Whoa, whoa... I see a lot of people getting offended by a simple question. He was interested in knowing why women play the game. I really couldn't read all the comments, but I don't think you should get offended by his comments. They are, even if not completely accurate, a little spot on. Let's just say that even if the percentage of women playing videogames isn't as low as it was long time ago, the percentage of men who play videogames is larger. So, even if his assumptions on the statistics aren't ''accurate'', the point is still the same. No big deal about it, I don't really care about those kind of comments, so I'll just answer with my opinion. Baldur's Gate probably caught my attention because of the deepness of the story, and the complexity of the characters, not to talk about the huge number of quests you can finish, and the development of the whole world and gameplay. Baldur's Gate is one of the most complete games I've ever played. I'm generally into games, it's just like reading a book, or watching a movie. The idea is to drift apart from your life temporarily, and have fun. Videogames allow you to participate, so that's why they're so mega popular. It's like... I don't know, a thrilling experience; I wouldn't be quiet with my life if I didn't get the opportunity to relax and enjoy a true masterpiece such as this one, every now and then. BG consumes time, but that's the idea, right? At least the way I see it, I can experience a lot of things I could never do in real life xD That's the interesting part about it. Baldur's Gate is great as a whole, there isn't just one single thing that's interesting about it, really... I wouldn't play a game if it only had one or two things that made it interesting. Also, being an RPG, your experience is... ''closer to reality'' xD That's, briefly, why I play the game. And why I love it
I believe that over the course of this thread, there have been a lot of assertions made based on incorrect understanding of the facts. Further assertions of fact probably need to be documented with links if people still want to discuss this.
My simple answer to the OP's question is that women play video and computer games for the same reasons men do.
Somewhere along the thread, I am sure that I expressed my experiences. To recap, back in the 90s I attended Gen Con for several years running, the gaming convention originally designed around Dungeons and Dragons. When I first started going to the convention, the ratio of male to female was probably 90/10, with at least a fair number of the women only there because their significant other was going. This changed over the course of 5-7 years such that the ratio of men to women eventually became something like 70/30 and the trend wasn't stopping there.
I attended the convention again this year for the first time in 15 years. I was thrilled to find that the attendee ratio was easily 55-45 or closer to parity. Loads of women were in there playing games or dressing up as their favorite characters. It was very refreshing to see that the trend continues.
To say that 'a lot more men play games than women' is a common misconception which is primarily propagated by a society that simply doesn't know any better. It is also the same thinking that brought about 'Gamer-gate' and other such unpleasantness.
At the end of the day, women play games for exactly the same reason as men do, because they are fun and entertaining. I think the reason people get in a huff about the topic is that what may seem to be an innocent question can in some ways look like an attempt to put someone down. Not that this was the intent of the OP, just that it is done and can often leave people a bit raw on the subject.
I believe that over the course of this thread, there have been a lot of assertions made based on incorrect understanding of the facts. Further assertions of fact probably need to be documented with links if people still want to discuss this.
My simple answer to the OP's question is that women play video and computer games for the same reasons men do.
It's late and I don't have time to actually check this so take it with as many grains of salt as you please, but it was my impression that technically there are more woman "gamers" than men, but women play mostly "casual" mobile games like candy crush or clash of clans, and that the "hardcore" gaming market was still mostly men. I relize I have way to many things in "quotations" for that to sound true at all but there you have it. Regardless of the gamer demographic, it's still true that the gaming(and programming in general) industry is VERY male dominated, and that has a large effect on what's in games.
It's late and I don't have time to actually check this so take it with as many grains of salt as you please, but it was my impression that technically there are more woman "gamers" than men, but women play mostly "casual" mobile games like candy crush or clash of clans, and that the "hardcore" gaming market was still mostly men. I relize I have way to many things in "quotations" for that to sound true at all but there you have it. Regardless of the gamer demographic, it's still true that the gaming(and programming in general) industry is VERY male dominated, and that has a large effect on what's in games.
I actually HAVE done the research. While it is true that there is a large segment in the female population that do 'Casual' gamer games like candy crush, this in no way means that "Most women only play casual games". That's just wrong and only propagates the stereotype.
As for programming and development, there was a time when that was thought of Writers as well. 'Women Writers' were not accepted. Why do you think that Dorothy Fontana adopted the moniker D. C. Fontana? Because she wanted to write for Star Trek and it was not widely acceptable. It's the same mentality that created 'Gamergate', which is particularly distasteful in my view.
There are some truly amazing women programmers out there. There are some really avid women gamer enthusiasts. There are a LOT more than people generally imagine because a lot of women hide behind anonymity instead of facing what is in a very real way, discrimination.
Just to add, casual games are for everyone. A really hardcore Call of Duty player can also sit down and enjoy a bout of Angry Birds between bus commutes or waiting at the doctor's office or someplace else where you need to kill time, but don't have a console readily available. What do parents do when the kid is bored during a shopping trip? If she's appropriate age, these days they'll hand her a phone or a tablet and let her play Candy Crush for a while. Doesn't mean she won't go home and pick up Final Fantasy later. Even I've spent a few too many hours playing Bejeweled back in the day, with little to no shame.
That's part of why I hate the casual gamer/hardcore gamer spectrum people try to force on the community, because in reality, they're rarely exclusive.
One girfriend of mine told me why she plays BG. She is fantasy bookworm. And the game has athmosphere that she could visually imagined it. I think she has the longest gameplay of BG because she read all the in-game books.
I lost many a Saturday afternoon trying to beat my own high score in Bejeweled, back in high school. Sometimes you don't want to spend two hours rolling ability scores; sometimes you want to spend that time matching similarly-colored gemstones in groups of three or more.
I would just like to point out that I was NOT saying that I thought only girls play casual games, casual games are just for girls, causal gaming is bad, or that though women should not for some reason be involved in programming/game development. What I WAS saying was that I think that more of the people who play casual mobile games are women rather than men, and most of the people who play hardcore games are men rather than women, and I think that's an underlying assumption of many people right now. Not that I think that's how it should be. Im not sure if that's %100 true or not but if someone has an actual source that proves/disproves any of this I'd be nice if you shared it.
As far as it goes, the Washington post article linked above is a pretty good place to start.
I do strongly suspect that their percentage distributions are not as accurate as they would like. There is a strong culture of bias and prejudice against women gamers leading to some nastiness such as 'Gamergate' among other things. This, as the article indicates, leads a lot of women to disguise their gender and even their identity for fear of reprisals.
The true test (at least for me) was going to Gen Con this year where you could actually see women and men in almost equal measure playing all sorts of games from D&D to Magic the Gathering to video games to tabletop games to Cosplay. It warmed my heart that everyone was having a good time and no one was being ostracized or treated badly because of who they were.
It may not be the intent here, but to some merely asking the question "Why do you play this type of game" actually translates into the much more negatively connotated "Why do YOU play this type of game" where the emphasis suggests that the "You" being talked too is not at all welcome.
I did some quick googling and found that basically the issue is so charged its impossible to find any good data. I found an article that kinda supported what I said but it was basically an opinion article. Everything else was using that one 52/48 statistic and sported a "0HOLY $&*€~+@! Guys there are more women than teenage boys playing videogames! sexism! women! Genahdh!"-esque title.
I would also like to point out that that stat is basically 50/50, and at this point basically everyone plays games on their phone. So it's not surprising that 50% of everybody is a woman.
However, for lack of a better data a present you this anecdote: ALL of my male friends are card-carrying console owning "hardcore" gamers. NONE of my female friends are. Most of the males I know, period, play videogames. I can think of two girls I know that I would call "gamers". I know that that is not a data set, but in kinda justifies my stated view.
One more thing: I believe that something like %17 of the people on this forum(a gaming community) were women. I know that's not real data either but it doesn't really support the %50 statistic.
However, for lack of a better data a present you this anecdote: ALL of my male friends are card-carrying console owning "hardcore" gamers. NONE of my female friends are. Most of the males I know, period, play videogames. I can think of two girls I know that I would call "gamers". I know that that is not a data set, but in kinda justifies my stated view.
One more thing: I believe that something like %17 of the people on this forum(a gaming community) were women. I know that's not real data either but it doesn't really support the %50 statistic.
Yeah, my observations say the same thing. On the NWN2 server I play on, the number of female players I've encountered in about 5 years of playing can be coutned on one hand. At the roleplaying club, there are a few female players (they all attend with their boyfriends - hence the "your boyfriend must have gotten you into gaming!" cliche ), but the crowd is still predominantly male, and in the wargaming club, I think I've seen 2 girls in the 3 years that I've been going there. I almost never hear a female voice on Teamspeak/voice chat - it does happen sometimes, but it's rare, and almost every time I see a female avatar in a game and become a bit more familiar with the person, it turns out to be a male player.
Official statistics can often be manipulated to say whatever one wants them to, but at the end of the day, my own observations tell a different story. I'm sure if you include people who just play browser games on the bus then maybe there is a more even split, but if you take that crowd away and only consider people who game as an actual hobby, I think you'll find there are far more males.
This isn't a boast, or an attempt to ostracise anyone. I would love to see more females playing games, but from what I see, the majority of females just aren't interested.
However, for lack of a better data a present you this anecdote: ALL of my male friends are card-carrying console owning "hardcore" gamers. NONE of my female friends are. Most of the males I know, period, play videogames. I can think of two girls I know that I would call "gamers". I know that that is not a data set, but in kinda justifies my stated view.
What you are describing here is a non-statistically significant sample size along with confirmation bias. Basically, you are finding the results that you are expecting to find. And that isn't all that unusual. I suspect that a LOT of people do exactly the same thing and that is why the general public belief is what it is.
If you are ever really interested, go attend (or merely hang out outside) Comic Con or Gen Con or whatever Geek/nerd Convention that happens to go on in your area and you might see something completely different.
But that wouldn't prove anything except the proportions of gamers who go to conventions are female respectively male :P
You are right in that it would not be a true random sample selection. But in fact, it is directionally a valid way of looking at things because it represents "Within the geek community" that gender is split fairly equally.
A true statistically valid random sample selection of a cross section of the US (just as an example) should still show something closer to 50/50 "Within the segment that plays games" as far as gender is concerned. But then you are really subsetting the sample down to the 'Geek community' anyway, so...
And then you would have to deal with discrimination factors and people lying or otherwise miss-representing themselves. As stated above, a significant percentage of female gamers conceal the fact, or merely miss-represent their gender so as not to be treated 'Differently'. Much like online dating, people fear predators and those who would target women gamers.
What you are describing here is a non-statistically significant sample size along with confirmation bias. Basically, you are finding the results that you are expecting to find.
Except I could actually give you a head count. I could list every member of the NWN2 server along with their gender (I won't though - I don't think people will be too happy if I start throwing their names about with wild abandon). I could even show you a list of members on the Facebook page of my local gaming group (again, I won't). Each time, you would see that the majority is male.
Sorry if I'm being argumentative but I really don't think this 50% figure is true. I would expect such a statistic to be reflected across the board, but if a forum like this, full of relatively mature people who don't ostracise, threaten, abuse, or otherwise make life difficult for, female gamers, can only boast a female population of 17%...well, I may be no mathematician but 83/17 looks a considerably long way from 50/50 to me.
Again, I should point out that I have nothing whatsoever against female gamers. This isn't supposed to tell anybody that they can't, or shouldn't, play games...I'm merely stating my observations. I would love there to be more girls in the gaming community, but I simply don't see that being the case.
Comments
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Apart from Arcee... So named because... uhm...
Anyway. Nearly all change now if you read the IDW comics.
Baldur's Gate probably caught my attention because of the deepness of the story, and the complexity of the characters, not to talk about the huge number of quests you can finish, and the development of the whole world and gameplay. Baldur's Gate is one of the most complete games I've ever played. I'm generally into games, it's just like reading a book, or watching a movie. The idea is to drift apart from your life temporarily, and have fun. Videogames allow you to participate, so that's why they're so mega popular. It's like... I don't know, a thrilling experience; I wouldn't be quiet with my life if I didn't get the opportunity to relax and enjoy a true masterpiece such as this one, every now and then. BG consumes time, but that's the idea, right? At least the way I see it, I can experience a lot of things I could never do in real life xD That's the interesting part about it. Baldur's Gate is great as a whole, there isn't just one single thing that's interesting about it, really... I wouldn't play a game if it only had one or two things that made it interesting. Also, being an RPG, your experience is... ''closer to reality'' xD That's, briefly, why I play the game. And why I love it
Googling "Do more men than women play computer games" gave me this article from the Washington Post at the top of the list.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2014/10/17/more-women-play-video-games-than-boys-and-other-surprising-facts-lost-in-the-mess-of-gamergate/
Here's the list, if anybody wants to do more research:
https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS651US651&q=do+more+men+than+women+play+computer+games
I believe that over the course of this thread, there have been a lot of assertions made based on incorrect understanding of the facts. Further assertions of fact probably need to be documented with links if people still want to discuss this.
My simple answer to the OP's question is that women play video and computer games for the same reasons men do.
I attended the convention again this year for the first time in 15 years. I was thrilled to find that the attendee ratio was easily 55-45 or closer to parity. Loads of women were in there playing games or dressing up as their favorite characters. It was very refreshing to see that the trend continues.
To say that 'a lot more men play games than women' is a common misconception which is primarily propagated by a society that simply doesn't know any better. It is also the same thinking that brought about 'Gamer-gate' and other such unpleasantness.
At the end of the day, women play games for exactly the same reason as men do, because they are fun and entertaining. I think the reason people get in a huff about the topic is that what may seem to be an innocent question can in some ways look like an attempt to put someone down. Not that this was the intent of the OP, just that it is done and can often leave people a bit raw on the subject.
Regardless of the gamer demographic, it's still true that the gaming(and programming in general) industry is VERY male dominated, and that has a large effect on what's in games.
As for programming and development, there was a time when that was thought of Writers as well. 'Women Writers' were not accepted. Why do you think that Dorothy Fontana adopted the moniker D. C. Fontana? Because she wanted to write for Star Trek and it was not widely acceptable. It's the same mentality that created 'Gamergate', which is particularly distasteful in my view.
There are some truly amazing women programmers out there. There are some really avid women gamer enthusiasts. There are a LOT more than people generally imagine because a lot of women hide behind anonymity instead of facing what is in a very real way, discrimination.
That's part of why I hate the casual gamer/hardcore gamer spectrum people try to force on the community, because in reality, they're rarely exclusive.
In the end, isn't that all a roll of 18 is?
I do strongly suspect that their percentage distributions are not as accurate as they would like. There is a strong culture of bias and prejudice against women gamers leading to some nastiness such as 'Gamergate' among other things. This, as the article indicates, leads a lot of women to disguise their gender and even their identity for fear of reprisals.
The true test (at least for me) was going to Gen Con this year where you could actually see women and men in almost equal measure playing all sorts of games from D&D to Magic the Gathering to video games to tabletop games to Cosplay. It warmed my heart that everyone was having a good time and no one was being ostracized or treated badly because of who they were.
It may not be the intent here, but to some merely asking the question "Why do you play this type of game" actually translates into the much more negatively connotated "Why do YOU play this type of game" where the emphasis suggests that the "You" being talked too is not at all welcome.
I would also like to point out that that stat is basically 50/50, and at this point basically everyone plays games on their phone. So it's not surprising that 50% of everybody is a woman.
However, for lack of a better data a present you this anecdote: ALL of my male friends are card-carrying console owning "hardcore" gamers. NONE of my female friends are. Most of the males I know, period, play videogames. I can think of two girls I know that I would call "gamers". I know that that is not a data set, but in kinda justifies my stated view.
One more thing: I believe that something like %17 of the people on this forum(a gaming community) were women. I know that's not real data either but it doesn't really support the %50 statistic.
Men "typically" don't read books.
Why do men read books?
It's the exact same question, only reversed. It's also an analogy. (I'm a guy.)
Official statistics can often be manipulated to say whatever one wants them to, but at the end of the day, my own observations tell a different story. I'm sure if you include people who just play browser games on the bus then maybe there is a more even split, but if you take that crowd away and only consider people who game as an actual hobby, I think you'll find there are far more males.
This isn't a boast, or an attempt to ostracise anyone. I would love to see more females playing games, but from what I see, the majority of females just aren't interested. That's not true! Lots of men read.
PS: I had to look in dictionary for "exempt".
If you are ever really interested, go attend (or merely hang out outside) Comic Con or Gen Con or whatever Geek/nerd Convention that happens to go on in your area and you might see something completely different.
In any case, it's all good.
A true statistically valid random sample selection of a cross section of the US (just as an example) should still show something closer to 50/50 "Within the segment that plays games" as far as gender is concerned. But then you are really subsetting the sample down to the 'Geek community' anyway, so...
And then you would have to deal with discrimination factors and people lying or otherwise miss-representing themselves. As stated above, a significant percentage of female gamers conceal the fact, or merely miss-represent their gender so as not to be treated 'Differently'. Much like online dating, people fear predators and those who would target women gamers.
EDIT: removed comment due to sensitivity issue.
Sorry if I'm being argumentative but I really don't think this 50% figure is true. I would expect such a statistic to be reflected across the board, but if a forum like this, full of relatively mature people who don't ostracise, threaten, abuse, or otherwise make life difficult for, female gamers, can only boast a female population of 17%...well, I may be no mathematician but 83/17 looks a considerably long way from 50/50 to me.
Again, I should point out that I have nothing whatsoever against female gamers. This isn't supposed to tell anybody that they can't, or shouldn't, play games...I'm merely stating my observations. I would love there to be more girls in the gaming community, but I simply don't see that being the case.