What do Clerics actually DO? Advice on spells
booinyoureyes
Member Posts: 6,164
I need healing. So I bring a cleric around when I play. But in combat, they are usually just a buffer before and then a bad fighter later. They are basically in my party just to heal, cast restoration and occasionally cast chaotic commands once in a blue moon.
I end up getting Anomen so he can hit things or Aerie so she can use mage spells when they are not healing, essentially ignoring most of what it means to be a cleric. It seems wasteful, especially when I want to take Viconia for my next playthrough.
In other words... I suck at using clerics.
What spells (like debuffs or damage dealers) should I be using IN combat? I don't mean buffs or stuff like Defensive Harmony, but things that can be used in the heat of the battle that might turn the tide of combat?
Any advice on using priests would be welcome.
I end up getting Anomen so he can hit things or Aerie so she can use mage spells when they are not healing, essentially ignoring most of what it means to be a cleric. It seems wasteful, especially when I want to take Viconia for my next playthrough.
In other words... I suck at using clerics.
What spells (like debuffs or damage dealers) should I be using IN combat? I don't mean buffs or stuff like Defensive Harmony, but things that can be used in the heat of the battle that might turn the tide of combat?
Any advice on using priests would be welcome.
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Comments
Bow chika wow wow!
But outside of that, they're job for me is to support by buffing and removing negative ailments. I have fighters/Thieves/archers to one to actually do the killing.
I have mages mostly for doing the disrupting, not every class has to be about doing damage in combat or killing things.
Edit...
I just realized I didn't really answer your question, sorry. The more I think on it... I don't think I've ever used a offensive spell with a cleric at all. I thing I may have attempted to use sunray to kill a demilich... Once, but that didn't end well for me. @semiticgod or @SionIV would more then likely be bigger help than I can, sorry.
but i usually play with many resilient frontliners and try to get the damage distributed among them so they're very rarely near death and there's no need for healing spells (lay on hands is great however)
other ok during-combat spells:
command - quick cast, ok on weak enemies and even worth a try on casters
doom - long cast, but has a powerful and invaluable effect on tougher enemies even late-game
remove fear - quick cast and works wonders if your party is vulnerable to fear; i sometimes fill all available slots with this spell
flame blade - kill trolls with it
hold person - useful in many battles, powerful spell
slow poison - quick cast, saves lives
dispel - i usually dispel with my cleric
holy smite - excellent
zone of sweet air - i usually have one memorized and use it sometimes to remove effects i make; situational but very convenient to have
free action - situationally useful if you cast web but didn't anticipate it before battle (happens a lot for me because i try not to use it but sometimes still do)
etc... i can go on
clerics with self-buffs such as holy power are very powerful in melee mid-game, before fighters totally eclipse them with apr (especially when you start using improved haste).
overall, pure clerics are good to have but i can imagine playing without one past a certain level (around the start of tob - feel free to replace viconia with sarevok for example), especially when the paladin gets a few more spells
Turn undead also makes several fights very easy. Anomen can reliably explode shades and vampires.
I've summoned morr skele, planetar, and mls during fights then I've done before.
Then again I have to mention these are during fights where my first wave of summons weren't enough, damn death spells -.-
And super strong bosses -.-
Command - It doesn't have the long duration or AoE effect of sleep, but it's a fast cast and it knocks enemies down for a few seconds. It might look weak at first glance, but it's actually very powerful. There are two uses for this spell, 1.) It's fast enough cast time so that you can throw it on someone that is casting their own spells, knocking them down and interrupting their spell. 2.) When the enemy is under the effect of Command, you'll hit on every attack, for the duration of the spell (1 round) so if you got 3 APR (attacks per round) you'll be able to hit him 3 times before he stands up.
Hold - This will be your most used spell. It's incredible powerful and it has an AoE effect. You'll want to use your tank to group up the enemies in a pile, then throw one or two hold spells on them, if you're lucky you'll be able to catch 3 people under hold. This spell lasts such a long time so that if you land it on someone, they will not get out of it before they are dead. You're able to shut down entire teams with this spell.
Silence 50' radius - This spell lets you throw out an AoE silence that can shut down an entire team of enemy mages, just be careful if you have anyone close to the AoE yourself, it hits both allies and enemies.
Sanctuary - This is an awesome spell to get away from combat, if you're low on HP or in a tight spot, throw this spell and you'll be under invisibility and the enemy won't attack you unless they can see through invisibility, which very few can.
Remove Fear - Always keep one of these around, it's an AoE effect that can remove panic from your party.
Chant - This is an awesome spell to use in combat, it has a low duration but you're also debuffing all the enemies around you.
Dispel Magic - Pick it on your cleric instead of mage. Remember Dispel Magic can also remove things like confuse, charm, dominate and other nasty stuff on you, it's not just there to remove the enemy buffs.
Holy Smite - I LOVE THIS SPELL. It's a fast casting AoE damage spell that affect evil creatures only. It can easily obliterate an entire enemy team (if they are evil, which most are). Having dropped 2-3 of these at once have killed all the durgers in Irenicus dungeon, and most bounty hunter teams in BG:EE. Oh did i mention if they fail their saving throw, they get blinded? That is AoE blind on everyone. Can't say enough good about this spell. The damage of this spell increases as you level, so you'll end up dealing a ton of damage later on.
Glyph Ward - Cheap mans skull trap. It's an AoE spell that also happens to be a trap spell, so you can place them on the battlefield and have the enemy walk into them for explosions. The good part with this spells is that it's lightning damage so if you cast resist lightning on your team you'll be immune to it.
Zone of Sweet Air - Always keep one of these on you for when in combat. If the enemy uses a cloud spell (Stinking cloud, cloudkill, deathcloud) you'll be able to remove it almost instantly, fast cast time and removes any cloud around you.
Flamestrike - AWESOME high damage single target spell. You'll be able to snipe away the enemy with this spell. If they save vs the spell they only take half of the damage, if they don't you'll end up dealing 60+ damage to a target, which is really nice.
So what you want to do as a cleric is to control the enemy team with your hold, command (greater command) and silence spells. You also have a few awesome damage spells that you can use along with utility spells like Zone of Sweet Air. When your summons start dying you should start casting new ones, even when you're in combat.
Clerics are insanely powerful in BG:EE and while their control spells fall of a bit in BG2:EE they bring a lot of other things to the table as well.
First, clerics gain access to three critically important buff spells: Remove Fear, Death Ward, and Chaotic Commands. Put together, these spells will grant immunity to the disablers and instant death effects that make BG2 so incredibly dangerous. In BG2, saving throws are extremely important, and these spells make your saves for you. Note that Wondrous Recall can restore castings of both Death Ward and Chaotic Commands, allowing you to cover more characters with the spells.
Second, clerics gain a variety of buffing spells that make them nearly as effective as fighters. Holy Power sets your THAC0 to that of a fighter, Draw Upon Holy Might grants large Strength bonuses to damage, Righteous Magic grants maximum damage and more Strength bonuses, and Armor of Faith increases your physical damage resistance, making your cleric last much longer in combat.
Third, clerics are strong summoners at higher levels. At level 15, Animate Dead summons a Skeleton Warrior, a sturdy fighter with 90% magical resistance. They do moderate damage, and move slowly, but they're very hard to kill. Mages especially have difficulty bringing them down. Also, Aerial Servant conjures a very dangerous melee brute. Aerial Servants only have one attack per round, and no special immunities or resistance, but they hit very hard, often for 30 damage per hit or more. They might not break through Stoneskin very easily, but they are very effective against most enemies. At epic levels, they also gain access to Summon (Fallen) Deva, though they won't have many spell slots for it.
Fourth, clerics can do respectable spell damage using Holy Smite. The spell only does 1d4 damage per level, offers a save, and won't bypass Minor Globe of Invulnerability or lich/demi-lich/rakshasa immunities, but the spell is party-friendly and clerics have LOTS of 3rd-level spell slots, allowing them to cast the spell repeatedly. That damage adds up.
There are some other scattered abilities that clerics have. They can turn undead, disabling or destroying large groups of undead goons. Evil clerics might even be able to take control of enemy undead, instead of destroying them. They can remove hold effects with Remove Paralysis, raise the dead, cure level drain, dispel cloud spells, spy on enemy groups with Farsight, disable enemies with Greater Command or Holy Word, badly damage enemies with Harm (assuming you can land a hit and the enemy doesn't have magic resistance), dispel illusions with True Seeing, and tack on extra damage using Blade Barrier or Fire Storm.
Healing spells are not the strength of clerics, unfortunately. The casting times are too slow, clerics are too subject to disruption, and the amount of healing is fairly minor. The spells you'll find fun and useful aren't healing spells:
-Remove Fear
-Armor of Faith
+Draw Upon Holy Might
+Holy Smite
-Animate Dead
-Death Ward
+Holy Power
-Chaotic Commands
+Greater Command
-True Seeing
-Aerial Servant
+Blade Barrier
+Fire Storm
If you can, give your cleric a point in Two-Weapon Fighting and have them dual-wield while Holy Power is active. Their THAC0 will take a hit, but overall they'll see a boost in their damage output, and will be able to match at least some of a fighter's offensive power.
Holy Smite
Hold
That spell is powerful and it is the only spell I cast in battle so far haha. I did not know it blinded them too... now I have to use it more often!
However, since I am finally, for the first time ever, using an evil party, I now have to be more careful
I will start using Flamestrike, it looks promising. I just don't like the casting time when using it in most encounters.
Hold seems like my best bet. I will be using that a ton, thanks guys!
I'm right now playing another 4 man cleric team in BG:EE no reload with SCS installed and I'll be taking them to BG2:EE when i finish here. Anyone who say clerics aren't powerful, are not playing them correctly.
Fighting a group of bounty hunters works like this - summon up 4-5 skeletons, prebuff (Bless, DuHM, etc), cast sanctuary on each of my 4 clerics and walk them into the middle of the enemy group. If they are evil aligned I'll throw holy smite in the middle with all my clerics and they will either die or end up on nearly dead and blinded. If they aren't evil i'll throw 4 hold spells and send in the skeletons after.
One of the awesome things with sanctuary is that while you're invisible, it doesn't break from buffing yourself. So you can sit in the middle of a group of enemies and cast Boon of Lathander/DuHM/Seeking Sword/True sight and they won't be any wiser.
If you're feeling like being a bit naughty you can throw Silence 50' radius close to the group before they go hostile, the silence will strike anyone that doesn't save, even neutral people. So the red wizards of thay ended up mewling like small kittens when they all were silenced before the fight begun.
I've done several class runs through Baldur's Gate (Mage, Paladins, Druids) and clerics were by far the safest, most fun and one of the most powerful.
I - LOVE - CLERICS.
-In early game: Command can bring down an ogre at 1st level, Remove Fear is a do-not-leave-uncast against BG1 mages, both Silence and Hold Person can trivialize many battles. I really *hate* playing BG1 without early access to these spells. I think these three alone are worth the price of admission for a single class cleric (multi will get the good spells too late).
-Cure Light Wounds is a great extender of time between rests for your party. I use it liberally to top off hit points between every battle. It bugs me to enter a rest cycle every ten minutes of game time. Sure, the game allows it, but it spoils my immersion with how ridiculous it is.
-In BG2, one wouldn't-want-to-be-without spell I haven't seen mentioned is Protection from Evil 10'. You give your entire party effectively +2 stackable AC, and +2 to saves. Why would you want to play BG2 without that spell cast at all times?
-Already mentioned: Chaotic Commands and Death Ward. A single class cleric can cover 1-3 party members through most of BG2 from all of the worst reload-causing status effects or instadeaths, while a multi-class will be lucky to be able to cover him or herself alone.
-One I haven't seen mentioned: Aerial Servants. They are one of the most powerful summons in the game. A single-class cleric will get extra castings of them over a multi-class, as well as getting access to the first casting much sooner in the game than a multi-class.
-Pure convenience: The ability to cast Raise Dead while far, far away from any temples. The upgraded version, Resurrect, acts as a Heal spell as well as Raising Dead with full hit points. Yes, please.
-Harm is a great offensive spell, one of the strongest in the game, if you can land it. No save, only a to hit roll.
-The Heal spell not only restores all hit points, it also cures any and all status effects, including level drain. I often have my cleric start casting it during combat on any melee combatant who is down to half hit points. It usually fires off and heals them to full before they get down to a quarter hit points.
-Turn undead with a single class cleric who has played most of the game with a smaller-than-six party can often get to such a high level, all vampires including Bhodi explode into chunks just by the cleric's clicking a button and having the angels sing "ahhhhh". Just be careful not to do that around your vamped lover.
In summary: I can't help but think that most people who don't like clerics in party play are also the kind of people who like wild mages, that is, they liberally use Power Word: Reload, and they don't care how many times they use it. Anybody that likes to do minimal or no-reload with a party is going to want a cleric, or two.
The exception would be solo play: I'd definitely agree that the cleric is not the most powerful class for a solo run. Like the bard, her role in the party is ensuring the survival of the combatants.
Agree with others on the skeleton summons spell being amazing. They are pretty close to magic immune so they are great for bleeding mages of spells, ignoring confusion, etc.
At higher levels, Viconia can command an army of undead with her turn ability. The Watcher's Keep level with the purple orbs that summon undead are a great place to turn her invisible and have her sit there turning undead and then commanding that undead army to attack the creatures that appear when you turn the keys to get the end fights.
The protection from evil 10' radius spell is a great fairly long-term buff for the party, regardless of the cleric's actual alignment.
Note that neutralize poison also removes blindness (and disease) which makes it viable and more than the 2nd level slow poison spell (which does the neutralizing you would expect).
You dont suck at using clerics, its the NPC clerics that are deformed. Viconia being the closest to a normal one, but she lacks str to actually wear gear until you have a spare str item to give her.
Does anyone use the Hold Monster spell? Is it useful?
It's an excellent spell, certainly. It's just that Feeblemind is usually more useful.
Cast Call Woodland Beings instead, that summon can cast Hold Monster, along with Hold Person, Mental Domination and Confusion, which is a pretty good package in my opinion.
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Armour of Faith: absorbs damage at 5% per 5 levels of caster
Doom: -2 penalty to characters rolls (saving, to hit) with NO SAVE
Command: Drop a target to the ground (poor man's sleep)
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Barkskin: +1 to saves and increases AC
Chant: A buff and debuff at the same time
Draw Upon Holy Might: Plus to STR, DEX and CON. Good if you don't min/max your stats
Hold Person: Go to spell. Disable's most melee attackers in the game
Silence: A good cheesy spell in the right circumstances
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Holy Smite: AoE damage that doesn't hurt good aligned companions
Miscast Magic: 80% casting failure.
Dispel Magic: Good in certain situations
4.
Poison: Mage killer with high damage per round
Holy Power: Turns you into a fighter
Mental Domination: Basically the mage spell Domination
Kits:
Helm: Cast True Sight at level 1
Lathander: Hold undead & Boon of Lathander: +1 to hit and dmg, +1 to saves, one extra attack(!!), and immune to level drain.
Add in the priests turn undead ability which can turn some of the tougher undead swarms into a chunking cake walk.