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New D&D Movie Announced, Forgotten Realms Mentioned

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  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,876
    What makes all of the D&D movies fail to interest me is basically their setting. All of their scenes are shot within forests, or castle towns, or similar medieval sceneries. It just feels so utterly repetitive and boring to me. The main reason why I also could never grow fond of Brithright or Greyhawk for that matter.

    What I would like to see is a movie that doesn't use any of such stuff. The Great Wheel of the Planescape campaign setting would be the best candidate. Though the Wildspace of the Spelljammer campaign setting would be fascinating as well. I'd even settle for a grim, psionic focused Dark Sun setting. As a rule of thumb: if the main setting takes place in an alien landscape devoid of medieval kitsch, I'd be inclined to watch it.

    On another note: It would be even better to have no human, elven or any other of the base races as characters amongst the main cast. Indeed, if the story would be told from the point of view of "monsters", *that* would be refreshing for a change! And let's be honest... wouldn't it be far more interesting to see the character growth of, I don't know, sentient oozes and puddings instead of the cheesy love story between yet-another-lolful-goody-little-two-shoes-human-and-his-elven/half-elven/human-archer/mage/warlock/whatever-sidekick?

    kcwiseShapiroKeatsDarkMage
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511

    Fardragon said:

    I will be surprised if it has parties or classes at all.

    Actually I'd be surprised if they didn't. The defined roles that made classic D&D were there for a reason. They are easily identified and identifiable and therefore easy to write into a story. Without having to reinvent the wheel, they can easily show a strapping guy in armor who uses a sword and you have your fighter. Put another character in robes with arcane symbols on it and casting magic spells and you have your Magic User. Etc...

    And since that is the essence of what D&D is perceived as, I'd be extremely surprised if they didn't do that.
    Given the names involved (and the past record of movie studios) I would be surprised if the writers have even a passing knowedge of D&D.

    kcwise
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    Fardragon said:

    Fardragon said:

    I will be surprised if it has parties or classes at all.

    Actually I'd be surprised if they didn't. The defined roles that made classic D&D were there for a reason. They are easily identified and identifiable and therefore easy to write into a story. Without having to reinvent the wheel, they can easily show a strapping guy in armor who uses a sword and you have your fighter. Put another character in robes with arcane symbols on it and casting magic spells and you have your Magic User. Etc...

    And since that is the essence of what D&D is perceived as, I'd be extremely surprised if they didn't do that.
    Given the names involved (and the past record of movie studios) I would be surprised if the writers have even a passing knowedge of D&D.
    Even more reason why they probably will in my view.

    Oh, I am not saying that the writers will say "This guy is only a 5th level fighter and so doesn't have enough skill points to wield two weapons at once (or whatever)", but you will very probably have the strong guy in the armor who is really good with a blade, the skinny (probably elvish) guy in the robes who casts spells, the (probably female) priestly figure who can heal wounds and uses a mace and the sneaky guy dressed in all leathers who is good at 'Borrowing' other people's property. Those are the usual tropes that are dredged out for this type of outing, particularly when written by people who aren't as well versed in D&D.

    They may not claim to be Fighter, wizard, cleric and thief (rogue?), but they will be that I'm pretty sure.

    atcDavekcwiseJuliusBorisov
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,427

    Fardragon said:

    Fardragon said:

    I will be surprised if it has parties or classes at all.

    Actually I'd be surprised if they didn't. The defined roles that made classic D&D were there for a reason. They are easily identified and identifiable and therefore easy to write into a story. Without having to reinvent the wheel, they can easily show a strapping guy in armor who uses a sword and you have your fighter. Put another character in robes with arcane symbols on it and casting magic spells and you have your Magic User. Etc...

    And since that is the essence of what D&D is perceived as, I'd be extremely surprised if they didn't do that.
    Given the names involved (and the past record of movie studios) I would be surprised if the writers have even a passing knowedge of D&D.
    Even more reason why they probably will in my view.

    Oh, I am not saying that the writers will say "This guy is only a 5th level fighter and so doesn't have enough skill points to wield two weapons at once (or whatever)", but you will very probably have the strong guy in the armor who is really good with a blade, the skinny (probably elvish) guy in the robes who casts spells, the (probably female) priestly figure who can heal wounds and uses a mace and the sneaky guy dressed in all leathers who is good at 'Borrowing' other people's property. Those are the usual tropes that are dredged out for this type of outing, particularly when written by people who aren't as well versed in D&D.

    They may not claim to be Fighter, wizard, cleric and thief (rogue?), but they will be that I'm pretty sure.
    Actually, I wouldn't mind a Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, and Thief party despite what I had previously said. I just hope they are a tad more unique. Like a Cleric of Kelemvor. That'd be cool n_n

    kcwise
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited August 2015

    Fardragon said:

    Fardragon said:

    I will be surprised if it has parties or classes at all.

    Actually I'd be surprised if they didn't. The defined roles that made classic D&D were there for a reason. They are easily identified and identifiable and therefore easy to write into a story. Without having to reinvent the wheel, they can easily show a strapping guy in armor who uses a sword and you have your fighter. Put another character in robes with arcane symbols on it and casting magic spells and you have your Magic User. Etc...

    And since that is the essence of what D&D is perceived as, I'd be extremely surprised if they didn't do that.
    Given the names involved (and the past record of movie studios) I would be surprised if the writers have even a passing knowedge of D&D.
    Even more reason why they probably will in my view.

    Oh, I am not saying that the writers will say "This guy is only a 5th level fighter and so doesn't have enough skill points to wield two weapons at once (or whatever)", but you will very probably have the strong guy in the armor who is really good with a blade, the skinny (probably elvish) guy in the robes who casts spells, the (probably female) priestly figure who can heal wounds and uses a mace and the sneaky guy dressed in all leathers who is good at 'Borrowing' other people's property. Those are the usual tropes that are dredged out for this type of outing, particularly when written by people who aren't as well versed in D&D.

    They may not claim to be Fighter, wizard, cleric and thief (rogue?), but they will be that I'm pretty sure.
    You are making the assuption that people outside your subculture know a lot more about it than they actually do.

    Guy with armour and a sword = fighter is NOT common knowledge, nor is what contitutes a typical party. What the writers do know is generic story-writing, so the story will focus on one main protagonist, not a party.

    kcwise
  • kcwisekcwise Member Posts: 2,287
    My hope is that they focus on a fun and compelling story. Ideally you would have details for fans of the D&D ruleset and Forgotten Realms setting, and a story that anyone can enjoy and follow. It's not an easy tightrope to walk though.

    What we'll probably get is some over the top action scenes with CGI monsters and a very basic Seek and Slay storyline.

    I'm going to laugh if they have an Elminster cameo though, because I can just imagine the audience reaction "What the heck is Gandalf doing here?" He'll have to do something "elminstery" like make out with an elf queen, so people know it's a different bearded wizard.

    Vain hope - A Minsc and Boo cameo! Worth the price of admission right there. :)

    JuliusBorisovmeagloth
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    kcwise said:

    He'll have to do something "elminstery" like make out with an elf queen, so people know it's a different bearded wizard.

    According to Peter Jackson, Gandalf does that kind of thing too.

    kcwisemeagloth
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    @Fardragon - actually I am only assuming that people DON'T have knowledge of the system, not that they have excessive amounts. As for the rest, I don't see your point. Why would a guy wear heavy armor and carry around a BIG sword unless he was planning on Fighting?

    However, I've made my case and have no real need to convince you of that. We will see when (if?) the movie comes out.

    scriverkcwise
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited August 2015

    @Fardragon - actually I am only assuming that people DON'T have knowledge of the system, not that they have excessive amounts. As for the rest, I don't see your point. Why would a guy wear heavy armor and carry around a BIG sword unless he was planning on Fighting?

    However, I've made my case and have no real need to convince you of that. We will see when (if?) the movie comes out.

    If I asked my wife to descibe a "fighter" she would probably describe a boxer. And that is after living with a gamer for 15 years. Talk about clerics and paladins, and you may as well discuss slithy turves and snarks. And Holywood (apart from Vin Diesel) knows even less.

    kcwise
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    When discussing a "Fighter", I might buy "Boxer". When discussing a "Fighter" in the context of a Fantasy 'Swords and Sorcery' movie or even in terms of Medieval settings, probably she wouldn't go there. But then that is merely my assessment.

    As for Hollywood, I can't speak for all of Hollywood, but if this movie were in the hands of some notables such as Ridley Scott, Peter Jackson, George RR Martin (writer, but still EP of Game of Thrones), Joss Weddon, Bryan Singer, JJ Abrams, John Boorman (director of Excalibur) just to name a very few, I think that they know a LOT about Medieval settings. And even if it weren't in such illustrious company, anyone who has SEEN movies from any of them, most notably The Lord of the Rings or the most recent Robin Hood outing with Russell Crowe, they probably know enough to fall into the same tropes I have described above.

    However I have no need or desire to sway your opinion. carry on.

    kcwise
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    I'd love to see them mix it up and have a woman be the main fighter/tank. Like Lux in the D&D:WOTDG movie. Another good one to make is a movie based on the Pool of Radiance novel. There is a female wizard who accidentally wishes herself into a 18 strength by having a "Ring of Wishes" on and trying to lift all her kit plus saddle and saddle bags and saying, idly, "I wish I was stronger…" And then accidentally Wishes herself to Phlan as well. The character's name was Shal (for short, I don't remember her longer, full name. The cleric (male) was Tarl Desanea (because he ends up marrying Shal, and I remember her name was Shal Desanea after they married) and the fighter/Thief (?) was Ren.

    kcwiseShapiroKeatsDarkMageStarflower2525MagpieRandoms
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    From the Wiki for the Pool of Radiance Book:

    When Shal Bal of Cormyr's master, Ranthor, receives a message from his old friend and fellow mage, Denlor of Phlan, whose tower is under siege by hundreds of monsters, Ranthor rushes to aid him. Shortly, Shal receives a message from Ranthor via crystal ball, during which he warns 'beware the copper dragon' and is murdered by an unknown assailant. Shal inherits Ranthor's familiar, a white horse named Cerulean, and Ranthor's various magical items, including a staff of power and a ring of three wishes. However, along the way to the Moonsea, when she wishes she were able to lift a large pack, she is turned into a hulking, seven foot tall giant by the ring. In her rage, she wishes she were at Phlan, and is teleported there instantly.

    Meanwhile, the cleric of Tyr, Tarl Desanea, watches his fellow clerics of Tyr killed by the undead of Valhingen Graveyard. Tarl and Anton are the only survivors, and Anton is grievously wounded by a vampire, who also steals the Hammer of Tyr, which the clerics were transporting from Vaasa. Though he manages to escape, the clerics inside Phlan can do little for Anton, aside from keeping him alive. Tarl, saddened and lost, goes out for a walk along the docks. He sees Shal crying and they soon become friends.

    Later, in the Laughing Goblin Inn, they meet Ren o' the Blade, a ranger-thief from Waterdeep. Shal looks remarkably like his murdered love Tempest, and they too become fast friends. However, when a brawl breaks out in the inn, the guards arrest the three and take them to the Council of Ten. Poryphyrs Cadorna is on night duty, and, seeing these are fairly strong adventurers, orders them to travel to Sokol Keep, a small island and keep in the harbor of Phlan, which is rumored to be haunted by undead.

    They clear Sokol Keep of orcs, and free the undead from their curse. Following this, Cadorna gives them several more missions, using them as his personal servants. In their spare time, they explore Denlor's Tower, and put Ranthor's body to rest.

    In their final mission from Cadorna, they are sent to kill the mad mage Yarash and end the poisoning of the Stojanow. Yarash, fearing they will discover his secrets, disembowels himself before their eyes. However, going through his archive, Shal finds several letters from Cadorna, promising him the ioun stones which are encrusted within Ren's daggers. They quickly return to Phlan, only to discover that Cadorna has murdered the First Councilman and in turn became the First Councilman. He attempts to have the three arrested, though they escape into Valhingen Graveyard. There they reclaim the Hammer of Tyr and set off to Valjevo Castle, the home of the mysterious 'Lord of the Ruins'. There they find Tyranthraxus, a possessed copper dragon. With the final power of the ring of three wishes, Shal wishes the dragon dead. However, Cadorna appears soon after, along with his court mage, Gensor. Cadorna is possessed by the spirit of Tyranthraxus, and dives into the Pool of Radiance, a mysterious pool filled with blood, to repower himself. He disappears in its depths. Gensor casts invisibility, and is not heard from again.

    The book ends with Shal trying on a dress for her wedding with Tarl.

    kcwiseStarflower2525
  • SquireSquire Member Posts: 512



    As for Hollywood, I can't speak for all of Hollywood, but if this movie were in the hands of some notables such as Ridley Scott, Peter Jackson, George RR Martin (writer, but still EP of Game of Thrones), Joss Weddon, Bryan Singer, JJ Abrams, John Boorman (director of Excalibur) just to name a very few, I think that they know a LOT about Medieval settings.

    I hope it's not, simply because, from my experience, Hollywood knows sod all about medieval clothing, armour etc. They like to just throw random bits of cloth, leather (usually in the style of a modern biker), hide, or whatever else they can find in whatever place they think will look cool, dye it all black or brown, and cover it in crap (because nobody ever washed in those days, apparently, and nobody knew how to dye clothing). Also, every soldier in the world has plate armour (it's standard issue for all recruits, apparently!) and swords are basically free. These are facts about the medieval period that I have learned from various Hollywood films.

    @LadyRhian what book is that? I'd be interested to read it, simply because I know quite a bit about Phlan and the Moonsea region, from playing on Tales of Moonsea all those years...not that I've read a fantasy novel of that style for a long time, but just seeing all of those familiar references you just posted made me all nostalgic! :D

    kcwise
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511

    When discussing a "Fighter", I might buy "Boxer". When discussing a "Fighter" in the context of a Fantasy 'Swords and Sorcery' movie or even in terms of Medieval settings, probably she wouldn't go there. But then that is merely my assessment.

    As for Hollywood, I can't speak for all of Hollywood, but if this movie were in the hands of some notables such as Ridley Scott, Peter Jackson, George RR Martin (writer, but still EP of Game of Thrones), Joss Weddon, Bryan Singer, JJ Abrams, John Boorman (director of Excalibur) just to name a very few, I think that they know a LOT about Medieval settings. And even if it weren't in such illustrious company, anyone who has SEEN movies from any of them, most notably The Lord of the Rings or the most recent Robin Hood outing with Russell Crowe, they probably know enough to fall into the same tropes I have described above.

    However I have no need or desire to sway your opinion. carry on.

    We already know it's not in the hands of any of those people, it's in the hands of a couple of hacks. It would have a better chance of being D&Dish if Vin Diesel where writing and directing. You remember The Sorcerer's Apprentice, "adapted" from the Spook's Apprentice? It will be a rerun of that, Nick Cage included.

    kcwiseMagpieRandoms
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    LadyRhian said:

    I'd love to see them mix it up and have a woman be the main fighter/tank.

    Ala, Xena warrior Princess? I'd totally watch that. I was a big fan of Xena back in the day (and was a bit disappointed that the rumors of it's return were premature).
    Squire said:


    I hope it's not, simply because, from my experience, Hollywood knows sod all about medieval clothing, armour etc. They like to just throw random bits of cloth, leather (usually in the style of a modern biker), hide, or whatever else they can find in whatever place they think will look cool, dye it all black or brown, and cover it in crap (because nobody ever washed in those days, apparently, and nobody knew how to dye clothing). Also, every soldier in the world has plate armour (it's standard issue for all recruits, apparently!) and swords are basically free. These are facts about the medieval period that I have learned from various Hollywood films.

    I share your concerns to a limited degree. I do feel that there are examples where this wasn't the style. But I also feel that it is worth noting that this is equal parts Hollywood directors/producers not knowing their genre AND the perception (note I say perception, not necessarily fact) that the general audience doesn't know any better either.

    When people go to see movies, they very often don't want to think overly much about the subject matter, they just want to be entertained. In that, often times the producers will Dumb down, glam up and generally exaggerate certain concepts so that people can walk into a theater, have a seat and be carried away without having to engage their brains. We see it a lot these days in modern cinema (here in the US). And that's fine as far as it goes. Just saying, don't think that all Hollywood directors are as dumb as all that. Some are playing to what the public wants.

    @Fardragon - yup. There are some BAD Hollywood directors. Just saying you can't generalize and say just because there are 'Some' bad directors that ALL Hollywood directors are bad. See the names I listed above as counterpoint.

    kcwise
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @Squire Pool of Radiance. It was followed by two sequels: Pools of Darkness and Pools of Twilight (which follows Shal and Tarl's son).

    kcwise
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited August 2015
    It's the writers who are bad, rather than the directors - Hollywood refuses to pay enough to get decent ones, and we already know the hack who has written this: David Leslie Johnson (who you might know from such movies as "The Conjuring 2" and "Wrath of the Titans").

    Pretty much all those good directors you mention - they write their own screenplays (with family and friends in Peter Jackson's case).

    You won't get a good director to take on a hack-written screenplay.

    kcwise
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    Personal opinion but I've seen bad screen plays made good by the right director and good screen plays hacked to pieces by the wrong director or producer or cast. I think you give way too much credit to the writers, and then take it away by claiming that they are hacks.

    As far as 'Wrath' is concerned, that was at least in part the terrible movie that it turned out to be because of what the producers wanted it to be, and what the director did with the script. Once a screen play is created, it has to be vetted by 'The money' and by the director. Either one can change or nix the entire project (in most cases), with usually the final word coming from 'The money'. What this means is that you don't know if what makes a given movie/program bad is the writers, the directors, the producers, the budget or any of a number of other factors.

    I am a big Classic Dr Who fan. For years, I had always heard that Colin Baker was 'The worst Doctor'. To see him in conventions (when he has a mind to speak about it at all), he says that he came in and read his lines and then went home. Any attempt on his part to change/improve the script was summarily dismissed. And he has commented that any monkey could have done his job, yet he sells himself quite short. They chose him for his presence and personality, and at least a few of the scripts were written with him in mind. Further, the work he has done as 'Old Sixy' in the Audio CDs has proven that he has clear talent and with that role.

    So, were the scripts and the writers bad? Clearly not as several script writers wrote for multiple Doctors and they were not all considered failures.

    Was it his performance? Again, clearly not because he does such a wonderful job in the Audios.

    Was it the production direction? Partially. It was made known that the higher ups wanted a 'New direction' for the show. But that new direction is actually quite reminiscent of what DID work for Chris Eccleston.

    My point is, you can't point fingers at any one factor and paint them 'The bad guy'. It takes a LOT of factors to make something right and any one of them can make it go wrong. It isn't all as black and white as some might claim.

    atcDavekcwisemeaglothSkatan
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428
    I remeber ''Azure Bonds'' had a woman fighter as the main character.

    the_spyderkcwise
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    The actual game 'Curse of Azure Bonds' had a prominent NPC female fighter, so I bet that the books were about her. I seem to remember reading the book WAY back in the mists of time but don't remember much about it.

    Back on topic(ish), I really hope that they DON'T make a female archer. I do not understand the desire to paint women as incapable of 'dusting it up' with fists/swords/pointy close range weapons etc... Give us a full on warrioress. Heck, make it SharTeel. That would be AWESOMENESS in my view.

    kcwiseSkatan
  • kcwisekcwise Member Posts: 2,287

    I remeber ''Azure Bonds'' had a woman fighter as the main character.

    Her name was Alias. She also appeared briefly in the FR D&D comics at the time. She was partnered up with a cool dinosaur paladin (saurial) named Dragonbait. Fun!

    I think someone mentioned Elaine Cunnigham's work before, but she had two series with strong, interesting females as leads.

    Erin Evans latest novels feature two tiefling sisters as the lead characters. Their adopted father is a dragonborn. Oh, and one of them is dating a devil. Yeah, those would certainly be a non-standard choice for movie heroes! :)

    the_spyderShapiroKeatsDarkMage
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    It's not just a matter of Wrath being bad. If you look on IMDB Johnson has never written anything GOOD.

    Certainly, a bad director, or producer, or whatever can wreck a good screenplay, but no-one, however talented, can make a decent movie out of a bad screenplay.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited August 2015

    Heck, make it SharTeel.

    But billbisco turned Shar Teel into an archer - that was why he was complaining that Corwin was a clone of Shar Teel.

    ;)

    bob_veng
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511

    I remeber ''Azure Bonds'' had a woman fighter as the main character.

    Whilst I haven't read Azure Bonds, I think the first MoonShae trilogy book (Darkwalker on Moonshae by Doug Niles) is more natural Hollywood-bait.

    It has young, attractive male and female protagonists, a comic-relief dwarf, an epic-evil antagonist, Celtic atmosphere, the opportunity for fancy VFX, and a plot which is both self-contained and sets up sequels if successful.

    atcDave
  • CaloNordCaloNord Member Posts: 1,807
    This will be a disaster.

    JuliusBorisovShapiroKeatsDarkMagelolien
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428
    CaloNord said:

    This will be a disaster.

    I have low expectations in fact.

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    Fardragon said:

    but no-one, however talented, can make a decent movie out of a bad screenplay.

    And here we strongly disagree. Nuff said.

    ShapiroKeatsDarkMage
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