@Knoland, I hear what you are saying, but you missed my point. A developer tweeting is not official information. The company should either post regularly on their site the status or at a minimum, send out emails to those interested. Using Twitter is using the "I know a guy that works there" network. I have no reason to doubt his sincerity, but it can hardly me considered official.
@wolfpac53 fair enough. I don't personally agree with this however as several twitter accounts are posted on this forum for any viewer to read? The only thing then would be that there is no "official" company e-mail or post describing the problems and informing Mac/android users about delays and the issues involed.
However that said I don't think that posting this information serves them any justice and would also require someone dedicated to this task? This is a small company and they feel that letting us know via tweets knowing full well that this community is intelligent and understanding enough to spread the word and link tweeted information as it becomes available. They are busy doing what they can trust me. You found this forum thread without any issues and so will others.
@Knoland, I hear what you are saying, but you missed my point. A developer tweeting is not official information. The company should either post regularly on their site the status or at a minimum, send out emails to those interested. Using Twitter is using the "I know a guy that works there" network. I have no reason to doubt his sincerity, but it can hardly me considered official.
How are twitter feeds listed on the official web site not considered official? This isn't @someguywhoknowsaguy. It's @theguydoingthework. There are reasons to ding twitter as a news source (lost in the crowd, annoying to follow another place for information, etc.), but calling it unofficial when it's apparently been the main source of information for some time seems presumptuous.
I do agree with wolfpac53. I would not rely on a single mechanism to distribute information. A good sales strategy would use multiple delivery channels to gather and keep customers focused on the product - BG EE.
However there is a counter argument that should be cosidered. I know what it is like to run a small company. It is difficult to manage and maintain multiple information streams with up to date content. This would be amplified by supporting four OS platforms with various subject areas pertinent to each platform. Overhaul also needs to keep within the budget. After all if the company doesn't make money - well - shows over. And none of us want that.
Perhaps it comes done more "code" and less "marketing"... At least for a time.
@Knoland, I hear what you are saying, but you missed my point. A developer tweeting is not official information. The company should either post regularly on their site the status or at a minimum, send out emails to those interested. Using Twitter is using the "I know a guy that works there" network. I have no reason to doubt his sincerity, but it can hardly me considered official.
Incorrect. Twitter is a legitimate and indispensable format for delivering information for thousands of large companies out there. Many utilities and government agencies, for example, have taken steps such that any emergency information re: outages, shut downs, storm shelter availability, and etc. is immediately distributed via Twitter, with longer press releases posted later. Furthermore, the S.E.C.'s own by-laws consider a publicly identified employee's tweets to be official information, a fact which has resulted in the failure of a few rather prominent cases in the greater N.Y. region and has resulted in draconian social media use policies for many employees at hedge funds and Fortune 500's.
To put it bluntly, you are dissatisfied that the product has not been released. Fine. Whatever. You'll grow older. You'll learn how to wait. In the case of your specific complaint, however, you are incorrect. Good faith communication has been made throughout the development and distribution process.
I think its great that the devs are showing such massive transparency and using social media to communicate updates to the customers/fans of BGEE. They could just be saying nothing at all and letting us all sit and wonder WTF is going on.
Do I wish it was released by now? Of course. Do the Devs wish it was released by now? Undoubtedly.
But bitching and whining that its not is just showing the same attitude of entitlement I see on author boards when the writer isn't releasing a book fast enough for some people. They dont owe you anything - other than (arguably) to eventually deliver on the advertised product.
I'm sure these same whiners would be the first to flame the devs if the game was released with some show stopping bugs that the Apple Review process caught.
I don't think that "massive transparency" would be my own choice of words - here we are a full month past the date the game was promised and I at least have no idea if they have even re-submitted to Apple. Should we expect the game this week? next week? next month? I don't have the faintest notion. I feel like Mac users are third-class citizens for the developers, and we deserve an apology and an explanation here on the website, not on Trent Oster's twitter feed. Also, "whiners"? Missing release by Christmas is a pretty big deal, IMO. Expecting someone to deliver on a promise is not the same as having an unrealistic sense of "entitlement".
The Mac version will come. I'm thoroughly addicted to the iPad version, and have purchased the original BG1 and BG2 from GOG to play in BGT. I also managed to get my friend's Windows copy of BG:EE running inside a Wineskin wrapper flawlessly on his Mac. I personally won't be purchasing the Windows version to do the same, but I should hope there's more to life than waiting (and complaining) for a game's release. Sense aside, I'll likely spend another $20 on the Mac version just to support Overhaul Games. Oster mentioned on Twitter that he hoped sales could be better, and I definitely want to see BG2:EE on my iPad. These bugs will be hammered out. Next time, they might do well to have a few beta testers on BG2:EE (many in this community would likely do it for free), but with such a small team, it's not a big surprise that such a hulking carcass of an old game has its fair share of teething issues upon release. As @CraigMooGa says, don't download this illegally. If you think you're making a statement, you're not. No one will care, and you're just hurting yourself and the rest of us who wish to see the company have the resources to continue addressing bugs and working on new products.
I feel that we've been left behind. I don't even feel that I'd be willing to hand over money to a company who have treated us like this. Even the PC version was FULL of bugs, and the iPad version is a half-assed port. Piratebay, here we go!
If memory serves, they submitted at least 3 builds to Apple for release: * The was one that should have gone out on Nov 28 * A second one that was submitted that accidentally replaced the first. They wanted the first to be released, and the second to come as an update. Instead it restarted the approval process. They pulled this version voluntarily because of a show stopping bug. * A third version which was rejected by Apple.
There wasn't time to submit a build and get it approved by Apple before Apple shut down on the 21st.
Pirating doesn't punish the writer/publisher: they factor pirates into the cost-benefit of making the game in the first place. It punishes the gamer, because once that equation tips too far toward piracy, they'll give up on us a go make a Farmville clone or tax program.
If you don't pay for a commercial product and use it and it was not bought by someone and given to you as a gift, it's stolen merchandise. It doesn't matter if it's physical or data only or what you want to call it.
Take this argument to court and see how long it holds...
I would really like to see if you'd hold this opinion if you ever create a digital commercial product... just to see someone "smart" copying and using it for free, after all he didn't steal it from you you still have your 1 and 0...
When you use someone's service or product without paying you're stealing. I don't think you can see the distinction here as well and that was my point in my post. The developers used their money to create a product you now intend to use for free and you come to their forums, maintained by their money as well and announce publicly you have the intention to steal from them? Really?
I'm flabbergasted at the turn this conversation has recently taken. Piracy is not the solution to this long wait period, even if there is no definite release date set in stone. There's a reason they're being so close-lipped as of late--they don't want our hopes to be dashed if they don't meet another deadline for one reason or another. They've done an astronomical amount of work improving the PC and Ipad releases since the beginning, and all of the improvements they've done so far for those versions will be in the Mac version of the game when it is finally released. We are not forgotten by Overhaul, and to say otherwise is foolish. Baldur's Gate will come when it comes, and it will be a solid product on launch date. What more could you ask for?
The one and only thing this version of BG was offering was "convenience". Not needing to play the original PC version (which can be had for like $5 at gog.com, BTW) under Parallels and instead running it natively on Mac or on an iPad was THE draw. So piracy of the new version isn't the answer. Just play the old one if you are in such a rush.
That being said, sounds like the Mac version will still be pretty buggy when it gets released, and there is no iPad 1 support, so playing the cheaper, available-now original sounds better all the time. I last checked in here a month ago. Since then they have moved the forum links to the bottom of the web page (hiding them?) and nothing has changed, including ZERO posts here about it all from any of the devs. Thinking realistically, I would expect the Mac version to take a month or two, not mid January, and I expect the iPad 1 will never be supported.
And as a final note... yeah, twitter is "legitimate". But I'm not going to tune in every day to see what's going on. If these chucklenuts want to sell a product they need to find me where I am at and let me know when things are available. A great product that I don't know about has ZERO sales opportunities. So one of the devs needs to act like they live in the modern world and make a damn forum post once in a while!
"We're planning a more synchronized Mac launch / iPad and PC update to synchronize versions so multiplayer works properly."
I appreciate the intention, but given that they have no control over the launch time of 2 out of the 3 products, this can only be achieved by slowing releases enough to get them all to the same version. There will always be breaks until they, A- actually get a product on all platforms, and B- get all products stable enough to not need to update more than every three months or so. I would expect cross-platform multiplayer to be really spotty for quite a while. It's not about the developer's capabilities, but the reality of the publishing scenario almost guarantees several breaks along the line, as every "solid" update could put all three platforms out of synch for up to three weeks.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this or not... but ANY application that goes on a new Mac (mine is running Mountain Lion) has to be approved by the App store before it will install (like my HP printer updates have to come through the App store). SO EVEN IF THEY WROTE A MAC LAUNCHER, it would still need to go through the review process.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this or not... but ANY application that goes on a new Mac (mine is running Mountain Lion) has to be approved by the App store before it will install (like my HP printer updates have to come through the App store). SO EVEN IF THEY WROTE A MAC LAUNCHER, it would still need to go through the review process.
So leave Beamdog alone!
I do agree with this last bit -- the "leave Beamdog alone!" part -- but I don't think what you say about App Store approval is necessarily true. I can, for example, go to VLC and download the latest version without having to worry about whether or not the App Store has approved it or not. Likewise with things like Firefox or Google Chrome, or a shareware game that a friend of a friend from New Zealand is writing and distributing in his spare time.
As I see it, the relevant issue is one of time. I figure we are looking at weighing three possible options when we talk about either circumventing the App Store or not:
1) We all find our patience and wait for release as Beamdog originally planned, through the App Store. By all reliable accounts this is the quickest way that we'll see BGEE come to OSX.
2) Beamdog, after being beaten into submission by angry forum trolls (6+4 HD/CE), relents and decides to design and build a Mac launcher. We might see it by June '13 in this case. Maybe.
3) Beamdog, as above, begins work on a Mac Launcher for BGEE. Six years later, Beamdog (which in the interim was acquired by MicroSoft games studio) releases the BGEE OSX launcher as the "killer app" for its latest XBox console. Four years after that BGEE appears on OSX in a special "Combat Evolved" edition, but no further installments of Beamdog's "EE" game ports ever make it to the Mac side.
So you see, of the three ways that this could play out, Option #1 takes the least time and ends up with a much better result. How about we just take a chill pill and see if the App Store is kinder to us the next time we apply?
"but ANY application that goes on a new Mac (mine is running Mountain Lion) has to be approved by the App store before it will install (like my HP printer updates have to come through the App store). SO EVEN IF THEY WROTE A MAC LAUNCHER, it would still need to go through the review process. "
Not entirely true. If you turn off gatekeeper in OS 10.8 anything will install just like it did in every other OS version before it. You only need to go through the Apple store if you want to use that distribution method and work with the default security settings of 10.8. Many people disable gatekeeper because the Apple store/installer doesn't fully support component level add ins for other apps and content additions yet.
FWIW, there is a sale at gog.com for the next 22 hours... for $21 you get a bundle of the original PC versions (legal and DRM free!) of Baldur's Gate, Baldurs Gate 2 complete, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale Complete, Icewind Dale 2 Complete, Dragonshard, Temple of Elemental Evil, Neverwinter Nights Diamond Edition and Demon Stone. Given how well these run in Parallels, etc, it's a great way to play some of these you might have missed while you wait for the new mac version of BG.
@Xtopher I've spent way too much on GOG recently. Bought each of these games separately or had them gifted. Gave Dragonshard and Demon Stone a miss, though, as reviews weren't great. The GOG versions of BG 1&2 work great with mods, etc. I have so many copies of BG it seems, yet I still want the Mac version of BG:EE, if only to copy my iPad save over to avoid the headache that is Durlag's Tower on the iPad.
Comments
However that said I don't think that posting this information serves them any justice and would also require someone dedicated to this task? This is a small company and they feel that letting us know via tweets knowing full well that this community is intelligent and understanding enough to spread the word and link tweeted information as it becomes available. They are busy doing what they can trust me. You found this forum thread without any issues and so will others.
However there is a counter argument that should be cosidered. I know what it is like to run a small company. It is difficult to manage and maintain multiple information streams with up to date content. This would be amplified by supporting four OS platforms with various subject areas pertinent to each platform. Overhaul also needs to keep within the budget. After all if the company doesn't make money - well - shows over. And none of us want that.
Perhaps it comes done more "code" and less "marketing"... At least for a time.
To put it bluntly, you are dissatisfied that the product has not been released. Fine. Whatever. You'll grow older. You'll learn how to wait. In the case of your specific complaint, however, you are incorrect. Good faith communication has been made throughout the development and distribution process.
Do I wish it was released by now? Of course. Do the Devs wish it was released by now? Undoubtedly.
But bitching and whining that its not is just showing the same attitude of entitlement I see on author boards when the writer isn't releasing a book fast enough for some people. They dont owe you anything - other than (arguably) to eventually deliver on the advertised product.
I'm sure these same whiners would be the first to flame the devs if the game was released with some show stopping bugs that the Apple Review process caught.
OS X will sell far less copies than iPad, so it's more than understandable that version took priority to get out the door by Christmas.
* The was one that should have gone out on Nov 28
* A second one that was submitted that accidentally replaced the first. They wanted the first to be released, and the second to come as an update. Instead it restarted the approval process. They pulled this version voluntarily because of a show stopping bug.
* A third version which was rejected by Apple.
There wasn't time to submit a build and get it approved by Apple before Apple shut down on the 21st.
Pirating doesn't punish the writer/publisher: they factor pirates into the cost-benefit of making the game in the first place. It punishes the gamer, because once that equation tips too far toward piracy, they'll give up on us a go make a Farmville clone or tax program.
I would really like to see if you'd hold this opinion if you ever create a digital commercial product... just to see someone "smart" copying and using it for free, after all he didn't steal it from you you still have your 1 and 0...
Ok. I'm out I won't lose my time arguing.
They've done an astronomical amount of work improving the PC and Ipad releases since the beginning, and all of the improvements they've done so far for those versions will be in the Mac version of the game when it is finally released.
We are not forgotten by Overhaul, and to say otherwise is foolish. Baldur's Gate will come when it comes, and it will be a solid product on launch date. What more could you ask for?
That being said, sounds like the Mac version will still be pretty buggy when it gets released, and there is no iPad 1 support, so playing the cheaper, available-now original sounds better all the time. I last checked in here a month ago. Since then they have moved the forum links to the bottom of the web page (hiding them?) and nothing has changed, including ZERO posts here about it all from any of the devs. Thinking realistically, I would expect the Mac version to take a month or two, not mid January, and I expect the iPad 1 will never be supported.
And as a final note... yeah, twitter is "legitimate". But I'm not going to tune in every day to see what's going on. If these chucklenuts want to sell a product they need to find me where I am at and let me know when things are available. A great product that I don't know about has ZERO sales opportunities. So one of the devs needs to act like they live in the modern world and make a damn forum post once in a while!
"We're planning a more synchronized Mac launch / iPad and PC update to synchronize versions so multiplayer works properly."
I appreciate the intention, but given that they have no control over the launch time of 2 out of the 3 products, this can only be achieved by slowing releases enough to get them all to the same version. There will always be breaks until they, A- actually get a product on all platforms, and B- get all products stable enough to not need to update more than every three months or so. I would expect cross-platform multiplayer to be really spotty for quite a while. It's not about the developer's capabilities, but the reality of the publishing scenario almost guarantees several breaks along the line, as every "solid" update could put all three platforms out of synch for up to three weeks.
So leave Beamdog alone!
As I see it, the relevant issue is one of time. I figure we are looking at weighing three possible options when we talk about either circumventing the App Store or not:
1) We all find our patience and wait for release as Beamdog originally planned, through the App Store. By all reliable accounts this is the quickest way that we'll see BGEE come to OSX.
2) Beamdog, after being beaten into submission by angry forum trolls (6+4 HD/CE), relents and decides to design and build a Mac launcher. We might see it by June '13 in this case. Maybe.
3) Beamdog, as above, begins work on a Mac Launcher for BGEE. Six years later, Beamdog (which in the interim was acquired by MicroSoft games studio) releases the BGEE OSX launcher as the "killer app" for its latest XBox console. Four years after that BGEE appears on OSX in a special "Combat Evolved" edition, but no further installments of Beamdog's "EE" game ports ever make it to the Mac side.
So you see, of the three ways that this could play out, Option #1 takes the least time and ends up with a much better result. How about we just take a chill pill and see if the App Store is kinder to us the next time we apply?
Not entirely true. If you turn off gatekeeper in OS 10.8 anything will install just like it did in every other OS version before it. You only need to go through the Apple store if you want to use that distribution method and work with the default security settings of 10.8. Many people disable gatekeeper because the Apple store/installer doesn't fully support component level add ins for other apps and content additions yet.
http://www.gog.com/promo/dungeons___dragons_deal