My favorite thing about Pathfinder is the archetype system, which allows each character to fill out a concept in the same way as a prestige class, while still being balanced with core classes in mind. There's a little bit of power creep, but it's a lot easier to design your character based on the ideas in your head.
I don't know that this discussion of editions has anything left to do with Blackguards, though.
Damn, so sorry to hear that you don't like that. But I guess it doesn't matter that we don't like the aesthetic of a cleric using swords.
Well, unfortunately, the whole of the FR pantheon disagrees with you. Eillistraee lets her clerics use bastard swords, Tempus axes, Mask short swords, etc.
Besides, it's not as if I said I don't want clerics to be ABLE to dual-wield. I just don't do it, myself. It doesn't appeal to me. Dual-wielding in general only appeals to me in rare circumstances and weapon combinations, as I loved the Witch King of Angmar dual-wielding a flail and long sword in Return of the King for instance.
The 2E cleric restriction against bladed weapons is based on Christian statutes during the time of the Crusades, as I recall, which forbade priests from drawing blood. That has no bearing on a fantasy realm, and getting around it by using bludgeoning weapons is hypocritical and silly.
I agree that it's silly, but it's for game balance, seriously. Clerics already get awesome spells and can wear epic armor, if you let them use such weapons they'd be even closer to warriors.
Just about the best weapon in BG1 is a warhammer, and THE best weapon in BG2 is a Warhammer. Every item type has some sort of broken totally OP item in Throne of Bhaal.
I will never buy any argument about in an AD&D based game about game balance because it just doesn't exist.
Honestly @Quartz in many ways I'd rather have it. Most of the time currently when I play BG or IWD, I free up dual and multiclassed cleric weapon proficiency for anything a warrior can use. That's also partially because I like my dwarves with Axes and Warhammers.....
Just about the best weapon in BG1 is a warhammer, and THE best weapon in BG2 is a Warhammer. Every item type has some sort of broken totally OP item in Throne of Bhaal.
I will never buy any argument about in an AD&D based game about game balance because it just doesn't exist.
I was much more referring to the original DnD rules than Baldur's Gate. I guess we'd have to take it up with Gygax. Oh wait he be dead.
I understand, when I first read the IWD and BG2 tweak mods I had the same response until I logged in game.
Basically it removes the regular weapon restrictions that a fighter/cleric multi or dual class would have. So I can play my multi class fighter/cleric and use axes and warhammers like I prefer rather than just warhammers.
I've heard many people argue that FoA is better than Crom. Then we also have Carsomyr. There are actually a LOT of good high level weapons for most proficiencies as you said.
Flail of Ages is still usable by clerics so which one is "better" is a moot point.
Outside of clubs, there's at least a +3 of every weapon type in Shadows of Amn that is really absurd (and the Gnasher is a +2 club with one of the best on-hit abilities in the game. Really underrated weapon.)
I am confident Overhaul adds in some pretty slick weapons for the weird weapon types in BG:Enhanced. You guys have no idea idea how badly I want to run a club-dual-wielding kung fu Tiax.
Halberds and axes have generic +2s, but yeah, everything needs a +3 variant, at least for the sake of harming Alec'Letec and any demons/devils in future DLC.
Herp, forgot about the Blackblood. That weapon is baller. I think you can steal it from the vendor who holds it, no? Hard to argue with a weapon with base 7 damage.
I'd like to see a good spear, personally. Outside of the mega one out of watcher's keep in BG2, there is just the +4, +4 poison damage one out of the underdark. I guess the +2 spear that adds immunity to charm and hold is pretty handy too but still, it's a drastically under-represented weapon.
Maces could use some love, too. Mace of Disruption +2 might be one of the best weapons in the game but it's just +2. There's just the one +3 mace in Shadows of Amn and it's extra bonus is pretty meh. But that's for BG2:EE to work out.
Spears, clubs, morningstar/flails could use some love in BG1. There aren't even +2 options available to those.
The Impaler +3 is alright in BG2, I've never used Spears that often but I wholeheartedly agree that there is a massive lack of Spears, flails/morningstars, bastard swords & clubs in BG1 especially in the latter. If you ever bothered to load the mission pack save in BG and overlooked their weapons - Jaheria as a club + nothing. Ready to charge the battlefield and.... die horribly.
I'm sure they'll be adding alot or at least I hope so, otherwise there'll be heaps of people putting pips into useless weapons.
Also I've always wanted Tiax in BG2, I rarely used him in BG1. Not because I'm a Tiax hater but because he's too late in the game. He'd be crazy useful in BG2 & an evil Thief, which is lacking! I'm always useing Jan in my evil parties - nothing against him - I think he's a great character but still..
I was so sad when I got there and my loyal varsconia and the +2 warhammer wouldn't get the job done anymore. Many sad pandas were had =(
The problem in that case wasn't that you didn't have a +3 weapon, Greater Wolfweres in TotSC can only be hit with special weapons with a "cold steel" (?) enchantment. Unless this was something added by a mod. I know I had to raid Karoug's chest to get the sword so I could kill him.
I was so sad when I got there and my loyal varsconia and the +2 warhammer wouldn't get the job done anymore. Many sad pandas were had =(
The problem in that case wasn't that you didn't have a +3 weapon, Greater Wolfweres in TotSC can only be hit with special weapons with a "cold steel" (?) enchantment. Unless this was something added by a mod. I know I had to raid Karoug's chest to get the sword so I could kill him.
Pretty sure that's a mod, never heard of requiring cold steel enchantments. AFAIK it's just +3 and better, hoping to do more damage than the insane regeneration.
@Isair totally agree with you, man. Tiax would have fit in really well with most the parties I assemble in BG2. Even if he again joined really late due to being in Spellhold. Wouldn't bother me at all, because that's when you lose/regain your thief for good-aligned parties anyway. Making it so evil parties could recruit him there instead of Imoen seems like a win.
Weapons I know for a fact could hit Greater Werewolves:
Cursed 2h Sword of Berserkering +3 Staff of Striking +3 Bastard Sword +1, +3 Against Shapeshifters (2 pickpocketable in game if you want to exploit that) Flametongue (i think was the name) that was +3 or +4 against shapeshifters but was also normally a +1 weapon.
@Tanthalas All the literature I've read online including DSimpson's wonderful FAQ and walkthrough at Gamefaqs all say that those Greater Werewolves on the island needed a +3 or better. I never had the short sword of backstabbing +3 when I went there so I can't check that.
THat would be the Cursed Greatsword of Berserking unless the king from Durlag's Chess Event drops a +3 Greatsword. Which now that I think about it, he very well might. I just would rarely use it cause overall spider's bane was better for my party.
THat would be the Cursed Greatsword of Berserking unless the king from Durlag's Chess Event drops a +3 Greatsword. Which now that I think about it, he very well might. I just would rarely use it cause overall spider's bane was better for my party.
Aye, the Chess Event sword is a +3.
It sounds like you have some kind of mod, Tanthalus, because I'm pretty sure the only weapon I had that you're describing was the bastard sword +1, +3 vs. shapeshifters. My PC was a dedicated greatsword wielder, and I don't recall having him run away from any werewolves. If I remember right, I just used Enrage and plowed right through them like I did for just about every powerful monster in the game.
The Chess Event Greatsword might have been coded for it as well. I haven't tested it, my list was purely on memory.
The last time I ran through was with my cavalier who didn't have bastard sword proficiency. Thankfully I had enough buffs and a high enough AC though that even without proficiency in Bastard Swords I was able to take him down.
DERP I'm stupid. Karoug is indeed immune to non-magical / non-silver weapons after his transformation... Been checking the wrong creature lol. Kondar / Flame Tongue / Sword of Balduran to hit him with swords, didn't check other weapon types.
Comments
I don't know that this discussion of editions has anything left to do with Blackguards, though.
I will never buy any argument about in an AD&D based game about game balance because it just doesn't exist.
I understand, when I first read the IWD and BG2 tweak mods I had the same response until I logged in game.
Basically it removes the regular weapon restrictions that a fighter/cleric multi or dual class would have. So I can play my multi class fighter/cleric and use axes and warhammers like I prefer rather than just warhammers.
@SandmanCCL
I've heard many people argue that FoA is better than Crom. Then we also have Carsomyr. There are actually a LOT of good high level weapons for most proficiencies as you said.
also
Moment of Silence for Gygax
Outside of clubs, there's at least a +3 of every weapon type in Shadows of Amn that is really absurd (and the Gnasher is a +2 club with one of the best on-hit abilities in the game. Really underrated weapon.)
I am confident Overhaul adds in some pretty slick weapons for the weird weapon types in BG:Enhanced. You guys have no idea idea how badly I want to run a club-dual-wielding kung fu Tiax.
I definitely agree that BG:EE needs some cool clubs and spears. Luckily, they've promised just that!
Honestly hoping for a lot more +2 variants of most weapons as well. I think Axes and Halberds only have +1 weapons in BG1.
That wouldn't be so bad if parts of the expansion didn't require +3 weapons or greater to hit =(
I was so sad when I got there and my loyal varsconia and the +2 warhammer wouldn't get the job done anymore. Many sad pandas were had =(
I'd like to see a good spear, personally. Outside of the mega one out of watcher's keep in BG2, there is just the +4, +4 poison damage one out of the underdark. I guess the +2 spear that adds immunity to charm and hold is pretty handy too but still, it's a drastically under-represented weapon.
Maces could use some love, too. Mace of Disruption +2 might be one of the best weapons in the game but it's just +2. There's just the one +3 mace in Shadows of Amn and it's extra bonus is pretty meh. But that's for BG2:EE to work out.
Spears, clubs, morningstar/flails could use some love in BG1. There aren't even +2 options available to those.
I'm sure they'll be adding alot or at least I hope so, otherwise there'll be heaps of people putting pips into useless weapons.
Also I've always wanted Tiax in BG2, I rarely used him in BG1. Not because I'm a Tiax hater but because he's too late in the game. He'd be crazy useful in BG2 & an evil Thief, which is lacking! I'm always useing Jan in my evil parties - nothing against him - I think he's a great character but still..
Wasn't this forum about Blackguards?
You only see the "Cold Steel" thing if you're looking at the item in an editor. There's no mention of it in the game.
That's uh, really useful.
The regular Wolfweres only need magical weapons to hit. Karoug is the one that requires the Cold Steel/Silver trait.
From what I can tell there are only 4 weapons that have this effect in BG1 (basically any item that has a + damage to lycanthropes or shapeshifters.
Cursed 2h Sword of Berserkering +3
Staff of Striking +3
Bastard Sword +1, +3 Against Shapeshifters (2 pickpocketable in game if you want to exploit that)
Flametongue (i think was the name) that was +3 or +4 against shapeshifters but was also normally a +1 weapon.
@Tanthalas
All the literature I've read online including DSimpson's wonderful FAQ and walkthrough at Gamefaqs all say that those Greater Werewolves on the island needed a +3 or better. I never had the short sword of backstabbing +3 when I went there so I can't check that.
THat would be the Cursed Greatsword of Berserking unless the king from Durlag's Chess Event drops a +3 Greatsword. Which now that I think about it, he very well might. I just would rarely use it cause overall spider's bane was better for my party.
I just tested it and neither the Staff of striking nor the Cursed Berserking sword work on Karoug.
Not sure what game you're playing but in all the versions I have he's only immune to non-magical weapons thanks to IMMUNE1.ITM ring
It sounds like you have some kind of mod, Tanthalus, because I'm pretty sure the only weapon I had that you're describing was the bastard sword +1, +3 vs. shapeshifters. My PC was a dedicated greatsword wielder, and I don't recall having him run away from any werewolves. If I remember right, I just used Enrage and plowed right through them like I did for just about every powerful monster in the game.
Thanks for testing it. Sorry I provided false info then.
@Schneidend
The Chess Event Greatsword might have been coded for it as well. I haven't tested it, my list was purely on memory.
The last time I ran through was with my cavalier who didn't have bastard sword proficiency. Thankfully I had enough buffs and a high enough AC though that even without proficiency in Bastard Swords I was able to take him down.
Kondar / Flame Tongue / Sword of Balduran to hit him with swords, didn't check other weapon types.