Hello! A thought about the Shatter spell: I do not think it is so OP, it deals quite a lot of damages -over 3 rounds- and -if 3 failed spell saves- with a very long casting time.
Spell saves are really easy to boost even at low levels and spoiling so long a cast happen a lot at low level (when the spell sounds OP).
At high level it is less impressive and the double damages concern targets that are immune against a lot of spells (golems with MR) so it can make sense to let an option specifically against them in the sphere of destruction.
(Usually I do not express myself here but I follow all your class and rules mods so GG for the great work^^)
Pillars of Eternity has some neat druid spells, in case you're looking for ideas for the Animal/Plant/Earth/Air/Water spheres.
Here are my favourite ones:
Earth:
Twin Stones - two large boulders roll away from the caster in slightly different directions, doing Crush damage to anyone in their path, and then after a certain distance explode and do Pierce damage to anyone nearby.
Calling the World's Maw - a large spiky rock (it looks like a little mountain) instantly grows out of the ground, doing Slash damage and potentially stunning enemies in the area of effect.
Plant:
Wall of Thorns - like Icewind Dale's Wall of Moonlight, but made of thorns and much longer, and doing Pierce damage to anyone who passes through.
Garden of Life - plants grow from the bodies of killed enemies in the area of effect, which in turn cause a healing/regeneration effect on all nearby allies. Does nothing if there are no dead bodies in the area of effect.
Animal:
Infestation of Maggots - "Enemies in the area of effect have their skin infested by hordes of burrowing maggots, inflicting Raw damage over time. The more wounded the target, the greater the damage". So basically like BG2's Creeping Doom, but only effective against already injured enemies, which makes it more tactically interesting.
Beetle's Shell - "An allied target is encased in a shell that prevents him or her from taking actions (including moving) but will absorb a fixed amount of damage before shattering". This can be cast at a distance, so is very useful for protecting a front-line warrior who is being swarmed by enemies.
Don't worry too much about stealing ideas from Pillars of Eternity; after all, they also took lots of ideas from D&D and the Infinity Engine games. E.g. their "Overwhelming Wave" spell is the same as IWD's "Smashing Wave" spell; their "Firebrand" spell is pretty much the same as IWD's "Flame Blade" spell, etc...
Another thought regarding druid/mage, I do not really agree with you when you say it should be restricted from using necromancy spells.
Sure enough raising undead is not very druidic but decay is natural. Druids are all about natural flows or cycles and can speed or modify them in a direction (regeneration) or the other (decay). And well, every creature is to die in the wild Again I agree regarding raise undead spells but not the general idea of every necromancy spells.
Hello! A thought about the Shatter spell: I do not think it is so OP, it deals quite a lot of damages -over 3 rounds- and -if 3 failed spell saves- with a very long casting time.
Spell saves are really easy to boost even at low levels and spoiling so long a cast happen a lot at low level (when the spell sounds OP).
At high level it is less impressive and the double damages concern targets that are immune against a lot of spells (golems with MR) so it can make sense to let an option specifically against them in the sphere of destruction.
(Usually I do not express myself here but I follow all your class and rules mods so GG for the great work^^)
Aaah, that's right. I extended that casting time for this very reason. Okay, it's settled (for now at least). Let's leave it as it.
Pillars of Eternity has some neat druid spells, in case you're looking for ideas for the Animal/Plant/Earth/Air/Water spheres.
Here are my favorite ones:
Earth:
Twin Stones - two large boulders roll away from the caster in slightly different directions, doing Crush damage to anyone in their path, and then after a certain distance explode and do Pierce damage to anyone nearby.
Calling the World's Maw - a large spiky rock (it looks like a little mountain) instantly grows out of the ground, doing Slash damage and potentially stunning enemies in the area of effect.
Plant:
Wall of Thorns - like Icewind Dale's Wall of Moonlight, but made of thorns and much longer, and doing Pierce damage to anyone who passes through.
Garden of Life - plants grow from the bodies of killed enemies in the area of effect, which in turn cause a healing/regeneration effect on all nearby allies. Does nothing if there are no dead bodies in the area of effect.
These sound cool, but I'm worried about the animations...
Animal:
Infestation of Maggots - "Enemies in the area of effect have their skin infested by hordes of burrowing maggots, inflicting Raw damage over time. The more wounded the target, the greater the damage". So basically like BG2's Creeping Doom, but only effective against already injured enemies, which makes it more tactically interesting.
Beetle's Shell - "An allied target is encased in a shell that prevents him or her from taking actions (including moving) but will absorb a fixed amount of damage before shattering". This can be cast at a distance, so is very useful for protecting a front-line warrior who is being swarmed by enemies.
Don't worry too much about stealing ideas from Pillars of Eternity; after all, they also took lots of ideas from D&D and the Infinity Engine games. E.g. their "Overwhelming Wave" spell is the same as IWD's "Smashing Wave" spell; their "Firebrand" spell is pretty much the same as IWD's "Flame Blade" spell, etc...
I think I can do these, however. (well, I'm not sure about targeting only wounded enemies, but it is still workable.
Heh, I am definitely not worried. I'm sure they will be happy with a link to their game!
Ah... well I havent even installed the beta yet as that would require reinstalling everything as well as finding the thing that adds icewind dale spells...
I suppose, if we created enough extra spells, we can probably drop the IWDification requirement. But then, would an IWDified game have spheres that are too lopsided?
@subtledoctor how reasonable would this be, do you think? I'm happy to make 1,000 spells if required...
It just seems silly. The spells are already there, and they are high quality, and they mostly match the spells in IWDEE.
If anything I wonder if we might contact representatives of IWDification (Camdawg? Mike1072? Not sure who the contact would be now) and see if we couldn't just include the IWDification spells in this mod...
Well Jaheira has two of almost every spell in her spell book for some reason, and a spell that says only evil can cast it, last I checked she was neutral...
bg2, running into a different issue atm doing a reinstall to see if it was a mod conflict and when i go to install the required iwdification it says can't find dialog.tlk this is a clean install with nothing changed yet so kinda freaking out here.
bg2, running into a different issue atm doing a reinstall to see if it was a mod conflict and when i go to install the required iwdification it says can't find dialog.tlk this is a clean install with nothing changed yet so kinda freaking out here.
So, how did this go? I'm fairly sure this isn't a FnP issue, but still
well I moved the dialog.tlk file from the language choice to the place with the chiten key (sp?) and it started but then when I tried to install the spell changes I got a fatal error. Uninstalled and reinstalled the game again, it is currently vanilla. So I'm not sure what to do at this point.
So I'm in the middle of making my mod compatible with this one. I just need input on the spheres I'm sticking into the kits with the ~6 major ~6 minor guidelines.
Baervan: Weapon: Spear Major: Animal, Earth, Life/Healing, Plant, Vigor, Water (6) Minor: Air, Divine Aid, Protection, Light, Thought/Charm (5) Bit short on the minor sphere side. Baervan is a nature deity as opposed to a more abstract-concept type deity so he's kind of got a more druidy aspect to him. I could move Earth and Water to Minor but I'm wondering what I should replace them with (should they even be replaced?)
Baravar: Weapon: Dagger Major: Deception, Knowledge, Protection, Shadow, Thought/Charm (5) Minor: Affliction, Divine Aid, Dread, Life/Healing, Magic (5) Less than average, but has access to the special spheres. Baravar is a guardian deity with a bent towards trickster like defenses - illusions and such. So we're talking self preservation with a bent towards preventative methods. The magic access is something that could be changed, as well as the divine aid sphere. It grants a bit of an overt flavour to a god that I see as acting more subtly.
Clangeddin Weapon: Axe Major: Divine Aid, Earth, Light, Protection, Vigor, War (6) Minor: Destruction, Dread, Knowledge, Life/Healing, (4) A bit low on the minors. Clangeddin is a more active deity; like a dwarfy, more militant Torm. To tell the truth, I'm kind of blanking on him. I could make him make him follow the Might and Guild to make him a more fightery-cleric by adding passives but I'm kind of attached to having the kit be a single class kit.
So I'm in the middle of making my mod compatible with this one. I just need input on the spheres I'm sticking into the kits with the ~6 major ~6 minor guidelines.
Baervan: Weapon: Spear Major: Animal, Earth, Life/Healing, Plant, Vigor, Water (6) Minor: Air, Divine Aid, Protection, Light, Thought/Charm (5) Bit short on the minor sphere side. Baervan is a nature deity as opposed to a more abstract-concept type deity so he's kind of got a more druidy aspect to him. I could move Earth and Water to Minor but I'm wondering what I should replace them with (should they even be replaced?)
Baravar: Weapon: Dagger Major: Deception, Knowledge, Protection, Shadow, Thought/Charm (5) Minor: Affliction, Divine Aid, Dread, Life/Healing, Magic (5) Less than average, but has access to the special spheres. Baravar is a guardian deity with a bent towards trickster like defenses - illusions and such. So we're talking self preservation with a bent towards preventative methods. The magic access is something that could be changed, as well as the divine aid sphere. It grants a bit of an overt flavour to a god that I see as acting more subtly.
Clangeddin Weapon: Axe Major: Divine Aid, Earth, Light, Protection, Vigor, War (6) Minor: Destruction, Dread, Knowledge, Life/Healing, (4) A bit low on the minors. Clangeddin is a more active deity; like a dwarfy, more militant Torm. To tell the truth, I'm kind of blanking on him. I could make him make him follow the Might and Guild to make him a more fightery-cleric by adding passives but I'm kind of attached to having the kit be a single class kit.
These are all fairly low. Clerics usually have access to 6 major and 7 minor, I believe. Oh, and I believe that everybody has major access to healing, and almost everybody has divine aid.
Don't have demi deities in front of me, but, let's see...
Clangeddin could probably add healing as a major, and be good. He would have one more major than normal to make up for the few minors
Baravar should move healing to major and also divine aid to major, and you have about the same situation.
I don't know Baervan well, but what about adding dread and affliction as minors?
These are all fairly low. Clerics usually have access to 6 major and 7 minor, I believe. Oh, and I believe that everybody has major access to healing, and almost everybody has divine aid.
Don't have demi deities in front of me, but, let's see...
Clangeddin could probably add healing as a major, and be good. He would have one more major than normal to make up for the few minors
Baravar should move healing to major and also divine aid to major, and you have about the same situation.
I don't know Baervan well, but what about adding dread and affliction as minors?
- I would add Knowledge as a minor sphere for Baervan.
- For Baravar, I would move Dread up to major and add Air as a minor sphere.
- For my own Clangeddin kit, I had all the same spheres as you (great minds think alike!) except I switched Destruction to major and Light to minor. And for some reason I added Thought as a 5th minor sphere.
6 major, 7 minor is one minor higher than what I assumed. I can work with it, but I'll have to stretch the deity concept a bit further than I thought I would.
Dread and affliction seem a bit too sinister for Baervan. He's a prankster but not a full trickster archetype (although adding them would fit into that in a sense; access to be a nuisance, but not to be a threat). Knowledge could work, especially if you see Baervan as a wilderness explorer and the minor knowledge spells help exploration in their own way. - +Knowledge minor has him at 6,6. +Dread or Affliction minor has him at 6,7.
Baravar having Dread as a major fits, but air is kind of weird. Does Destruction for the big stuff maybe, or even Death as the whole 'success at any cost' work? Bumping up magic is an option, but I think it would go against the mod's design goals and I'm a stickler for consistency. - ^Dread major would result him at 7,4, but with access to both exclusive spheres (which could offset him having minor healing).
Clangeddin getting an extra major sphere could work considering major access usually works out to the same spell number as 2 minor accesses. I may bump up healing or destruction; either could work, although I'm leaning towards destruction. Demihuman Deities has healing as a minor sphere. It also has him as having Sun Major access hence the Light major, which I guess makes sense if you consider trolls as giants? Knowledge minor can also work, as can Thought/Charm minor if you regard them as symbolic of tactical thinking. - ^Healing or Destruction and +Knowledge or Thought minor bumps him to 7,4. Same boat as Baravar but no exclusive sphere access. If +Knowledge AND thought that works out to 7,5 which is okay.
How about a Spike-Growth-on-steroids for either or both of these spheres? I.e. a spell (either stone or plant themed) that makes a stationary area of effect very very painful to be in for enemies for several rounds...
Deception: - double simulacrum?? * (Like in Refinements)
This is my favorite Refinements HLA. Very memorable and very useful.
Though perhaps a little too powerful... Maybe do it without the Mislead effect? Or freeze the caster for the duration of the spell, like Project Image does?
6 major, 7 minor is one minor higher than what I assumed. I can work with it, but I'll have to stretch the deity concept a bit further than I thought I would.
Dread and affliction seem a bit too sinister for Baervan. He's a prankster but not a full trickster archetype (although adding them would fit into that in a sense; access to be a nuisance, but not to be a threat). Knowledge could work, especially if you see Baervan as a wilderness explorer and the minor knowledge spells help exploration in their own way. - +Knowledge minor has him at 6,6. +Dread or Affliction minor has him at 6,7.
Dread minor really says prankster to me. These spells generally reduce luck. Very 'nuisancey'.
Baravar having Dread as a major fits, but air is kind of weird. Does Destruction for the big stuff maybe, or even Death as the whole 'success at any cost' work? Bumping up magic is an option, but I think it would go against the mod's design goals and I'm a stickler for consistency. - ^Dread major would result him at 7,4, but with access to both exclusive spheres (which could offset him having minor healing).
Healing is a universal sphere at this point. The way that the mod is designed, if a character was created in the ToB section, they would have all and only healing spells at all levels, which would wouldn't work with any sub-kit that had only minor access to healing.
Now, I'm going to defer to @subtledoctor on this, but I think that it is possible to make another sphere universal, or to create a whole new sphere entirely (even if it involves creating new spells--god knows, I love creating spells). But, the problem is 'what sphere', or if a new universal sphere, 'what spells should be included?' Cleric characters have typically played the role of the healer, and so it seems to make sense to give them all that sphere. That means that some gods aren't quite canonical, however. Talona, for example, is a bit off.
So, you really want Baravar to have major access to healing (for now...)
Clangeddin getting an extra major sphere could work considering major access usually works out to the same spell number as 2 minor accesses. I may bump up healing or destruction; either could work, although I'm leaning towards destruction. Demihuman Deities has healing as a minor sphere. It also has him as having Sun Major access hence the Light major, which I guess makes sense if you consider trolls as giants? Knowledge minor can also work, as can Thought/Charm minor if you regard them as symbolic of tactical thinking. - ^Healing or Destruction and +Knowledge or Thought minor bumps him to 7,4. Same boat as Baravar but no exclusive sphere access. If +Knowledge AND thought that works out to 7,5 which is okay.
Yeah, but that healing really needs to be major...Or we could move back to Divine Aid (or another sphere). We need to set it in stone at some point, however, as it will become more and more difficult to retroactively revise all kits.
How about a Spike-Growth-on-steroids for either or both of these spheres? I.e. a spell (either stone or plant themed) that makes a stationary area of effect very very painful to be in for enemies for several rounds...
I think Refinements has a Druid HLA like that.
That would be fun: plant could be 'entangle on steroids'. It could have a name like, "Strangling Vines", or something like that
Deception: - double simulacrum?? * (Like in Refinements)
This is my favorite Refinements HLA. Very memorable and very useful.
Though perhaps a little too powerful... Maybe do it without the Mislead effect? Or freeze the caster for the duration of the spell, like Project Image does?
Man, this is a seperate issue, but I would really like to nerf simulacrum...It should drain the original caster's spells. Anyway, I think that it is possible to pause the caster while the spell is in effect.
Hello, a thought about HLA: 2 spells/sphere is too much IMO. You can only cast a number of spells so will quicly use only few of them.
On the other hand some generalist HLA like permanent bless etc... are always useful and meaningful when you choose them and there are a lot of possibilities (emotion:courage or whatever).
Baravar Major: Deception, Dread, Knowledge, Life/Healing, Protection, Shadow, Thought/Charm (7) Minor: Affliction, Destruction, Divine Aid, Magic (4) Baravar turned kind of sinister sphere wise. Fitting his concept in a way I'm happy with. I kind of want to bump up Affliction, and remove destruction so he comes to 8,2. Is that allowed? If it's too out there I'm happy leaving it as is.
Clangeddin Major: Divine Aid, Earth, Life/Healing, Light, Protection, Vigor, War (7) Minor: Destruction, Dread, Fire, Knowledge, Thought/Charm (5) Fire wasn't in his original wheelhouse before, but he does have major light/sun access so...
Comments
I do not think it is so OP, it deals quite a lot of damages -over 3 rounds- and -if 3 failed spell saves- with a very long casting time.
Spell saves are really easy to boost even at low levels and spoiling so long a cast happen a lot at low level (when the spell sounds OP).
At high level it is less impressive and the double damages concern targets that are immune against a lot of spells (golems with MR) so it can make sense to let an option specifically against them in the sphere of destruction.
(Usually I do not express myself here but I follow all your class and rules mods so GG for the great work^^)
Here are my favourite ones:
Earth:
- Twin Stones - two large boulders roll away from the caster in slightly different directions, doing Crush damage to anyone in their path, and then after a certain distance explode and do Pierce damage to anyone nearby.
- Calling the World's Maw - a large spiky rock (it looks like a little mountain) instantly grows out of the ground, doing Slash damage and potentially stunning enemies in the area of effect.
Plant:- Wall of Thorns - like Icewind Dale's Wall of Moonlight, but made of thorns and much longer, and doing Pierce damage to anyone who passes through.
- Garden of Life - plants grow from the bodies of killed enemies in the area of effect, which in turn cause a healing/regeneration effect on all nearby allies. Does nothing if there are no dead bodies in the area of effect.
Animal:- Infestation of Maggots - "Enemies in the area of effect have their skin infested by hordes of burrowing maggots, inflicting Raw damage over time. The more wounded the target, the greater the damage". So basically like BG2's Creeping Doom, but only effective against already injured enemies, which makes it more tactically interesting.
- Beetle's Shell - "An allied target is encased in a shell that prevents him or her from taking actions (including moving) but will absorb a fixed amount of damage before shattering". This can be cast at a distance, so is very useful for protecting a front-line warrior who is being swarmed by enemies.
Don't worry too much about stealing ideas from Pillars of Eternity; after all, they also took lots of ideas from D&D and the Infinity Engine games. E.g. their "Overwhelming Wave" spell is the same as IWD's "Smashing Wave" spell; their "Firebrand" spell is pretty much the same as IWD's "Flame Blade" spell, etc...Sure enough raising undead is not very druidic but decay is natural. Druids are all about natural flows or cycles and can speed or modify them in a direction (regeneration) or the other (decay). And well, every creature is to die in the wild
Again I agree regarding raise undead spells but not the general idea of every necromancy spells.
Heh, I am definitely not worried. I'm sure they will be happy with a link to their game!
Actually, I have to look closer at that game...
@subtledoctor how reasonable would this be, do you think? I'm happy to make 1,000 spells if required...
Baervan:
Weapon: Spear
Major: Animal, Earth, Life/Healing, Plant, Vigor, Water (6)
Minor: Air, Divine Aid, Protection, Light, Thought/Charm (5)
Bit short on the minor sphere side. Baervan is a nature deity as opposed to a more abstract-concept type deity so he's kind of got a more druidy aspect to him. I could move Earth and Water to Minor but I'm wondering what I should replace them with (should they even be replaced?)
Baravar:
Weapon: Dagger
Major: Deception, Knowledge, Protection, Shadow, Thought/Charm (5)
Minor: Affliction, Divine Aid, Dread, Life/Healing, Magic (5)
Less than average, but has access to the special spheres. Baravar is a guardian deity with a bent towards trickster like defenses - illusions and such. So we're talking self preservation with a bent towards preventative methods. The magic access is something that could be changed, as well as the divine aid sphere. It grants a bit of an overt flavour to a god that I see as acting more subtly.
Clangeddin
Weapon: Axe
Major: Divine Aid, Earth, Light, Protection, Vigor, War (6)
Minor: Destruction, Dread, Knowledge, Life/Healing, (4)
A bit low on the minors. Clangeddin is a more active deity; like a dwarfy, more militant Torm. To tell the truth, I'm kind of blanking on him. I could make him make him follow the Might and Guild to make him a more fightery-cleric by adding passives but I'm kind of attached to having the kit be a single class kit.
Don't have demi deities in front of me, but, let's see...
Clangeddin could probably add healing as a major, and be good. He would have one more major than normal to make up for the few minors
Baravar should move healing to major and also divine aid to major, and you have about the same situation.
I don't know Baervan well, but what about adding dread and affliction as minors?
Dread and affliction seem a bit too sinister for Baervan. He's a prankster but not a full trickster archetype (although adding them would fit into that in a sense; access to be a nuisance, but not to be a threat). Knowledge could work, especially if you see Baervan as a wilderness explorer and the minor knowledge spells help exploration in their own way.
- +Knowledge minor has him at 6,6. +Dread or Affliction minor has him at 6,7.
Baravar having Dread as a major fits, but air is kind of weird. Does Destruction for the big stuff maybe, or even Death as the whole 'success at any cost' work? Bumping up magic is an option, but I think it would go against the mod's design goals and I'm a stickler for consistency.
- ^Dread major would result him at 7,4, but with access to both exclusive spheres (which could offset him having minor healing).
Clangeddin getting an extra major sphere could work considering major access usually works out to the same spell number as 2 minor accesses. I may bump up healing or destruction; either could work, although I'm leaning towards destruction. Demihuman Deities has healing as a minor sphere. It also has him as having Sun Major access hence the Light major, which I guess makes sense if you consider trolls as giants? Knowledge minor can also work, as can Thought/Charm minor if you regard them as symbolic of tactical thinking.
- ^Healing or Destruction and +Knowledge or Thought minor bumps him to 7,4. Same boat as Baravar but no exclusive sphere access. If +Knowledge AND thought that works out to 7,5 which is okay.
How about a Spike-Growth-on-steroids for either or both of these spheres?
I.e. a spell (either stone or plant themed) that makes a stationary area of effect very very painful to be in for enemies for several rounds...
I think Refinements has a Druid HLA like that. This is my favorite Refinements HLA. Very memorable and very useful.
Though perhaps a little too powerful... Maybe do it without the Mislead effect? Or freeze the caster for the duration of the spell, like Project Image does?
Now, I'm going to defer to @subtledoctor on this, but I think that it is possible to make another sphere universal, or to create a whole new sphere entirely (even if it involves creating new spells--god knows, I love creating spells). But, the problem is 'what sphere', or if a new universal sphere, 'what spells should be included?' Cleric characters have typically played the role of the healer, and so it seems to make sense to give them all that sphere. That means that some gods aren't quite canonical, however. Talona, for example, is a bit off.
So, you really want Baravar to have major access to healing (for now...) Yeah, but that healing really needs to be major...Or we could move back to Divine Aid (or another sphere). We need to set it in stone at some point, however, as it will become more and more difficult to retroactively revise all kits. That would be fun: plant could be 'entangle on steroids'. It could have a name like, "Strangling Vines", or something like that Man, this is a seperate issue, but I would really like to nerf simulacrum...It should drain the original caster's spells. Anyway, I think that it is possible to pause the caster while the spell is in effect.
On the other hand some generalist HLA like permanent bless etc... are always useful and meaningful when you choose them and there are a lot of possibilities (emotion:courage or whatever).
Baervan
Major: Animal, Earth, Life/Healing, Plant, Vigor, Water (6)
Minor: Air, Divine Aid, Dread, Knowledge, Protection, Light, Thought/Charm (7)
On target!
Baravar
Major: Deception, Dread, Knowledge, Life/Healing, Protection, Shadow, Thought/Charm (7)
Minor: Affliction, Destruction, Divine Aid, Magic (4)
Baravar turned kind of sinister sphere wise. Fitting his concept in a way I'm happy with. I kind of want to bump up Affliction, and remove destruction so he comes to 8,2. Is that allowed? If it's too out there I'm happy leaving it as is.
Clangeddin
Major: Divine Aid, Earth, Life/Healing, Light, Protection, Vigor, War (7)
Minor: Destruction, Dread, Fire, Knowledge, Thought/Charm (5)
Fire wasn't in his original wheelhouse before, but he does have major light/sun access so...