I don't remember having any trouble with them, I remember powerblasting the greater wolfwere with magic missiles & Khalid using Twinkle (I think) that worked fine.
Once back on the mainland - sword of balduran was enough. I never found that quest that challenging, always found Aec'Letec more so. Never paid much attention during that quest to be honest haha.
I think this forum needs to be directed back on to more important matters & by that I mean BG2 Tiax. The perfect addition for your evil party.
Save this for special occasions - use any item - black blade of disaster (scroll) + long sword in his off-hand + holy power + righteous magic + globe of blades + improved haste + assassination (+ stoneskin & mirror image if you'd like) = Tiax rules all!
I'd be okay without divine casting. Use Poison, Fear immunity, and the Aura of Despair are already really great. Just not sure what I'll do for sirines. Hrm.
If it is under the BG II system, it is no big deal it cannot get more weapon mastery. The poison and AC penalty they can induce (no save either) massively eclipse that. Also, the penalties to enemies hit and damage makes them more survivable. They would need to chose a "curse" or flaw from a list or something to balance them out. Right now they are fighters that deal more damage, take less damage, hit more often, get hit less, and have no real equipment restrictions. The life drain is neat, but it is not high enough damage to be conserned over. The undead help is damn handy, and everybody likes immunities. I'd even do one as an archer.
Cavaliers have more or less the same going for them and can still cast.
Unless they give the Blackguard more uses per day for his abilities, as he is now i don't see why he shouldn't be able to cast.
Inquisitor can't cast and do paladin stuff, but the guy has really strong powers for that and many times per day.
I think it's a given he will be able to cast, i've seen some wannabe Blackguard kits through mods, but they couldn't cast because they were fighter kits, and had the fighter interface (hardcoded and also the paladin was hardcoded to be good i think).
Honestly Mornmagor I'd be surprised if they got divine casting. The poison weapon (If it works like the assassins you basically never worry about a caster) and aura of fear combine for a very powerful class already.
If it bypasses protections from weapons maybe, but then the aura of despair would need to be used more times per day.
I agree @Dragonspear, that if tweaked properly, the guy doesn't need spellcasting.
For me, that is :
1) His absorb health ability, is a lay on hands that does damage too. But it has a save. If on save it fails, then it becomes a bit more problematic, since the aura of despair does not lower saves. This needs 3 things, more uses per day, or half damage even on save, or for the aura to affect saving throws as well.
2) Poison weapon, it's usable about 4 times at level 20. This seems powerful if used properly, but you'll need to bypass any protections to do damage, unless it bypasses them, on which case, it is indeed powerful enough.
3) Aura of despair. This needs more uses per day for sure. If you only just have it once, it's too limited. Also, fear doesn't always work as well, it makes you need to run around to catch the fleeing opponent, some times engaging even more enemies. Never mind that it's on enemies 7 level below you, only to be 2 level below you on level 20.
I think that, he should get some necromancy spells as spellcasting. Not the full paladin casting, but an animate dead, some vampiric touch/minor drain and the occasional cause fear would work fine. Or change his spell selection to mostly necromancy spells and some minor buffs.
Saying that, in the description they didn't say anything about his spellcasting, and it also seemed that he was not completed in any way as a class yet. Cavaliers never mention that they cast too. It's only Inquisitors that it's specifically noted that "they lose spellcasting ability", and since it's a paladin kit, you need to mention they lose it.
In other words, it's a paladin kit, you get what a paladin gets plus these, except these. Inquisitors say -no casting-, cavaliers don't even mention it.
So my guess is they have some limited form of casting from necromancy spells at least.
There are 2 mods with blackguard-like kits, both for fighters, because you cannot make an evil paladin in the last engine, also, fighter means fighter ui aka no spellcasting, so only special abilities. One is hopelessly broken (antipaladin), and one is severly underpowered (blackguard). Let's hope this Blackguard from Overhaul lives up to his name.
There are 2 mods with blackguard-like kits, both for fighters, because you cannot make an evil paladin in the last engine, also, fighter means fighter ui aka no spellcasting, so only special abilities. One is hopelessly broken (antipaladin), and one is severly underpowered (blackguard). Let's hope this Blackguard from Overhaul lives up to his name.
I played a run with the antipaladin mod once. It is broken like you said due to the dispel magic on hit. The funny thing is that this was actually more of a liability in BG1 rather than an asset. I would run up and hit an enemy who was webbed or down from colorspray or sleep and the hit would dispel the magic and wake them up where they would immediately attack.
Personally, I think the poison weapon ability is so powerful that spell casting isn't needed. I agree with @Mornmagor that the absorb health shouldn't be a save or nothing ability but instead should be a save for half ability.
Yeah, the dispel magic was given to him to make up for the fact that he can't wield Carsomyr, but it ended up like that, problematic for better and worse together. Well, technically, you can have a lvl 9 or 10 paladin with Carsomyr, so from that point on, it could be considered "legit".
Some spellcasting of necromantic spells i think would be in order.
Draw upon Holy Might is not "that" needed (cough aura of despair), but i think he needs more abilities per day, especially on aura.
The poison weapon seems fine.
The absorb health needs some tweaking so that it doesn't fail on save, especially if it's only once per day.
I just can't imagine the Blackguard without the ability to animate dead for example, then again, he does have rebuke undead, which makes up for interesting possibilities, although i think it's weaker than a clerics. So rebuke undead could make up for animate dead.
Still, maybe a spell list that has more curse or hindering spells for his opponents, fear, maybe animate for instant minions, or even a (black)prayer spell.
Pretty excited about this guy however, seems bad(ass) enough
Seems quite an interesting kit, and one I might like to play at some point. It's not particularly powerful in melee though, with only 2* in each weapon and no Armour of Faith and DUHM. I wonder if it can dual class?
It will probably end after you strike your opponent once, applying poison.
If they change the poison mechanic, then the Blackguard class would need something more to be anywhere near the same class as Inquisitor. A single hit poison, aura of fear, and single use save or fail absorb health would probably need the ability to cast spells.
@Nathan, sorry to bother, i understand that Schneidend used the info from the Reddit AMAA for Blackguard kit details. In there, i noticed that the info was a "quick run down" of what the Blackguard is.
So i just wanted to ask, when do you think it would be appropriate to let us know some more stuff about the Blackguard? Or even the full kit details? :]
I mean like, he's a dark paladin, does he have spellcasting, even a more evil list? Is poison weapon available at level 1 or 5? Or, his absorb health ability has a save, does it fail on save completely or is halved, or something else.
I'm not good at speculating, and aching to find out
If you can't reveal those things now, do you think you guys could shed some light about these Blackguard concerns in a next Candlekeep Library series maybe?
@Mornmagor If they are fighter kits you can duel class into a caster out of them. Bards cannot even do that, so it will be the only mass support power that can. This makes them more powerful than as a paladin, and well worth the trade off of dinky low level powers that would not likely include COHM. Also, they would level a bit faster. This, in addition to what I mentioned a few posts up, makes them PLENTY good if they are a fighter. You won't have as much stat demand either.
sorry if this has been discussed- what happens if reputation goes above 14 with this kit? he becomes fallen blackguard? or will now paladins and blackguards that reach the opposite spectrum of their intended reputation revert from fallen to their opposite at some point (blackguard becoming paladin, but ONLY on 20 rep, and reverse, but only on 1 REP). perhaps a mini-mini quest to get sanctioned or damned, if such thing happens (like getting blessed in lathanders temple or sacrifice innocent to talos (or something) in new dorn-related area?
Well if they make him more powerfull a la Cavalier, then i guess they could make him lose his abilities should he reach 15 reputation( 15-20=6 points, like 1-6=6 points for paladins ).
To be honest, what i expect him to be is the following, if i had to guess :
We already know his fear and level drain immunity, as well as his rebuke undead ability.
He uses poison weapon starting at level 5.
His vampiric lay on hands is save or fail, since it deals damage as well as heal.
His aura is usable once per day, although it could be tweaked maybe to last for specific seconds, and to turn it on/off so you can save some for later, but with once per day he can legitimately get spell casting as well.
He gets spell casting with some added necromancy spells, aka he gets spells like doom(already available) and larloch's minor drain at 1st level, horror and ghoul touch at 2nd level, vampiric touch and animate dead at 3rd level( i can't imagine him unable to animate dead, it's already a priest spell), MAYBE he should be eligible to summon insects as well, like an unholy swarm of blight or so, and at 4rth level who knows.
I assume his HLA will be fighter+summon fallen deva.
I also assume he's gonna fall if he reaches rep 15 or so.
About him losing spellcasting like the inquisitor :
Inquisitors lose spellcasting, but then again they gain a -double his level- dispel magic and a 6th level spell several times per day. Then again, an inquisitor does not feel like a paladin at all. No turn undead, no spellcasting, no lay on hands, what kind of paladin is that? I never liked inquisitors roleplaying or aesthetically-wise, although mechanically they could even be the stongest.
Blackguard is an evil paladin, losing an ability that is distinct for the class from levels 9 to 20 for a -once per day- aura and 3 poison weapon uses is absurd.
I hope the next swarm of info in the library is about the blackguard ^^
He could also become unable to use blunt weapons, or even better, unable to use healing spells, healing himself only through his ability, and larloch's minor drain/vampiric touch, aka necromancy spells from his book.
Actually, unable to use cure spells sounds pretty cool to me, no healing spells, but some necromancy ones to his spellbook.
Comments
Once back on the mainland - sword of balduran was enough. I never found that quest that challenging, always found Aec'Letec more so. Never paid much attention during that quest to be honest haha.
Save this for special occasions - use any item - black blade of disaster (scroll) + long sword in his off-hand + holy power + righteous magic + globe of blades + improved haste + assassination (+ stoneskin & mirror image if you'd like) = Tiax rules all!
Since this is a confirmed PALADIN kit, and not fighter after all, does this mean he gets divine spellcasting i assume?
Unless they give the Blackguard more uses per day for his abilities, as he is now i don't see why he shouldn't be able to cast.
Inquisitor can't cast and do paladin stuff, but the guy has really strong powers for that and many times per day.
I think it's a given he will be able to cast, i've seen some wannabe Blackguard kits through mods, but they couldn't cast because they were fighter kits, and had the fighter interface (hardcoded and also the paladin was hardcoded to be good i think).
I agree @Dragonspear, that if tweaked properly, the guy doesn't need spellcasting.
For me, that is :
1) His absorb health ability, is a lay on hands that does damage too. But it has a save. If on save it fails, then it becomes a bit more problematic, since the aura of despair does not lower saves. This needs 3 things, more uses per day, or half damage even on save, or for the aura to affect saving throws as well.
2) Poison weapon, it's usable about 4 times at level 20. This seems powerful if used properly, but you'll need to bypass any protections to do damage, unless it bypasses them, on which case, it is indeed powerful enough.
3) Aura of despair. This needs more uses per day for sure. If you only just have it once, it's too limited. Also, fear doesn't always work as well, it makes you need to run around to catch the fleeing opponent, some times engaging even more enemies. Never mind that it's on enemies 7 level below you, only to be 2 level below you on level 20.
I think that, he should get some necromancy spells as spellcasting. Not the full paladin casting, but an animate dead, some vampiric touch/minor drain and the occasional cause fear would work fine. Or change his spell selection to mostly necromancy spells and some minor buffs.
Saying that, in the description they didn't say anything about his spellcasting, and it also seemed that he was not completed in any way as a class yet. Cavaliers never mention that they cast too. It's only Inquisitors that it's specifically noted that "they lose spellcasting ability", and since it's a paladin kit, you need to mention they lose it.
In other words, it's a paladin kit, you get what a paladin gets plus these, except these. Inquisitors say -no casting-, cavaliers don't even mention it.
So my guess is they have some limited form of casting from necromancy spells at least.
There are 2 mods with blackguard-like kits, both for fighters, because you cannot make an evil paladin in the last engine, also, fighter means fighter ui aka no spellcasting, so only special abilities. One is hopelessly broken (antipaladin), and one is severly underpowered (blackguard). Let's hope this Blackguard from Overhaul lives up to his name.
Personally, I think the poison weapon ability is so powerful that spell casting isn't needed. I agree with @Mornmagor that the absorb health shouldn't be a save or nothing ability but instead should be a save for half ability.
Yeah, the dispel magic was given to him to make up for the fact that he can't wield Carsomyr, but it ended up like that, problematic for better and worse together. Well, technically, you can have a lvl 9 or 10 paladin with Carsomyr, so from that point on, it could be considered "legit".
Some spellcasting of necromantic spells i think would be in order.
Draw upon Holy Might is not "that" needed (cough aura of despair), but i think he needs more abilities per day, especially on aura.
The poison weapon seems fine.
The absorb health needs some tweaking so that it doesn't fail on save, especially if it's only once per day.
I just can't imagine the Blackguard without the ability to animate dead for example, then again, he does have rebuke undead, which makes up for interesting possibilities, although i think it's weaker than a clerics. So rebuke undead could make up for animate dead.
Still, maybe a spell list that has more curse or hindering spells for his opponents, fear, maybe animate for instant minions, or even a (black)prayer spell.
Pretty excited about this guy however, seems bad(ass) enough
Whirlwind with a good fighter doesn't leave anything standing anyway tbh
So i just wanted to ask, when do you think it would be appropriate to let us know some more stuff about the Blackguard? Or even the full kit details? :]
I mean like, he's a dark paladin, does he have spellcasting, even a more evil list? Is poison weapon available at level 1 or 5? Or, his absorb health ability has a save, does it fail on save completely or is halved, or something else.
I'm not good at speculating, and aching to find out
If you can't reveal those things now, do you think you guys could shed some light about these Blackguard concerns in a next Candlekeep Library series maybe?
Thanks ^^
*vanishes... INTO THE NIGHT*
So no multi/dualclassing.
ah, the options....
To be honest, what i expect him to be is the following, if i had to guess :
We already know his fear and level drain immunity, as well as his rebuke undead ability.
He uses poison weapon starting at level 5.
His vampiric lay on hands is save or fail, since it deals damage as well as heal.
His aura is usable once per day, although it could be tweaked maybe to last for specific seconds, and to turn it on/off so you can save some for later, but with once per day he can legitimately get spell casting as well.
He gets spell casting with some added necromancy spells, aka he gets spells like doom(already available) and larloch's minor drain at 1st level, horror and ghoul touch at 2nd level, vampiric touch and animate dead at 3rd level( i can't imagine him unable to animate dead, it's already a priest spell), MAYBE he should be eligible to summon insects as well, like an unholy swarm of blight or so, and at 4rth level who knows.
I assume his HLA will be fighter+summon fallen deva.
I also assume he's gonna fall if he reaches rep 15 or so.
About him losing spellcasting like the inquisitor :
Inquisitors lose spellcasting, but then again they gain a -double his level- dispel magic and a 6th level spell several times per day. Then again, an inquisitor does not feel like a paladin at all. No turn undead, no spellcasting, no lay on hands, what kind of paladin is that? I never liked inquisitors roleplaying or aesthetically-wise, although mechanically they could even be the stongest.
Blackguard is an evil paladin, losing an ability that is distinct for the class from levels 9 to 20 for a -once per day- aura and 3 poison weapon uses is absurd.
I hope the next swarm of info in the library is about the blackguard ^^
Actually, unable to use cure spells sounds pretty cool to me, no healing spells, but some necromancy ones to his spellbook.