shar-Teel: Berserker (some people think Barbarian, but she's the daughter of Angelo of the Flaming Fist and wasn't raised in a Barbarian environment)

    Viconia: Nightcloak of Shar (pretty obvious)

    Yeslick: Alaghar (specialty priest) of Clangeddin (this would allow him to use axes)

    Too bad there won't be any mage kits for BG:EE beyond wild mages and specialty wizards. :_(
    Post edited by Mortianna on
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    Mortianna said:

    Too bad there won't be any kits for BG:EE beyond specialty wizards. :_(

    Uhh what. No, I'm almost completely sure they're adding all the kits from BGII, plus the Blackguard.
  • unfortunate_oneunfortunate_one Member Posts: 44
    Other than his great portrait, I don't think it is an obvious choice that Kivan should be an Archer. With his strength, dex and the BG2 ability to dual-wield, I'm pretty sure he might be the best tank in the game. I would still probably use the archer kit since all the other ranger kits stink.

  • MilesBeyondMilesBeyond Member Posts: 324
    Quartz said:

    Mortianna said:

    Too bad there won't be any kits for BG:EE beyond specialty wizards. :_(

    Uhh what. No, I'm almost completely sure they're adding all the kits from BGII, plus the Blackguard.
    Yeah, they'll be available for PCs but not NPCs (except new ones), so whether he's right or not depends on which of those he's referring to lol
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,356
    Quartz said:

    Mortianna said:

    Too bad there won't be any kits for BG:EE beyond specialty wizards. :_(

    Uhh what. No, I'm almost completely sure they're adding all the kits from BGII, plus the Blackguard.
    Oops, I was referring to *mage kits* and somehow left that part out. I guess there's the wild mage kit, but beyond that it's just the specialty wizards (Abjurer, Necromancer, etc.). I suppose I'm biased since I always play mages.

Sign In or Register to comment.