you didn't get my point, it's not that it is a link between the games or expanding the BG:EE experience. it's the fact it is an expansion pack, and paid one at that, for the game. if it was stand alone expansion which didn't require the original game... that's more conceivable.
What's the difference from paying for an expansion and paying for a stand alone game?
I getcha. You are making two points -- one I kinda agree with and one I that I disagree with.
1. I agree that that a stand alone adventure would be good thing. Why not produce "adventures on the sword coast"? Only with better title than that one . . .
2. You don't like the DLC thing because DLCs extract money from gamers via microtransactions. The critique is clear enough, it's just misapplied. When I bought bg2 I got neera, hexxat, dorn raasad and the black pits all in one package. (and some engine improvements).
Oddly enough I wish had produced its content in a way that would leave it vulnerable to your critique. I disliked the black pits one and I knew I would never play the black pits 2. But there it sits on my hard drive -- right next to Dorn who I've also never play and never will. I wish both had been offered as DLCs so I could have the drive space and the bandwith back.
I wish beamdog had spent more time on content and less time tweaking the engine. Thanks for the patches, thanks for the zoom but please don't change the BG spells to IWD spells -- because ain't nobody got time for that. The engine is dun. Stop.
We'll see how SoD turns out but I see hopeful signs. While I'm annoyed by the 'we patch once a year' policy, I am glad to see that they are going back through the adventure looking for ways to improve the story -- because the quality of the story is paramount. I'm happy that Chris Avellone gave it his thumbs up -- because his PoE work was some the best video game writing ever. (Evar!) I'm also glad that Beamdog has included some good NPCs -- perhaps they actually listened to those of us who were unhappy with BG2: Evil Edition.
I'm hoping that SoD is a good game -- I see signs that it might be -- and I hope that they will use their success to start producing either new DLC NPCs and/or a DLC standalone adventure.
So, yeah, I get it -- not a bad critique but not applied to the right game.
There is a world of difference between a DLC (which can be enjoyable but is usually just a tacked on 2-4 hour quest hub that is great if it comes with a game purchased past it's sell date, but hardly worth full-price at the time) and an expansion pack, which usually adds a 20+ hour campaign and brings along core changes that apply to the vanilla game as well. That is what Siege of Dragonspear is.
you didn't get my point, it's not that it is a link between the games or expanding the BG:EE experience. it's the fact it is an expansion pack, and paid one at that, for the game. if it was stand alone expansion which didn't require the original game... that's more conceivable.
I don't UNDERSTAND your point. What's the difference? A 20 hour BG story set between BG1 and BG2 is a 20 hour BG story set between BG1 and BG2, irrespective of if it calls itself an expansion pack or BG1.5.
I don't understand your point about "appearance packs" either. I can't see there being any demand for them, but if there where people willing to pay for them, why shouldn't a company make and sell them?
I don't understand your point about "appearance packs" either. I can't see there being any demand for them, but if there where people willing to pay for them, why shouldn't a company make and sell them?
I really don't mind DLC that's mostly cosmetic because I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything if I don't get it.
It's the "season pass" thing that annoys me. "Since the game has been out for 40 minutes now we'd like to tell you that we have a lot of DLC planned and though we can't/won't tell you exactly what it is nor when it'll be out it'd be wünderbar if you could you just give us the money right now anyway thanks very much."
To sum it all up: anyone who thinks Beamdog treats its customers poorly is clearly oblivious of how (actually) bad it generally is out there.
ok I've changed my mind on this I'll judge after the expansion is released. if it will be like old school expansion which actually expanded stuff I'll be big supporter.
To sum it all up: anyone who thinks Beamdog treats its customers poorly is clearly oblivious of how (actually) bad it generally is out there.
Konami being absolute turds to their player base doesn't somehow absolve Beamdog of its poor track record - one doesn't cancel out the other by virtue of being worse.
@shawne point taken, but why would you say Beamdog treats its customers bad? Not a rhetorical question, by the way. I'm checking my fanboy-ism, that's all.
@shawne point taken, but why would you say Beamdog treats its customers bad? Not a rhetorical question, by the way. I'm checking my fanboy-ism, that's all.
I don't ascribe malice to their actions, but Beamdog is committed to a certain way of doing things where the end result is a lack of support for their existing products. They allowed BG2:EE to stay a broken mess for an entire year until the Android launch necessitated the 1.3 patch; now they're sitting on 1.4 until SoD, even though they know there are still game-breaking bugs like the unkillable lich in Hexxat's ToB quest. Aside from wringing their hands and agreeing that it's all very unfortunate, they offer no hotfixes, no interim patches; solutions tend to come from the community rather than the developers.
Like I said, there are far worse examples of negligence and incompetence in the industry - but those only make Beamdog seem better by comparison, and quite frankly, "You're Not As Bad As EA" really isn't the sort of standard one should aim for.
@shawne point taken, but why would you say Beamdog treats its customers bad? Not a rhetorical question, by the way. I'm checking my fanboy-ism, that's all.
I don't ascribe malice to their actions, but Beamdog is committed to a certain way of doing things where the end result is a lack of support for their existing products. They allowed BG2:EE to stay a broken mess for an entire year until the Android launch necessitated the 1.3 patch; now they're sitting on 1.4 until SoD, even though they know there are still game-breaking bugs like the unkillable lich in Hexxat's ToB quest. Aside from wringing their hands and agreeing that it's all very unfortunate, they offer no hotfixes, no interim patches; solutions tend to come from the community rather than the developers.
Like I said, there are far worse examples of negligence and incompetence in the industry - but those only make Beamdog seem better by comparison, and quite frankly, "You're Not As Bad As EA" really isn't the sort of standard one should aim for.
I sadly feel the same. Still waiting for a patch to allow the DLC I paid for in BG1 EE to be usable in BG2 EE for ipad. That is one of the biggest issues I feel. Why is it that the DLC carries over on the PC version but not the ipad? We all had to pay the same amount.
@shawne point taken, but why would you say Beamdog treats its customers bad? Not a rhetorical question, by the way. I'm checking my fanboy-ism, that's all.
I don't ascribe malice to their actions, but Beamdog is committed to a certain way of doing things where the end result is a lack of support for their existing products. They allowed BG2:EE to stay a broken mess for an entire year until the Android launch necessitated the 1.3 patch; now they're sitting on 1.4 until SoD, even though they know there are still game-breaking bugs like the unkillable lich in Hexxat's ToB quest. Aside from wringing their hands and agreeing that it's all very unfortunate, they offer no hotfixes, no interim patches; solutions tend to come from the community rather than the developers.
Like I said, there are far worse examples of negligence and incompetence in the industry - but those only make Beamdog seem better by comparison, and quite frankly, "You're Not As Bad As EA" really isn't the sort of standard one should aim for.
I sadly feel the same. Still waiting for a patch to allow the DLC I paid for in BG1 EE to be usable in BG2 EE for ipad. That is one of the biggest issues I feel. Why is it that the DLC carries over on the PC version but not the ipad? We all had to pay the same amount.
@shawne point taken, but why would you say Beamdog treats its customers bad? Not a rhetorical question, by the way. I'm checking my fanboy-ism, that's all.
I don't ascribe malice to their actions, but Beamdog is committed to a certain way of doing things where the end result is a lack of support for their existing products. They allowed BG2:EE to stay a broken mess for an entire year until the Android launch necessitated the 1.3 patch; now they're sitting on 1.4 until SoD, even though they know there are still game-breaking bugs like the unkillable lich in Hexxat's ToB quest. Aside from wringing their hands and agreeing that it's all very unfortunate, they offer no hotfixes, no interim patches; solutions tend to come from the community rather than the developers.
Like I said, there are far worse examples of negligence and incompetence in the industry - but those only make Beamdog seem better by comparison, and quite frankly, "You're Not As Bad As EA" really isn't the sort of standard one should aim for.
I sadly feel the same. Still waiting for a patch to allow the DLC I paid for in BG1 EE to be usable in BG2 EE for ipad. That is one of the biggest issues I feel. Why is it that the DLC carries over on the PC version but not the ipad? We all had to pay the same amount.
What DLC? The portrait pack?
What DLC? The portrait pack? The portraits and voices from BG1. On the ipad version, they don't carry over to BG2 like on the other platforms. Even the developers have said this was "an oversight" but nothing has been done to fix it.
I would have much rather they expanded on the Baldur's Gate series rather than upsetting the flow. Making a stand alone game that doesn't link to BG2 and ToB seems completely pointless. The Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale series are my favorite games and I would happily fork over the cash to see them expanded upon. So disappointing that making them more epic isn't a priority anymore.
from what I heard SoD is going to link bg1 and bg2, the whole point of SoD is what happens inbetween those 2 games,
but for me, I don't think I will be buying this expansion just based on the fact that importing a character into bg2 with 1 000 000 starting XP is really going to unbalance the game, bg2 was set to have characters starting with 89000-161000 XP and scales quite fine with that, I once imported a black pits team into bg2 and with 500 000 XP I was mopping up the floor with baddies, people say that the game gives you bigger and tougher baddies as you grow in experience but its not good enough, I can predict that with the huge XP raise bg2 is going to be way less of a challenge, but then you might say; oh but there's nightmare mode, just use that. Use it for what? x3+50 HP and a little better to hit with a little better AC doesn't make the game harder, it makes it unnecessarily longer and boring I find, when I would play heart of fury mode in IWD, my usual reaction is; "sigh" this is taking way to long to kill this trivial enemies in this trivial battle, but then you could say; Sarevok57 you silly bones, why not just install so mods like SCS and all that good jazz, and my answer to that is; nay, I don't like modifying my game, it's perfect the way it is, the fun is still intact and modification in my opinion just takes more of the game away and makes it a completely different game altogether
my prediction is, the more jazz that they add to these games, the more I'm going to want to go back to my old vanilla CD games, I miss their old school graphics and gameplay, especially the path finding, oh the path finding was wonderful in the old games ( don't know how it become awful in the EEs) but with that being said, if the EEs are basically the final product of what we are going to get, then I might stick with them, but I feel as the more that is added to the games, the more unbaldur's gate like they become, and if too much gets added I think I will just revert back to my vanilla games
That's the issue, the extra experience is going to unbalance the game when you start BG2. They should have just made an expansion for ToB.
@shawne point taken, but why would you say Beamdog treats its customers bad? Not a rhetorical question, by the way. I'm checking my fanboy-ism, that's all.
I don't ascribe malice to their actions, but Beamdog is committed to a certain way of doing things where the end result is a lack of support for their existing products. They allowed BG2:EE to stay a broken mess for an entire year until the Android launch necessitated the 1.3 patch; now they're sitting on 1.4 until SoD, even though they know there are still game-breaking bugs like the unkillable lich in Hexxat's ToB quest. Aside from wringing their hands and agreeing that it's all very unfortunate, they offer no hotfixes, no interim patches; solutions tend to come from the community rather than the developers.
Like I said, there are far worse examples of negligence and incompetence in the industry - but those only make Beamdog seem better by comparison, and quite frankly, "You're Not As Bad As EA" really isn't the sort of standard one should aim for.
I sadly feel the same. Still waiting for a patch to allow the DLC I paid for in BG1 EE to be usable in BG2 EE for ipad. That is one of the biggest issues I feel. Why is it that the DLC carries over on the PC version but not the ipad? We all had to pay the same amount.
What DLC? The portrait pack?
What DLC? The portrait pack? The portraits and voices from BG1. On the ipad version, they don't carry over to BG2 like on the other platforms. Even the developers have said this was "an oversight" but nothing has been done to fix it.
Officially they don't transfer over, but a player can put them in their respected override folders. Limitations of the platform, IMO, isn't for the developers to fix.
I don't complain to Bethesda because I can't mod Skyrim on my console but PC users can.
What DLC? The portrait pack? The portraits and voices from BG1. On the ipad version, they don't carry over to BG2 like on the other platforms. Even the developers have said this was "an oversight" but nothing has been done to fix it.
Officially they don't transfer over, but a player can put them in their respected override folders. Limitations of the platform, IMO, isn't for the developers to fix.
I don't complain to Bethesda because I can't mod Skyrim on my console but PC users can.
It's not a platform limitation, it's an oversight, as a developer has said. I'm not looking to mod anything, just the ability to use what I paid for. That being said, how does one edit the override folders on an ipad without jailbreaking?
It's not a platform limitation, it's an oversight, as a developer has said. That being said, how does one edit the override folders on an ipad without jailbreaking?
What if the smaller patches screw up something else because, let's say, a part A needs a part B and C to work correctly?
If it's a wave of small patches, the situation can become worse. If lots of small patches are hurried out there, the risk of something else going South is increasing.
They had their bad experience of fixes creating bugs, and this is the main reason, I think, they prefer not to "hotfix" anything.
Yes, "one patch per year" can be a disappointing experience for those players that particularly feel the most severe bugs in the latest version, yet it's the least risky way and overall the best for the whole community.
And you have to give credit to @Gate70 and other developers who constantly fix players' saves of those "game-breaking bugs" you're talking about. Maybe this help is not a hotfix per se, but still it comes directly from Beamdog.
What DLC? The portrait pack? The portraits and voices from BG1. On the ipad version, they don't carry over to BG2 like on the other platforms. Even the developers have said this was "an oversight" but nothing has been done to fix it.
Officially they don't transfer over, but a player can put them in their respected override folders. Limitations of the platform, IMO, isn't for the developers to fix.
I don't complain to Bethesda because I can't mod Skyrim on my console but PC users can.
It's not a platform limitation, it's an oversight, as a developer has said. I'm not looking to mod anything, just the ability to use what I paid for. That being said, how does one edit the override folders on an ipad without jailbreaking?
You paid for it to use with BG:EE, which you can do. No where in the DLC description reads that it will be carried over to BG2:EE.
It is a platform limitation that Apple restricts you from copying the files yourself. The developers said they'd look into it, but you shouldn't hold them responsible, nor should it be a priority for them to fix.
Yes, "one patch per year" can be a disappointing experience for those players that particularly feel the most severe bugs in the latest version, yet it's the least risky way and overall the best for the whole community.
I quite understand that it's safer if numerous fixes are saved up until a bundle of them can be tested together, because it's more feasible to test a periodic patch thoroughly than a continuous stream of individual hotfixes. It also helps to avoid different-version problems in multi-player. Indeed, I made the same point myself in this forum not long ago.
Nevertheless, I think a once-per-year patch cycle is going too far, it's excessively frustrating for players who are waiting for something to be sorted out. It's very reasonable for upgrade patches (1.1, 1.2, 1.3, ...) to be infrequent, but interim bug-fix patches (1.31, 1.32, ...) shouldn't necessarily need to be delayed until the next upgrade patch. I suggest that aiming at a quarterly cycle for smaller bug-fix patches, in between the major upgrade patches, would go a long way to improve the player experience (and the company reputation). "We'll try to sort it out in the next fix-patch in a couple of months" sounds a great deal more encouraging to the player than "We'll fix this when next year's upgrade comes out" (even if it's then sometimes necessary to say later "Sorry, we're still working on that one, it'll have to wait for the following quarter's fix-patch").
Off the top of my head, I can think of three problems (all in BG2ee, not BG1ee) which keep on coming up in these forums because players keep on getting stuck - Saemon sometimes failing to appear at Brynnlaw docks, Korkorran's simulacrum sometimes being unkillable in Hexxat's ToB quest, and Szass Tam's fight in Neera's ToB quest sometimes making Chapter 10 inaccessible. (And how many more players out there have just given up the game in disgust when they couldn't get past these problems, instead of coming here for help?) An interim fix-patch for these issues would have been a seriously good idea ... in fact, with the SoD-compatibility patch still likely to take a while, an interim fix-patch for these issues would still be a good idea now.
The new portraits and voices aren't available in BG2:EE for PC, either. That bothered me, too, when I first got it. I'd say unfixed problems in BG2:EE are indeed a legitimate complaint. I'm not sure why they seem to have moved on without fixing them. I just haven't thought about it in a long time, since I haven't played BG2 much since EE was released.
Indeed, with the opportunity to do an epic full-saga run coming up I've been spending a lot of game time in ToB recently trying to work out what sort of party I'd like for the endgame. As a result of this I've realised that, as things stand, there is no way I can risk recruiting Neera in BG1, and picking up Hexxat in SoA is starting to look like a potential brick wall for the party as well.
In other words, now that there will be a continuous flow from Candlekeep right through to the throne of Bhaal, we need to know that our choice of npcs won't put us at risk of being unable to finish what is basically one very long game.
so you are talking about bugs which can't be fixed using console?
Also with new expansion coming (I've actually never finished BG1 ever... can't decide which characters to pick) it means we will play from 1 to TOB in single go without importing \ exporting etc?
Personally I would argue that if a bug forces you to use the console (which not all of us, myself included, can) then it certainly has not been 'fixed'.
As far as keeping a party together is concerned, obviously the whole party can't be exported from one game to another, but I like to keep as much continuity as possible so (and this just a personal foible), I don't recruit an npc in BG1 that I can't find and recruit again in SoA (i.e. I'll go through BG1 with a party of maybe 4 and fill up the two remaining slots in SoA). Equally I don't pick up an npc just for their quest and then drop them again afterwards - I like to build a team slowly and keep it together right to the end (if even one of my npcs is dead at the end of the final battle I don't consider it a win).
Also with new expansion coming (I've actually never finished BG1 ever... can't decide which characters to pick) it means we will play from 1 to TOB in single go without importing \ exporting etc?
You will still have to import your character to start the BG2 part of the saga.
Comments
1. I agree that that a stand alone adventure would be good thing. Why not produce "adventures on the sword coast"? Only with better title than that one . . .
2. You don't like the DLC thing because DLCs extract money from gamers via microtransactions. The critique is clear enough, it's just misapplied. When I bought bg2 I got neera, hexxat, dorn raasad and the black pits all in one package. (and some engine improvements).
Oddly enough I wish had produced its content in a way that would leave it vulnerable to your critique. I disliked the black pits one and I knew I would never play the black pits 2. But there it sits on my hard drive -- right next to Dorn who I've also never play and never will. I wish both had been offered as DLCs so I could have the drive space and the bandwith back.
I wish beamdog had spent more time on content and less time tweaking the engine. Thanks for the patches, thanks for the zoom but please don't change the BG spells to IWD spells -- because ain't nobody got time for that. The engine is dun. Stop.
We'll see how SoD turns out but I see hopeful signs. While I'm annoyed by the 'we patch once a year' policy, I am glad to see that they are going back through the adventure looking for ways to improve the story -- because the quality of the story is paramount. I'm happy that Chris Avellone gave it his thumbs up -- because his PoE work was some the best video game writing ever. (Evar!) I'm also glad that Beamdog has included some good NPCs -- perhaps they actually listened to those of us who were unhappy with BG2: Evil Edition.
I'm hoping that SoD is a good game -- I see signs that it might be -- and I hope that they will use their success to start producing either new DLC NPCs and/or a DLC standalone adventure.
So, yeah, I get it -- not a bad critique but not applied to the right game.
I don't understand your point about "appearance packs" either. I can't see there being any demand for them, but if there where people willing to pay for them, why shouldn't a company make and sell them?
It's the "season pass" thing that annoys me. "Since the game has been out for 40 minutes now we'd like to tell you that we have a lot of DLC planned and though we can't/won't tell you exactly what it is nor when it'll be out it'd be wünderbar if you could you just give us the money right now anyway thanks very much."
To sum it all up: anyone who thinks Beamdog treats its customers poorly is clearly oblivious of how (actually) bad it generally is out there.
if it will be like old school expansion which actually expanded stuff I'll be big supporter.
this will be available on steam?
Like I said, there are far worse examples of negligence and incompetence in the industry - but those only make Beamdog seem better by comparison, and quite frankly, "You're Not As Bad As EA" really isn't the sort of standard one should aim for.
The portraits and voices from BG1. On the ipad version, they don't carry over to BG2 like on the other platforms. Even the developers have said this was "an oversight" but nothing has been done to fix it.
I don't complain to Bethesda because I can't mod Skyrim on my console but PC users can.
The portraits and voices from BG1. On the ipad version, they don't carry over to BG2 like on the other platforms. Even the developers have said this was "an oversight" but nothing has been done to fix it.
Officially they don't transfer over, but a player can put them in their respected override folders. Limitations of the platform, IMO, isn't for the developers to fix.
I don't complain to Bethesda because I can't mod Skyrim on my console but PC users can.
It's not a platform limitation, it's an oversight, as a developer has said. I'm not looking to mod anything, just the ability to use what I paid for. That being said, how does one edit the override folders on an ipad without jailbreaking?
To quote a post, you can click "Quote."
What if the smaller patches screw up something else because, let's say, a part A needs a part B and C to work correctly?
If it's a wave of small patches, the situation can become worse. If lots of small patches are hurried out there, the risk of something else going South is increasing.
They had their bad experience of fixes creating bugs, and this is the main reason, I think, they prefer not to "hotfix" anything.
Yes, "one patch per year" can be a disappointing experience for those players that particularly feel the most severe bugs in the latest version, yet it's the least risky way and overall the best for the whole community.
And you have to give credit to @Gate70 and other developers who constantly fix players' saves of those "game-breaking bugs" you're talking about. Maybe this help is not a hotfix per se, but still it comes directly from Beamdog.
I don't complain to Bethesda because I can't mod Skyrim on my console but PC users can.
It's not a platform limitation, it's an oversight, as a developer has said. I'm not looking to mod anything, just the ability to use what I paid for. That being said, how does one edit the override folders on an ipad without jailbreaking?
You paid for it to use with BG:EE, which you can do. No where in the DLC description reads that it will be carried over to BG2:EE.
It is a platform limitation that Apple restricts you from copying the files yourself. The developers said they'd look into it, but you shouldn't hold them responsible, nor should it be a priority for them to fix.
Nevertheless, I think a once-per-year patch cycle is going too far, it's excessively frustrating for players who are waiting for something to be sorted out. It's very reasonable for upgrade patches (1.1, 1.2, 1.3, ...) to be infrequent, but interim bug-fix patches (1.31, 1.32, ...) shouldn't necessarily need to be delayed until the next upgrade patch. I suggest that aiming at a quarterly cycle for smaller bug-fix patches, in between the major upgrade patches, would go a long way to improve the player experience (and the company reputation). "We'll try to sort it out in the next fix-patch in a couple of months" sounds a great deal more encouraging to the player than "We'll fix this when next year's upgrade comes out" (even if it's then sometimes necessary to say later "Sorry, we're still working on that one, it'll have to wait for the following quarter's fix-patch").
Off the top of my head, I can think of three problems (all in BG2ee, not BG1ee) which keep on coming up in these forums because players keep on getting stuck - Saemon sometimes failing to appear at Brynnlaw docks, Korkorran's simulacrum sometimes being unkillable in Hexxat's ToB quest, and Szass Tam's fight in Neera's ToB quest sometimes making Chapter 10 inaccessible. (And how many more players out there have just given up the game in disgust when they couldn't get past these problems, instead of coming here for help?) An interim fix-patch for these issues would have been a seriously good idea ... in fact, with the SoD-compatibility patch still likely to take a while, an interim fix-patch for these issues would still be a good idea now.
In other words, now that there will be a continuous flow from Candlekeep right through to the throne of Bhaal, we need to know that our choice of npcs won't put us at risk of being unable to finish what is basically one very long game.
Also with new expansion coming (I've actually never finished BG1 ever... can't decide which characters to pick) it means we will play from 1 to TOB in single go without importing \ exporting etc?
As far as keeping a party together is concerned, obviously the whole party can't be exported from one game to another, but I like to keep as much continuity as possible so (and this just a personal foible), I don't recruit an npc in BG1 that I can't find and recruit again in SoA (i.e. I'll go through BG1 with a party of maybe 4 and fill up the two remaining slots in SoA). Equally I don't pick up an npc just for their quest and then drop them again afterwards - I like to build a team slowly and keep it together right to the end (if even one of my npcs is dead at the end of the final battle I don't consider it a win).