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[MOD] -Might and Guile- a tweak mod and kit pack for warriors and rogues.

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Comments

  • d2freakd2freak Member Posts: 20
    edited March 2019
    @subtledoctor

    I have to say, I just tried the new feat system, and I prefer the old system of the text if I'm to be honest. It meshes more with the game. The spellbook approach just feels so hackish. I mean you "memorize" the feats and such. Also I'm kind of a casual player and it's a bit confusing to me what the "spell levels" are for in the feat selection.

    The text way also meshes more with how other mods does stuff like this.

    Hope I don't come off as negative. Love your mod.

    Edit: Okay and it also doesn't work at all with Lefreut's UI (https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/61571/mod-lefreuts-enhanced-ui-for-bg1ee-sod-bg2ee-and-eet/p1)

    There are 2 problems. One is that no feats will show up at all in his reskinned version of the window you use. And the second is that he allows to cancel that window, removing the special ability button without anything being learned.

    Post edited by d2freak on
    Ardul
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,442
    edited March 2019
    It will be compatible with anything that @kjeron's spell-learning UI is compatible with. I don't know what changes are made by Lefreut's UI - I don't fully know how compatible such UI overhauls are in general. I would suggest that, since the spell-learning UI function patches UI.menu, and the UI overhaul might be overwriting it, you should try to install such UI mods before this. (Also before TnB's multiclass sorcerers, and before the Shadow Magic mod, since they both use the spell-learning function as well.)

    Keep in mind, as of v3.9.3, this version of the feat system doesn't work yet. Look for a beta build of v4 soon.

    EDIT - the function uses the Spell Sequencerr UI, so if you can use the Spell Sequencer/Trigger spells with that UI mod, you should be able to use this as well. So I think it has to be compatible... but, as always, mods that just dump a bunch of stuff into /override and overwrite whatever's there should be installed earliest in the order.

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,442
    d2freak wrote: »
    I have to say, I just tried the new feat system, and I prefer the old system of the text if I'm to be honest. It meshes more with the game. Also I'm kind of a casual player and it's a bit confusing to me what the "spell levels" are for in the feat selection.

    Hope I don't come off as negative. Love your mod.

    No worries, I appreciate all feedback! Part of the reasoning behiond thsi is that I've gotten so much feedback criticizing the feats-by-dialogue system, saying it doesn't mesh well with other parts of the game like HLAs and spell-learning. :lol:

    As for spell levels: the way things are going, all feats will appear as "1st-level" spells, i.e. they will all appear right in front of you as soon as you use the ability. So, pretty easy. The only exceptions will be advanced feats that you cannot obtain until level 9 - those will appear under 2nd-level spells.

    That is on BGEE/SoD/BG2EE. Unfortunaetly the IWDEE UI does not have scroll bars in the sequencer spell selection screens, so I have to split up the feats among spell levels 1 through 3. (And advanced feats are under spell level 4.) In that game you will just click around and explore to see all available feats. Fingers crossed, this will be unnecessary after the 2.6 patch drops.

  • IcezeraIcezera Member Posts: 20
    edited March 2019
    Can't wait for version 4! From your previous comment, I take it that 3.9.3 isn't usable because the feat system doesn't work?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,442
    Icezera wrote: »
    Can't wait for version 4! From your previous comment, I take it that 3.9.3 isn't usable because the feat system doesn't work?

    Yeah. I've got everything working locally except Precise Strike and Group Tactics. As soon as I get them working I'll upload a new beta.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,442
    edited March 2019
    I can't help myself making more stuff as I troubleshoot what already exists. Been working on the fighter "Group Tactics" feat. Basic idea is, unlike the various fighter kits who devote attention to special techniques and abilities, a trueclass fighter masters the art of combat, writ large. With experience, a pure fighter can become something like an officer in the military: using his combat experience to direct those around him and make them better. So far there I've had two manifestations: Formation, which provides nearby allies with a +1/+2 AC bonus (depending on level), and Discipline, which provides nearby allies with a +1/+2 thac0 bonus.

    I'm working on adding a third area of tactical mastery: Efficiency. This will provide nearby allies with a +2/+3 bonus to weapon speed, and an +1/+2 bonus to spellcasting speed. So this works out to being something like an initiative bonus. The idea is, even the most powerful archmage in Faerun isn't necessarily skilled in combat. But if that archmage trains and fights with a gifted military officer, they will be able to keep their cool and cast spells more efficiently and effectively in the thick of battle.

    As I've said many times, part of the point of the feat system is to make bare-bones trueclass fighters and thieves interesting and valuable. I think, in high-level play, this ability could give fighters a really unique strength: at a time when spellcasters reign supreme, the fighter can make those spellcasters better at what they already do best.

    Next step is to figure out how to make this work for enemies. :naughty:

    ThacoBellRaduziel
  • GawainBSGawainBS Member Posts: 512
    The increase in spellcasting speed is very tempting. Good idea.

    Regarding F/M Bards: will they be able to use Bard-only items?

  • ArdulArdul Member Posts: 210
    I think casting speed is too strong and thematically inappropriate. Only two other items in the game gives casting speed - one of them being the robe of Vecna. I would think it strange if fighters can apply half the benefit passively to allied casters.

    AC, THAC0, saves, damage, weapon speed (maybe even half apr later on?) are good candidates though, in my opinion.

    ThacoBell
  • LamiarLamiar Member Posts: 136
    edited March 2019
    Hello.

    I'm playing with EET install, found few minor issues:
    1. Spellfilcher's silence holds invalid strref for message "Silenced". I dunno why, but best idea what is messed by EET or other mod (but should not) this happens because spell not cloned and patched, but copied.
    2. Spellfilcher's silence affect everyone (party members), not only hostile actors, - not sure if it was intended, because description effectively say about enemies. (NOT A BUG, see edit below)

    For self will just copy original spell and patch it for intended differences (saving throws probably different).

    EDIT: Well, i'm get messed with Silence and Silence 15" Radius spell. So, spellfilcher's version uses proper projectile exactly like 15" radius spell. So, personally, just edited strref and fine.

    Post edited by Lamiar on
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,442
    edited March 2019
    OKAY!

    I finally got the tactics and postures working. So I'm releasing a new beta. I'm calling v4 of the mod since it makes numerous structural changes:
    - The Feats component (#200) is installed first.
    - The Revised Archery component is now DESIGNATED #205, installed just after the feats. This automatically installs the Marksman, Elven Archer, Halfling Slinger, and Sniper kits.
    - The Bard Overhaul (#210) is installed after that.
    - The Revised Multiclassing and Multiclass Kits component, formerly #500 and then 100, is now DESIGNATED #220.
    - The Revised Stalker component, formerly #225, is now DESIGNATED #230.
    - The new Improved Rangers component is DESIGNATED #240. Among other things, it now allows all ranger kits to be any alignment and prevents them from falling due to rep loss (except the Trueclass ranger).
    - The Quickstride component, formerly #220, is now DESIGNATED #245.

    By the way, there is now a settings file. In it, you can now specify what the movement speed bonus for Quickstride should be. (For convenience, it defaults to +4, which matches the Item Revisions Boots Of Speed.)

    I want to test this a bit, make sure no other bugs shake out. And I have a few more things to do for a proper 4.0 release:
    - Revised Kensai component to use the Weapon Focus feat to choose a Weapon of Choice
    - I think I have a way to improve the Revised Monk Fists component
    - The Halfling Slinger will become a fighter/thief kit
    - Might add some Demibard kits

    But first I need to go tune up Faiths & Powers.

    Cheers!

    ThacoBellGusinda
  • Snatch_a_kissSnatch_a_kiss Member Posts: 32
    edited March 2019
    IWD EE.
    Installation error.
    The Feats component:
    jn9x49rl7142.png
    The Bard Overhaul:
    6hcmiyu74hm2.png

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,442
    IWD EE.
    Installation error.
    The Feats component

    Whoops! See, structural changes are annoying. Fixed in 4b2.

    As for the Bards component, I was having similar problems in testing, it took me a while to figure it out. But finally pinned it down to a mod installed earlier that uses an outdated version of the QD_Multi function.

    What other mods do you have installed that add multiclass kits? If you post the contents of your kitlist.2da file, we can probably figure it out pretty easily.

  • Snatch_a_kissSnatch_a_kiss Member Posts: 32
    edited March 2019
    Clean install, specially reinstalled the game. From mods installed only the new DOF and LavaIt-IWD.
    Thanks, feats component and archery was installed, I'll play a little, and I can check it out.
    Bards component and multiclass kits doesn't want to.

    Rogue 3 times chose the bonus to Ranged Accuracy - got +3 to accuracy and +3 to damage, in the description of the bonus in the inventory says "modifier protection from arrows". :o
    2 times chose bonus to Combat Training - got +2 to accuracy.
    Precise Strike i could choose 4 times, but effective only 1.

    Fighter can not learn Toughness, Health Conditioning.
    Ranger learn few times Health Conditioning, one time Dodge, one time Precise Strike, but can not learn Toughness.
    Barbarian learn one time Dodge, one time Precise Strike, three time Ranged Accuracy, but none Health Conditioning and Combat Training.
    Was that intended?

    Post edited by Snatch_a_kiss on
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,442
    Ah, it's probably DOF - it installs multiclass kits.

    @Snatch_a_kiss if an when you feel like playing around with your installation more, grab the attached file, unzip it, and drop it into /might_and_guile/lib/, overwriting the version already there. Then see if the Bards component will install over DOF. If that works, uninstall everything and drop this same file into the DOF mod wherever it stores it (probably a /lib/ folder) and then see if DOF installs. If that works then I'll recommend that @Raduziel update DOF to this version of QD_Multi.

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    Wait, I'm lost about what is going on. What is the issue with DoF?

    In my last install (yesterday) all the MC kits were working fine. Did something misbehave?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,442
    edited March 2019
    Raduziel wrote: »
    Wait, I'm lost about what is going on. What is the issue with DoF?

    In my last install (yesterday) all the MC kits were working fine. Did something misbehave?

    I'm still investigating it. It's been extremely hard to pin down. I think what is happening is:

    - The old version of QD_Multi (0.1-0.2, I think) kept a bunch of template files like "MC_QD_AP.EFF" in a subdirectory. It copied them from there and renamed/patched them according to whatever kit ability was being processed at any given time.

    - With QD_Multi 0.3, @Aquadrizzt stopped using the subdirectory, and just created all necessary template file on the fly with Weidu's CREATE function. This mean the whole multiclass kit function can be distributed in a single .tpa file, which is great. However, in some mods (including a couple of mine), the included FJ_SPL_ITM_REINDEX function crapped out and causes install errors. So I, and I suspect you, stayed with version 0.2.

    - We tracked down the FJ_SPL_ITM_REINDEX problem and I made a fork of the QD_Multi function, calling it 0.4. This worked a peach on clean installs, but I began to randomly see the exact error @Snatch_a_kiss just reported. My working hypothesis is that the earlier mod with the 0.2 function installs the marker files to show the game that the QD_Multi function has been used and is ready to be used by future multiclass kit mods. But it doesn't copy the template files into /override, it keeps them in their subdirectory. When a later mod comes along and uses the 0.3/0.4 version, it sees those marker files and says "great, all the QD_Multi files are in place, I can proceed." But when it can't find QD_MC_AP.EFF in /override, it fails the install.

    tl;dr: The earlier mod with the outdated version of QD_Multi prevents later mods with newer versions from installing.

    SO, I just created an updated version, which I'm calling 0.5, which should fix all of those problems. It needs a bit of testing of course, to confirm that. But if it works, then we should all upgrade to this new version.

    Raduziel
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    @subtledoctor I'll certainly give it a shot.

    Good job, by the way. I've being using 0.2 for the exact reason you pointed out.

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    edited March 2019
    Tests were good - file uploaded for the next release.

    Edit: Let me say again: thanks, doc. And good job dealing with it!

    subtledoctor
  • southfla79southfla79 Member Posts: 194
    BG2EE v2.5 using latest version on github and no other mods. Bardic Auras do not have a description either when choosing them as feats or right clicking them on the innate tool bar.

    May have missed a post, but do the new "bards" select new spells upon level up or do they just get added to the spellbook?

  • IcezeraIcezera Member Posts: 20
    edited March 2019
    Hmmm can't seem to get the feat system to work. Granted I'm running a heavily modded game, but when I have Khalid use the feat system innate ability, the spell select UI comes up but the entire screen is sorta grayed out and I don't see any feat to choose and I can't click on anything.

    Here is a screenshot.

    Example

    Also seems like a previous poster stumbled on this issue and am guessing it's because we both have lefreut's ui (SOD).
    Any plans for compatibility or should I just go ahead and reinstall without the ui? Is it ok to modify the feedback box only then since that's what I really liked.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,442
    Icezera wrote: »
    seems like a previous poster stumbled on this issue and am guessing it's because we both have lefreut's ui (SOD).
    Any plans for compatibility or should I just go ahead and reinstall without the ui? Is it ok to modify the feedback box only then since that's what I really liked.

    I really don't know. I'm not that familiar with how such UI mods work. If the UI mod overwrites files that MnG needs, then there's nothing I can do on my end.

    As I say, my understanding of the feat system is that it uses the same UI elements as the Spell Sequencer spell, so if you can cast Spell Sequencer, you should be able to use this. (I guess? @kjeron would know better than me.)

    Of course it needs to add some stuff to UI.menu to make use of the Sequencer screens, so if that UI mod overwrites UI.menu, and you install it after MnG, then it will break MnG. ( @lefreut would know better than me.)

    If all that conjecture is correct, then the simple solution would be to install the UI mod first.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,442
    southfla79 wrote: »
    May have missed a post, but do the new "bards" select new spells upon level up or do they just get added to the spellbook?

    You learn spells like a wizard, from scrolls.

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,119
    Icezera wrote: »
    Also seems like a previous poster stumbled on this issue and am guessing it's because we both have lefreut's ui (SOD).
    Any plans for compatibility or should I just go ahead and reinstall without the ui? Is it ok to modify the feedback box only then since that's what I really liked.
    Lefreut's UI mod completely overwrites UI.menu.
    Have you tried installing Lefreut's UI first, then MnG?

  • IcezeraIcezera Member Posts: 20
    I'll try that but I was hoping that the dialogue version of the feat system might be coming back as an option in the install. I liked the dialogue system

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,442
    edited March 2019
    Icezera wrote: »
    I'll try that but I was hoping that the dialogue version of the feat system might be coming back as an option in the install. I liked the dialogue system

    Assuming all the kinks get ironed out (really don't know what's wrong with Precise Strike) I'm unlikely to go back to a dialogue-based system. Pictures will suffice to explain why.

    Before, if I wanted to add a feat, I had to make 4+ edits in multiple places in all of these files:
    0al9ndm9efov.png

    Text needs to be appended in two different areas of the file, there are tra references that have to be right, there a re GOTO references that have to be right and have to have the right prefix and there's no indication you missed something until you actually try to compile the dialogue.

    Now, if I want to add a feat, I just paste a line into a single .2da file and tick a few 0s to 1s:
    n4gobabcrz3m.png

    Dialogues have their advantages:
    - Easier to make availability of a feat dependent on a stat or level or knowing another feat
    - Easier to control how many times any given kit can choose a feat

    But the difference in terms of maintenance is just night and day. I mean, this is how good it is: with kjeron's UI system, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to completely externalize it, like I did with Spell Evasion or Armored casting. Then anyone could create their own feat system, by simply feeding a few spells into the function. I'm not about to do that anytime soon... but I can see how to get there from here. Something like that would not be remotely feasible with a dialogue system.

  • JarinexJarinex Member Posts: 42
    edited March 2019
    I like the idea of how the new feat system works (feels more natural than dialogue), but I had no idea that it made things easier like that. That’s actually really cool.

  • IcezeraIcezera Member Posts: 20
    Oh jesus, I can definitely empathize. After working on the PRC mod for NWN, I know the pain of editing multiple files just for one change. Nevermind then! Now to try to get this gui to work with me

  • lefreutlefreut Member Posts: 1,462
    Icezera wrote: »
    seems like a previous poster stumbled on this issue and am guessing it's because we both have lefreut's ui (SOD).
    Any plans for compatibility or should I just go ahead and reinstall without the ui? Is it ok to modify the feedback box only then since that's what I really liked.

    I really don't know. I'm not that familiar with how such UI mods work. If the UI mod overwrites files that MnG needs, then there's nothing I can do on my end.

    As I say, my understanding of the feat system is that it uses the same UI elements as the Spell Sequencer spell, so if you can cast Spell Sequencer, you should be able to use this. (I guess? @kjeron would know better than me.)

    Of course it needs to add some stuff to UI.menu to make use of the Sequencer screens, so if that UI mod overwrites UI.menu, and you install it after MnG, then it will break MnG. ( @lefreut would know better than me.)

    If all that conjecture is correct, then the simple solution would be to install the UI mod first.

    LeUI overwrites the UI.menu file so it must be installed before any mod that patches the UI otherwise you will lose the changes these mods made.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,442
    edited March 2019
    lefreut wrote: »
    LeUI overwrites the UI.menu file so it must be installed before any mod that patches the UI otherwise you will lose the changes these mods made.

    Thanks for the confirmation!

    So, that means LeUI should be installed before any mod that uses the spell-learning UI. Which right now, means Tome & Blood, Might & Guile, and Shadow Magic (EDIT - and Deities of Faerun, and Faiths & Powers).

    Realistically the safest bet is probably to install LeUI early before any Weidu mods. Smaller-scale UI patches like this are only likely to become more common.

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    lefreut wrote: »
    LeUI overwrites the UI.menu file so it must be installed before any mod that patches the UI otherwise you will lose the changes these mods made.

    Thanks for the confirmation!

    So, that means LeUI should be installed before any mod that uses the spell-learning UI. Which right now, means Tome & Blood, Might & Guile, and Shadow Magic.

    Realistically the safest bet os probably to install LeUI early before any Weidu mods. Smaller-scale patches like this are only likely to become more common.

    DoF also uses the spell-learning UI. Good to know this install order.

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