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Creating a powerful enough mage

Hi,
i want to play as a caster type through the whole two games.
my problem is, that i just can't stand, that there is a possible companion, that outmatches my abilities by far (Edwin).
as PC i want to feel special, and a pure mage (no dual or multi) will never get to the casting arsenal, that edwin has.
so my question:
is there a way to get more powerful than edwin? (preferably without mods)
is there a dual/multi that is in your opinion special enough? (no Fighter/mage please, i already have a save for that)
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Comments

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @mahe4 Wild mage would be the only one significantly different from Edwin. It can also be very powerful.

    As for duals and multis, they are all worthwhile. Cleric, fighter, thief.
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,307
    Yeah, Sorcerer is probably what you're looking for... Make Edwin more of a tactical option... taking a nice spread of utility spells, whilst your main character takes all the heavy artillery.

    Cleric/Mage will also be powerful, you'll always be less powerful than Edwin with your arcane stuff, but will be able to create great synergies with your divine slots.
  • mahe4mahe4 Member Posts: 60
    thanks for the fast answers :smiley:
    can you get to a point where you can cat nahals reckless dweomer with a 100% success chance?

    i also thought about sorcerer and it is currently number one on my list that i would choose.

    is there a guide that shows the cleric/mage synergies in detail?
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @mahe4: In vanilla BG2, you can get 100% success with NRD by stacking 3 Chaos Shields in a Chain Contingency. Chain Contingency bypasses the rule that prevents them from stacking. You can also cast NRD for free if you map it to a hotkey. If you're willing to use exploits, Wild Mages can actually cast infinite spells with a constant effect Improved Alacrity.

    In EE, I understand stacking Chaos Shields is impossible, but you can increase your success rate with the Robe of Goodman Hayes or some such.

    There are too many possibilities for a cleric/mage to describe in full detail. But I did a no-reload SCS2 run of BG2 and ToB that features Aerie and a Cleric of Lathander(11)->Mage, in which I tried to make spellcasters function as fighter types. It's documented here:
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/38312/the-party-of-spiders-no-reload-scs2-run/p1

    @Alesia_BH has also recently completed a no-reload run with Aerie as a prominent tank. It's mentioned in the no-reload thread on the Bioware forums, last mentioned on page 540 or so.
  • mahe4mahe4 Member Posts: 60
    is a cleric/mage multi worthwhile, with quayle in bg1 and aerie in bg2?
    or do they fit that role already perfectly?
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Are you planning to use those two? Even if you are, the class has so many options you can play them completely different.
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    -gear makes people special there is only one Robe of Vecna in the game capitalize on that. also Edwin cant cast True Sight which is a fairly important spell in bg2 and cant wear the Amulet of Power which is a fairly important item.. in bg2. In short it is very possible to surpass Edwin.. in bg2. :smiley: ..
    -cleric/mage is one of the weaker classes in the game, although with enough attention and resting every class has been soloed already.

    Otherwise pick a sorcerer its heaps more powerful than Edwin due to its adaptability especially with clone spells
  • mahe4mahe4 Member Posts: 60
    thanks for the advice everyone, it's really appreciated :smile:
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited August 2015
    Roller12 said:

    -gear makes people special there is only one Robe of Vecna in the game capitalize on that. also Edwin cant cast True Sight which is a fairly important spell in bg2 and cant wear the Amulet of Power which is a fairly important item.. in bg2. In short it is very possible to surpass Edwin.. in bg2. :smiley: ..
    -cleric/mage is one of the weaker classes in the game, although with enough attention and resting every class has been soloed already.

    Otherwise pick a sorcerer its heaps more powerful than Edwin due to its adaptability especially with clone spells

    Clerics and druids can cast true sight, so can Keldorn. While true sight is good, it's not 'awesome, can't play without it' and you should be using your cleric slots for that.

    I find it ironic when you praise the sorcerer for its adaptability, when the truth is that it's the mage that have adaptability and the sorcerer doesn't. While you can pick spells on your sorcerer to handle most situations, the mage can adapt much easier by changing their spells whenever needed. The sorcerer is very powerful and on some points more powerful than the mage, but the one thing mage have is the option to change and adapt depending on the encounter.
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    They can but with cast time 8, which is disadvantage especially if Edwin is in the middle of Improved Alacrity and the enemy is in process of casting something. That forces Keldorn into the party. Except Keldorn and Edwin are incompatible and will fight to the death.
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,977
    edited August 2015
    Edit
    You can go my route and never use him, because literally, I've never used Edwin once. And in bg1 Baeloth is going to put play your Sorcerer.
    bengoshi said:

    First of all, the number of spells Edwin can cast is unmatched.

    A sorcerer can be seen as someone who's better than Edwin because of the nature of her class - she chooses exactly which spells she needs and can cast them whenever she needs. Do you need 3 webs? Or 3 invisibilities? Or maybe 3 Mirror Images? Or 3 Meteors?

    I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it, with that said, wild mage stands unchallenged, Edwin can suck a duck!
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689

    Edit
    You can go my route and never use him, because literally, I've never used Edwin once. And in bg1 Baeloth is going to put play your Sorcerer.

    bengoshi said:

    First of all, the number of spells Edwin can cast is unmatched.

    A sorcerer can be seen as someone who's better than Edwin because of the nature of her class - she chooses exactly which spells she needs and can cast them whenever she needs. Do you need 3 webs? Or 3 invisibilities? Or maybe 3 Mirror Images? Or 3 Meteors?

    I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it, with that said, wild mage stands unchallenged, Edwin can suck a duck!
    Then you start playing no-reload and the wild mage is pretty much useless, the few that have completed BG:EE (don't think anyone completed BG2:EE) was without casting any spells and only using wands. The wild mage is only as powerful as the amount of reloads you have, especially on low-mid level. :smiley:
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,977
    SionIV said:

    Edit
    You can go my route and never use him, because literally, I've never used Edwin once. And in bg1 Baeloth is going to put play your Sorcerer.

    bengoshi said:

    First of all, the number of spells Edwin can cast is unmatched.

    A sorcerer can be seen as someone who's better than Edwin because of the nature of her class - she chooses exactly which spells she needs and can cast them whenever she needs. Do you need 3 webs? Or 3 invisibilities? Or maybe 3 Mirror Images? Or 3 Meteors?

    I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it, with that said, wild mage stands unchallenged, Edwin can suck a duck!
    Then you start playing no-reload and the wild mage is pretty much useless, the few that have completed BG:EE (don't think anyone completed BG2:EE) was without casting any spells and only using wands. The wild mage is only as powerful as the amount of reloads you have, especially on low-mid level. :smiley:
    Really, because I play reload, and never ones got a end game wild surge... So I'm lost on how a wild mage is useless in a no reload run. Then again, I'm also lost on how no reload runs are even fun since they are usually done by people who seem to know damn near everything about the game, from every dialogue option to the location of every trap... I tend to get bored as hell when I know a game like baldurs Gate that damn well.
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    Sorcerer and wild Mage are both more powerful than Edwin after level 2.
  • mahe4mahe4 Member Posts: 60
    meagloth said:

    Sorcerer and wild Mage are both more powerful than Edwin after level 2.

    i can understand, how one would argue, that a sorcerer would be more powerful on lvl 2, but a wild mage?
    on high level, okay, but lvl 2?
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    Edwin is only special because of his amulet. A mage Charname with Int20, the wizard rings, robe of Vecna, and who dual classes from a fighter-3 to use the blade of dakkon for more spells (and who can hold the shield of reflection to be immune to all ranged attacks) will blow him out of the water.

    Of just roll a sorceror and revel in how you always have the tool you want when you need it.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited August 2015
    Grum said:

    Edwin is only special because of his amulet. A mage Charname with Int20, the wizard rings, robe of Vecna, and who dual classes from a fighter-3 to use the blade of dakkon for more spells (and who can hold the shield of reflection to be immune to all ranged attacks) will blow him out of the water.

    Of just roll a sorceror and revel in how you always have the tool you want when you need it.

    Intellect sadly doesn't matter.
    Edwin can have the Wizard rings and robe of Vecna

    Even dual classed with the blade of Dakkon, Edwin has more spells. The blade only grants bonus low level spells, Edwin gains +1 for each spell level, meaning he'll also get a +1 level 9 spell and all in all he'll gain 9 additional spells, more than the blade in question gives you. Secondly a dual classed character won't be able to get mage specialist, which gives Edwin 2 more spells for each level.

    so no. :dizzy:
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    Amount of spells isn't everything. I rarely find myself using up my spell book during a fight. I'd actually argue that having 3 levels of fighter is more useful.

    (1) You can use shields. The shield of reflection stands out as an example, making you immune to all missile fire. It also drastically pushes down your AC.
    (2) Grand Mastery. It may not seem like much, but there are enemies who it just isn't work casting spells against. Having 5* in slings along with str19...it can be downright useful. It also helps alot in dead magic zones.

    If you try to beat Edwin in the spell amount department, you are going to have a bad day.
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054
    Cleric/Mage. All the awesome and all the spells.
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    edited August 2015
    Wowo said:

    @Roller12 cleric/mage is definitely one of the most powerful builds in the game.

    Im curious where does this "definitely" come from? This class has lots of magic tools so there is no need to list me its mediocre abilities, but it doesnt translate well into the game, mostly due to the fact that divine magic is supportive in its nature, every other mage combo is magnitudes more powerful.

    Mage/thief - misleaded bastab, spike traps, uai
    mage/fighter - do i even need to explain this one
    fighter/mage/thief - all of the above
    fighter/mage/cleric - this is where the divine magic is properly applied
    sorcerers, mages - liberal use of improved alacrity
    mage/cleric .. uhm.. putting holy smites instead of skull traps into contingencies?.. awesome....

    For example at lvl18 a sorcerer can start casting IA and win every encounter by himself. meanwhile that cleric/mage has 1(one) lvl7 spell. Im not seeing anything comparable a cleric/mage could do.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    Roller12 said:

    Wowo said:

    @Roller12 cleric/mage is definitely one of the most powerful builds in the game.

    Im curious where does this "definitely" come from? This class has lots of magic tools so there is no need to list me its mediocre abilities, but it doesnt translate well into the game, mostly due to the fact that divine magic is supportive in its nature, every other mage combo is magnitudes more powerful.

    Mage/thief - misleaded bastab, spike traps, uai
    mage/fighter - do i even need to explain this one
    fighter/mage/thief - all of the above
    fighter/mage/cleric - this is where the divine magic is properly applied
    sorcerers, mages - liberal use of improved alacrity
    mage/cleric .. uhm.. putting holy smites instead of skull traps into contingencies?.. awesome....

    For example at lvl18 a sorcerer can start casting IA and win every encounter by himself. meanwhile that cleric/mage has 1(one) lvl7 spell. Im not seeing anything comparable a cleric/mage could do.
    It's not so much a build you run solo, It really shines when you bring it in a party. But both the cleric and mage are powerful spell casters, so 2x powerful spellcaster = Super awesome powerful spell caster?
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    Problem is magic scales with levels, spells last longer, hit for more ect. it makes sense to multiclass casters in bg1 due to exponential levelling curse(an uncapped bg1 cleric/mage easily beats Edwin in everything) but in bg2 level progression is linear so a cleric/mage ends up way behind especially in a full party. Meanwhile a maxxed Edwin can cast 72x12pi=864 spells per encounter and those hit for full strength.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    Even though you meant that Edwin is more powerful because he has more spell slots, I gotta say that a vanilla mage could beat Edwin since most mages are smarter and wiser than him .
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    Roller12 said:

    Wowo said:

    @Roller12 cleric/mage is definitely one of the most powerful builds in the game.

    Im curious where does this "definitely" come from? This class has lots of magic tools so there is no need to list me its mediocre abilities, but it doesnt translate well into the game, mostly due to the fact that divine magic is supportive in its nature, every other mage combo is magnitudes more powerful.

    Mage/thief - misleaded bastab, spike traps, uai
    mage/fighter - do i even need to explain this one
    fighter/mage/thief - all of the above
    fighter/mage/cleric - this is where the divine magic is properly applied
    sorcerers, mages - liberal use of improved alacrity
    mage/cleric .. uhm.. putting holy smites instead of skull traps into contingencies?.. awesome....

    For example at lvl18 a sorcerer can start casting IA and win every encounter by himself. meanwhile that cleric/mage has 1(one) lvl7 spell. Im not seeing anything comparable a cleric/mage could do.
    That is because you lack imagination.
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    What is this, that guy is going after every post i make and comment with nonsensical one-liner. It seems i have a fan. :smile:
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,977
    Roller12 said:

    What is this, that guy is going after every post i make and comment with nonsensical one-liner. It seems i have a fan. :smile:

    Because you'd posts deserve one liners.
  • NeverusedNeverused Member Posts: 803
    A pure mage or sorcerer will outstrip a Cleric/mage offensively, almost no doubt about that. But defensively is where C/Ms shine. It's not quite so obvious in vanilla, but in no-reload SCS, the ability to have contingencies (or triggers for party play) to remove paralysis or wear the Reflex Shield to avoid disables is kind of big. Cleric/Mages also get to put several long-casting-time spells into triggers, so something like Doom + Greater Malison + disabler of your choice can end a fight with almost a 100% chance. There's a reason that people can use Aerie as a ridiculous powerhouse late game!
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,977
    Dual class cleric/Sorcerer and make both Edwin and Aerie wish they weren't even born!
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