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Turn based versions

I have three
basic things I need to know:
1. Are any of the various games by BEAMDOG avaliable in turn based mode only?

2. Perhaps someone can explain something that happened to me way back when BG was released for computer and steam was just a small time outlet. I bought the disk version back then and installed it and spent the better part of a day creatihg my 6 member party. I then headed out for the big adventure but only got part way when I met a NPC who informed me that they had to become part of my party in order to continue. None of the dialogue options allowed me to refuse this request and I did not know if I could add this NPC then kill her and get my character I created back. It just hit me wrong at the time and I just shut of the game deleted it and gave my copy to a friend..
Now over the years because of this I have not bought any of the games in this series and if I had known tat IWDEE was one I might not have bought it. I have received some responses to this question over the years and most have said that I must have been wrong or I did something that caused this like having only 5 in my party but L know there were 6 and I had to remove one to continue on. If someone can shed some light on this it would be
awesome.

ALSO: Will it ever be possible top have a BEAMDOG game that can be played in both real tim/pause and true turn
based modes?

Comments

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,026
    2. You can still play with a full party created by yourself. When an NPC force joins, is asks you to "drop" a character from selecting the portrait. Just select her portrait, and she'll ask if you want her to stay, and you can simply say no.

    1. As @BillyYank said, turn on the auto pause for End of Round, and Enemy Sighted under Game Play in the options to have a turn base feel to it.

    JuliusBorisov
  • madgamermadgamer Member Posts: 32
    I have been doing that in my current game of IWDEE but I still find very frustrating, Are any games covered in this forum turn based? TO MY POOR OLD BRAIN RT/P & TB/P are exactly alike to my tired old brain which sees them leading to the same sense of frustration. I think my only hope is to try to learn to play them because I see TB games as a dieing form of computer RPG.
    I still stand by my explanation of what happened in my BG game those many years ago which ddid not give me a choice as adding the NPC that stopped my party.

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    edited November 2015
    You will be delighted to know Divinity Original Sin and Wasteland 2 are turn based. The upcoming Torment will be as well.

    JuliusBorisov
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 971
    If you are interested in turn-based D&D and creating your own party you could also do worse than checking out the old SSI gold box series. They have actually aged remarkedly well and offer very nice tactical combat. They are first edition based, so there are some minor differences, not all bad. For example, Rangers are more powerful.

    At low levels it is at least as good as BG in that regard, the higher levels suffer a bit from the old race level restrictions and the lack of variety in higher level spells.

    You can get the Forgotten Realms games on GOG (FORGOTTEN REALMS: THE ARCHIVES - COLLECTION TWO). Unfortunately, the Dragonlance ones are not available anywhere (besides Ebay), as far as I know. But there is a statement from GOG that they will offer them soon.

    JuliusBorisov
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,203

    You will be delighted to know Divinity Original Sin and Wasteland 2 are turn based. The upcoming Torment will be as well.

    What? The upcoming torment will be turn based? But why?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,460
    edited November 2015

    The upcoming Torment will be [turn-based] as well.

    What?? I missed that. Gross.

    "Sir, I have struck you! Now I shall stand still and you may return the blow."
    "And so I shall; and so I do! And, having done so, I will now stand in place whilst you strike yet again!"
    "Indeed, you are quite the gentleman. Here is a blow to the face."


    Yeah, uh, pass. Oh and also, they're developing on a tablet-compatible engine but not selling the game on tablets? Yeah, pass. Beamdog took an engine developed for Win95 and managed to get it working (sort of, mostly) on modern tablets... maybe they should teach a seminar for the Obsidian people on the kinds of software consumers are actually buying in 2015...

    Sigh. Time to put GemRB on my iPad and fire up the *original* Torment...

    joluv
  • MeyahiMeyahi Member Posts: 143
    Especially when turn based games are perfect for tablet. When play on my tablet I turn almost all pause options on in BG2.

    jackjack
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456

    The upcoming Torment will be [turn-based] as well.

    What?? I missed that. Gross.

    "Sir, I have struck you! Now I shall stand still and you may return the blow."
    "And so I shall; and so I do! And, having done so, I will now stand in place whilst you strike yet again!"
    "Indeed, you are quite the gentleman. Here is a blow to the face."


    Yeah, uh, pass. Oh and also, they're developing on a tablet-compatible engine but not selling the game on tablets? Yeah, pass. Beamdog took an engine developed for Win95 and managed to get it working (sort of, mostly) on modern tablets... maybe they should teach a seminar for the Obsidian people on the kinds of software consumers are actually buying in 2015...

    Sigh. Time to put GemRB on my iPad and fire up the *original* Torment...
    @subtledoctor You don't think that's even more ridiculous in BG which is attempting to be real time but mostly just standing around...

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,716
    By the way, TToN is being developed by InXile, not by Obsidian.

  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,414
    edited November 2015
    The spiritual successor to Planescape Torment and combat mechanics successor to Curse of the Azure Bonds? Cool. :sunglasses:

    If they've designed the battles well, it should be fun. Not to mention easier for the uninitiated to manage combat. Of course, if they mess up and have lots of battles where half the party does nothing, or you have to wait for a dozen or more enemies to take their turns, it could be exasperating, but that goes for any CRPG combat.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,460
    edited November 2015

    The upcoming Torment will be [turn-based] as well.

    What?? I missed that. Gross.

    "Sir, I have struck you! Now I shall stand still and you may return the blow."
    "And so I shall; and so I do! And, having done so, I will now stand in place whilst you strike yet again!"
    "Indeed, you are quite the gentleman. Here is a blow to the face."


    Yeah, uh, pass. Oh and also, they're developing on a tablet-compatible engine but not selling the game on tablets? Yeah, pass. Beamdog took an engine developed for Win95 and managed to get it working (sort of, mostly) on modern tablets... maybe they should teach a seminar for the Obsidian people on the kinds of software consumers are actually buying in 2015...

    Sigh. Time to put GemRB on my iPad and fire up the *original* Torment...
    @subtledoctor You don't think that's even more ridiculous in BG which is attempting to be real time but mostly just standing around...
    No, I think BG is slightly less ridiculous. The big difference is this: you can set BGEE to pause every round and play it like it's turn-based... but the turns happen simultaneously. I don't think Real-Time with Pause is the be-all and end-all of game mechanics; I'll take turn-based, just make the turns happen simultaneously. Note that the InXile folks completely ignored this point in their little straw-man FAQ about why they chose to go turn-based.

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,203
    The problem I had with turn based games is the fact that it makes simple battles last too long. If Baldur's Gate were turn based it would take us 100 extra hours to complete the game.

  • madgamermadgamer Member Posts: 32
    Well your posts gave me some thhings to think about. I will lock into some of the gamrs you sugest. One point is wasn't the first BG a turn based game? I never gave a thought to the time cumbat took in TB games. I will guve a great deal of thought to my party in BGEE when I finish IWDEE. I am doing better with the combat but that night be because 4 of my characters went through HoW first.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,460
    @madgamer No, the BG games were never truly turn-based. They are based on 6-second rounds, and you can set the game to pause every round. But during those six seconds, every character can perform actions simultaneously.

    DJKajuru
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,072
    Turn-based is more appropriate for games like Paper Mario, where the game isn't supposed to look exactly realistic.

    Meyahi
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,072
    In lots of cases, realism doesn't really apply much to video games. Many of the things that seem unrealistic are better understood as representations of the in-game reality.

    Ribald Barterman does go to sleep at night; he doesn't stand there forever. Dialog doesn't really freeze spells in the middle of casting. Not all ogres look exactly the same. War hammers aren't really bigger than your head.

    And that goblin didn't really explode into huge chunks of meat when you hit it with that arrow.

    BelgarathMTH
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,460
    edited November 2015

    In PnP, every player must take turns telling the GM what their character is doing, or else there would be chaos and mass confusion at the gaming table. The GM then has to resolve every action by every player and every imaginary enemy on the grid, one at a time, because the human GM is not a computer.

    I disagree with this. In my experience, in PnP you may all take turns telling the DM what you want to do, but the DM can then resolve all actions simultaneously. You and your opponent are rolling thac0 and striking each other essentially at the same time (though, of course the dice rolls happen one after the other). That's why there can be parrying and dodging etc. You can say "as the ogre tries to hit my halfling acrobat, I roll under his legs and pop up behind him" and you might have a skill check to succeed in your plan and then the result might affect the ogre's to-hit rolls or something. You don't have to wait until after the ogre has struck you to take that action.

    Turn-based computer games, imho, abstract away a little too much. There *is* a middle ground between real-time and turn-based... it is turn-based with simultaneous turns. I read the other day about some simultaneous-turn games getting rave reviews... I think "frozen synapse" might have been one of them...

    BG, with a bunch of auto-pause options enabled, ends up playing a lot like a simultaneous-turn game. I don't hear many people talk about it but I think the BG combat system was a huge part of why these games were seen as so great and as such a leap forward from the old gold box and other turn-based CRPGs of the era. It's much more fluid and fun, without going so far as to fall into the hack'n'slash arcade-action trap of a Diablo or a Bastion or something like that.

    @Dee mentioned Shadowrun Returns as an example of a recent game with good turn-based action, and it's a coincidence because I just bought that and started playing it... and I have to say, I'm finding the combat mechanics to be pretty awful. The turn-based thing is driving me crazy.

    BG or bust! :smiley:

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,450
    edited November 2015
    @subtledoctor , Here's my high school DM's chatter throughout our play sessions:

    "You see ten goblins. They all attack you."
    "Roll for initiative.'
    "Player one (two, three, four, five, six), What are you doing?" (Each of six players describe their actions for the combat).
    "You have initiative."
    "Player one, roll. You miss."
    "Monster one rolls to hit. Hit. He hits player one for 5 damage."
    "Player one, you have two goblins on you. Player two, you have two goblins on you. Player three, you have two goblins on you. Two of them run around and try to attack Player six, the mage. Player five, you have two goblins on *you*."

    Player six, mage - "I cast Sleep!"

    Player five, cleric - "I try to heal Player one with a Cure Light!"

    DM: "Player two, roll to hit. Hit. You do 6 damage and kill one of the goblins on you."
    "Player three, roll to hit." Hit. You do 3 damage.
    "Player four roll to hit. Miss."
    "Goblin on the cleric rolls to hit. Hit for 3 damage. Cure Light Wounds is disrupted."

    "Player five, what are you doing now that your Cure Light Wounds has been disrupted?"

    Player five: "Shoot, I guess I'd better just fight with my mace."

    Player six: (complaining) "Where is my Sleep spell? It has a casting time of ONE segment, Mike!"

    DM: "Coming up! But some of the goblins can still roll, and you have two of them on you. The first goblin (rolling a die) Miss. The second - (rolling a die). What do you know, it's your lucky day! Miss. Your Sleep spell fires. All the goblins fall!

    Several party members in unison: "We strike all the Sleeping goblins!"

    @subtledoctor , What the heck do you mean "the DM can then resolve all actions simultaneously?"

    This whole procedure is clearly turn-based as far as I'm concerned. I disagree with your statement strongly.

    Post edited by BelgarathMTH on
    DeeJuliusBorisovatcDave
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,460
    edited November 2015
    Again I disagree. The whole idea of "rolling for initiative" means you are rolling to see whose actions happen first within a single round. A round is 6 seconds and everyone is allowed to do something in those six seconds. Compare it to something like Final Fantasy or Shadowrun Returns, and it's a totally different beast: each opposing side in combat has its own round. There is no "roll for initiative" because my round and my opponent's round are totally separated in time. In essence, you get a combat round to take action and then have to stay still for the next round. Translated into D&D, it's like saying "you can only perform actions for the first 6 out of every 12 seconds, and then the goblins get to perform actions in the 7th through 12th seconds." In other words it's not like D&D at all :)

    Fallout at least improved turn-based CRPG combat a bit, because Action Points meant there were asynchronous rounds. Being faster than someone else really meant you could perform more actions - even if only slightly. Then BG came along and blew everyone's mind, in part because it really, truly represented the D&D system for the first time. It said, "there is a 6-second combat round, and everyone can take action in that round, and weapons speed and casting speed matter because everyone is acting simultaneously and, within a single round, 'hitting first' is an actual thing that actually matters."

    Going back to the "you have a round, then I have a round" system in the new Torment game is a huge step backwards, IMO. I think they just don't see it though this lens, and therefore don't realize why it might be a mistake.

  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,769
    @BelgarathMTH It's taken me a while to realize it, but I think the confusion is that what most people here are calling "turn based" is something ancient ones like you and I would call "I go, you go (turn based)". DnD (and therefore the IE games) are "we go (turn based)". But I don't think anyone considers that to be turn based anymore.

    BelgarathMTHsubtledoctor
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,072
    One of my favorite games back in the day was Okage. They had a turn-based system, but each character had a different speed, and gained an opportunity to make their next move at different times.

    It led to interesting scenarios in which my main character is about to get hit by the boss on the other side--the boss is right in front of him, frozen in time--and I have to decide if my other character attacks, and hopes that the main character can heal himself in time if necessary, or if the other character spends a whole turn healing the main character, which costs me a lot of attack power.

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