Wait! I got it now! I realised why women like the BG games. It's not that the story and sense of of adventure and action in a fantasy world full of heroes and quests and villains allures to people of both genders for the same reasons, or that an action/adventure RPG can be equally enjoyable to people regardless of what's between their legs.
...some men think women are faking it to attract men, etc.
Can I just ask, does anybody actually do that? I've heard this sentiment before, and to be honest, I find it a little hard to believe (come on, we geeks aren't exactly the world's most desirable of guys out there! ). Does anybody have experience of girls faking interest in games to attract guys, or is it just one of those ridiculous cliches that has somehow gotten engrained into everybody's minds? I'd be interested to know.
Where there is attention to be gotten, there's people trying very hard to get it. Regardless of gender. I don't think I've ever seen it either, but it wouldn't surprise me if I ever did. Some people are willing to go to quite some lengths to gain recognition and approval from others. I wouldn't say it's attract as in "want to find partner" but as in "want to be seen" in those cases.
I would assume that such behavior, as far as it ever existed to begin with, will go away as more and more women join nerdy communities (as it won't be as easy to be "the only girl in town" any more). But then again there's communities full of people who insist every girl that tries to nerd it out must be a fake. For whatever reason. I myself is just happy more people want to do geeky stuff these days.
I don't even understand the point of policing sincerity of gaming (or any) interest. If someone tries to act interested in something you like, how is that a problem?
...some men think women are faking it to attract men, etc.
Can I just ask, does anybody actually do that? I've heard this sentiment before, and to be honest, I find it a little hard to believe (come on, we geeks aren't exactly the world's most desirable of guys out there! ). Does anybody have experience of girls faking interest in games to attract guys, or is it just one of those ridiculous cliches that has somehow gotten engrained into everybody's minds? I'd be interested to know.
The idea probably comes out of misinterpretation by seriously insecure and self-centred guys. You know, the kind of guys that thinks a girl likes them because she smiles? Well, if she wants to play videogames with him, it's just to get at him, right?
I imagine most of those guys eventually grow out of that thinking.
Oh it's probably been done some times. Everyone can fake interest in something to gain the attention of someone who has that particular interest. Well, anyone that doesn't mind a bit of deception anyway. It's not a tactic spesific to either gender. This particular variety is probably quite rare though. Partially because it is (at least here, won't make the generalization for the entire world) much easier for women to get the attention of men than the other way around in the first place.
I'd like to point out that on just about any other Internet forum, certainly any gaming forums, this thread would have degraded into a nasty flame war by now. It is really cool to see that everyone here has kept things respectful even with pretty universal disagreement with the OP's premise. Carry on.
I'd like to point out that on just about any other Internet forum, certainly any gaming forums, this thread would have degraded into a nasty flame war by now. It is really cool to see that everyone here has kept things respectful even with pretty universal disagreement with the OP's premise. Carry on.
You cannot cure ignorance with fire--only with education.
(I don't know if anyone said that before me, but I said it now, and I think it makes me sound damn cool. )
Oh it's probably been done some times. Everyone can fake interest in something to gain the attention of someone who has that particular interest. Well, anyone that doesn't mind a bit of deception anyway. It's not a tactic spesific to either gender. This particular variety is probably quite rare though. Partially because it is (at least here, won't make the generalization for the entire world) much easier for women to get the attention of men than the other way around in the first place.
This kind of reminds me of Big Bang Theory. Don't get me wrong, I love the show and think it is VERY funny. However, have any of you noticed that the only woman in the entire run of the show who was interested in Comics or D&D (for reasons other than attempting to bond with their Nerd guy), was only in one episode and then written out? All of the women on that show look down on comics, video games and just about any fandom that is presented. They generally make a point to put down Geek/nerd culture whenever possible.
Even Amy, who is arguably the nerdiest of the women puts down Star Trek and Raiders and Comics in VERY disparaging ways.
There are VERY nerdy women out there. Some of them would put us self respecting nerds TO Shame with our lack of fandoms. The Current generation of Dr Who fans is absolutely replete with nerdy women, but they are a growing part of all of the fandoms. Just saying, it would be nice to see more of that in Hollywood and entertainment.
I don't even understand the point of policing sincerity of gaming (or any) interest. If someone tries to act interested in something you like, how is that a problem?
Seriously? I try to be interested in things my children and wife like because I'm interested in them and want to be part of their worlds, too. They do the same, in return. It's only phony when you go way too far, or go 100% contrary to yourself in doing so. There is value in being willing to give of yourself and 'suffer' something you're not 100000% interested in on somebody else's behalf.
Except Baldur's Gate. If you're only kind of into the game, you won't make it far past Candle Keep. RIP, Poseur!
My High School D&D group was actually more girls than guys which was one of the reasons why I got into D&D.
Come to think of it I know of one group of kids that plays dnd, and I think their group has one male member. And I only know one other person my age who plays BG, and she is female.
I don't even understand the point of policing sincerity of gaming (or any) interest. If someone tries to act interested in something you like, how is that a problem?
I could go on a long armchair-psycjology rant about what I think is behind the whole "fake gamer girl" thing, but I'm not sure this is the right thread for it. And I was supposed to go to sleep early tonight.
I'd like to point out that on just about any other Internet forum, certainly any gaming forums, this thread would have degraded into a nasty flame war by now. It is really cool to see that everyone here has kept things respectful even with pretty universal disagreement with the OP's premise. Carry on.
We were a little disrespectful. *whistles innocently*
...some men think women are faking it to attract men, etc.
Can I just ask, does anybody actually do that? I've heard this sentiment before, and to be honest, I find it a little hard to believe (come on, we geeks aren't exactly the world's most desirable of guys out there! ). Does anybody have experience of girls faking interest in games to attract guys, or is it just one of those ridiculous cliches that has somehow gotten engrained into everybody's minds? I'd be interested to know.
The idea probably comes out of misinterpretation by seriously insecure and self-centred guys. You know, the kind of guys that thinks a girl likes them because she smiles? Well, if she wants to play videogames with him, it's just to get at him, right?
I imagine most of those guys eventually grow out of that thinking.
/In character as Val'myr
Well obviously anyone who associates with me wants to be with me. How could they resist my charm and natural 18 charisma? Oh, wait. I broke the fourth wall again. Dammit.
Anyway, on subject. As a person with a lot of chick friends who play D&D and CRPGs I'd say it's to play an immersive fantasy game where you can project yourself into a magical setting with wizards and dragons and stuff.
My best friend plays for the same reason I do, to create characters and explore their personalities so one day when we write our respective fantasy novels we'll have fully fleshed out character to use.
My sister @Luridel got me into Baldur's Gate. I don't see what's wrong with a female person playing Baldur's Gate. If it turns out that the majority of people who play the game are male then so be it, if that's the way it is then that's the way it is, but that doesn't mean that a girl or woman shouldn't try the game out if it's something they'd be interested in.
Reading this thread recalled me of my parents when I was very young (not that they are dead, mind you!): they were very young at that time, in their twenties, and they liked to play videogames. I remember playing videogames since I have memory of my actions and I thank them for introducing me at this passion. when I was about 6 yo (more or less) they gifted me a NES for christmas with Super Mario Bros. My mother was a real champion in beating that game, being able to beat it twice (the second consecutive run was more difficult because there were Buzzy Beetles instead of Goombas and koopas moved faster) without losing a life!! When I was grown up, my mother told me that they bought that NES some months before christmas and they waited every night for me to sleep to uncover the hidden christmas gift and play SMB for hours every night. My parents still play videogames today, where my father is more for ARPGs like Diablo and such, my mother is more for platform, strategic and puzzle games but I still remember them going with me to the Arcade to play videogames each weekend with pleasure!
...However, have any of you noticed that the only woman in the entire run of the show who was interested in Comics or D&D (for reasons other than attempting to bond with their Nerd guy), was only in one episode and then written out? All of the women on that show look down on comics, video games and just about any fandom that is presented. They generally make a point to put down Geek/nerd culture whenever possible.
That's true, actually! They do take the angle of "geeky stuff is bad, just look at these silly guys who like it, and the poor normal girls who are dating them but have to put up with this!". I used to like the show but I'm actually going off it now. Sheldon's extreme OCD was mildly amusing at first but is getting irritating now...I've met people with OCD/Aspergers/other similar psychological conditions (as I'm sure many people here have) but they were nowhere near this bad, and I can't help but feel that making fun of such conditions is in pretty poor taste. You wouldn't make fun of somebody confined to a wheelchair due to not being able to walk, yet somehow it's okay to make fun of somebody with a psychological defect. It's funny how some things are acceptable to mock/insult yet others are totally taboo.
But I guess this is another topic entirely.
Back on topic: my sister has played several roleplaying games, but has never gotten past the character creation screen...and I don't mean the allocating stats part! XD
This thread reminded of times when my older sister was really interested in cRPGs. This wasn't a very long period, but it was the first time when I was proud that someone at my home liked the games I was playing. I don't remember the exact year, but it definately was more than 10 years ago.
The first game that she wanted to try was Diablo, and I must admit she was good at it. She never played a similar game before and with some minor advice she was able to finish it without much problems. It was awesome to watch her play. Then she tried Diablo 2, but didn't like it as much after a while.
So, I decided to let her play Baldur's Gate. At that time I didn't have as much knowledge of the game, as I have now, but I was able to assist her with advice when she encountered a problem. She created an elven mage, the class that I haven't played before (I don't like playing mages in cRPGs, but I did complete BG as a mage recently), so it was quite new experience to me as well. She had a similar party to mine, although she tried some other party members as well, e.g. she made fun of Edwin and then let him die to a Kobold. As far as I remember she had: Imoen, Kivan, Khalid, Jaheira and Xan.
She had some difficulties, especially vs enemy parties, but with my help she managed to get quite far. She stopped at the small room before the catacombs. For a long time, I still had that save, just in case she might want to go back and finish the game. Unfortunately she never did, school and later studies were too time consuming and this month she's getting married. I'm thinking about an additional present that might remind her about Diablo and BG. I still remember when we had a laugh when she put *that* belt on her Charname.
Other than that my mother always remembers quotes from Imoen, because she has a very distinctive accent in Polish version and she used to hear it a lot when I was playing at that time.
So, yes women do play games and enjoy them for as many reasons as men. I try to introduce people to cRPGs from both genders.
Poor OP. Placing females on a pedestal of perceived wisdom, purity and all round just being better than knuckle dragging males is going to end up badly for you. Females are just people, some good, some bad, some wise and some dumb.
The idea of watching Big Bang Theory is reminiscent of the idea of whizzing out a kidney stone. I spent twice 5 minutes marveling that someone thought putting the laugh track on EVERY OTHER LINE was a good idea. "Laugh stupid, we're making clever jokes! If they aren't funny, just laugh contagiously, and nobody will know you're secretly an idiot!"
For me, I still really like Big Bang Theory, and find quite a lot of it funny. I am (as stated above) very disappointed that they don't have any really 'geeky' women on the order of what the guys are but I suspect that is as much because of precisely the reason that the OP started this thread. They simply don't think that the public knows/accepts that women can be just as geeky as men. And take a look at a Dr Who convention sometime and you will see how geeky women can be.
Tbh, I've never really met any girls/women that are anywhere near as socially inept as the worst boys. Mind you, I don't get out much, but I suspect girls get a more rigorous training in being socially ept, and society is not very tolerant of girls being too anti-social.
I'm serious. Go to a Dr who convention (or anywhere where there is comics or cosplay). TONS of socially awkward and REALLY Geeky women. Women are not that different from men. Both sexes can occupy all points on the axis line.
I didn't say none existed necessarily, just in my admittedly pretty geeky life never met any who were nearly as bad as the worst men for anti-social behaviour. Ymmv. I've been to some pretty geeky places, and definately have met socially awkward girls/women, just none that were as anti-social.
Then again, women can't rock a full neckbeard. *shrug*
Again, women aren't that much different than men in this regard (or indeed in most regards). I do understand how some women can come across as being more together than guys. I was merely pointing out at least one location where you can see a whole plethora of them. I am sure there are others.
But at the end of the day they have just as many hang-ups and insecurities as we do. Some might say they have different ones, but they worry about people liking them, how they come across to other people, if they are part of 'The in crowd' and any other of a whole long list of insecurities and narcissistic concerns.
And I went to school with a gal that could rock a neck beard better than I ever could. Not intentionally mind you, but still. LOL.
My cousin (she's a girl) played Diablo II, and got me into it when I was 7 (yup), which got me into the RPG (or just strategy games!) genre (well, after my parents took D2 away from me I started playing Baldur's Gate (which my cousin never got interested in) and Majesty).
When Diablo III came out, my older cousin bought it for my cousin who had introduced me into Diablo II, and she finished before him =P
@joluv Surely you aren't implying anything about me? Either way, people who are socially inept stick out by nature, even if they aren't interacting with me.
I'm stating that pretty strong social pressures force girls to be less inept, not that the actual people are of a different nature. A much higher degree of anti-social behaviours are (or perhaps were, nowadays) tolerated in boys, which will affect people's behaviour. This is hardly something only I have noticed, its a huge complaint of 2nd wave feminism that girls are socially pressured to be docile, and either completely chaste or promiscuous, and boys raised to be 'tough', aggressive, and always desperately horny. The form 'social awkwardness' takes can vary based on very different social pressures/mores.
Comments
It's that the BG games has paper dolls. Where there is attention to be gotten, there's people trying very hard to get it. Regardless of gender. I don't think I've ever seen it either, but it wouldn't surprise me if I ever did. Some people are willing to go to quite some lengths to gain recognition and approval from others. I wouldn't say it's attract as in "want to find partner" but as in "want to be seen" in those cases.
I would assume that such behavior, as far as it ever existed to begin with, will go away as more and more women join nerdy communities (as it won't be as easy to be "the only girl in town" any more). But then again there's communities full of people who insist every girl that tries to nerd it out must be a fake. For whatever reason. I myself is just happy more people want to do geeky stuff these days.
Carry on.
(I don't know if anyone said that before me, but I said it now, and I think it makes me sound damn cool.
Even Amy, who is arguably the nerdiest of the women puts down Star Trek and Raiders and Comics in VERY disparaging ways.
There are VERY nerdy women out there. Some of them would put us self respecting nerds TO Shame with our lack of fandoms. The Current generation of Dr Who fans is absolutely replete with nerdy women, but they are a growing part of all of the fandoms. Just saying, it would be nice to see more of that in Hollywood and entertainment.
Except Baldur's Gate. If you're only kind of into the game, you won't make it far past Candle Keep. RIP, Poseur!
Well obviously anyone who associates with me wants to be with me. How could they resist my charm and natural 18 charisma? Oh, wait. I broke the fourth wall again. Dammit.
Anyway, on subject. As a person with a lot of chick friends who play D&D and CRPGs I'd say it's to play an immersive fantasy game where you can project yourself into a magical setting with wizards and dragons and stuff.
My best friend plays for the same reason I do, to create characters and explore their personalities so one day when we write our respective fantasy novels we'll have fully fleshed out character to use.
When I was grown up, my mother told me that they bought that NES some months before christmas and they waited every night for me to sleep to uncover the hidden christmas gift and play SMB for hours every night.
My parents still play videogames today, where my father is more for ARPGs like Diablo and such, my mother is more for platform, strategic and puzzle games but I still remember them going with me to the Arcade to play videogames each weekend with pleasure!
But I guess this is another topic entirely.
Back on topic: my sister has played several roleplaying games, but has never gotten past the character creation screen...and I don't mean the allocating stats part! XD
The first game that she wanted to try was Diablo, and I must admit she was good at it. She never played a similar game before and with some minor advice she was able to finish it without much problems. It was awesome to watch her play. Then she tried Diablo 2, but didn't like it as much after a while.
So, I decided to let her play Baldur's Gate. At that time I didn't have as much knowledge of the game, as I have now, but I was able to assist her with advice when she encountered a problem. She created an elven mage, the class that I haven't played before (I don't like playing mages in cRPGs, but I did complete BG as a mage recently), so it was quite new experience to me as well. She had a similar party to mine, although she tried some other party members as well, e.g. she made fun of Edwin and then let him die to a Kobold. As far as I remember she had: Imoen, Kivan, Khalid, Jaheira and Xan.
She had some difficulties, especially vs enemy parties, but with my help she managed to get quite far. She stopped at the small room before the catacombs. For a long time, I still had that save, just in case she might want to go back and finish the game. Unfortunately she never did, school and later studies were too time consuming and this month she's getting married. I'm thinking about an additional present that might remind her about Diablo and BG. I still remember when we had a laugh when she put *that* belt on her Charname.
Other than that my mother always remembers quotes from Imoen, because she has a very distinctive accent in Polish version and she used to hear it a lot when I was playing at that time.
So, yes women do play games and enjoy them for as many reasons as men. I try to introduce people to cRPGs from both genders.
And some play BG.
Patronizing seems to understate things here.
Then again, women can't rock a full neckbeard. *shrug*
But at the end of the day they have just as many hang-ups and insecurities as we do. Some might say they have different ones, but they worry about people liking them, how they come across to other people, if they are part of 'The in crowd' and any other of a whole long list of insecurities and narcissistic concerns.
And I went to school with a gal that could rock a neck beard better than I ever could. Not intentionally mind you, but still. LOL.
When Diablo III came out, my older cousin bought it for my cousin who had introduced me into Diablo II, and she finished before him =P
I'm stating that pretty strong social pressures force girls to be less inept, not that the actual people are of a different nature. A much higher degree of anti-social behaviours are (or perhaps were, nowadays) tolerated in boys, which will affect people's behaviour. This is hardly something only I have noticed, its a huge complaint of 2nd wave feminism that girls are socially pressured to be docile, and either completely chaste or promiscuous, and boys raised to be 'tough', aggressive, and always desperately horny. The form 'social awkwardness' takes can vary based on very different social pressures/mores.