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Blackguard Kit Details!

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  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    And with Rebuke Undead, she could be yours to command!
  • FinellachFinellach Member Posts: 36
    CCarluNN said:


    Blackguard: Doom Metal - FEAR ME!

    I'd sooner go with Britney Spears or Justin Bieber....that's way much scarier than any lame doom metal. ;)

    Dragonspear
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Looking at the kit's details again, I noticed something.

    NO DOWNSIDES.

    Every kit outside of cleric ones have at least some downside. Most of them are negligible. However, they still exist.

    What's the downside to being a Blackguard over either a default paladin or fighter? I don't see a single one.
    The_New_Romancekirossarevok57jflieder
  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    If i would change something, it would be more uses per day as you level on aura of despair.
    Schneidend
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Maybe these abilities are meant to be replacements for the paladin's normal abilities? I imagine Absorb Health, for instance, is a replacement of Lay on Hands. To be honest, I don't spend much time playing as ordinary paladins.
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    Aosaw said:

    Maybe these abilities are meant to be replacements for the paladin's normal abilities? I imagine Absorb Health, for instance, is a replacement of Lay on Hands. To be honest, I don't spend much time playing as ordinary paladins.

    That is how I see it and it makes it tie out to the Paladin kits even more.

    Immunity to level drain instead of immunity to hold/charm
    Absorb Health instead of Lay on Hands
    Poison/Aura instead of Dispell Magic/True Seeing or Prot Evil/Remove Fear
    etc.

  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,861

    Looking at the kit's details again, I noticed something.

    NO DOWNSIDES.

    Every kit outside of cleric ones have at least some downside. Most of them are negligible. However, they still exist.

    What's the downside to being a Blackguard over either a default paladin or fighter? I don't see a single one.

    You have to be evil.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190

    Looking at the kit's details again, I noticed something.

    NO DOWNSIDES.

    Every kit outside of cleric ones have at least some downside. Most of them are negligible. However, they still exist.

    What's the downside to being a Blackguard over either a default paladin or fighter? I don't see a single one.

    Con vs Paladin: No divine spellcasting.
    Con vs Fighter: No Grand Mastery.
    SpaceInvaderSydBarret
  • CCarluNNCCarluNN Member Posts: 200
    Although this discussion is about the Blackguard Kit, I'm also curious about Blackguard specific equipment, if any. Something that deals bonus damage to good creatures would be nice.
  • State_LemmingState_Lemming Member Posts: 375
    That level drain immunity alone is enough to make me go bad.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    No, I don't think that would be nice. I can't think of a single Good-aligned enemy.

    According to the AMAA, though, Dorn has a magic sword that gives him a 24-hour buff whenever he kills something. I'm kind of hoping it's Blackguard-only but not Dorn-only, so I can kill him and take it from him.
    toanwrathArchaos
  • State_LemmingState_Lemming Member Posts: 375
    Precedent would make the case for the sword being "Dorn-only."
    Dragonspear
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    @State-Lemming
    Unfortunately, yeah. But, my hope is that being exclusive to a specific kit will be enough of a limiting factor. The game really needs more magical greatswords that aren't as powerful as Spider's Bane and are more easily acquired. I can never remember which map it is where the greatsword +1 is wielded by a half-ogre guy. For whatever reason, that is the ONLY +1 greatsword I've ever seen in the game.
    DragonspearThe_New_Romancekiros
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @Schneidend

    I think in the Thieves maze there's actually some undead using two-handed +1 swords (but yeah, kind of late).
  • KerozevokKerozevok Member Posts: 695
    Balanced kit, nor too weak, nor too powerful, no problem.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389

    Looking at the kit's details again, I noticed something.

    NO DOWNSIDES.

    Every kit outside of cleric ones have at least some downside. Most of them are negligible. However, they still exist.

    What's the downside to being a Blackguard over either a default paladin or fighter? I don't see a single one.

    Con vs Paladin: No divine spellcasting.
    Con vs Fighter: No Grand Mastery.
    They didn't specifically say no divine spellcasting, though, did they? Also, if it's a fighter kit and not a Paladin kit, how do you know there isn't Grand Mastery? It'd have to be listed somewhere for that to be the case

    There's still a lot of unknowns and ambiguities.

    @Permidion_Stark: I fail to see how that's a downside. Being good aligned is more of a hindrance than being evil in the BG series.
    Thunder
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    @sandmanccl
    From Keith:
    Very good class if you're battling undead creatures or spellcasters (the poison weapon ability is particularly effective against them). The fighter is able to specialize up to grand mastery (5 slots) so is probably a better melee class overall.
    The list of benefits I provided mentions no divine spellcasting because the class doesn't have it, I would think.

    As for the alignment business, starting as an Evil alignment gives you a much lower starting Reputation. Also, it's very possible to pick Good alignment and not be hindered in the slightest. As many alignment threads on this forum have shown, you could slaughter an entire town and still somehow be Lawful Good. -_-
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447

    @sandmanccl
    From Keith:

    Very good class if you're battling undead creatures or spellcasters (the poison weapon ability is particularly effective against them). The fighter is able to specialize up to grand mastery (5 slots) so is probably a better melee class overall.
    The list of benefits I provided mentions no divine spellcasting because the class doesn't have it, I would think.

    As for the alignment business, starting as an Evil alignment gives you a much lower starting Reputation. Also, it's very possible to pick Good alignment and not be hindered in the slightest. As many alignment threads on this forum have shown, you could slaughter an entire town and still somehow be Lawful Good. -_-

    Well, I think the "how" is obvious: They deserved it. ;)
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738


    The list of benefits I provided mentions no divine spellcasting because the class doesn't have it, I would think.

    I don't think the Paladin or Ranger kits mention divine spellcasting in their descriptions either except to say they get additional spells or don't get any spellcasting.
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    Here's the insight I have to the information given, and unless if what you wrote is some improvisation on your part, then I think it is a paladin kit.

    1. Absorb health is logically the opposite of lay on hands.
    2. Evil clerics get rebuke undead (opposite of good clerics)
    3. Turn undead, is possibly hard coded as part of a cleric's and paladin's bar. It is possible that beam dog added the button specifically for blackgaurds, but I personally doubt that's the case since it may lead to issues and confusion.
    4. To those that say it would be illegal since only humans can be paladins, I ask you to look at the illegalities of Kagain, Coran, Aerie, and Anomen.

    In closing, I'm hoping it is a paladin kit, because not only would you have access to another paladin in the game, but it wouldn't be human (of which there are an over abundance of); therefore adding variety.

    On a side note, both bg1 and 2 really need more shorties and some shortie romances.
    SchneidendThe_New_Romance
  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727

    I can never remember which map it is where the greatsword +1 is wielded by a half-ogre guy. For whatever reason, that is the ONLY +1 greatsword I've ever seen in the game.

    @Schneidend : South of Ulcaster, north of the Nashkel Carnival. Pretty easy to acquire it early on, even on level 1. Should be easier still on BGEE with kits and all that though.
    Schneidend
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    @Xavioria
    On shortie romances we can agree. Not including feisty dwarf chicks is the greatest failing of any CRPG. I was crushed when I found out that the companions in the Neverwinter Nights expansion Shadows of Undrendtide were not romanceable, and looked on in horror at my female dwarf cleric/rogue friend, wondering what MIGHT have been.

    @Cheesebelly
    *Offers a slice of muenster*
    XavioriaMetaSiegThe_New_Romance
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    edited August 2012

    @sandmanccl
    From Keith:

    Very good class if you're battling undead creatures or spellcasters (the poison weapon ability is particularly effective against them). The fighter is able to specialize up to grand mastery (5 slots) so is probably a better melee class overall.
    The list of benefits I provided mentions no divine spellcasting because the class doesn't have it, I would think.

    As for the alignment business, starting as an Evil alignment gives you a much lower starting Reputation. Also, it's very possible to pick Good alignment and not be hindered in the slightest. As many alignment threads on this forum have shown, you could slaughter an entire town and still somehow be Lawful Good. -_-

    That seems proof to me it's a Paladin kit. Cool. Good to know. If it does indeed lack spellcasting, it's basically an evil version of Inquisitor which I can definitely live with. I probably would roll Inquisitor more often if Keldorn weren't so damn good at it. Actually, it's more in line with an Undead Hunter as both are immune to level drain and fear.

    What I meant with the "it forces you to be evil" as far as being a class downside, that's like saying losing ranged grand mastery on berzerkers is a class downside, except even more insignificant.

    And you get to use the Unholy Avenger sword come BG2! So there's always that!

    @Xavioria: It's true. I think every last NPC has something about them that's fudged. Minsc can rage. Edwin gets boatloads of extra spells. Viconia's a drow (though they said they were adding new subraces...) Branwen gets casts of spiritual hammer. Tiax summons ghouls and therefore rules all.
  • GhildreanGhildrean Member Posts: 4
    edited August 2012
    Xavioria said:


    4. To those that say it would be illegal since only humans can be paladins, I ask you to look at the illegalities of Kagain, Coran, Aerie, and Anomen.

    A fighter dwarf, a fighter/thief elf, a wizard/cleric elf and a fighter/dualized cleric human? Which one has anything illegal here?
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    I think @Xavioria was pointing to Kagain's 20 Constitution, Aerie's Mage/Cleric (elves can't use this multiclass combination, although Aerie is technically an Avariel), or...that's all I got. Been a while since I've worked with Coran or Anomen.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Ghildrean said:

    Xavioria said:


    4. To those that say it would be illegal since only humans can be paladins, I ask you to look at the illegalities of Kagain, Coran, Aerie, and Anomen.

    A fighter dwarf, a fighter/thief elf, a wizard/cleric elf and a fighter/dualized cleric human? Which one has anything illegal here?
    Kagain has 20 Constitution and Coran has 20 dexterity, both impossible upon character creation. Elves cannot be multi-classed wizard/clerics according to AD&D rules. Anomen is dual-classed to cleric despite not having the prerequisite 17 Wisdom you'd need to jump from Fighter to cleric.
    Archaos
  • GhildreanGhildrean Member Posts: 4
    Okay, my bad. I didn't remember the pre-requisites.
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    edited August 2012
    Most if not all NPCs are legal actually. The reason they seem to be illegal are engine limitations and Bioware working around them to get the lore right. Say Aerie is a multiclass mage/cleric elf, but she is actually an Avariel subrace, not a pure elf, thus her class is valid, just the game has no avariels implemented.

    but paladins = humans only. No going around that. But making the blackguard a fighter kit is a bit too much me thinks, stylistically not fitting, and too fast exp progression.

    I hope they will move barbarian under fighter kits, wild mage and sorcerer under mage kits and put new classes in the new free slots. :D
    The_New_Romance
  • Fake_SketchFake_Sketch Member Posts: 217
    Its pretty cool, I hope we get nice exclusive gear for this.
    Schneidend
  • MetaSiegMetaSieg Member Posts: 26
    Immunity to level drain? Sign me up.
    Schneidend
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