Minsc gets one moment of being completely out of control in BG1 when he’s desperate and in a foreign land alone with no one to reason with him. When he’s got someone to lead him (Dynaheir or the PC) he’s completely tame. In BG2 he can even reason with himself not to attack Edwin, his arch-enemy, during the Thieves Guild questline.
Minsc’s a very good guy, he just needs someone more intelligent to guide him in the right direction.
On one of my first ever playthroughs I took Edwin and Minsc along.
In the underdark heading for Ust Nathar, he attacked Edwin and killed him. Considering the circumstances "in game", that cannot ever be seen as the actions of a "good guy".
Oh no, somebody said something mean and I am so triggered.
@UnderstandMouseMagic Yes, how dare Minsc attack the evil wizard whose order maintains an entire nation of slaves and believes that every non red wizard is below them and has no value as a person. Wait...
Oh no, somebody said something mean and I am so triggered.
Literally my first experience with Minsc. Going somewhere else with a full party. "Help me rescue someone I'm supposed to be protecting" "Nah" "Enjoy being one shot chunked you lawful good bastard!"
@UnderstandMouseMagic Yes, how dare Minsc attack the evil wizard whose order maintains an entire nation of slaves and believes that every non red wizard is below them and has no value as a person. Wait...
Did you not understand why I put the qualifier "considering the circumstances "in game"?
Anyway, Edwin is right, every non red wizard is below them. Bhaalspawn get a pass, divinity top trumps.
Since Minsc has come up a few times as of late I thought I would mention him again. One thing that really bugs me about Drizzt and Minsc - Both attack you immediately if you reply that you don't want to get involved in their quests/fights and try to move on. Real nice guys, ain't they. Shoot, Drizzt is taking on what looks like half a gnoll camp without breaking a sweat, and no telling how many townsfolk Minsc might have murdered given the most likely response from them was "Leave me be. I don't want to get involved". It seems even worse if one is playing a solo 1st lvl character and could very likely be killed be doing either job (as far as they know). Imagine a 1st lvl priest of Lathander or something. He's just going around handing out tracts inviting everyone to the weekly 'bring and buy' sale to help the poor, and is potentially accosted and killed by these two supposedly 'good' thugs in the making.
Now I have played a few good characters, but never acted like that. Even Dirty Harry, using the 'good is not soft', and 'good is not nice' tropes, which I use playing 'good', doesn't do that kinda thing.
And a few yards away the "evil" NPC asks you to kill a witch and when you say no, wanders off.....
Just as an aside and a bit OT. What happens should you turn up with Edwin and Dynaheir in party when you meet the RW by the ruined temple? She's never lasted that long for me.
And a few yards away the "evil" NPC asks you to kill a witch and when you say no, wanders off.....
Just as an aside and a bit OT. What happens should you turn up with Edwin and Dynaheir in party when you meet the RW by the ruined temple? She's never lasted that long for me.
And then said evil wizard ambushes you later in the wilderness with three friends and proceeds to murder you.
And a few yards away the "evil" NPC asks you to kill a witch and when you say no, wanders off.....
Just as an aside and a bit OT. What happens should you turn up with Edwin and Dynaheir in party when you meet the RW by the ruined temple? She's never lasted that long for me.
And then said evil wizard ambushes you later in the wilderness with three friends and proceeds to murder you.
Explain please, not being saki, genuinely don't understand this post. What happens?
If you refuse Edwin he says he will get even with you and leaves. In a certain wilderness map (the one with the three random red wizards), Edwin appears with them and taunts you before attacking with the other Red Wizards.
If you refuse Edwin he says he will get even with you and leaves. In a certain wilderness map (the one with the three random red wizards), Edwin appears with them and taunts you before attacking with the other Red Wizards.
It's never happened to me, but then I don't usually speak to him. He's not a nice person.
If you refuse Edwin he says he will get even with you and leaves. In a certain wilderness map (the one with the three random red wizards), Edwin appears with them and taunts you before attacking with the other Red Wizards.
Seriously?! This can happen? I have never seen this.
Still new things to experience in BG1 after 18 years of playing...
@ThacoBell , @Raduziel , That Edwin thing has got to be a mod. I've fought those red wizards in the eastern wilderness map a hundred times after telling Edwin to get lost in Nashkel, and I have never seen any such encounter.
Oh no, somebody said something mean and I am so triggered.
Literally my first experience with Minsc. Going somewhere else with a full party. "Help me rescue someone I'm supposed to be protecting" "Nah" "Enjoy being one shot chunked you lawful good bastard!"
Your Honor, my client pleads "Not guilty by reason of insanity." He was not able to appear before you today, because when we told him he couldn't bring his pet hamster into the courthouse, he went berserk and seriously injured three officers before we could restrain him. He is currently being held under heavy medication at Smith Psychiatric.
It might make a fascinating "Law and Order" episode, actually.
That's how it would go down in our world. In the Forgotten Realms world, he's actually fine as long as he's not separated from Dynaheir and/or Boo. If you have the insight to see this, you will help him and get two of the most powerful allies available to you in the game. Only a low wisdom character (or a low wisdom player), or a non-good character or player, would refuse to help him in the first place. The man is obviously in a child-like state of desperation, and is not of sound mind.
I question whether your "lawful good bastard" was being true to his alignment. If I'm the DM, that's 100 neutrality points to you, and if you're a paladin in my campaign, you are dangerously close to being told you're now lawful neutral, and have lost your paladin abilities.
(shrug) well, I had already made two independent promises to check out the mine and i couldnt exactly kick out someone like imoen on the outskirts of a strange town. I *had* meant no in more of a "maybe later" kind of way. Bit beyond my control that the only no options were so rude.
That said, i did eventually come back to help him, and my second experience with Minsc was wondering what his ability did and again getting oneshot by him.
I question whether your "lawful good bastard" was being true to his alignment. If I'm the DM, that's 100 neutrality points to you, and if you're a paladin in my campaign, you are dangerously close to being told you're now lawful neutral, and have lost your paladin abilities.
That's pretty flagrant railroading right there. "Do this quest, or lose your paladin class!" Quite apart from in-character objections, such as being in a hurry to conduct other quests, or having a full party, or perhaps being too injured to fight, taking away player agency that aggressively is unkosher out of character. Hell, that would be much worse in the context of a pen and paper campaign, since at least in the game you have the option of not clicking on Minsc at all. No such option in tabletop to not hear the cry of But Thou Must.
@Abi_Dalzim Not for a paladin. Choosing a paladin means accepting a lot of sacrifice and inconvenience. In the words of a great superhero, “You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred”.
Not for a paladin. Choosing a paladin means accepting a lot of sacrifice and inconvenience.
that'd make for a neat story structure. the big bad deals with a thorn in their side paladin by instructing their minions to not burn and pillage, but to go around putting cats in trees. the paladin will have to get them all down or lose their powers! buahahaha
@BelgarathMTH Really? I've never turned down Edwin and not had that happen. Then again, I usually don't talk to him to begin with. If I had to hazard a guess, NPCproject is the most likely mod to add this.
I think a big problem with Minsc's introduction is you basically have two options. Either enthusiastically join him, or rudely blow him off. Alone he is dangerous, but with just a little grounding, he is one the most good companions in basically any story I've engaged with.
Black Pits is the closest thing to sports in Baldur's Gate and the Forgotten Realms (except that the Goliaths, an unlikely race living who knows where, apparently play goat-ball; but they weren't around in 2nd edition). So that's all fighting, killing, and going into a consumist spree between fights. Nice.
Come on, Beamdog, we need some Bloodbowl in Baldur's Gate. My party of six can make a good futsal team with one substitute. I want to win the basketball title with a party of gnomes (is all about keeping possession).
Not for a paladin. Choosing a paladin means accepting a lot of sacrifice and inconvenience.
that'd make for a neat story structure. the big bad deals with a thorn in their side paladin by instructing their minions to not burn and pillage, but to go around putting cats in trees. the paladin will have to get them all down or lose their powers! buahahaha
With the Gorion role filled by Henry Cabot Henhouse III.
It seems like there's been more randomization of item drops at some point down the line, and I can't shake the sense that some perverse incentives have resulted. Traditionally, I like to minimize fighting with the Copper Coronet guards while I free Hendak, but now I have to balance against the very real possibility that some of the bouncers might have level 6 or even level 7 spell scrolls on them, and it feels very, very wrong.
@Abi_Dalzim You try to avoid fighting the slavers while freeing slaves?
Well, not for roleplay reasons, but because they gave so little challenge, loot or xp, I'd usually do things like sneak up to the first guard that challenges you and backstab him. Killing him before he says anything prevents the other guards there from spawning and saves me a few minutes. But now, I worry I'll miss a scroll of Death Spell or Mass Invisibility or something.
@Abi_Dalzim You try to avoid fighting the slavers while freeing slaves?
Some would want to free slaves without killing anyone. It is a perfectly reasonable rationale to be kind to everyone no matter what they are like. We currently have a problem with slavery being imported into Europe, but we imprison the slavers. We don't kill them.
Comments
In the underdark heading for Ust Nathar, he attacked Edwin and killed him. Considering the circumstances "in game", that cannot ever be seen as the actions of a "good guy".
Oh no, somebody said something mean and I am so triggered.
The original "where's my safespace" snowflake.
I hate the bloody hamster too.
Going somewhere else with a full party.
"Help me rescue someone I'm supposed to be protecting"
"Nah"
"Enjoy being one shot chunked you lawful good bastard!"
Anyway, Edwin is right, every non red wizard is below them.
Bhaalspawn get a pass, divinity top trumps.
It seems even worse if one is playing a solo 1st lvl character and could very likely be killed be doing either job (as far as they know). Imagine a 1st lvl priest of Lathander or something. He's just going around handing out tracts inviting everyone to the weekly 'bring and buy' sale to help the poor, and is potentially accosted and killed by these two supposedly 'good' thugs in the making.
Now I have played a few good characters, but never acted like that. Even Dirty Harry, using the 'good is not soft', and 'good is not nice' tropes, which I use playing 'good', doesn't do that kinda thing.
@Zaghoul
Yep.
And a few yards away the "evil" NPC asks you to kill a witch and when you say no, wanders off.....
Just as an aside and a bit OT.
What happens should you turn up with Edwin and Dynaheir in party when you meet the RW by the ruined temple?
She's never lasted that long for me.
Explain please, not being saki, genuinely don't understand this post.
What happens?
Still new things to experience in BG1 after 18 years of playing...
How much XP does he gives?
It might make a fascinating "Law and Order" episode, actually.
That's how it would go down in our world. In the Forgotten Realms world, he's actually fine as long as he's not separated from Dynaheir and/or Boo. If you have the insight to see this, you will help him and get two of the most powerful allies available to you in the game. Only a low wisdom character (or a low wisdom player), or a non-good character or player, would refuse to help him in the first place. The man is obviously in a child-like state of desperation, and is not of sound mind.
I question whether your "lawful good bastard" was being true to his alignment. If I'm the DM, that's 100 neutrality points to you, and if you're a paladin in my campaign, you are dangerously close to being told you're now lawful neutral, and have lost your paladin abilities.
That said, i did eventually come back to help him, and my second experience with Minsc was wondering what his ability did and again getting oneshot by him.
I think a big problem with Minsc's introduction is you basically have two options. Either enthusiastically join him, or rudely blow him off. Alone he is dangerous, but with just a little grounding, he is one the most good companions in basically any story I've engaged with.
Come on, Beamdog, we need some Bloodbowl in Baldur's Gate. My party of six can make a good futsal team with one substitute. I want to win the basketball title with a party of gnomes (is all about keeping possession).
Somebody get me Jay Ward’s estate on the phone