Recruiting the New NPCs

deltago

I have been thinking as to why a game like Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate two has so much replay value. One of the main reasons I believe is how the Player recruits characters. None are generally forced on the player like later games.

This became obvious to me while I was playing NWN2 and PoE and how the NPCs seem to be just plopped down in your path for you to recruit, and regardless of your intentions, want to travel with you regardless.

Compare that to Baldur's Gate where you cold have gone multiple play throughs without knowing about Alora scoping out the museum at night, or ever entering Kaigan's shop. You needed to explore to find these colourful characters and besides Imoen (and a lesser extent Minsc) none are forced on you. Depending on your Rep, some will jist simply walk away from you, knowing that you are not a character they want to associate themselves with.

BG2, there are more NPCs forced on you, however each one helps drive the plot when it happens. You still need to explore or take quests to find many of them and they all have their own motivation or reasons to help you. If you do not do all the quests, you can miss NPCs like Haer, Mazzy, Edwin, Cernd and Keldorn.

I hope SoD follows these models of recruitment for the new NPCs. I hope we need to explore the world to meet these colourful characters and they aren't just standing outside the first tavern. It is getting a bit cliche of stumbling towards a tavern and rescuing someone from a drunken brawl only having that person want to join up with you, no questions asked. Can it not be more like recruiting Garrick where if you do not wish to participate in the fight he will be willing to join you?

Just my hopes on the subject.

Dawglicious

I am willing to bet they will mostly be plopped down in front of you. You likely will already have the chance to recruit the Flaming Fist NPC before you even leave Baldur's Gate, and I wouldn't be surprised if the other new NPCs are encountered shortly after heading North.

I agree with you that it is fun to explore and find things on your own, but since people already know these 4 new NPCs exist and many will want to be able to use them when they want, having to go hunt for them wouldn't be best for those players.

JuliusBorisov

Yeah, it would be awesome to find one of the companions in the Underdark. I expect it to be the shaman:)

Also, I think that more or less, the EE companions plopped down in your path in BGEE. But with SoD it could be different.

But one thing has to be considered: if NPCs are long to be acquired, it can be bad: think about Tiax and Alora in BG1, Imoen in the Spellhold in BG2. When your party has been fully formed, it's hard to take place for a new NPC and to order one of your party members to go.

dunbar

It's just occurred to me that SoD could have an interesting affect on the way I recruit party members. I Like to form a cohesive unit so I tend not to chop and change party members as the situation changes, rather I go out of my to recruit npcs that will go through the whole game/saga with me. Now I can start with a party of 3 or 4 in BG1, recruit another 1 or 2 in SoD and finally complete the party in BG2 - it seems a more natural flow somehow.

abacus

What I really dislike are the forced dialogue type "recruitments"... I avoid that particular part of Beregost like the plague, because I don't particularly want to get drawn into an unavoidable fight (which on SCS can be quite tricky) and then have to make a yes/no choice for Neera (and the gem bag of course!).

Avenger_teambg

Can you avoid Yoshimo? or Aerie? Would you leave Jaheira or Minsc in their cage? I don't see how Neera is any different, you can boot her anytime. I don't see how the Neera encounter is any more dangerous than the Nimbul encounter or any of those assassination attempts in BGI.

shawne

I've said it before re: Neera in Beregost and I'll say it again - who says no to EXP?

deltago

Avenger_teambg said:

Can you avoid Yoshimo? or Aerie? Would you leave Jaheira or Minsc in their cage? I don't see how Neera is any different, you can boot her anytime. I don't see how the Neera encounter is any more dangerous than the Nimbul encounter or any of those assassination attempts in BGI.

My first BG2 playthrough, I missed the circus tent altogether. So yes, you can miss Aerie very easily.

You can't avoid Yoshimo as his plot is central to the game, however you can tell him to buzz off as soon as you see him.

You can't tell Neera to buzz off. You are forced into a fight regardless of how you role play the situation. It is different than a Nimbul or another assassination since those assassins are after you and not some random person your character may not give a care about.

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Nimran

Well, Garrick wasn't exactly being hunted, either. Given the urgency of her dilemma, as well as the disposition of the Thayans towards the party, getting into a fight seems pretty on-point.

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Nimran

For that, I blame the vanilla game. Why wouldn't Garrick see the party and say "Hey! I have a proposal for you!" We know that things like that happen as well in the vanilla game. Take the guy who runs from the bear and runs into your party. He talks to you, not the other way around. Then a bear appears that is already hostile. Now, that area is entirely optional, but so is the street where you run into Neera. There are no stores or important places situated along that road. Why is it considered a mandatory place to walk? There's nothing else there. If she was in the middle of town, that would be understandable, but she's not.

If the bear isn't enough of a comparison, then take Zordral, the crazy mage in the carnival. He attacks you pretty much no matter what choice you make in dialogue, and he's not doing it because he's after you. He also takes up residence in an optional area, but again, so is that road in Beregost. There's no reason to go down that way, save exploration, which is what leads you to those other encounters I mentioned. Perhaps people consider that road more important than I think it is, but I just don't see why.

I think the real problem is that Neera wasn't in the vanilla game, and some people don't like the new content, so they complain about the way her intro was done, which is, in fact, not all that different from how several encounters were made in the original, and that's perfectly fine. Why make excuses, though? If you don't like the new content, just say so.

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Nimran

typo_tilly said:

Yeah, and Dorn's encounter isn't [as?] complained about, eh? *-)

I think I resent Neera and the encounter because it's the only way to get the gem bag. And you have to join her then kick her out to get it.

Too true. That, I can understand.

It has also occurred to me that maybe the reason why Garrick doesn't approach the party is because he's in the very center of town, and the devs likely didn't want to force side quests on the player in such an obviously well-traveled area, at least not that early into the game.

deltago

typo_tilly said:

Yeah, and Dorn's encounter isn't [as?] complained about, eh? *-)

I think I resent Neera and the encounter because it's the only way to get the gem bag. And you have to join her then kick her out to get it.

Nope. Just deliver a well timed backstabbing amd the bag, along with all of its contents are yours.

Nimran

deltago said:

typo_tilly said:

Yeah, and Dorn's encounter isn't [as?] complained about, eh? *-)

I think I resent Neera and the encounter because it's the only way to get the gem bag. And you have to join her then kick her out to get it.

Nope. Just deliver a well timed backstabbing amd the bag, along with all of its contents are yours.

Or you could do this, I guess.

elminster

Nimran said:

typo_tilly said:

Yeah, and Dorn's encounter isn't [as?] complained about, eh? *-)

I think I resent Neera and the encounter because it's the only way to get the gem bag. And you have to join her then kick her out to get it.

Too true. That, I can understand.

It has also occurred to me that maybe the reason why Garrick doesn't approach the party is because he's in the very center of town, and the devs likely didn't want to force side quests on the player in such an obviously well-traveled area, at least not that early into the game.

Recruitable NPC's approaching you is just not something that is done with the original (BG1) NPCs. The only one that I can think of that does it is Imoen.

Its more of a BG2 thing.

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Nimran

elminster said:

Nimran said:

typo_tilly said:

Yeah, and Dorn's encounter isn't [as?] complained about, eh? *-)

I think I resent Neera and the encounter because it's the only way to get the gem bag. And you have to join her then kick her out to get it.

Too true. That, I can understand.

It has also occurred to me that maybe the reason why Garrick doesn't approach the party is because he's in the very center of town, and the devs likely didn't want to force side quests on the player in such an obviously well-traveled area, at least not that early into the game.

Recruitable NPC's approaching you is just not something that is done with the original (BG1) NPCs. The only one that I can think of that does it is Imoen.

Its more of a BG2 thing.

Also Viconia, for reasons similar to Neera.

shawne

typo_tilly said:

Yeah, and Dorn's encounter isn't [as?] complained about, eh? *-)

To be fair, Dorn's encounter doesn't trigger unless you talk to him at the Friendly Arm Inn first. If you wanted to avoid the Senjak/Dorotea encounter, you could.

The real problem with Neera is in BG2:EE - she turns up smack-dab in the middle of the Skinner quest. Rather inconvenient.

deltago

Nimran said:

elminster said:

Nimran said:

typo_tilly said:

Yeah, and Dorn's encounter isn't [as?] complained about, eh? *-)

I think I resent Neera and the encounter because it's the only way to get the gem bag. And you have to join her then kick her out to get it.

Too true. That, I can understand.

It has also occurred to me that maybe the reason why Garrick doesn't approach the party is because he's in the very center of town, and the devs likely didn't want to force side quests on the player in such an obviously well-traveled area, at least not that early into the game.

Recruitable NPC's approaching you is just not something that is done with the original (BG1) NPCs. The only one that I can think of that does it is Imoen.

Its more of a BG2 thing.

Also Viconia, for reasons similar to Neera.

except, you can let Viconia die and not interfere with the Flaming Fist. Same when she is on the pyre in BG2.

JuliusBorisov

I like that Mazzy doesn't plopp down in your path, you have to search for her. The same is with Keldorn, Cernd, Valygar, Haer'Dalis... You don't find them on the main plot path.

In BG1, there're even more options. Shar-Teel, Eldoth, Safana, Faldorn...

I think not the fact Neera, Rasaad and Dorn could be first met on the main path is a problem. The fact that all of them could be first met on the main path is a problem.

In this context, Baeloth's meeting is exactly what we need, I think.

To me, it would be excellent if one or two of new NPCs in SoD should be searched for because they're not presented in places you 100% visit while going through the main line.

Nimran

deltago said:

Nimran said:

elminster said:

Nimran said:

typo_tilly said:

Yeah, and Dorn's encounter isn't [as?] complained about, eh? *-)

I think I resent Neera and the encounter because it's the only way to get the gem bag. And you have to join her then kick her out to get it.

Too true. That, I can understand.

It has also occurred to me that maybe the reason why Garrick doesn't approach the party is because he's in the very center of town, and the devs likely didn't want to force side quests on the player in such an obviously well-traveled area, at least not that early into the game.

Recruitable NPC's approaching you is just not something that is done with the original (BG1) NPCs. The only one that I can think of that does it is Imoen.

Its more of a BG2 thing.

Also Viconia, for reasons similar to Neera.

except, you can let Viconia die and not interfere with the Flaming Fist. Same when she is on the pyre in BG2.

The point that I'm trying to make is that the issues people have with Neera have all been done before in the vanilla game. You might be able to let Viccy die to avoid a fight, but the other examples that I had listed do not have that option. The only difference is that the intended victims of those enemies are not joinable, and neither of them give you much that is worthwhile. I do think that Neera should give you her gem bag for saving her, even if you turn her down, but it's hardly a game breaker to not have it. BG has been played without a gem bag before. You don't need it to win, only to save some inventory slots.

Perhaps combining the two situations somehow made the encounter intolerable for some, but I certainly have no problem with it.

Edited for lack of relevance.