I still want to have a uniform spell selection though, between IWDEE and BG. So I still think we should bring over all the IWDEE spells. I may have mentioned, I think I saw a post somewhere by @Dee or some other Beamdog person, saying it's okay for a mod to copy assets over from one Beamdog game for use in another Beamdog game...
And we *still* at this late hour, don't know whether SoD will bring those spell files and animations over to BGEE/BG2EE. I'm guessing not... but who knows?
... That's also part of my hesitation. I don't want to do a ton of work recreating a bunch of spells that will be ported over anyway(though, @bob_veng makes a good point) Edit: That said, I'm happy to do the work if it's necessary
right now, i feel pretty sure that they won't bring many spells over, maybe just a few. for example it has been stated that druid hasn't yet received new low level useful spells which he sorely needs.
Well, the druid will receive those spells if you install this mod. Plus a whole bunch of crazy awesome special abilities.
Yes, you can use any resource from BG:EE, BGII:EE, or IWD:EE in your mods. Obviously don't just release a 2 GB "Play BGII:EE with the BG:EE UI" mod that includes every file from BGII:EE unchanged, but if you're looking to use a spell or an item from IWD:EE in your BG:EE mod, that should be alright.
No, we specifically want to bring over the IWD spells - Wall of Moonlight, Malavon's Rage, Suffocate, all that stuff.
And it will actually be quite laborious, I think: export each spell from NI, manually copy out the description text and paste it into our tra file... etc. Honestly I kind of dread doing this, especially since 95% of it is already packaged up so nicely in the IWDification mod. But, that 5% missing includes Wall of Moonlight, which I love and which is an important spell in the sphere of Light. And installing those spells automatically will be much easier on players than requiring them to install IWDification separately.
Let's wait until it becomes clear that we will have to do this...
Oh yeah, that can wait. And if we do that, it will seriously complicate our compatibility with Spell Revisions.
Another complication: many of these new spells make heavy use of the new opcodes. Makes perfect sense, but will make conversion to BGT very difficult and much more time consuming. I actually don't know how I would convert (e.g.) moonwall atm.
...maybe it would be best to require IWDification for BGT and original BG 2 versions... I want to support these versions, but I have to admit that I'm not very enthusiastic about recreating IWDEE spells for them
When the original BGEE came out, there were so many bugs, and left out Tobex features that I was honestly torn. I felt that the EE's should be the obvious choice for modding (and playing), but yet I could point to so many things that you could do better in (a Tobex enhanced) BG2/BGT. This does not seem to be the case anymore (though, I certainly could be wrong). The only thing that really annoys me now is opcode #233, which alters proficiency, but no longer allows one to add proficiency points. But, in the grand scheme, this is minor (though, has anybody put in a feature request for this? Anyway)
So, long story short, I'm much (much!) more enthusiastic about modding for EE than vanilla, at least in terms of porting over the spells. Presumably, SoD will come with all of the goodies from IWDEE (opcodes, etc.) making this a fairly straightforward affair, while for BG2 and BGT, I will have to do some mental gymnastics to figure out how to implement them. And, IWDification has already done that, and will almost certainly be much better than whatever I can come up with.
So, I propose to keep the IWDification requirement for BG2 and BGT...I hope that this is not too much of an issue for anybody, but please speak up if so.
The only thing that really annoys me now is opcode #233, which alters proficiency, but no longer allows one to add proficiency points. But, in the grand scheme, this is minor (though, has anybody put in a feature request for this? Anyway)
Turns out it already allows incremental adjustments, both positive and negative. There is no bounds checking though, so you don't want to accidentally reduce below 0 or above 5. The 3rd byte of Parameter 2 controls whether it is 'SET'[0] or 'INCREMENT'[1].
The only thing that really annoys me now is opcode #233, which alters proficiency, but no longer allows one to add proficiency points. But, in the grand scheme, this is minor (though, has anybody put in a feature request for this? Anyway)
Turns out it already allows incremental adjustments, both positive and negative. There is no bounds checking though, so you don't want to accidentally reduce below 0 or above 5. The 3rd byte of Parameter 2 controls whether it is 'SET'[0] or 'INCREMENT'[1].
It works fine and NI recognizes this parameter now as well (if you want to manually compile the sources). I wish Beamdog would publish a modder's guide about changes made in the Enhanced Editions somewhere.
Really would be nice if such added features were disclosed to us. I looked up how it worked in Tobex just to try it out, my surprise that it worked in IWDEE and BG2EE didn't compare to my surprise that it already works in BG1EE. It's been in for 1.5 years already, and none of us have noticed.
It works fine and NI recognizes this parameter now as well (if you want to manually compile the sources). I wish Beamdog would publish a modder's guide about changes made in the Enhanced Editions somewhere.
Looks like it is time for me to update NI.
To be fair, @CamDawg has given us a lot of information...
I try to stay on top of code changes so I can get them to the IESDP, but I'm hampered by the fact that usually there are a ton of changes or (since someone else did it/drove the process) I rarely have complete docs. The other problem is that we often can't communicate changes until a game is released--e.g. had you seen all of the projectile and opcode changes before IWDEE's release, it would have given away that we were working on it long before it was officially announced.
I just read all 14 pages of this and I love it. The work you guys have been doing is amazing and I am really excited about this (as well and T+B and M+G). I am definitely interested in helping out in any way I can, which brings me onto...
Something I would like to put out there, that I didn't want to get buried in the last post:
If anybody is comfortable creating bams, and would like to contribute to this mod, please pm me (or respond here). I could really use some help creating bams for these new spells and hlas.
Thanks
I am currently in the process of trying to create new bams for spells (new spell graphics), if I get something sorted for myself, maybe I could try making some spell animations for you guy?s
Gonna test some simple lightning tonight hopefully when I get home and can find out what sizes and what not are needed in bam workshop.
If all goes as planned, is that the sort of Bams you are interested in? Or is it spell icons kind? Either way I might be able to help, at least on the art front.
I just read all 14 pages of this and I love it. The work you guys have been doing is amazing and I am really excited about this (as well and T+B and M+G). I am definitely interested in helping out in any way I can, which brings me onto...
Something I would like to put out there, that I didn't want to get buried in the last post:
If anybody is comfortable creating bams, and would like to contribute to this mod, please pm me (or respond here). I could really use some help creating bams for these new spells and hlas.
Thanks
I am currently in the process of trying to create new bams for spells (new spell graphics), if I get something sorted for myself, maybe I could try making some spell animations for you guy?s
Gonna test some simple lightning tonight hopefully when I get home and can find out what sizes and what not are needed in bam workshop.
If all goes as planned, is that the sort of Bams you are interested in? Or is it spell icons kind? Either way I might be able to help, at least on the art front.
As subtle says, we primarily need help with the icons. I'll send you some samples of a,b and c icons this Saturday, as well as a list of spells that need new icons.
We'll figure out the details, but I'd be happy with just bitmaps (with the correct dimensions) if you aren't 100% comfortable creating bams. Whatever works!
That said, I'm happy to get some help with animations! Whatever you are comfortable with!
Edit: I can't see the graphic on my phone, and I'm not going to be at a good computer for a couple of days, which if why I haven't commented on it
Awesome, I am sure I will have some time to mock up some images on the weekend and send them through. I will give the bam making a go, but of course I can create .bmp if i can't get them working haha. For now I will focus my efforts where they are most needed, and will make you guys icons.
Maybe it will help in the long run for making bam animations anyway, so probably the best place to start.
Awesome, I am sure I will have some time to mock up some images on the weekend and send them through. I will give the bam making a go, but of course I can create .bmp if i can't get them working haha. For now I will focus my efforts where they are most needed, and will make you guys icons.
Maybe it will help in the long run for making bam animations anyway, so probably the best place to start.
Great! Oh, and feel free to share those icons here, so people can give (constructive) feedback.
My thinking is to have both spell and corresponding scroll icons (for when we introduce divine scroll scribing if nothing else).
Also, if you want to try your hand at making wands, and/or potion bottles that would be great as well.
As for spell icons, I can give you some names and basic descriptions for now to get the juices flowing:
Animal Eyes The caster enchants an allied animal such that they can see through their eyes (and so, like a familiar or wizard eye, can scout ahead)
I was thinking of using the charm person or animal icon, and just removing the vertical 'slashes' around the eye for this--i will send you the images as examples if nothing else--but feel free to offer an alternative
Disrupt Undead This spell deals direct magic damage to undead as it disrupts the negative energies that animate them.
Misfire
Gives the target a huge penalty to hit with ranged attacks
Assassin Vines Entangle with crushing damage (I'm assuming that I can get this to work...)
Spores Creates a cloud of spores that damage and inhibit enemies. Something like that
Pacify the dead An undead specific slow effect
Forbiddance like command, but opponent can't move for 2 rounds
Frost fingers a cold version of burning hands.
Murderous command makes enemy attack nearest creature (friend or foe) for 2 rounds.
For ice blade, maybe something similar to the fire blade, but.. Icy (?)
Maybe pacify would have an undead or a skull with the hourglass in the background (or foreground)
Sorry I should have been more specific, I meant the change like icy fingers, so flame blade but made icy haha.
Has the size of the BMP's used to make the spell bams been increased since the BG1 days? (It was something like 32x32, or are we still working to that sort of size?
Okay, @IchigoRXC Thank you for your patience! You were right. They are 32x32. Okay, so attached I have some examples (I'm doing this here, because I'm not sure that I can send files via pm)
It looks like a two sequence gif (with the exact same image) would work for a and b bams. If you would rather just do a single bmp, that's fine too. I can create a bam from that. I don't know why they have 2 sequences, but anyway. Another oddity, I deleted the original frames in the original Image but DLTCEP still 'sees' them (though BAMworkshop doesn't). I don't know why, but it seems that only the non-deleted images appear in the game.
Sorry, I'm rambling.
- Anyway, please feel free to submit a gif, bmp or bam (or I can work with a jpg too, probably).
- Dimensions 32x32. Samples in the folder titled, "(poor) examples", though there are also some useful looking gif's and bams in the folder titled, "Bam Kit" (though, I'm not sure that those have the 'right' green.
- Color Conventions:
- it seems that offensive spells are colored a redish (as in the sample titled, "b_c102...". D'oh! I just realized that this spell is not offensive in nature. I created it from the 'charm person or mammal' icon, which is offensive. I need to change it to white)
- Defensive/curing spells are colored blue (as the sample titled, 'blue.bmp' in the (poor) examples folder.)
- Divination/knowledge spells are white (as the sample titled, 'white.bmp' in the (poor) examples folder)
- Conjuration/summoning spells are green (as the sample titled, 'green.bmp' in the (poor) examples folder).
- Chaos spells seem to incorporate all colors (I could also use some help creating wizard spell icons if you're interested, for TnB...completely up to you, of course Actually, may be relevant to this mod as well if we create some sort of chaos priest.
- Naming Conventions:
The convention is, ""
My sample begins with my prefix, "b_". Please feel free to use your own prefix if you have one. If you aren't sure about what I'm talking about, modders can register a prefix here:
The primary purpose for registering a prefix is to ensure that files from different mods don't have identical names, but it is also a way of recognizing the individual that did the work.
I want you to get your recognition, so I encourage you to get a prefix.
You have to register with blackwyrmlair, which can be a bit of a pain as I recall. In any case, if you don't have a prefix, please use mine for now (we still need to ensure that there are no naming conflicts). We will switch to yours as soon as you get it, however. Again, you deserve to get credit for the work that you do!
Anyway, after the prefix, the letter c denotes, internally, that the spell is a cleric spell. Then, comes the level of the spell and a sequential (arbitrary) number denoting the order in which the spell was created. Then, either A, B or C depending on the Bam type. A is for the scroll icon. B is for the Game UI, and C is for the spellbook icon. Basically, I'll be giving you the specific names to save my sanity (though, again, wherever I write "B_" or "b_" please feel free to substitute your own prefix, now or in the future).
Here is the 'current' list of spells that need icons:
Forbiddance: commands an opponent to stop in their tracks for 2 rounds unless they make a save.
Red color, name "b_c201" A,B and C versions
Pacify the Dead An undead specific slow effect.
Red color, name "b_c202" A,B and C versions
Murderous Command: Commands one opponent to attack the nearest creature in hand to hand, friend of foe.
Red color, name "b_c301" A,B and C versions
Frost Fingers: cold version of burning hands
Red color, name "b_c103" A,B and C versions
Eyes of the Dead Undead version of animal eyes. See through the eyes on an undead ally.
White color, name "b_c104" A,B and C versions
Misfire: curses one opponent to have almost no chance to hit with ranged attacks
I just read all 14 pages of this and I love it. The work you guys have been doing is amazing and I am really excited about this (as well and T+B and M+G). I am definitely interested in helping out in any way I can, which brings me onto...
Something I would like to put out there, that I didn't want to get buried in the last post:
If anybody is comfortable creating bams, and would like to contribute to this mod, please pm me (or respond here). I could really use some help creating bams for these new spells and hlas.
Thanks
I am currently in the process of trying to create new bams for spells (new spell graphics), if I get something sorted for myself, maybe I could try making some spell animations for you guy?s
Gonna test some simple lightning tonight hopefully when I get home and can find out what sizes and what not are needed in bam workshop.
If all goes as planned, is that the sort of Bams you are interested in? Or is it spell icons kind? Either way I might be able to help, at least on the art front.
@Grammarsalad Well unless I have a spell that it could be used for I should probably focus on things that can be used immediately. I can look into making a smokebomb like effect if the one you have is not up to scratch.
@Grammarsalad Well unless I have a spell that it could be used for I should probably focus on things that can be used immediately. I can look into making a smokebomb like effect if the one you have is not up to scratch.
I was thinking about a conjure smoke spell, that obscures vision and makes people all chokey.
Also, I'm sure that @subtledoctor would appreciate a smoke bomb like effect (which would be smaller)
I know something like this would only require one gif as it doesn't need to 'face' in any particular direction.
That said, is thinking of a spell for the image you have there: something like a 'lightning lash'spell.
Oh, another thing: I think that you want less 'open space/green' in your GIF, focusing more on the effect itself with the green as a minimized background.
Anyway, if you can provide some gifs, I'll see about getting them to work as bams.
Edit: or, I'm happy giving you advice on how to do this. Either way
Oh, another thing: I think that you want less 'open space/green' in your GIF, focusing more on the effect itself with the green as a minimized background.
Anyway, if you can provide some gifs, I'll see about getting them to work as bams.
Edit: or, I'm happy giving you advice on how to do this. Either way
Yeah, The large amounts of green are mainly because I don't know what canvas size I can use for the animations yet because I haven't gone in and unpacked a spell bam yet to see. (If anyone knows what sorts of sizes that would be awesome).
Basically once I have a spell example from BGEE/2 I should be able to reverse engineer and resize/edit my animations to work.
One thing I did think about when it comes to the lightning animation is how would the animation resize depending on distance from the target.
Comments
Edit:
That said, I'm happy to do the work if it's necessary
...maybe it would be best to require IWDification for BGT and original BG 2 versions... I want to support these versions, but I have to admit that I'm not very enthusiastic about recreating IWDEE spells for them
When the original BGEE came out, there were so many bugs, and left out Tobex features that I was honestly torn. I felt that the EE's should be the obvious choice for modding (and playing), but yet I could point to so many things that you could do better in (a Tobex enhanced) BG2/BGT. This does not seem to be the case anymore (though, I certainly could be wrong). The only thing that really annoys me now is opcode #233, which alters proficiency, but no longer allows one to add proficiency points. But, in the grand scheme, this is minor (though, has anybody put in a feature request for this? Anyway)
So, long story short, I'm much (much!) more enthusiastic about modding for EE than vanilla, at least in terms of porting over the spells. Presumably, SoD will come with all of the goodies from IWDEE (opcodes, etc.) making this a fairly straightforward affair, while for BG2 and BGT, I will have to do some mental gymnastics to figure out how to implement them. And, IWDification has already done that, and will almost certainly be much better than whatever I can come up with.
So, I propose to keep the IWDification requirement for BG2 and BGT...I hope that this is not too much of an issue for anybody, but please speak up if so.
The 3rd byte of Parameter 2 controls whether it is 'SET'[0] or 'INCREMENT'[1].
To be fair, @CamDawg has given us a lot of information...
I try to stay on top of code changes so I can get them to the IESDP, but I'm hampered by the fact that usually there are a ton of changes or (since someone else did it/drove the process) I rarely have complete docs. The other problem is that we often can't communicate changes until a game is released--e.g. had you seen all of the projectile and opcode changes before IWDEE's release, it would have given away that we were working on it long before it was officially announced.
Gonna test some simple lightning tonight hopefully when I get home and can find out what sizes and what not are needed in bam workshop.
If all goes as planned, is that the sort of Bams you are interested in? Or is it spell icons kind? Either way I might be able to help, at least on the art front.
As subtle says, we primarily need help with the icons. I'll send you some samples of a,b and c icons this Saturday, as well as a list of spells that need new icons.
We'll figure out the details, but I'd be happy with just bitmaps (with the correct dimensions) if you aren't 100% comfortable creating bams. Whatever works!
That said, I'm happy to get some help with animations! Whatever you are comfortable with!
Edit: I can't see the graphic on my phone, and I'm not going to be at a good computer for a couple of days, which if why I haven't commented on it
Maybe it will help in the long run for making bam animations anyway, so probably the best place to start.
My thinking is to have both spell and corresponding scroll icons (for when we introduce divine scroll scribing if nothing else).
Also, if you want to try your hand at making wands, and/or potion bottles that would be great as well.
As for spell icons, I can give you some names and basic descriptions for now to get the juices flowing:
Animal Eyes
The caster enchants an allied animal such that they can see through their eyes (and so, like a familiar or wizard eye, can scout ahead)
I was thinking of using the charm person or animal icon, and just removing the vertical 'slashes' around the eye for this--i will send you the images as examples if nothing else--but feel free to offer an alternative
Disrupt Undead
This spell deals direct magic damage to undead as it disrupts the negative energies that animate them.
Misfire
Gives the target a huge penalty to hit with ranged attacks
Assassin Vines
Entangle with crushing damage (I'm assuming that I can get this to work...)
Spores
Creates a cloud of spores that damage and inhibit enemies. Something like that
Pacify the dead
An undead specific slow effect
Forbiddance
like command, but opponent can't move for 2 rounds
Frost fingers
a cold version of burning hands.
Murderous command
makes enemy attack nearest creature (friend or foe) for 2 rounds.
Ice Blade
Conjures a blade if ice
That is all I can think of off the top of my head
Maybe pacify would have an undead or a skull with the hourglass in the background (or foreground)
Maybe a pointing hand, but one has it pointed at tied feet the other a berserker
Has the size of the BMP's used to make the spell bams been increased since the BG1 days? (It was something like 32x32, or are we still working to that sort of size?
Thank you for your patience! You were right. They are 32x32. Okay, so attached I have some examples (I'm doing this here, because I'm not sure that I can send files via pm)
Attached is a 'bam pack' that was generously donated by @Red_Carnelian here:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/42011/blazing-bams
It looks like a two sequence gif (with the exact same image) would work for a and b bams. If you would rather just do a single bmp, that's fine too. I can create a bam from that. I don't know why they have 2 sequences, but anyway. Another oddity, I deleted the original frames in the original Image but DLTCEP still 'sees' them (though BAMworkshop doesn't). I don't know why, but it seems that only the non-deleted images appear in the game.
Sorry, I'm rambling.
- Anyway, please feel free to submit a gif, bmp or bam (or I can work with a jpg too, probably).
- Dimensions 32x32. Samples in the folder titled, "(poor) examples", though there are also some useful looking gif's and bams in the folder titled, "Bam Kit" (though, I'm not sure that those have the 'right' green.
- Color Conventions:
- it seems that offensive spells are colored a redish (as in the sample titled, "b_c102...". D'oh! I just realized that this spell is not offensive in nature. I created it from the 'charm person or mammal' icon, which is offensive. I need to change it to white)
- Defensive/curing spells are colored blue (as the sample titled, 'blue.bmp' in the (poor) examples folder.)
- Divination/knowledge spells are white (as the sample titled, 'white.bmp' in the (poor) examples folder)
- Conjuration/summoning spells are green (as the sample titled, 'green.bmp' in the (poor) examples folder).
- Chaos spells seem to incorporate all colors (I could also use some help creating wizard spell icons if you're interested, for TnB...completely up to you, of course
- Naming Conventions:
The convention is, ""
My sample begins with my prefix, "b_". Please feel free to use your own prefix if you have one. If you aren't sure about what I'm talking about, modders can register a prefix here:
http://forums.blackwyrmlair.net/index.php?showtopic=113
The primary purpose for registering a prefix is to ensure that files from different mods don't have identical names, but it is also a way of recognizing the individual that did the work.
I want you to get your recognition, so I encourage you to get a prefix.
You have to register with blackwyrmlair, which can be a bit of a pain as I recall. In any case, if you don't have a prefix, please use mine for now (we still need to ensure that there are no naming conflicts). We will switch to yours as soon as you get it, however. Again, you deserve to get credit for the work that you do!
Anyway, after the prefix, the letter c denotes, internally, that the spell is a cleric spell. Then, comes the level of the spell and a sequential (arbitrary) number denoting the order in which the spell was created. Then, either A, B or C depending on the Bam type. A is for the scroll icon. B is for the Game UI, and C is for the spellbook icon. Basically, I'll be giving you the specific names to save my sanity (though, again, wherever I write "B_" or "b_" please feel free to substitute your own prefix, now or in the future).
Here is the 'current' list of spells that need icons:
Forbiddance: commands an opponent to stop in their tracks for 2 rounds unless they make a save.
Red color, name "b_c201" A,B and C versions
Pacify the Dead An undead specific slow effect.
Red color, name "b_c202" A,B and C versions
Murderous Command: Commands one opponent to attack the nearest creature in hand to hand, friend of foe.
Red color, name "b_c301" A,B and C versions
Frost Fingers: cold version of burning hands
Red color, name "b_c103" A,B and C versions
Eyes of the Dead Undead version of animal eyes. See through the eyes on an undead ally.
White color, name "b_c104" A,B and C versions
Misfire: curses one opponent to have almost no chance to hit with ranged attacks
Red color, name "b_c501" A,B and C versions
Storm Wall: basically, a wall of electricity
Red color, name "b_c401" A,B and C versions
Disrupt Undead
Red color, name "b_c105" A,B and C versions
Ice Blade: Ice version of fire blade
Green color, name "b_c203" A,B and C versions
I want to encourage you to create some graphics if you want.
Something like the above would need an additional 7 gifs, each facing a different direction (i.e: north, ne, e, es, s, sw, w(you have this), wn).
Also, I'm sure that @subtledoctor would appreciate a smoke bomb like effect (which would be smaller)
I know something like this would only require one gif as it doesn't need to 'face' in any particular direction.
That said, is thinking of a spell for the image you have there: something like a 'lightning lash'spell.
Oh, another thing: I think that you want less 'open space/green' in your GIF, focusing more on the effect itself with the green as a minimized background.
Anyway, if you can provide some gifs, I'll see about getting them to work as bams.
Edit: or, I'm happy giving you advice on how to do this. Either way
Basically once I have a spell example from BGEE/2 I should be able to reverse engineer and resize/edit my animations to work.
One thing I did think about when it comes to the lightning animation is how would the animation resize depending on distance from the target.