Looking to play an Archer kit throughout the Baldur's Gate games, wondering about arrows in BG2:EE
thelovebat
Member Posts: 218
I read up in older discussions about Archers and such that they're a really good kit to use in Baldur's Gate 1 with the Enhanced Edition, and from what I've played they are indeed a very good class to play in a party with a few melee fighters in the front while the Archer consistently hits his mark to wreak havoc on enemies (Elf Archers with bows rock). Due note that I haven't played Baldur's Gate 2 yet or its Enhanced Edition, I was just reading up information about the Archer kit itself some time ago before the BG2:EE came out.
I heard, however, that in the original Baldur's Gate 2 that Archers had trouble later in the game being a viable class to play because of ammunition with ranged weapons not scaling very well, since enemies require magical weapons of a certain power to be able to hit and there not being good enough ammunition in later portions to be able to hit certain enemies (or little enough quality ammunition/arrows to go around so you can hit enemies later in the game). One thing I heard specifically was that in Throne of Baal expansion there are some enemies which require +4 weapons or ammunition just to be able to hit them, but there weren't any kind of +4 ammunition available for ranged weapons to be able to do that in the game so Archers became gimped Rangers at that point needing to use melee weapons they weren't very skilled with while other party members carried the weight.
So I was just wondering since I wanted to play an Archer through the games and transfer my character over to BG2:EE, did Beamdog provide a solution in terms of ammunition for BG2 and ranged weapons for later in the game? I heard that ammunition was sorta gimped compared to that of BG1 (possibly intentionally) at least in the vanilla games, but all I need to know is if they made it viable to play an Archer all the way through to the end of BG2:EE. You can't kill what you can't hit right? And the main draw of an Archer is pelting enemies from a distance, having no late game viability with them in the sequel after having spent so much time playing that character through both games would be a big letdown to me. Especially if I want to try soloing with an Archer, which while it would be difficult I'd want to see if it was at least possible first.
Would appreciate any information about this, preferably without any spoilers. I've had a chance to play a good deal of BG1:EE but haven't beaten it yet, I just want to make sure playing an Archer won't end up throwing me for a loop when I get to playing BG2:EE later.
I heard, however, that in the original Baldur's Gate 2 that Archers had trouble later in the game being a viable class to play because of ammunition with ranged weapons not scaling very well, since enemies require magical weapons of a certain power to be able to hit and there not being good enough ammunition in later portions to be able to hit certain enemies (or little enough quality ammunition/arrows to go around so you can hit enemies later in the game). One thing I heard specifically was that in Throne of Baal expansion there are some enemies which require +4 weapons or ammunition just to be able to hit them, but there weren't any kind of +4 ammunition available for ranged weapons to be able to do that in the game so Archers became gimped Rangers at that point needing to use melee weapons they weren't very skilled with while other party members carried the weight.
So I was just wondering since I wanted to play an Archer through the games and transfer my character over to BG2:EE, did Beamdog provide a solution in terms of ammunition for BG2 and ranged weapons for later in the game? I heard that ammunition was sorta gimped compared to that of BG1 (possibly intentionally) at least in the vanilla games, but all I need to know is if they made it viable to play an Archer all the way through to the end of BG2:EE. You can't kill what you can't hit right? And the main draw of an Archer is pelting enemies from a distance, having no late game viability with them in the sequel after having spent so much time playing that character through both games would be a big letdown to me. Especially if I want to try soloing with an Archer, which while it would be difficult I'd want to see if it was at least possible first.
Would appreciate any information about this, preferably without any spoilers. I've had a chance to play a good deal of BG1:EE but haven't beaten it yet, I just want to make sure playing an Archer won't end up throwing me for a loop when I get to playing BG2:EE later.
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Also, you CAN melee almost as well as any Ranger, especially with Greater Whirlwind and a big, hardhitting two-handed weapon. Or, you can dual wield and use a Speed weapon in your off-hand and try Critical Strike and Haste.
It is true of course that there are some enemies in the game that require +4 to hit (and two enemies that require +5, though hardly anyone ever fights those), and that there is no +4 ammunition around anywhere. However, there are two weapons an Archer can use that naturally come with +4 ammo inbuilt: the crossbow Firetooth+4(+5 upgraded) and Short Bow of Gesen+4. Also keep in mind that the enemies requiring +4 or better are very few, only a couple of bosses in ToB. Additionally, in an unmodded game both crossbows and short bows (the two categories offering +4 ammo weapons) are in fact the best to choose given the available weapons, making it easy to have access to +4 ammo as needed.
In the early and mid game, Archers are DEVASTATING. They are incredibly powerful damage dealers, can avoid getting hit by most things, and have access to some of their best weapons incredibly early on in the game:
Tansheron's Bow+3 is a very useful short bow that fires unlimited +3 arrows (needed to kill certain golems etc.), can be bought in Trademeet after the Djinni quest.
Firetooth+4 is one of the best if not the best crossbow, can be bought outside Watcher's Keep from the very start of the game.
Light Crossbow of Speed+1 is a very good crossbow, can be bought at the Copper Coronet after the Slaver quest.
It is not uncommon for your Archer to hog the majority of party kills until well after the Underdark, and there is very little that stops them (Slimes, Otyughs, certain Golems are immune to missiles, but they are not that common). They also have amazing combat stats, being able to easily reach maximum Attacks Per Round with the right weapon and having access to a lot of powerful utility ammunition to deal with troublesome enemies.
Even in my own heavily modded games where the difficulty is cranked all the way to 11, Archer is basically the only fixture between all my setups. They are simply that good. Anyone who says they aren't "viable" in ToB likely doesn't even know what they mean by that, and/or are somehow under the impression that the last two chapters of ToB (when Archer power drops the most) are the entirety of the game rather than just a fraction of it.
There were a few times he needed +4 weapons.
Gessen's bow, firetooth crossbow, these two hit as +4 and do fine. There are +4 bullets and the magical sling that creates +4 bullets and even hit as +5. When push come to shove, my archer equipped that sling and wrecked the enemy. (see below how)
I could not find Gessens's bow and firetooth crossbow in my game, I have item randomiser mod mind you, and played a strict minimal reload, so I lost a few items. My archer could not hit the big bad final boss, so he had to equip the sling with +4 bullets:he had like two proficiency in slings. With a giant strength belt, (as sling damage benefits from strength) and innate archer damage bonuses, his damage output with a sling was very, very high, like easy 30+ damage with a hit. And he had greater whirlwinds so that's 10 attacks for 20-30 damage in a round. Not too shabby.
There are only a handful of creatures that require +4 weapons. There are quite more that require +3 weapons, and the +3 arrows and bolts are reserved just for them. With some planning and ammo management, an archer is a beast when it comes to do serious dpsing. More so than a kensai I daresay, because you can do the damage from perfect safety, most of the time.
Now, if you can get very high STR on your Archer somehow (potion, items, etc.) then with the right Sling and GWW they can deal even more damage than with a bow/crossbow. Of course, this requires a lot of fiddling and knowing what you are doing, but it's there!
You can also conjure Darts +5 from the Cloak of Stars available at the end of the Umar Hills quest, but EE fixed a trick where you could make the darts permanent by stuffing them into an Ammo Belt. Still, you can get 18 in one day if you save them up--each rest will get you 6--and that will be enough to break through Improved Mantle, and deal some extra damage against the very few enemies who are always immune to +3 weapons and below.
Also, Fire Seeds strike as +6 weapons and they work with Greater Whirlwind Attack. And they have a small area effect, so they can even bypass Protection from Magical Weapons.
I appreciate the number of responses I've gotten in this thread. This is mainly with playing single player since the options for party NPCs are set in stone for both games (barring fanmade NPCs modded in), but could also be helpful if I ever find a party of adventures to play through both games with so I know just how playing an Archer will work out in the long run. I had thought maybe they would have an additional longbow or a better sort of ammunition in the BG2:EE to make it where ranged characters like Archers or Fighter/Mages retained late game usefulness as far as their ranged skills are concerned.
For roleplaying purposes I had already played an Archer in BG1:EE who specialized in Longbows and dual wielding some swords in a pinch (since Rangers get some dual wielding points for free), and Elves get an attack bonus with some swords too. So for that reason I didn't know if that character would be gimped in the sequel just due to the lack of quality longbows that BG1 has (and the fact many of the fighter type NPCs in BG1 also specialize in longbows so I thought they were better for fighter type classes while short bows were better for thieves or those without high strength).
I had played vanilla BG1 before the Enhanced Editions had come out (again never beat the game though) so my impression of longbows was that they were better overall but some classes' best option was the shortbow which attacked faster and stuff. I hardly used them outside of thieves initially cus thieves were the only NPCs who had any points in them and longbows seemed better when I played BG1.
I do wish they'd added +4 ammo with the EEs, though. As it is, longbows are a bit of a trap for Archers, and while +4 ammo wouldn't have totally solved that, it would've helped.
Alternatively you could go get the Item Revisions mod, which heavily changes most items in the game to be more balanced and more competitive across weapon types. Longbows are the best bows there, but the mod does change a LOT and may not be for people who don't know the game well already.
Point being, I'm an Archer apologist. I think they get a bad name because people with no sense of perspective compare everything to an OP multi or dual class, not because there's anything wrong with them whatsoever. Sure, +4 ammo would be nice, or a longbow that hits as a +4, but in the meantime even longbows are still viable endgame as long as you have a backup weapon for the few enemies you can't hit.
I'm probably going to mod eventually, but I'm not at that point yet - so far the game has been keeping me hooked as is.
While longbows are ecplised by shortbows in bg2ee and crossbows, I'd suggest using slings mentioned above, or ideally, maxing shortbows after longbows. Assuming you drop a point in them at level 1, and you do all the sidequests, you should be right in on high mastery for shortbows by the end of SoA, and possibly grand Master if you do everything.
By the time you get to Cornwell to complete Gesen, as a ranger you're likely between 15 and 18 at least, assuming you put a point in Shortbow at character creation, that means you're somewhere between Mastery and High Mastery with Gesen when you get and need it.
Firetooth should be bought sooner or later as it has the useful non-magical weapon+fire damage combo.
Also note that the Gesen bow comes in parts, which are found separately.
By contrast, I have an archer in SoA with 5 pips in shortbows, using the Tugan bow and a bunch of +2 arrows. He's like an arrow firing gatling gun.
There is no reason to even let Anomen kill the guy; if you do, he never gets to become a knight, and is just less effective in general. Once he does achieve knighthood, he gets much less obnoxious. You can easily talk him out of doing something so rash.
Personally, I wouldn't bother with longbows since the difference in BG1 is negligable and if you pair up with Coran and give him the longbow and use armyschythe/short bow yourself, the dmg output of the party is enough to machinegun your way all through BG1.
You should aim for exceptional strenght since you can't specialize. The dmg and THAC0 bonuses you get still makes you a decent melee combatant, but you'll get less ARP, so I would get a pip in both short swords and scimitars to be able to dual weild kundane/belm when/if you feel like slugging it out in melee. But it's tedious to change weapons in the inventory though, so for the most part, you'll just machinegun through SoA as well. I would max out shortbows and use slings as backup or xbows and slings. There really is no point in having both shortbows and xbows since you will probably ending up favoring one over the other 95% of the time anyways. I'd choose shortbows over xbows for the easy access to Tuigans at the start of BG2.
So to sum up this rambling, at char creation, two pips in shortbows, and then scimis and/or shortswords and/or slings (slings not necessary until BG2 though). Have exceptional strenght for when you want to use sling and a melee weapon (STR bonus to dmg/THAC0). In BG1 you will have a plethora of great arrows to use, acid being my favorite easy-accessable choice, but in BG2 you will use the more mundane arrows of fire, +2 etc most of the time, but your dmg from the class and ARP will make you great anyways.
In BG1 I would pair up with Coran, but skip Kivan and Imoen. Put some meat in the front, doesn't matter who. Less stealing in BG1, but there alot of arrows to be found/bought to keep you stocked throughout.
In BG2 I would skip Mazzy, but use Jan with xbows (army schythe). Jan can steal arrows for you and bolts for himself. Same here, keep some meat in the front, like Keldorn.
Edit: found an grammatical error.
I'll have to do some research, but I'm pretty sure that I recall reading somewhere that if his alignment changes before the test, he won't get knighted, and becomes bitter as a result.