@kanisatha , no, you're not alone. Finding out that there were other people who liked to express their ethics in games (points into the direction of @BelgarathMTH) was actually the main reason why I decided to register and participate in this forum, rather than just read as a guest.
@Wise_Grimwald , you're right, of course. I have Imoen with me, and of course she opens locks when in dungeons, or chests in enemy territory like the bandit camp or such things. But I'm still responsible for her actions, so I won't have her break into some unmarked house in the city, just because I think there might be something interesting inside.
Very interesting. I thought I was likely the only person who played this way, and in my case I don't even play as a paladin, yet as a good aligned character cannot bring myself to break into the home of an ordinary innocent person who's done me no harm and take their stuff - and of course even worse to kill them and take their stuff.
My good aligned characters make every effort not to kill anybody but the evil or those who have attacked them. I use a spell to detect alignment or if I don't have it Holy Smite. That spell only affects those who are evil, so good aligned characters don't react.
If my thief is not good, he/she might hide in the shadows and then go and find whatever he/she can.
As far as Imoen is concerned, she makes it clear that she quite likes to pick pockets etc. IMO she ought to be neutral, not of good alignment.
@Wise_Grimwald , you're right, of course. I have Imoen with me, and of course she opens locks when in dungeons, or chests in enemy territory like the bandit camp or such things. But I'm still responsible for her actions, so I won't have her break into some unmarked house in the city, just because I think there might be something interesting inside.
Very interesting. I thought I was likely the only person who played this way, and in my case I don't even play as a paladin, yet as a good aligned character cannot bring myself to break into the home of an ordinary innocent person who's done me no harm and take their stuff - and of course even worse to kill them and take their stuff.
My good aligned characters make every effort not to kill anybody but the evil or those who have attacked them. I use a spell to detect alignment or if I don't have it Holy Smite. That spell only affects those who are evil, so good aligned characters don't react.
If my thief is not good, he/she might hide in the shadows and then go and find whatever he/she can.
As far as Imoen is concerned, she makes it clear that she quite likes to pick pockets etc. IMO she ought to be neutral, not of good alignment.
Good or evil is all about intent, and sometimes picking a pocket or two can prevent a lethal fight. If I can have my thief swipe what is needed without bothering its current owner, that's one less person that the party has to put six feet under.
Of course, I almost invariably RP my thieves as being somewhat independent. While the rest of my party is resting in the inn, my thief is opening all those locked doors and chests nearby. I could see where that might push a thief into neutral territory, but merely being good at a skill wouldn't.
@Wise_Grimwald Imoen always struck me as the type to pick pockets for the fun and challenge is unlikely to actually keep the contents. She doesn't really seem to care much about gold or items.
I've mentioned this before in another thread, but the most powerful example of this situation is in one of the eastern (I think) areas of the city of Baldur's Gate where there is an unlocked house with some really good items including arguably the best helm in the game. When you enter the first floor, the butler appears and accosts you for having broken into his master's house. He's hostile so you have to kill him. Then, when you go upstairs, the homeowner appears and screams at you in anguish, asking why you had to break into his house and murder his butler, after which he attacks you forcing you to kill him as well. Two completely innocent people you end up murdering just for the nice magical items there.
Every time I play BG, I always end up not having the benefit of those awesome magic items because there's just no way I am ok with murdering those two people to get those items.
I would argue that people detecting as evil is not sufficient reason for a good person to kill them. Not sure if this counts as unpopular. I am also aware that that the city itself has a paladin detecting evil and attacking if you show up as such. But I always thought that was one of the dumbest encountered in the game.
Detect Evil is such a problematic concept anyway. If anything, it should be clear that the "Evil" detected means evil according to the standards of the particular Deity the caster is following. And the laws of the land shouldn't care one bit for wanton murder precipitated on "Detect Evil", unless that particular church possesses great influence. Always figured that the Paladin doing that in BG1 had some divine intel on Charname's Bhaalspawn nature.
I would argue that people detecting as evil is not sufficient reason for a good person to kill them. Not sure if this counts as unpopular. I am also aware that that the city itself has a paladin detecting evil and attacking if you show up as such. But I always thought that was one of the dumbest encountered in the game.
In RL we meet evil people all the time and of course we don't kill them. We don't even thump them, though we might wish that we could do that legally on occasion, but most evil people are not even criminals, but are just heartless.
Unpopular opinion: Since evil in D&D is a real force that can be accurately detected via magical means, Detect Evil should logically be used to execute or at least disempower evil folks in Faerunian society.
Unpopular opinion: A gang of paladin murder hobos would make a fun D&D campaign.
Xan should never have been given a moonblade. Per pnp he needs to be good aligned, selfless, and heroic to have one. As these are sentient weapons that choose their wielder he really shouldn't have it. In fact upon Xan's death any good aligned elf would have a better claim to it (I'm especially looking at you Kivan).
Also giving Xan a flaming +3 weapon just makes it seem to new players like they should be attacking with it. You know because it's a giant flaming sword.
Xan should never have been given a moonblade. Per pnp he needs to be good aligned, selfless, and heroic to have one. As these are sentient weapons that choose their wielder he really shouldn't have it. In fact upon Xan's death any good aligned elf would have a better claim to it (I'm especially looking at you Kivan).
Also giving Xan a flaming +3 weapon just makes it seem to new players like they should be attacking with it.
Why is that an unpopular opinion? It makes a lot of sense.
Xan should never have been given a moonblade. Per pnp he needs to be good aligned, selfless, and heroic to have one. As these are sentient weapons that choose their wielder he really shouldn't have it. In fact upon Xan's death any good aligned elf would have a better claim to it (I'm especially looking at you Kivan).
Also giving Xan a flaming +3 weapon just makes it seem to new players like they should be attacking with it. You know because it's a giant flaming sword.
This is where I would tell the PnP rules where to stick it because I love the implications especially with how Kulyok’s writing interpreted Xan’s character. The moonblade is a huge part of the reasons for Xan’s apathy, nihilism and pessimism, and constantly pushes for him to be better because he can be and is resistant to it. If he doesn’t do his part for elvenkind the blade punishes him and can even kill him. Xan is a living testament to how much being a moonblade wielder sucks.
I would say if a sword is threatening to kill its chosen wielder for not doing as it demands it's not a good aligned sword. Unless the command is to prevent them from taking an evil action.
A moonblade would just be demanding a new owner by that point.
Ultimately, though nothing in Xan's character suggests the sword is the reason for his view on things. People can have such views without it. But from a matter of lore and design it would be better if the benefits of the sword were conferred to him in another way. Giving one of the lowest health characters a flaming +3 melee only weapon is not good game design.
I still wish a good aligned charname had a quest to get a moonblade of their own. Moonblades are the coolest weapons in D&D IMO. My favorite character for !WD2 was a half orc paladin that dual wielded a moonblade and a holy avenger.
I still wish a good aligned charname had a quest to get a moonblade of their own. Moonblades are the coolest weapons in D&D IMO. My favorite character for !WD2 was a half orc paladin that dual wielded a moonblade and a holy avenger.
Install the Drizzt Saga. That is how you get one. I think that it is only useable by a good elf. You can only get it towards the end of BG1 though. It is a tough mod, but great fun. I will soon be going for that Moonblade in my game if I survive the Iron Throne and the Ducal Palace. (Just realised that no-one in the party can use one.
Know Alignment and Detect Evil are extremely situational and not very useful. That is why there should be a third level spell called "Know Alignment - Radius 10" that casts Know Alignment on all characters within a given radius (it could be larger too). It should also only give others the chance to save with a steep penalty.
Saving throws become just a hassle in this case because you can just save and reload. But this would give diviners a spell they could actually use their saving throw benefits from.
@Wise_Grimwald Isn't that one of those megamods with incredibly unbalanced loot, eneimes, and completetly borks the exp curce?
Both the enemies AND loot are indeed unbalanced which is why I leave it until AFTER the ducal palace.
That way, it is only the final battle that is affected.
Of course, it is possible to just play part of it. You have to play the Nine Hells part, but after that you have choices to make. I have just completed it and it was very enjoyable. The uber powerful loot matches the uber powerful enemies.
The first time of playing it, obviously you wouldn't know which parts you would miss out and which to do.
I missed out two uber powerful enemies, as I know for a fact that they would bring my no reload run to an end.
I think that when I go to SoD my experience will be reduced, but I have never played SoD after the Drizzt Saga, so I might be wrong about that.
Missing out SoD is also an option which I am considering. That way the uber powerful items will not be relevant as you lose them all in Irenicus' Dungeon.
^^That's UN-popular? Never would have guessed. I think it's only really used in the case of that paladin stronghold quest where you have to verify someone's identity, and otherwise is just window dressing.
Know Alignment and Detect Evil are extremely situational and not very useful. That is why there should be a third level spell called "Know Alignment - Radius 10" that casts Know Alignment on all characters within a given radius (it could be larger too). It should also only give others the chance to save with a steep penalty.
Saving throws become just a hassle in this case because you can just save and reload. But this would give diviners a spell they could actually use their saving throw benefits from.
I use them to decide what the right course of action is. e.g. in Northern BG who should you help Gervisse or the druid? There is a trader from a mod at the FAI who I discovered was evil using the spell.
If I hadn't, I might have used Holy Smite near him, and then I expect that he would have become hostile.
Going back to clubs again... the endgame Club of Detonation is an awesome weapon. The +5 version is the second-strongest one-handed weapon in the game for brute damage, and it's available a lot earlier than the Flail of Ages +5. Unless you're fighting with innocents nearby, that fireball chance is something you can afford to ignore.
I'm finishing of Baldur's Gate Arms and Armour Emporium at the moment https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/71447/baldurs-gate-arms-and-armour-emporium/p1 . Although I am thinking of creating more content (if there are people to join in) such as a Gnoll strong hold dungeon and finishing a bunch of half made dungeons, like a Drow dungeon and expanded Ulcaster and Ice Maze.
I feel that what stops a lot more content creation is really just a matter of demand and people to work with. It is not because I cannot do all the steps (which I can from idea to polished launch) but rather to replenish my moral after grinding out content (it is very costly on an effort standpoint to make high quality content x.x). Need more creative people for fun. @Wise_Grimwald
@Wise_Grimwald Why would you want to miss out on SoD?
Its the second part of the whole series!
I'll pass on the mod. I don't like mods that break the xp/difficulty curve.
I can understand you passing on the Drizzt Saga. I like it in itself as it is quite difficult. The fact that you lose most of the NPCs that you have there does stop you becoming way too powerful. Plus the fact that in SoD your experience is taken back to 500,000, (It was previously 618,472) . Thorin's was taken back to 500,000 too. The other characters' experience was about half that since they didn't take part in the Drizzt Saga.
I just like playing it for itself despite the fact that it makes Sarevok a bit too easy. However, I don't find that battle too hard anyway. It is the Ducal Palace that I find hardest, though in my current run that too was straightforward. Just beaten Sarevok a few minutes ago with Vynd, Drake, Tenya, Thorin and Xan. A most enjoyable game.
I used to be an solo only player but time made me realise that having six times the experience never gives you six times the inventory slots nor six times the amount of things you can do in a single round with a full party.
I think I'm one of the only people in the world whose favorite companion is Jaheira and least favorite is Viconia.
The funny part is that I don't think I disliked Viconia when I first played this game. In fact I think I actually quite liked her, but my opinion of her just got worse and worse over time and never went back up.
Comments
My good aligned characters make every effort not to kill anybody but the evil or those who have attacked them. I use a spell to detect alignment or if I don't have it Holy Smite. That spell only affects those who are evil, so good aligned characters don't react.
If my thief is not good, he/she might hide in the shadows and then go and find whatever he/she can.
As far as Imoen is concerned, she makes it clear that she quite likes to pick pockets etc. IMO she ought to be neutral, not of good alignment.
Good or evil is all about intent, and sometimes picking a pocket or two can prevent a lethal fight. If I can have my thief swipe what is needed without bothering its current owner, that's one less person that the party has to put six feet under.
Of course, I almost invariably RP my thieves as being somewhat independent. While the rest of my party is resting in the inn, my thief is opening all those locked doors and chests nearby. I could see where that might push a thief into neutral territory, but merely being good at a skill wouldn't.
Every time I play BG, I always end up not having the benefit of those awesome magic items because there's just no way I am ok with murdering those two people to get those items.
In RL we meet evil people all the time and of course we don't kill them. We don't even thump them, though we might wish that we could do that legally on occasion, but most evil people are not even criminals, but are just heartless.
Unpopular opinion: A gang of paladin murder hobos would make a fun D&D campaign.
Also giving Xan a flaming +3 weapon just makes it seem to new players like they should be attacking with it. You know because it's a giant flaming sword.
Why is that an unpopular opinion? It makes a lot of sense.
This is where I would tell the PnP rules where to stick it because I love the implications especially with how Kulyok’s writing interpreted Xan’s character. The moonblade is a huge part of the reasons for Xan’s apathy, nihilism and pessimism, and constantly pushes for him to be better because he can be and is resistant to it. If he doesn’t do his part for elvenkind the blade punishes him and can even kill him. Xan is a living testament to how much being a moonblade wielder sucks.
A moonblade would just be demanding a new owner by that point.
Ultimately, though nothing in Xan's character suggests the sword is the reason for his view on things. People can have such views without it. But from a matter of lore and design it would be better if the benefits of the sword were conferred to him in another way. Giving one of the lowest health characters a flaming +3 melee only weapon is not good game design.
An excellent mod which makes him into a useable NPC.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/73654/n-p-c-item-pack-xans-new-groove-version-1-0-release/p1
I did have a mod installed that allowed me to change his kit to Illusionist or some other type of mage. This mod caused me not to use it any more.
And about Xan's courage, I think he is an example of courage - right beside Khalid.
Courage is not the lack of fear but the ability of doing what you have to do despite how frightened you feel.
Install the Drizzt Saga. That is how you get one. I think that it is only useable by a good elf. You can only get it towards the end of BG1 though. It is a tough mod, but great fun. I will soon be going for that Moonblade in my game if I survive the Iron Throne and the Ducal Palace. (Just realised that no-one in the party can use one.
Saving throws become just a hassle in this case because you can just save and reload. But this would give diviners a spell they could actually use their saving throw benefits from.
Both the enemies AND loot are indeed unbalanced which is why I leave it until AFTER the ducal palace.
That way, it is only the final battle that is affected.
Of course, it is possible to just play part of it. You have to play the Nine Hells part, but after that you have choices to make. I have just completed it and it was very enjoyable. The uber powerful loot matches the uber powerful enemies.
The first time of playing it, obviously you wouldn't know which parts you would miss out and which to do.
I missed out two uber powerful enemies, as I know for a fact that they would bring my no reload run to an end.
I think that when I go to SoD my experience will be reduced, but I have never played SoD after the Drizzt Saga, so I might be wrong about that.
Missing out SoD is also an option which I am considering. That way the uber powerful items will not be relevant as you lose them all in Irenicus' Dungeon.
I use them to decide what the right course of action is. e.g. in Northern BG who should you help Gervisse or the druid? There is a trader from a mod at the FAI who I discovered was evil using the spell.
If I hadn't, I might have used Holy Smite near him, and then I expect that he would have become hostile.
I'm finishing of Baldur's Gate Arms and Armour Emporium at the moment https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/71447/baldurs-gate-arms-and-armour-emporium/p1 . Although I am thinking of creating more content (if there are people to join in) such as a Gnoll strong hold dungeon and finishing a bunch of half made dungeons, like a Drow dungeon and expanded Ulcaster and Ice Maze.
I feel that what stops a lot more content creation is really just a matter of demand and people to work with. It is not because I cannot do all the steps (which I can from idea to polished launch) but rather to replenish my moral after grinding out content (it is very costly on an effort standpoint to make high quality content x.x). Need more creative people for fun. @Wise_Grimwald
Its the second part of the whole series!
I'll pass on the mod. I don't like mods that break the xp/difficulty curve.
I can understand you passing on the Drizzt Saga. I like it in itself as it is quite difficult. The fact that you lose most of the NPCs that you have there does stop you becoming way too powerful. Plus the fact that in SoD your experience is taken back to 500,000, (It was previously 618,472) . Thorin's was taken back to 500,000 too. The other characters' experience was about half that since they didn't take part in the Drizzt Saga.
I just like playing it for itself despite the fact that it makes Sarevok a bit too easy. However, I don't find that battle too hard anyway. It is the Ducal Palace that I find hardest, though in my current run that too was straightforward. Just beaten Sarevok a few minutes ago with Vynd, Drake, Tenya, Thorin and Xan.
The funny part is that I don't think I disliked Viconia when I first played this game. In fact I think I actually quite liked her, but my opinion of her just got worse and worse over time and never went back up.