Seriously though, anything 4E doesn't really apply here. Even timeline wise, it takes places well after the Baldur's Gate series. The link to the Order of the Sun Soul gave me an interesting thought, about Rasaad's reactions in the Umar Hills quests.
Anyway, back to topic. No on polyamorous relationships, unless it fits the character(s). In development, though, I think there should be a break at some point.
Ex. In the Haer'Dalis romance mod, HD is perfectly willing to be a fling on the side while you romance someone else. At some point though, even he realizes this is not enough, and looks for commitment.
With everything else going on in the saga, who has time to romance so many people and keep them from killing each other?
Romances: Bicker Bicker Bicker PC: .... Irenicus: I will utterly destroy you! PC: Do it. DO IT NOW! KILL ME!
@zarffyn The funny thing is that rightly by leaving 4e's (and 3e's) timeline and lore out, Selûne is back into Sune's "entourage" and thus into love etc. The change was made by the Faiths and Pantheons sourcebook according to this article's sources (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sune#cite_note-F.26P66-0), and it's a 3rd edition product. So 4th edition only brought things back to the old canon, in this particular aspect. :-)
@GueulEclator Maybe because it is a popular feature that many people enjoyed and desire more of... or perhaps because they require so many posts to keep on track. -_-+
Good gravy I'm posting on a forum from a PS3. what is wrong with me? (A:I care too much)
@TenYaiba yeah well, I guess i'm the only one who never cared about romance in this game. My attention was more on the strategic depth, superb environment, the awesomeness of the spell and the insane story/character. I was never really interested by the whole loveXlove stuff, I'm not really a twilight guy.
GueulEclator That's quite unkind to the developers of this game, comparing their writing to such a book.
Furthermore, "popular" doesn't mean everybody on earth except you. You may notice that the list of posters here is quite limited compared to say... the MEME thread. Most people who don't care about the topic at hand simply don't post here, rather than make derisive and opinionated posts that could very well be seen as a thinly veiled attempt to simply decry the subject of discussion.
If you have something to add to our list of features that you want to bring to our attention, we would be delighted to hear your suggestions. Otherwise I'm absolutely certain that the forums offer a thread that appeals to your refined tastes and breathlessly awaits your input.
Here is a dark thought: A Romance II mod, continue the romances of the originals, complete with marriage quest, pregnancy quest, house quest, raising child npc quest, and even an optional divorce quest.
Here is a dark thought: A Romance II mod, continue the romances of the originals, complete with marriage quest, pregnancy quest, house quest, raising child npc quest, and even an optional divorce quest.
Here's a better thought:
PC and romanceable NPC continue their adventures, saving Faerun, kicking ass, and taking names.
In SoA there was pregnancy for the same character but it was bad end for being an irresponsible git.
Technically there's a house quest... but some of the fortresses might not be the best place to raise a child Planar Sphere I'm looking at you. Unless you could do some redecorating, move the corpses, spruce up the squishy organic room >.> evict the carnivorous halflings...
Here is a dark thought: A Romance II mod, continue the romances of the originals, complete with marriage quest, pregnancy quest, house quest, raising child npc quest, and even an optional divorce quest.
Why not play sims medieval then? Seriously Baldur's gate is an adventure game where you fight Badasses in an awesome environment/story with a bunch of psycho NPC at your side.
Time to break out the defibrillators and commit a good old fashioned Necro-Post. (*GASP*! Necroposting... The most foul and despised forms of Forumancy.)
So one other person would rather leave polyamourism out of the game for now (I would think that to be represented properly it might be a mountain of code, for one.)
We've expressed desire to remedy the lack of options for the vertically challenged CHARNAMEs: I wonder if simply removing the race restriction would help fit this, though they tend to be rare, relationships between the Small-races/dwarves (since dwarves aren't Small) and others HAS happened. anyone know if Korgan ever made googly eyes at female evil dwarven CHARNAMEs? Joking aside I agree that this issue should be remedied by inclusion of additional character prospects and the removal of the race restriction (Though I never even knew it existed, to be honest).
NPC-Non-party-member Relationships. Maybe? More interaction with the game world would be welcome as always. It could be an amusing point when a non-party-able NPC gets jealous of your companions for "Bro-ing around too much"/"thinks they're more than friends."
Finally, I don't care if the additional content takes a year, as long as it's up to snuff I can wait.
We've expressed desire to remedy the lack of options for the vertically challenged CHARNAMEs: I wonder if simply removing the race restriction would help fit this, though they tend to be rare, relationships between the Small-races/dwarves (since dwarves aren't Small) and others HAS happened. anyone know if Korgan ever made googly eyes at female evil dwarven CHARNAMEs? Joking aside I agree that this issue should be remedied by inclusion of additional character prospects and the removal of the race restriction (Though I never even knew it existed, to be honest).
NPC-Non-party-member Relationships. Maybe? More interaction with the game world would be welcome as always. It could be an amusing point when a non-party-able NPC gets jealous of your companions for "Bro-ing around too much"/"thinks they're more than friends."
Finally, I don't care if the additional content takes a year, as long as it's up to snuff I can wait.
Any thoughts?
Oo, pick me! Pick me!
I think less limitations on races for romances is a good idea overall, as long as it makes sense for the character. One thing I liked about some of the various mods, was they include specific dialogue tailored towards specific races. It increases immersion, honestly. I think Jahiera and Aerie would be more open to love with all the wrong races , whereas Viconia and Anomen would be more choosy.
I'm not sure of NPC+ non-joinable NPC relationships. They exist (Keldorn, for example) mostly as sidequests. I'm not sure I want to add much to that. However, adding another one or two NPC-NPC romances, as with Haer'Dalis & Aerie, I could enjoy. My last playthrough of BG2, Kelsey romanced Imoen in ToB, and I enjoyed that a lot.
But. BUT. I don't want my BG game turning into Jersey Shore.
We've expressed desire to remedy the lack of options for the vertically challenged CHARNAMEs: I wonder if simply removing the race restriction would help fit this, though they tend to be rare, relationships between the Small-races/dwarves (since dwarves aren't Small) and others HAS happened.
In fact they're BG2 "canon": all LIs accept halflings.
@Zarffyn More Haer-Dalises die because they make one too many lingering looks at that sweet little elf. (The one time I act like the Bhaalspawn I'm supposed to be) In all seriousness I think PC and Non-Joinale-NPC romance could work, if the strongholds were updated. give you a reason to hang out [Spoiler] in your thieves guild, keep, giant magical artifact that made over 50 people suddenly homeless. [/spoiler] Just some food for thought. I agree with your comment on keeping in the character, but whether it was just oversight or coding mistake or actual intention, I'm leery about altering the race restriction on existing characters, it seems like thought was put into it, and I'd hate to lose the original artist's interpretations of these characters. But for anyone new? Yes, make interesting characters with cool reasons to want other races, we need more variety of Bhaalspawnspawn.
@TenYaiba: While I do agree that there needs to be more love coming from and going to the shorties, I cant help but be opposed to a default removal of the restrictions entirely. While never expressed outright, some NPCs would have difficulty adjusting to a radical stature difference - and that just matches their personality and history. I could see Aerie going for a gnome because it matches her faith and her having comfortable emotional relations with that race in the past. I cant see male dwarves getting any love because all romancible females in BG-universe happen to be elves. Things like this COULD in terms of story-telling be overcome if it were willing to address the race differences through lovetalks... but thats something we're more likely to see from mods (and even then I've yet to see one that adjusts its lovetalks to match your race) Short story from me: either they should do it right and make glaring racial incompatibility something to overcome through dialogue and romance, or they should leave it be and let custom mods deal with it.
NPC-Non-party-member Relationships. Maybe? More interaction with the game world would be welcome as always. It could be an amusing point when a non-party-able NPC gets jealous of your companions for "Bro-ing around too much"/"thinks they're more than friends."
I think its very challenging to write this as you're not around a person often enough for them to develop jealousy for your traveling group. Anything more than a fling may be too sudden. And even if it was written in, the top 5 types of non-party character you see in BG2 are tavern owners, merchants who sell weapons, prominent plot figures like Arin Linvail or Elhan, minor plot figures like solaufein or phaere and major plot figures (eg. irenicus or bodhi). How about if you could (or had to) take your lover out of your party to protect them while you complete a series of quests? Instead of them hating you for neglecting them, how about you go back, talk some more and have different things to say? Its always awkward when you say "I have too many traveling companions" and leave an NPC to stand passively all day. Maybe if they had tasks they were doing it would be more legitimate for you to progressively check-up on them.
This is going to take too long to reply to all your interesting ideas on a PS3. Placeholder for a thoughtful response when I wake up and get to a computer.
Well the nonparty-NPC thing sort of worked in the main NWN campaign with Aarin Gend, but it was a bit stiff. Though I guess it says something that I had to dig my brain for the name of the character for a moment there.
I'm all for fluffy and less so romances for all races and genders as long as the writing's good and characters interesting!
@CrazedSlayer I'm kind of on the fence here on the Race restriction, and reading through the various arguments for and against it on this forum... I think that in a few instances the race restriction should be altered based on character... But that requires a lot of character analysis and care to not ruin the vision... Here's my opinion on the alterations.
Aerie: It makes sense to ME, at the very least, that it is removed entirely. She attaches to CHARNAME for rescuing her and taking her under his wi... uh... into the party. It's even feasible in my mind that the gender restriction be lifted, though that's much harder to rationalize. The attachment forged is through traveling with CHARNAME and experiencing the world with them. Another point is that If I'm not mistaken that She will, if otherwise unengaged take Haer-Dalis, A tiefling... of all races. There's not much reason for her to eschew her rescuer just because they're a halfling or dwarf. Even half-orc has an argument as she initially attaches to strength for a sense of protection, as she grows as a character that attachment becomes a crush if you're nice to her which blossoms if you let it. The Gender preference thing is harder to talk about, since that's not something that always influences character behavior, but In my mind there is an argument for removing it due to the nature of the romance's start and traits.
Jaheira: The romance is born out of despair, loss, and an interesting complex about CHARNAME and her Ward and Watcher relationship to begin with. It's less... "Clingy" than aerie's, meaning she'd be less likely to bend her personal race preferences for romance. She's also a woman of considerable personal strength. I'd hesitate before touching her restrictions, but I could understand arguments for it.
Viconia: I am Absolutely torn on this one... On one hand She is selfish, acts for her own benifit and cares little for anyone else's oppinion, which in my mind would translate to a strong definition of preference in racial romance. But on the other hand she respects strength and cares more about CHARNAME's Bhaalspawn status than anything else about them. It can go either way in my mind.
Anomen: Should only be able to romance Right-hands.
ALL OF THAT SAID! We really shouldn't touch the old characters. If we want new different content we should get new characters added that tailor to our wants.
@TenYaiba Hahaha, Aerie-humour, nice!! XD I agree with her being the easiest of all options to really go for anyone in terms of race, gender and stats (alignment is where you may have problems, hell, she broke up with Haer-Dalis for it :S). That said, it is weird she goes for Haer-Dalis of all people, when she clearly hated Viconia on sight for being a drow. While being the least racially biased, she too holds her prejudices. Imagining her with a half-orc makes me think she'll be like that girlfriend of the ogre that Mazzy fights in the Copper Coronet; not exactly unhappy, but wanting him to be more affectionate towards her. I agree, that Jaheria would be the hardest to convince outside of personal preference. Her identity swirls around the elf-human dynamic (possibly one of the reasons why she thinks balance is so important), so I can't think she'd go for anything apart from human, elf, half-elf. She may be able to relate to the experiences half-orcs, but not enough to overcome initial attraction to races she belongs to. I think Viconia could overcome most racial biases if they had the stats to back it up. Like Jaheria, she could probably relate to a half-orc in terms of being an outsider, and if her backstory is anything to go on, she's willing to sleep with men she doesnt find immediately attractive. I'd say half-elves shouldnt have a chance because of how she taunts Jaheria, but then again, she can have a half-drow child with you, so I dont know what to think :S
While I too am hesitant about changes to old characters, I think altering bits to make them at least as believable as the new ones could do a world of good.
Actually... if you tell viconia to stop being a bitch to her, she kind of acquiesces and Aerie is willing to accept her as an adventuring companion... but that's MOSTLY because CHARNAME does (Edit: accidental caps).
Having Aerie Jaheira and Viconia in party is an absolute Riot.
70 Playthroughs... 75 of them have romance with Aerie. (JK... sort of)
Oh? Do they have different things to say, or do they simply calm down because you've resolved the conflict by choosing one over the other?
Something tells me Aerie, Viconia, Jaheria, Imoen and Minsc are the (semi-)intended party you're meant to go with, because they're so much fun together.
If you pick Aerie as your romance, Viconia has extra teasing lines for Aerie that eventually get's you involved to say the standard, Aerie is right Viconia is wrong, Meh, and Viconia is right Aerie is wrong. Telling Viconia to chill out enough times, If I remember correctly gets them to appear to get along better... then your Rep hits 20 and Viconia leaves in the underdark
Same with Jaheira, except it's less being caustic, as Jaheira harshly demanding Aerie to Grow Up and Aerie being insecure. Eventually you tell Jaheira that she's being an overbearing jerk and that you like Aerie the way she is, and she apologizes to her.
Choosing to side with the other women makes Aerie dejected, and I believe Jaheira and Viconia have a fight, but I don't remember it.
I do love Viconia's taunt to Aerie where she says that now that she doesnt have her wings she may as well go underground and join the drow >:D
The Jaheria/Viconia fight goes something like Viconia insulting Jaheria for being a half-elf, eventually saying things about Khalid too. Having said that, she's less bitchy about it than what Aerie says.
Aerie's comment was out of line when she talked about Khalid, but then again, so is Jaheira trying to change Aerie in her own image. In my mind premeditated manipulation is a greater crime than a desperate lash out in the heat of the moment. She even apologizes about it later.
Aerie: It makes sense to ME, at the very least, that it is removed entirely. She attaches to CHARNAME for rescuing her and taking her under his wi... uh... into the party. It's even feasible in my mind that the gender restriction be lifted, though that's much harder to rationalize. The attachment forged is through traveling with CHARNAME and experiencing the world with them.
I agree with you about the race restriction. I don't recall any reason for Aerie not to accept all of the player races, and in addition to the reasons you mention, her character development is very much about appearances vs inner truth/beauty.
Jaheira: The romance is born out of despair, loss, and an interesting complex about CHARNAME and her Ward and Watcher relationship to begin with. It's less... "Clingy" than aerie's, meaning she'd be less likely to bend her personal race preferences for romance. She's also a woman of considerable personal strength. I'd hesitate before touching her restrictions, but I could understand arguments for it.
Strong themes in Jaheira's character development in BG2 are grief, accepting her own vulnerability (a really tough lesson for Jaheira) and (re-)learning to trust another, as a friend and as a lover. Since the connection to CHARNAME is forged on such deep emotional level, I don't see why it couldn't happen with someone of another race if they're otherwise worthy of her trust.
Viconia: I am Absolutely torn on this one... On one hand She is selfish, acts for her own benifit and cares little for anyone else's oppinion, which in my mind would translate to a strong definition of preference in racial romance. But on the other hand she respects strength and cares more about CHARNAME's Bhaalspawn status than anything else about them. It can go either way in my mind.
If she's fine with a halfling, she should be fine with a gnome or a dwarf That said, I admit, I don't really believe in deep author reasoning behind the halfling thing. I just like to point it out as something that ought to have equal weight as an inclusion, as the exclusion of some other races as romance triggers, when NPC integrity is discussed.
Anyway... I fully agree that Viconia respects strength. A main obstacle in that romance is the way she has been taught to see the male gender, and that stands regardless of CHARNAME's race. I dare to think all above-ground PC races that aren't elves are pretty much the same to Viconia, and all of them have the chance to impress her, so IMO the race restrictions apart from elves aren't needed.
Anomen: Should only be able to romance Right-hands.
Ha. I wonder if I should give Anomen another chance, perhaps with some mod content added in to make him work even slightly better.
A few thoughts about gender restrictions. Due to the writing in Aerie and Viconia romances, I think that they would require a different romance with female CHARNAME. I think Jaheira's romance could possibly work as it is (with the needed cosmetic changes in dialogue) and would IMO be a believable "alternate possibility" for her character development. Similarly, Anomen could work as a bromance as well - I wonder if he'd be less annoying then
Comments
Seriously though, anything 4E doesn't really apply here. Even timeline wise, it takes places well after the Baldur's Gate series. The link to the Order of the Sun Soul gave me an interesting thought, about Rasaad's reactions in the Umar Hills quests.
Anyway, back to topic. No on polyamorous relationships, unless it fits the character(s). In development, though, I think there should be a break at some point.
Ex. In the Haer'Dalis romance mod, HD is perfectly willing to be a fling on the side while you romance someone else. At some point though, even he realizes this is not enough, and looks for commitment.
With everything else going on in the saga, who has time to romance so many people and keep them from killing each other?
Romances: Bicker Bicker Bicker
PC: ....
Irenicus: I will utterly destroy you!
PC: Do it. DO IT NOW! KILL ME!
Good gravy I'm posting on a forum from a PS3.
Furthermore, "popular" doesn't mean everybody on earth except you. You may notice that the list of posters here is quite limited compared to say... the MEME thread. Most people who don't care about the topic at hand simply don't post here, rather than make derisive and opinionated posts that could very well be seen as a thinly veiled attempt to simply decry the subject of discussion.
If you have something to add to our list of features that you want to bring to our attention, we would be delighted to hear your suggestions. Otherwise I'm absolutely certain that the forums offer a thread that appeals to your refined tastes and breathlessly awaits your input.
PC and romanceable NPC continue their adventures, saving Faerun, kicking ass, and taking names.
Technically there's a house quest... but some of the fortresses might not be the best place to raise a child
Ok ok i'm off this thread.
So one other person would rather leave polyamourism out of the game for now (I would think that to be represented properly it might be a mountain of code, for one.)
We've expressed desire to remedy the lack of options for the vertically challenged CHARNAMEs: I wonder if simply removing the race restriction would help fit this, though they tend to be rare, relationships between the Small-races/dwarves (since dwarves aren't Small) and others HAS happened. anyone know if Korgan ever made googly eyes at female evil dwarven CHARNAMEs? Joking aside I agree that this issue should be remedied by inclusion of additional character prospects and the removal of the race restriction (Though I never even knew it existed, to be honest).
NPC-Non-party-member Relationships. Maybe? More interaction with the game world would be welcome as always. It could be an amusing point when a non-party-able NPC gets jealous of your companions for "Bro-ing around too much"/"thinks they're more than friends."
Finally, I don't care if the additional content takes a year, as long as it's up to snuff I can wait.
Any thoughts?
I'm never looking here again.
I think less limitations on races for romances is a good idea overall, as long as it makes sense for the character. One thing I liked about some of the various mods, was they include specific dialogue tailored towards specific races. It increases immersion, honestly. I think Jahiera and Aerie would be more open to love with all the wrong races
I'm not sure of NPC+ non-joinable NPC relationships. They exist (Keldorn, for example) mostly as sidequests. I'm not sure I want to add much to that. However, adding another one or two NPC-NPC romances, as with Haer'Dalis & Aerie, I could enjoy. My last playthrough of BG2, Kelsey romanced Imoen in ToB, and I enjoyed that a lot.
But. BUT. I don't want my BG game turning into Jersey Shore.
@Moira There we go! thank you for Confirming that
Short story from me: either they should do it right and make glaring racial incompatibility something to overcome through dialogue and romance, or they should leave it be and let custom mods deal with it.
I think its very challenging to write this as you're not around a person often enough for them to develop jealousy for your traveling group. Anything more than a fling may be too sudden. And even if it was written in, the top 5 types of non-party character you see in BG2 are tavern owners, merchants who sell weapons, prominent plot figures like Arin Linvail or Elhan, minor plot figures like solaufein or phaere and major plot figures (eg. irenicus or bodhi).
How about if you could (or had to) take your lover out of your party to protect them while you complete a series of quests? Instead of them hating you for neglecting them, how about you go back, talk some more and have different things to say? Its always awkward when you say "I have too many traveling companions" and leave an NPC to stand passively all day. Maybe if they had tasks they were doing it would be more legitimate for you to progressively check-up on them.
I'm all for fluffy and less so romances for all races and genders as long as the writing's good and characters interesting!
@CrazedSlayer I'm kind of on the fence here on the Race restriction, and reading through the various arguments for and against it on this forum... I think that in a few instances the race restriction should be altered based on character... But that requires a lot of character analysis and care to not ruin the vision... Here's my opinion on the alterations.
Aerie: It makes sense to ME, at the very least, that it is removed entirely. She attaches to CHARNAME for rescuing her and taking her under his wi... uh... into the party. It's even feasible in my mind that the gender restriction be lifted, though that's much harder to rationalize. The attachment forged is through traveling with CHARNAME and experiencing the world with them. Another point is that If I'm not mistaken that She will, if otherwise unengaged take Haer-Dalis, A tiefling... of all races. There's not much reason for her to eschew her rescuer just because they're a halfling or dwarf. Even half-orc has an argument as she initially attaches to strength for a sense of protection, as she grows as a character that attachment becomes a crush if you're nice to her which blossoms if you let it. The Gender preference thing is harder to talk about, since that's not something that always influences character behavior, but In my mind there is an argument for removing it due to the nature of the romance's start and traits.
Jaheira: The romance is born out of despair, loss, and an interesting complex about CHARNAME and her Ward and Watcher relationship to begin with. It's less... "Clingy" than aerie's, meaning she'd be less likely to bend her personal race preferences for romance. She's also a woman of considerable personal strength. I'd hesitate before touching her restrictions, but I could understand arguments for it.
Viconia: I am Absolutely torn on this one... On one hand She is selfish, acts for her own benifit and cares little for anyone else's oppinion, which in my mind would translate to a strong definition of preference in racial romance. But on the other hand she respects strength and cares more about CHARNAME's Bhaalspawn status than anything else about them. It can go either way in my mind.
Anomen: Should only be able to romance Right-hands.
ALL OF THAT SAID! We really shouldn't touch the old characters. If we want new different content we should get new characters added that tailor to our wants.
In my opinion.
I agree, that Jaheria would be the hardest to convince outside of personal preference. Her identity swirls around the elf-human dynamic (possibly one of the reasons why she thinks balance is so important), so I can't think she'd go for anything apart from human, elf, half-elf. She may be able to relate to the experiences half-orcs, but not enough to overcome initial attraction to races she belongs to.
I think Viconia could overcome most racial biases if they had the stats to back it up. Like Jaheria, she could probably relate to a half-orc in terms of being an outsider, and if her backstory is anything to go on, she's willing to sleep with men she doesnt find immediately attractive. I'd say half-elves shouldnt have a chance because of how she taunts Jaheria, but then again, she can have a half-drow child with you, so I dont know what to think :S
While I too am hesitant about changes to old characters, I think altering bits to make them at least as believable as the new ones could do a world of good.
Having Aerie Jaheira and Viconia in party is an absolute Riot.
70 Playthroughs... 75 of them have romance with Aerie. (JK... sort of)
Something tells me Aerie, Viconia, Jaheria, Imoen and Minsc are the (semi-)intended party you're meant to go with, because they're so much fun together.
If you pick Aerie as your romance, Viconia has extra teasing lines for Aerie that eventually get's you involved to say the standard, Aerie is right Viconia is wrong, Meh, and Viconia is right Aerie is wrong. Telling Viconia to chill out enough times, If I remember correctly gets them to appear to get along better... then your Rep hits 20 and Viconia leaves in the underdark
Same with Jaheira, except it's less being caustic, as Jaheira harshly demanding Aerie to Grow Up and Aerie being insecure. Eventually you tell Jaheira that she's being an overbearing jerk and that you like Aerie the way she is, and she apologizes to her.
Choosing to side with the other women makes Aerie dejected, and I believe Jaheira and Viconia have a fight, but I don't remember it.
The Jaheria/Viconia fight goes something like Viconia insulting Jaheria for being a half-elf, eventually saying things about Khalid too. Having said that, she's less bitchy about it than what Aerie says.
Anyway... I fully agree that Viconia respects strength. A main obstacle in that romance is the way she has been taught to see the male gender, and that stands regardless of CHARNAME's race. I dare to think all above-ground PC races that aren't elves are pretty much the same to Viconia, and all of them have the chance to impress her, so IMO the race restrictions apart from elves aren't needed. Ha. I wonder if I should give Anomen another chance, perhaps with some mod content added in to make him work even slightly better.
A few thoughts about gender restrictions. Due to the writing in Aerie and Viconia romances, I think that they would require a different romance with female CHARNAME. I think Jaheira's romance could possibly work as it is (with the needed cosmetic changes in dialogue) and would IMO be a believable "alternate possibility" for her character development. Similarly, Anomen could work as a bromance as well - I wonder if he'd be less annoying then