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Deathbattle: Dorn Vs Sarevok!

So its 2am and I'm bored, its time for me to annoy you all.

Competitors:
Dorn, the half orc blackguad

And

Sarevok the bhaalspawn

Dorn and Sarevok meats on the battlefield, which will walk away carrying the others head?

Rules...
1. This isn't a discussion of min/maxing stats, or manipulating things that the player can ultimately change (ex. Dueling Sarevok into a mage to give him a advantage). All examples must be based on lore and feats that the character has accomplished (novels and game, this is kind of unfair for one but sue me.)

2. No manipulating items, no giving them items that they don't START with, no no Carsomyr for Dorn, if he could wield it.

Now it's time for a brute battle, begin!!!!

«13

Comments

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    Very dependent on what version of each.

    Dragonspearelminster
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    In BG:EE Sarevok eats Dorn alive, he is the main villain after all.
    But in ToB, depleted of his essence, I think Sarevok would lose to the Blackguard who did an incredible journey across the realms with Charname and earned terrific dark powers.

    Moradinsarevok57elminster
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,667
    So this would just be a orc massacre?

  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    edited November 2015
    I'd say Sarevok has better things to do other than a sword-measuring contest with Poochie.

    For the record: I like Dorn.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,092
    In BG1, Dorn has the Poison Weapon ability, while Sarevok has no Deathbringer Assault, but Sarevok is much higher level.

    In ToB, Deathbringer Assault would move the fight decisively in Sarevok's favor.

  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,768
    Dorn is too metal to dance, unless you count headbanging and moshing.
    But, I really want to see Sarevok all dressed up fancy, dancing with Charname or Imoen on a ball now :X

    Goturalsarevok57Southpaw
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,295
    sarevok can dual to thief and two-shot dorn with assassination :smile:

    semiticgodGrum
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,433
    bob_veng said:

    sarevok can dual to thief and two-shot dorn with assassination :smile:

    How fun it would be to dual-class at the level that Sarevok starts at!

    sarevok57
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,295
    i did it once. saved witcher's keep for tob so i could do it with him. he regained fighter levels really quickly (and i even gave him an extra fighter level for a single whirlwind).
    as a pure thief in a ranged role he was not a liability because you've got great equipment for thieves at this point
    after regaining level - since he had uai he could use the insane headband of the devout and carsomyr which compliments each other enormously (becase of carsomyr's d12 so it's a significant net damage increase). against crit-immune enemies this is almost as good as having fighter hlas

    of course, i also gave him pips in quarterstaff, and let him backstab with the staff of the ram, which i did a lot. i also remember letting him use the staff of the magi but i don't remember for which function (maybe for the invisibility but maybe not...)

    so as you can see it's super fun. but he's still stronger as a pure fighter.

    the only thing that could put this dual build on top is carsomyr's dispel which may or may not be something that really enhances your party's ability to fight mages, depending on your party's configuration and also, whether you have a thief.
    if you play with an evil party and pc is not a thief i think that this is an optimal choice.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,984

    bob_veng said:

    sarevok can dual to thief and two-shot dorn with assassination :smile:

    How fun it would be to dual-class at the level that Sarevok starts at!
    better yet, I have had playthoughs in ToB where I had 6 level 18 fighters than dualed that last 3 into a cleric, thief and mage, very very fun playthrough, you want to talk about power overwhelming, once they get their fighter levels back they really start to wreck kids

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    It isn't exactly a fair fight to put Dorn up against Sarevok.

  • VitorVitor Member Posts: 286
    edited December 2015
    Sarevok eats Dorn alive in every single momment of the story. Dorn is a murderer of weddings, while Sarevok is one of the most menacing and terrifying monsters the Realms ever known.

    Dorn is a little bit stronger, due to his Orc lineage, but by very little (Str: 19 vs 18/00). But in every other characteristic Sarevok is better. His reflexes are better (Dex: 17 vs 16) and he is much tougher (Con: 18 vs 14). Also, Sarevok is a master of weapons and combat, since he's a strinct Fighter, and would overwhelm Dorn if he dare to enter in a swordplay dispute.

    Another thing to take into account is Sarevok's diabolic intelect. He has a freaking 17 genius level Intelligence! He would outsmart the half-orc in every single possible scenario, since Dorn is practically a peasent with his 10 intelligence.

    So, even in a parallel time line where Dorn reaches Sarevok Experience Level (because in my game he doesn't. Because it doesn't makes sense), still Sarevok would win. Because he's physically superior, much smarter and better with a sword in hand.

    SionIVsemiticgodButtercheeseSouthpaw
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    As much as I love Sarevok, he simply isn't strong enough to defeat an equally experienced Blackguard.
    D&D isn't mean to be balanced, there is a reason why Mages are so weak at low levels and can bend time and reality to their will after. Especially in 2E.
    I truly see no way for Sarevok to beat Dorn at ToB levels.
    Simply by using DUHM Dorn could reach 25 str, 20 con and 22 dex, which would be enough to straight out beat Sarevok's stats and GM.

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    Indeed mechanically Dorn is much much stronger due to his class, except maybe in BG.

    Gotural
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    Yes. Even in BG1, equip him with a mundane shortbow which he is unproficient with, load him with 5-10 arrows of detonation.
    Click Poison Weapon.
    Click on Sarevok.
    Watch Sarevok dies in a few seconds.

    RP wise Sarevok is fantastic but gameplay wise ... Sarevok is just a Fighter sadly.

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    edited December 2015
    Except that you seem to be forgetting that he only needs to strike once to kill Dorn.

    Deathbringer -> Blackguard.

    Poison is amazing, until you get one single item that makes you immune to it.

    And if we go with gameplay, then dual class Sarevok to a thief, get use any item and Dorn doesn't stand a chance.

    And no way of beating Dorn in ToB? I can think of a couple.

    1.) Equip poison immune item.
    2.) Strike Dorn and get a Deathbringer assault, bye bye Dorn.

    Now if we dual class to a rogue, we get more options.

    3.) Timestop, dead Dorn.
    4.) Backstab, dead Dorn.
    5.) One of many mage spells, dead Dorn.

    Gameplay wise, Sarevok has a much higher potential than Dorn will ever get, because he can become a rogue and gain use any item. Carsomyr on Sarevok? Yes please.

    So...

    Lore - Sarevok
    Gameplay - Dual class Sarevok to a rogue, and Dorn doesn't stand a chance. Or try to get lucky with a Deathbringer assault.

    Post edited by SionIV on
    semiticgod
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    Ok so Sarevok wins 3 battles in 100 due to deathbringer. Dorn wins 97, haha

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    edited December 2015

    Ok so Sarevok wins 3 battles in 100 due to deathbringer. Dorn wins 97, haha

    Gameplay - Sarevok (Fighter -> Rogue) wins 100/100 battles, haha.
    Lore - Sarevok wins.

    If both gets to use buffs before the fight, Sarevok wins by default because of Arcane spell and timestop. If they stand close to each other and aren't allowed to use buffs, Sarevok uses a potion of invisibility to get away from Dorn and puts down a time stop trap. Now Dorn either stay where he is and buffs, or runs down Sarevok and trigger the Time Stop trap, if he triggers the trap he is dead. (Time stop trap + time stop scroll = auto hit). If he starts buffing instead of chasing down Sarevok, Sarevok can fully buff with his arcane spells, if Dorn gets close, time stop trap will trigger. By now Sarevok is buffed up and can chain time stop to kill Dorn. Even if Dorn isn't on your screen, you can use a timstop to stop him where he is, and with Improved Haste you'll run him down in seconds. That reflection shield is lovely, returning missiles can be really useful.

    Even without time stop, Sarevok using Carsomyr will remove all Dorns buffs. What is that?

    No Armor of Faith?
    No DuHM?

    Damn, that's a 19/16/14 Dorn against a Sarevok that can use a Potion of Storm Giant Strength that brings him up to 24/17/18, and he also has Grand Mastery in Two Handed Swords. Oh, you want to use a Potion too? Well I'm sorry but Carsomyr removes those as well.

    We could also throw in Protection From Magical Weapons and Aslyferund Elven Chain +5 to make him immune to normal weapons as well. Hmm, it sure does suck when you can't deal any damage.

    And now when we are dual classing him to a rogue, we can ignore leveling up until we hit a level where we've gotten past the figher level and that way put all our proficiency points into staff, so we can use Staff of the Ram +6 and have Grand Mastery in it. Hmm, wouldn't it be neat if we also had Assassination up, every strike is a backstab, with the Staff of Ram +6 AND Grand Mastery? Neat!

    There are so many option for Sarevok to use when he is a Fighter -> Rogue and there is absolutely nothing Dorn can do. The one main thing that makes Dorn good is his poison.

    So now you'll probably think, "But Sarevok would NEVER dual class to a rogue". Well, I'll agree with you. LOREWISE Sarevok would never dual class to a rogue, but LOREWISE he is on a completely different level than Dorn. We're talking about gameplay now, and my Sarevok can easily dual class to a rogue, even after getting HLA as a fighter. The one thing that makes it so awesome to dual class into a rogue, is that a rogue requires so little experience to gain levels, and you'll get back your primary class very quickly.

    Post edited by SionIV on
    Vitor
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229


    Rules...
    1. This isn't a discussion of min/maxing stats, or manipulating things that the player can ultimately change (ex. Dueling Sarevok into a mage to give him a advantage). All examples must be based on lore and feats that the character has accomplished (novels and game, this is kind of unfair for one but sue me.)

    2. No manipulating items, no giving them items that they don't START with, no no Carsomyr for Dorn, if he could wield it.!

    No dual class, and no immunity to poison for Sarevok.

    Plus I already explained above why Deathbringer Assault isn't that strong.

    Under these rules Sarevok cannot win.

    semiticgod
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    edited December 2015
    Gotural said:


    Rules...
    1. This isn't a discussion of min/maxing stats, or manipulating things that the player can ultimately change (ex. Dueling Sarevok into a mage to give him a advantage). All examples must be based on lore and feats that the character has accomplished (novels and game, this is kind of unfair for one but sue me.)

    2. No manipulating items, no giving them items that they don't START with, no no Carsomyr for Dorn, if he could wield it.!

    No dual class, and no immunity to poison for Sarevok.

    Plus I already explained above why Deathbringer Assault isn't that strong.

    Under these rules Sarevok cannot win.
    So in other words the one who created the topic did everything that they could, to make Dorn win this.

    "no giving them items that they don't START with". Someone please remind me, what items does Sarevok start with when you get him in ToB?

    No giving them items that they don't start with! - Sarevok is naked.
    All examples must be based on lore - Dorn can STACK poison several times, a game mechanic.

    I could do one of these fights as well!

    Nalia vs Minsc. They aren't allowed to cast any spells, and both of them get to pick a melee weapon of their choice.

    Biased topic much?

    [Edited] Oh and for your BG:EE example Gotural, does your Dorn start with a short bow or Arrows of Detonation? If i remember right, Dorn starts with Rancor (+1 Two handed Sword) and a splint mail. Against Sarevok who has a Two handed Sword +5, and a really good AC.

    Vitor
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    But DragonKing would have done everything he could to make Sarevok win if he allowed dualclassing and unique items, so it's fair.

    It is a Dorn versus Sarevok deathbattle, not a Dorn versus UberCheeseLordSarevokDualThief.

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    edited December 2015
    Gotural said:

    But DragonKing would have done everything he could to make Sarevok win if he allowed dualclassing and unique items, so it's fair.

    It is a Dorn versus Sarevok deathbattle, not a Dorn versus UberCheeseLordSarevokDualThief.

    Either we're looking at gameplay, or we're looking at lore. If we're looking at gameplay, then dual classing Sarevok to a Rogue is no more different than Dorn using his poison ability. If we're looking at Lore, then Sarevok is a lot stronger and have accomplished much more than Dorn, Sarevok was the child of a god. Then again I don't see anyone arguing about how Dorn is amazing when it comes to lore.

    Right now it is a : Dorn versus naked Sarevok Deathbattle. What a brute battle.

  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    I disagree, dualing Sarevok to Thief is not canon and he does not start as a Fighter => Thief. When you recruit Sarevok he is only a Fighter, while Dorn is a Blackguard and has his Poison Weapon ability from the start.

    Of course in my BG:EE example Dorn has some equipment and some levels under his belt but it was just a fun example to show that even a level 5+ Blackguard could take down Sarevok. Comparing a level 1 Dorn versus the final boss of the game does not make sence anyway in my opinion.

    I'm pretty sure the OP didn't want a comparison of Dorn and Sarevok at each points of the game, but rather a global, balanced and fair fight between the two warriors. And in that case, I'm pretty sure Dorn will win because he has strong powers compared to Sarevok who is simply a Fighter.

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