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[MOD] -Might and Guile- a tweak mod and kit pack for warriors and rogues.

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Comments

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,383
    edited March 20
    kjeron wrote: »
    Does IWDEE 2.5.17 lack any opcodes that are in BG2EE 2.5.16? (What I coded the bards on)
    Not as far as I know.
    If it is the issue, I suspect that any invalid opcode is caused by an error/typo.

    Also, it only scans memorized spells, not passive/permanent effects or subspells.

    Do you think it's possible a memorized spell could simply 'have too much going on' and cause this crash? In my test the Blade had very few things memorized:
    0d5w7m6btyvr.png

    Swashbuckling just applies a few AC/thac0 adjustments, BD21A only has a 177 effect applying a separate spell repeatedly via 232, B4116 just uses opcode 148 to cast Sleep. The stand-out is d5prepb, which doesn't have any invalid opcodes, but it does have ~275 effects. (A ton of opcode 172 effects to remove all possible spell clones from the innate abilities bar.)

    I just shifted those ~271 opcode 172 effects into a subspell and... now I cannot reproduce the crash. Think it's fixed?

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,383
    edited March 17
    Assuming that is indeed fixed, then this cake is just about cooked. I was going to add a couple true 2E-style Demibard kits (halfling Whistler and Dwarven Chanter) but that will take longer and I think I might put them on the back burner. In which case the only remaining things on my to-do list are: 1) bard-ify the Bladesinger, and 2) give more feats to enemy warriors and rogues.

    So question for players: how brutal should I be with feats for enemies? Right now I'm thinking:

    Enemy fighters get two feats: one fighting posture (knockback, disarm, parry slashing, parry piercing, or parry blunt) plus one of the following:
    - +5% crit chance
    - +10% damage resistance
    - extra save to avoid poison
    - extra save to avoid sleep/hold/stun

    Enemy thieves get three feats: dirty fighting, plus one of the following:
    - +1 AC bonus
    - +1 thac0 bonus
    - +1 saving throws bonus
    ...plus one of the following:
    - Luck bonus
    - extra save to avoid charm/confusion/feeblemind/maze
    - deflect one missile per round

    Right now warriors and rogues only have one feat, but it actually is noticeable in-game and really does add a bit of challenge. Going up to two/three feats will make it that much more fun. :naughty:

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,066
    I just shifted those ~271 opcode 172 effects into a subspell and... now I cannot reproduce the crash. Think it's fixed?
    Yep - it crashes on the 256th effect. Stupid heal on rest - abilities can have up to 65535 effect, or at least 32767.

  • GawainBSGawainBS Member Posts: 511
    Could you elaborate on the Rogue Weapon Focus, please?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,383
    edited March 18
    GawainBS wrote: »
    Could you elaborate on the Rogue Weapon Focus, please?

    For some reason I cannot fathom, one night when I wasn't sleeping, I decided to adapt the entire Scales of Balance 'proficiencies by dialogue' system and move it into Might & Guile. It... was not very easy. :lol: (I also, after adapting MnG 5E casting to FnP for clerics, decided to bring that version back to MnG to make the Loresinger into a spontaneous-casting, song-singing cleric/thief... I'm a glutton for punishment. :lol: )

    So Weapon Focus, which is available at 9th level,* is very simple: it lets you advance one weapon proficiency by one point, potentially going one point further than your class normally allows. So thieves can become specialized in one weapon, rangers and swashbucklers can reach mastery, etc.

    For Bladesingers, I'm thinking of actually letting them have an extra 1/2 APR with Mastery, instead of GM. Or alternatively, just patch the Weapon Focus spell to set proficiency to GM, for Bladesingers only. This would act as their 'chosen weapon' so it would be nice for them to have extra APR with it.

    * The feat system will now use @kjeron's UI system, instead of a dialogue. It is better in many ways... but dialogues are also useful in their own ways. With dialogues, it is quite easy to condition feats on arbitrary prerequisites. Say, you can only make Fire Traps if you already know how to make plain Dart Traps and you've mastered Basic Alchemy. Or, you can only learn to Use Magical Devices if you are 7th level and have 15+ Intelligence. Etc.

    It is much harder to do that kind of thing now. I could theoretically make one feat conditional on already having another one (say, you can only learn Missile Snaring if you already know Dodge)... but the method by which I could do that could create compatibility issues - specifically, with kjeron's Dual Into Kits mod. Maybe others. Also possibly compatibility issues with dual-classing in general, because for the hundredth time, dual classing is the worst.

    So, the feat system is now simplified. There are normal feats, which are available any time, and there are advanced feats, which are only available if you are 9th level or higher. The way this works in the UI is:
    - Warrior feats and miscellaneous/mechanical rogue feats show up under "1st-level spells"
    - Combat and magical rogue feats show up under "2nd-level spells"
    - Archery feats and bard songs show up under "3rd-level spells"
    - Advanced feats show up under "4th-level spells"

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,737
    @subtledoctor Regarding giving more feats to enemies. Note that some of us don't use SCS, so please keep it within reasonable difficulty for a vanilla curve.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,383
    edited March 18
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @subtledoctor Regarding giving more feats to enemies. Note that some of us don't use SCS, so please keep it within reasonable difficulty for a vanilla curve.

    It's not too crazy - not meant as a difficulty mod. Just meant to balance (some of) the new abilities available to the player. When an ogre hits you and knocks you back 10 feet, it's surprising and gives a sense of strength... but it isn't going to make or break the outcome of the battle.

    This is just meant to add a pinch of spice to some of the weaker and more boring enemies - fighters and thieves. Monsters and casters are still going to be bigger threats, by a country mile.

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
    ThacoBell
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,383
    edited March 18
    I feel like this needs a bunch of testing before issuing a proper release. Anyone want to play around with the latest build?

    EDIT - actually I'll just post another beta build publicly. Should be up soon.

    Might try to update a couple other things as well for the final release.

    1) Might take another stab at revising the Monk Fist component.

    2) With this "weapon of choice" method working for the Bladesinger, might use it for the (ancient) Kensai Revision as well, and get rid of all those extra kits.

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,383
    Okay the new beta is up here.

    I'm going to test a lot this myself before putting on the finishing touches and calling it v4, but if anyone wants to play and test along with me, here it is. What is different:

    - Feats. Almost everything related to feats is newer and awesomer.

    - New bards. Tuned up, and should actually be working well now. And there's a Hexblade. And a Bladesinger. And a Loresinger. Lots of awesome here as well.

    rapsam2003GusindaThacoBell
  • Snatch_a_kissSnatch_a_kiss Member Posts: 32
    edited March 19
    IWD EE 2.5.17.0 clean -Might & Guile 3.9.2 beta
    My WeiDu:
    // Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
    // The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
    // ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #200 // Feat System: 3.9.2
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #230 // Revised Archery: 3.9.2
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #240 // Improved Rangers: 3.9.2
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #320 // Add the Marksman (fighter kit): 3.9.2
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #322 // Add the Elven Archer (ranger kit): 3.9.2
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #410 // Add the Sniper (thief kit): 3.9.2
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #210 // Bard Overhaul: Multiclass Bards: 3.9.2

    Create new party. The fighter dwarf, a barbarian half orc, ranger elf, halfling thief, the human bard(mage-thief), half-elf skald (fighter-mage). Fighter, barbarian, ranger, thief can choose feat, there are icons of choice. But after selecting a feat, a window appears with a selection and it is empty, no feat is specified, the spell book also is empty. I tried to add levels and rest- nothing has changed.
    Ranger can cast so many spells, at level 30 18 wisdom 5-5-5-5-3-1 spell slots.

    Bards use the wizard's spell system, not the sorcerer's, as in the previous version. Also added levels, use wizard spell progression, i.e. at max level can use 8 and 9 spell levels. And can not choose any "feat", there is no innate ability. Also do not get automatic spells in spell book.

    Post edited by Snatch_a_kiss on
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,383
    So, I apoplogize for my sleep-deprived state. I set up the new feat system... but then I forgot to, you know, assign any feats to any kits. :lol: (For the record, this is controlled by /might_and_guile/feats/d5flstf.2da.) I'll set them up and re-upload later today.
    IWD EE 2.5.17.0 clean -Might & Guile 3.9.2 beta
    My WeiDu:Bards use the wizard's spell system, not the sorcerer's, as in the previous version. Also added levels, use wizard spell progression, i.e. at max level can use 8 and 9 spell levels. And can not choose any "feat", there is no innate ability. Also do not get automatic spells in spell book.

    Sounds like you did not use the "Initialize Bardic Spellcasting" innate ability. You should do that as soon as you begin playing with the character. I'll see if there is anything I can do to make this more obvious/necessary.

  • Snatch_a_kissSnatch_a_kiss Member Posts: 32
    edited March 19
    Sounds like you did not use the "Initialize Bardic Spellcasting" innate ability. You should do that as soon as you begin playing with the character. I'll see if there is anything I can do to make this more obvious/necessary.
    Yeah, I didn't "Initialize Bardic Spellcasting", because there's nothing innate ability. The button is not active.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,383
    edited March 19
    Something weird is going on with the QD_Multi function. I'm looking into it now.

    EDIT - okay, looks like the Feats component completely screws up the QD_Multi function for the Revised Bards component. I cannot fathom why, but at least I know what to look at.

    Meantime, since the feats aren't assigned anyway :lol: you can try NOT installing the feats, and only use the Bard Overhaul. (The 'trueclass' bard uses the new feat system to learn more songs in this setup, and that is working, so it will give you a feel for how the overall feat system will work... later tonight :wink: )

    EDIT - if anyone does want to mess around with d5flstf.2da to give feats to warriors/thieves, here is the key:
    feat list

    ra1 = stealth
    ra2 = thieving
    ra3 = detection
    ra4 = lore
    ra5 = luck
    ra9 = tracking
    rb1 = dart trap
    rb3 = fire trap
    rb4 = web trap
    rb5 = poison trap
    rc0 = choose alchemy
    rc1 = basic alchemy
    rc2 = adv. alchemy
    rc3 = assassin poison
    rc4 = hunter poison
    rc6 = flaming sword
    rc7 = transformation
    rd0 = dodge
    rd1 = dodge
    rd3 = evasion
    rd4 = missile snaring
    rd5 = saves
    rd6 = mental saves
    rd7 = physical saves
    rd8 = slippery mind
    re0 = thac0
    re1 = thac0
    re3 = accuracy
    re5 = backstab
    re6 = crit
    re8 = swash
    re9 = new prof
    rg3 = blind
    rg4 = disrupt
    rg5 = dirty
    rh1 = grease
    rh2 = smoke
    rh4 = UMD
    rh5 = shadow
    rh6 = illusion
    wa2 = off tactics
    wa3 = def tactics
    wb1 = aggressive
    wb2 = disarming
    wb3 = parry slashing
    wb4 = parry piercing
    wb5 = parry blunt
    wc1 = stride
    wc2 = health
    wc3 = toughness
    wc5 = fortitude
    wc6 = determination
    csa = trip shot
    csb = pin shot
    csc = cripple shot
    csd = disarm shot
    cse = blind shot
    csf = hammer shot
    csg = stun shot
    csh = entangle shot
    csi = sleep shot
    csj = faerie fire shot
    bd1 = luck song
    bd2 = courage song
    bd3 = power song
    bd5 = RI song
    bd6 = bless song
    bd7 = NPP song
    bd8 = mind shield song
    bd9 = death ward song
    bd20 = interference song
    bd21 = intimidate song
    bd22 = curse song
    bd23 = confuse song
    bd24 = hold undead song
    bd25 = entangle song
    bd41 = blur song
    bd42 = mind blank song
    bd43 = MGOI song
    bd46 = fear song
    bd47 = slow song
    bd48 = true sight song
    bd49 = hex song

    Just don't mix the feats component and bards component until I fix the issue.

    EDIT 2 - figured it out! MAN, that was annoying. Turns out the QD_Multi function has a pretty sever sensitivity to the number of columns in a CLAB table. I can probably adjust it to make it more robust. But in the meantime I can easily adjust one lone APPEND command to remove an errant "**** " entry.

    I've also disabled spellcasting for bards until you use the "Initialize Bardic Spellcasting" button, to help induce players to get it started.

    Now I just need to assign the appropriate feats to ~35 kits, and maybe finesse the way feats appear in the feat selection screen. (IWDEE with its non-scrollable sequencer selection screens is really annoying me.)

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,383
    edited March 20
    Okay a new build is up. Everything mentioned in the last couple posts should be fixed.

    StummvonBordwehrThacoBell
  • Snatch_a_kissSnatch_a_kiss Member Posts: 32
    edited March 20
    IWD EE 2.5.17.0 clean -Might & Guile 3.9.3
    The same components:
    // Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
    // The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
    // ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #200 // Feat System: 3.9.3
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #230 // Revised Archery: 3.9.3
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #240 // Improved Rangers: 3.9.3
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #320 // Add the Marksman (fighter kit): 3.9.3
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #322 // Add the Elven Archer (ranger kit): 3.9.3
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #410 // Add the Sniper (thief kit): 3.9.3
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #210 // Bard Overhaul: Multiclass Bards: 3.9.3
    Сreated such a same party. The fighter dwarf, a barbarian half orc, ranger elf, halfling thief, the human bard(mage-thief), half-elf skald (fighter-mage).

    A few times I couldn't select a feat, there was a selection screen, but can't select a feat, nothing happened, the cell didn't fill. So on all characters. Helped restart the game.

    If you choose the dodge bonus and melee attack bonus, you can use each time after the rest, getting each time +1. Tested with Ranger (dodge) and bard (melee attack bonus) activated through a spell cast.

    The thief chose bonuses for thieves abilities(stealth bonus, thief bonus), some skills (dart Trap, basic alchemy) nothing has changed in the statistics and the thief could not use these skills, also after rest. The fighter and the barbarian have chosen bonuses to defense (dodge) and some skills (combat posture (Aggressive)), nothing has changed in the statistics, abilities also cannot be used, the saving throws bonus is got by innate ability, but you can also use them after every rest, and get +2 every time.
    The fighter and thief 2 times can choose the dodge.
    s8grpmj0iz7d.png
    ncyrr2w3npbm.png
    Ranger also can cast so many spells, at level 30 18 wisdom 5-5-5-5-3-1 spell slots.

    Bard got the feat and learned a few additional "songs", also learned basic alchemy, but after use it, nothing happens. Songs can sing.
    Skald didn't get any feat, so he didn't learn anything. Only basic Inspiration: Power and Aura of Fear.

    Post edited by Snatch_a_kiss on
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,383
    Ranger also can cast so many spells, at level 30 18 wisdom 5-5-5-5-3-1 spell slots.

    You've mentioned this a couple times, but this mod doesn't alter any spell tables, at all. That is pure unmodded IWD behavior.

  • Snatch_a_kissSnatch_a_kiss Member Posts: 32
    edited March 20
    You've mentioned this a couple times, but this mod doesn't alter any spell tables, at all. That is pure unmodded IWD behavior.
    In BG EE ranger's have 3-3-3 spells slots, and I thought it was a mistake because of the "improved rangers".

    Archer has learned CALLED SHOTS trip, but can not use it, because it does not appear in the innate abilities. Even after rest. Other shots can be used. Learned Toughness, can be used also again after rest.
    Sniper use learn feat, there is animation, but nothing happens.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,383
    Meantime, in trying to test, I have discovered a REALLY goddamn annoying bug in IWDEE 2.5.17. It's robbing me of the ONE thing I don't have to spare: time. Come on Beamdog, get your act together. :rage:

  • LamiarLamiar Member Posts: 136
    edited March 20
    @subtledoctor it's is bit hard to test latest mod combination version(s) by this reason https://github.com/UnearthedArcana/Might_and_Guile/issues/13 . (This issue was opened by me, i'm probably should recreate login here to match nickname for better feelings.) In short, we need SR to install FnP (at least latest released/stable version), but latest MnG doesn't appear to work together with FnP, which is kind of... unsolvable puzzle. :) There was exact reason why i'm currently skip this two great mods in current run... (already discussed in SoB.)

    ADD: Ah, forget about main note... i'm really miss some mod version list which is known to work. Damn, will go to write some mod automation install. Doing manually or with current tools looks bit annoying. :)

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,383
    If you want to really minimize bugs, you should be using SR 4b16 and FnP 0.75.26 and MnG 3.8.17 (in that order).

  • LamiarLamiar Member Posts: 136
    If you want to really minimize bugs, you should be using SR 4b16 and FnP 0.75.26 and MnG 3.8.17 (in that order).

    Thanks, will try. I can fix bugs, but only if mods get installed / understand what happens, but i completely can't understand issues with latest versions.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,383
    Lamiar wrote: »
    i completely can't understand issues with latest versions.

    Well, the ones I mentioned are the latest stable versions. More recent versions exist, but are literally works in progress.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,383
    Okay, the internal builds are starting to look real good. Fixed just about every bug mentioned so far, and doing a bunch of streamlining for ease of installation, and adding a few new features.

    But, question: how attached is everybody to the Halfling Slinger ranger kit? Because it occurs to me... why is that a ranger kit??? I guess it was one of the first kits I ever made, and back in the 1.3 days we couldn't do as much. But now I can make it a fighter/thief kit. Halflings can already by fighter/thieves, and it would be a perfect fit. Certainly better than shoehorning it into the Ranger class...

    Any objections to my changing the Slinger into a fighter/thief kit?

    ThacoBellStummvonBordwehr
  • GawainBSGawainBS Member Posts: 511
    Nope. Makes more sense. Could you also elaborate on the Weapon Focus feat, please?

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,737
    Oh, I always already thought the Halfling Slinger WAS a fighter/thief kit. Explains why I could never find it...

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,383
    GawainBS wrote: »
    Could you also elaborate on the Weapon Focus feat, please?
    Already did :wink:

    "So Weapon Focus, which is available at 9th level,* is very simple: it lets you advance one weapon proficiency by one point, potentially going one point further than your class normally allows. So thieves can become specialized in one weapon, rangers and swashbucklers can reach mastery, etc."

    For Bladesingers, and possibly Kensai, you willget an extra 1/2 APR with your focus weapon.

  • GawainBSGawainBS Member Posts: 511
    edited March 21
    Sorry, missed it. Cool, though! I assume this stacks with SoB?

  • MythalarMythalar Member Posts: 68
    But, question: how attached is everybody to the Halfling Slinger ranger kit? Because it occurs to me... why is that a ranger kit??? I guess it was one of the first kits I ever made, and back in the 1.3 days we couldn't do as much. But now I can make it a fighter/thief kit. Halflings can already by fighter/thieves, and it would be a perfect fit. Certainly better than shoehorning it into the Ranger class...

    Any objections to my changing the Slinger into a fighter/thief kit?

    IMO i think it to be a fighter kit, even if a ranged one. So i guesse F/T is a good call for a Halfling.

    And i strongly agree with the APR bonus for at least Bladesinger with Weapon focus: they are the actual epitome of elven mastery of swordsmanship after all...
    Perhaps just an Advanced feat to illustrate the training required to offset their initial malus? (if it is not already that way, i confess i'll only try it tomorrow :p )

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,383
    Mythalar wrote: »
    And i strongly agree with the APR bonus for at least Bladesinger with Weapon focus: they are the actual epitome of elven mastery of swordsmanship after all...
    Perhaps just an Advanced feat to illustrate the training required to offset their initial malus?

    The extra APR is to offset the fact that, as a multiclass, they are limited to specialization. Whereas a F->M dual can get GM. This way, Bladesingers can get Mastery + extra APR, sot it's a bit more even. (Remember too that these Bladesingers, being bards, are limited to 7th-level spells. They are a bit more fighter than mage.)
    Mythalar wrote: »
    And (if it is not already that way, i confess i'll only try it tomorrow :p )

    Don't download until I say so in this thread. I'll have a new build up - might not be tomorrow, but it will be soon.

  • MythalarMythalar Member Posts: 68
    Don't download until I say so in this thread. I'll have a new build up - might not be tomorrow, but it will be soon.

    I stand ready!
    And yes bladesingers are limited on the spell side but with their shiny new aura they should be cool.
    Now I want a bladesinger Xan, like right now, because I want to see him shouting "WE ARE ALL DOOMED" and throwing himself in a bunch of gnolls with his shiny sword.

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