Blackguard Kit Details!

Schneidend

For those who didn't peruse the Reddit AMAA:

Well, a quick run down of the Blackguard is as follows:
Must be evil.
Immune to level drain and fear.
Can specialize in any weapon (2 slots)
Can use any armor, wear any armor
Absorb Health (Level 1) ability to heal self quickly: Absorbs 2hp from enemy per level of Blackguard. Save vs Magic.
Can Turn Undead (Rebuke) as Paladin of same level.
Can use poison weapon 1x every 5 levels.
Can use Aura of Despair. Once per day ability that varies with level: 2nd: Gives enemies -1 to hit, -1 to damage, +2 AC 6th: Gives enemies -2 to hit, -2 to damage, +2 to AC 15th: Gives enemies -4 to hit, -4 to damage, +4 to AC, causes Fear in enemies level 8 or below. 20th: Gives enemies -4 to hit, -4 to damage, +4 to AC, causes Fear in enemies level 18 or below.

It's not exactly what I wanted, but it is still pretty cool. Kind of wish you got more Aura of Despair uses per day as you leveled. Mostly, though, I hope you get Poison Weapon from level 1, to help with that pesky Mage at the Friendly Arm Inn!

Shin

Nice to get some info on them at last.

sandmanCCL

So no divine spellcasting?

Is it it's own class or is it a kit of fighter or paladin?

Schneidend

@sandmanCCL
Nay, no divine casting. It's a Fighter kit.

Silverstar

It's more or less exactly what -I- wanted, heh. Neither of the NWNs did Blackguard right; bad enough it was a prestige class with stealth requirement to unlock but it also didn't have turn undead or an inverse Lay on Hands. Would've liked divine spellcasting, but it isn't neccessary. Good job Overhaul!

Schneidend

I'm glad there's no divine spellcasting, myself. I virtually never use it on Minsc, anyway.

Silverstar

By the time rangers/paladins get their spells it's usually somewhat redundant anyway as the druid/cleric(s) in the party has ten times that amount of spells by then. So yeah, no major loss.

Dee

Where did you hear that it's a Fighter kit? I don't recall hearing anything one way or the other.

AzL0n

And... what's the downsides? Sounds OP to me. For the beginning that is. Very cool nonetheless.

Silverstar

Seems to be slight inconsistency actually as they also called it a paladin kit in one of the answers.

Scooter

Actually on the AMAA, I believe @TrentOster (I think? Or one of the devs) said it was a fighter kit, however later, on another question, @Coriander said it was a Paladin kit. So I dunno, I got a bit confused there

Dragonspear

Personally I used the divine spellcasting on my paladin rather frequently, especially after I lost my BG1 bhaalspawn powers. DUMH is always good times, and it allowed me to always have a death ward memorized specifically for my cavalier before headed into combat. Plus it was another Lesser Restoration.

I could see it being subpar on rangers though. They don't get the amazing that is DUHM and makes the entire thing worth it for a paladin. I seem to remember stalkers got some nice mage spells to make up for it though (including web I think).

Silverstar

Dragonspear said:

Personally I used the divine spellcasting on my paladin rather frequently, especially after I lost my BG1 bhaalspawn powers. DUMH is always good times, and it allowed me to always have a death ward memorized specifically for my cavalier before headed into combat. Plus it was another Lesser Restoration.

I could see it being subpar on rangers though. They don't get the amazing that is DUHM and makes the entire thing worth it for a paladin. I seem to remember stalkers got some nice mage spells to make up for it though (including web I think).

Oh having divine spellcasting would indeed be neat. However, I do not feel it's neccessary for the Blackguard (or paladin for that matter) to be a powerful and fun-to-play class. Would have been nice having for sure, but the kit is great as it is.

I was under the impression rangers and paladins got spellcasting at the same level, which is rather late in BG1... isn't that the case? Also, what is DUHM >.>

kiros

Schneidend said:

Immune to level drain and fear.

Prepare to die vampires!

Dragonspear

@Silverstar

Actually I think rangers get their spells 1 level earlier for some reason. I think they were both supposed to get them at level 9 but I think rangers started at level 8.

DUHM is the best level 2 cleric/paladin Spell for melee combat. Draw Upon Holy Might. for every 3 levels of the caster you gain +1 str, +1 Dex and +1 Con. I don't think it started calculating on paladin though until the actual level you got your spellcasting abilities. But even being able to get up to 23 str, dex and con in ToB was really nice for the duration of the buff which I seem to remember was rather significant......if you could make sure you didn't dispel it off yourself as you went after their casters.

Roller12

I like this class. Didnt go overboard with bonuses to score on the hype. Like the aura bonuses. but Fear is not a great effect to have. In fact its a pain in the behind if mobs are is running around. Could use more Auras/day too, seems rather weak now. Bards have a very similar ability but with unlimited uses.

Silverstar

Oh yes. The ridiculously powerful superman spell. Love that one too, especially the bhaalpower version. Not like we'd get access to it anyway though (in BG1) if Blackguard spell progression started at same time as paladins'.

Sceptenar

It looks a lot more like a paladin kit than a fighter kit to me.

Jean_Luc

Quite nice, would've liked a few more "evil" spells (or spell-like abilities) but the BG looks pretty neat. I wonder if he can get the HLA to summon a fallen deva/planetar.

CCarluNN

Aura of despair that affects those around the Blackguard, eh?

Plain bard: any radio pop song - go with the flow
Skald: Power Metal - to inspire
Jester: Weird Al Yankovic - to confuse
Blade: American Idol - not impressed
Blackguard: Doom Metal - FEAR ME!

Jean_Luc

Doom Metal is actually very melancholic with a slow tempo and while that is consistent with an "aura of despair" it doesn't exactly scream "FEAR ME!". It's more like "Be sad and despondent (while I kill you)". :P

Schneidend

Aosaw said:

Where did you hear that it's a Fighter kit? I don't recall hearing anything one way or the other.

He specifically mentioned that it did not get the Fighter's Grand Mastery, which would be obvious and not need to be mentioned if it were a Paladin kit, I would think. Also, I've never seen mods add Blackguards or Anti-Paladins as Paladin kits, only Fighter kits, so it might be a coding issue. Not sure.

Sceptenar said:

It looks a lot more like a paladin kit than a fighter kit to me.

See above. I think it's going to be under the Fighter heading. Probably Fighter Stronghold in BG2, as well.

AzL0n said:

And... what's the downsides? Sounds OP to me. For the beginning that is. Very cool nonetheless.

1. Must be Evil (lower starting Reputation and Reaction values)
2. Can only Specialize in Weapon Proficiencies, which means two pips versus the Fighter's five pips in a given proficiency.
3. Doesn't get divine spellcasting or the Paladin's +2 to all saving throws.
4. If it's classified as a Paladin kit, which is possible, it will level up more slowly than a Fighter.

Jean_Luc said:

Quite nice, would've liked a few more "evil" spells (or spell-like abilities) but the BG looks pretty neat. I wonder if he can get the HLA to summon a fallen deva/planetar.

That'd be neat, but I'll likely be focusing on the martial HLAs myself. I love Smite with all of my merciless heart!

Drugar

Schneidend said:

He specifically mentioned that it did not get the Fighter's Grand Mastery, which would be obvious and not need to be mentioned if it were a Paladin kit, I would think. Also, I've never seen mods add Blackguards or Anti-Paladins as Paladin kits, only Fighter kits, so it might be a coding issue. Not sure.

If it's a Paladin kit, Dorn wouldn't be able to choose it as only Humans can select the Paladin class (and its associated kits). Making the Paladin class available only so you can click Blackguard in the paladin kit section and no other options would be very user unfriendly and confusing to newcomers.
It makes more sense to keep it a fighter kit that every race can choose.

Roller12

Yes, it is interesting to see his exp progression. My take is, they will make him a completely separate pick, like a ranger.

moody_mage

Silverstar said:

It's more or less exactly what -I- wanted, heh. Neither of the NWNs did Blackguard right; bad enough it was a prestige class with stealth requirement to unlock but it also didn't have turn undead or an inverse Lay on Hands. Would've liked divine spellcasting, but it isn't neccessary. Good job Overhaul!

NWN2 Blackguards did have turn undead (gained at level 3), they also had some divine spells available to them (Bull's Strength, Contagion etc).

What would have been awesome for this kit is a summon undead ability.

What are the stat requirements - although a fighter kit will it be similar to paladin?

Silverstar

decado said:

Silverstar said:

It's more or less exactly what -I- wanted, heh. Neither of the NWNs did Blackguard right; bad enough it was a prestige class with stealth requirement to unlock but it also didn't have turn undead or an inverse Lay on Hands. Would've liked divine spellcasting, but it isn't neccessary. Good job Overhaul!

NWN2 Blackguards did have turn undead (gained at level 3), they also had some divine spells available to them (Bull's Strength, Contagion etc).

What would have been awesome for this kit is a summon undead ability.

What are the stat requirements - although a fighter kit will it be similar to paladin?

Ah, my bad. Never actually played a Blackguard in Neverwinter Nights (either of them) much, as I felt it was a hassle getting the required stealth on a warrior which made for the most logical class to start out with.

As for the mention of divine spells in my quote there I was refering to BG:EE's Blackguard rather than the Neverwinter one; I do remember the spells you were given at fixed levels. Still I think that was done in a poor fashion and would've much preferred a paladinish "spellbook" or blackguard spesific innate abilities rather than fixed spells at fixed levels that you can cast a fixed number of times.

It will be interesting to play BG:EE's Blackguard and equally interesting how it develops down the line; I imagine they will do more with the class when the next game rolls out.

moody_mage

If you ever played NWN2 with Kaedrin Prestige Class pack modded in then Blackguards did indeed have a spell list to choose from.

Ulfgar_Torunn

I like the concept, but I think that Poison Weapon may be a bit overpowered, as it lasts one round, not one attack. For a class getting 2.5 attacks per round this may be too much. This was a bug however, so it might be fixed come the 18th.

Other than that, this class seems reasonably close in power to the other fighter kits without sacrificing it's unique flavor and play style. I can't wait to see it in action.

Tr_ond

I`ll do my first evil play through of BG with this i think, killing time with an evil monk in NWN atm.

AHF

I'm hoping this is a Paladin kit not because I like the racial limitation but because I think with the immunity to level drain, the poison weapon ability, and the absorb health/aura abilities it would be overpowered leveling as a fighter. It should level on the same pace as the Cavalier, etc.

Ulfgar_Torunn is 100% right that poison weapon is very powerful in BG1 and still very useful in BG2/TOB (for those that have had access to it as an assassin with BGT, etc.).

shawne

Immunity to level drain???

*whistle* Heeere Bodhi, heeere Bodhi...