The ultimate dart-flinging build
GreenWarlock
Member Posts: 1,354
I'm thinking of playing again with a dart-focused build. There are a lot of interesting darts available for sale in BG1, and the crimson dart can be acquired early in BG2 - although that is as good as it gets (other than 5 darts/day from the cloak of stars).
But how should I configure the PC?
Option 1 is a straight fighter, taking grand master in darts to effortlessly hit the 5 APR cap at level 13. As a straight fighter, I can pick any race, so probably go with a halfling for shorty-saves, dex bonus and theme, a half-orc for the 19->20 con in BG1, or a dwarf for similar reasons, with shorty saves, but a dex penalty? Halflings are my preferred choice, as this is a combat build that does not suffer unduly from not having a strength bonus.
Why unkitted? Kensai are not allowed to use darts, berserkers are not allowed to specialize in darts, and Wizard Slayers do not get to use Legacy of the Masters/Gauntlets of weapon mastery, that are important for a +2 damage component.
Option 2 is more interesting, a swashbuckler -> fighter dual class. Dual means I must be human, but Swash gets me some nice bonuses. If I dual at 5, I get +1 to hit and damage on each dart, and +2 AC compared to a regular fighter, AND I get to regain my abilities in BG1. I also get 125 skill points, which should max a useful skill or two.
Dualing at 10 means I complete BG1 as a thief, and dual for the start of BG2. As above, but with an extra +1 on each bonus (+3 AC, +2 to hit/damage) and complete 100% on all the interesting skills. Given the lack of STR bonus or other ways of boosting damage/dart, that is sounding quite nice, and may be the sweet spot for the change-over? Although it will be interesting to see how SoD plays into xp caps.
Dualing at 15 is more of the same, I can complete 100% on all skills, but don't get my Swash bonus back until level 16 as a fighter, which is a combined swash/fighter xp total of 3,100,000 - essentially right at the end of SoA for a party of 6 - although potentially much sooner if soloing (I always play party-of-6 though).
Dualing at 25 is the ultimate, if we didn't have to play all the way through. +6AC, +5 to hit/damage, and use-any-item HLA. Why does that matter? We have enough pips coming as a fighter to get grand master 2-handed sword, and both pips in 2-H weapon style, in addition to grand master darts - so we can fling 5 darts/round, and then switch up to Carsomyr when something bigger than +3 crimson darts are required. This requires 7.8 million xp to recover the Swash bonus though, which means you won't actually have that bonus for almost the entire game, and it is not clear that a party of 6 will reach that xp total by the end of ToB. Not sure if you could get this soloing in SoA, which might make it a worthwhile effort, just to say you did it?
Option 3 looks back at the swash dualing early, and tries an assassin instead. Assassin gets +1 to hit/damage, so is as good a way to pump darts as a swash until level 10, although no AC bonus, and lower thief skills. The trade-off is that you get poison weapon ability - do you get the 3rd dose at 8th or 9th? Either way, it is a tough call between Swash 5, and assassin in the 4-9th level range.
Option 4 does it the other way, and starts with a fighter 13, and then dual into a class that will benefit from darts. Dual into mage is the obvious, although by the time you get your mojo back, the mage-casting should outweigh the dart contribution. Dual-into-thief feels underwhelming compared to dual-from-thief-kit. Clerics don't get to play with darts, but IIRC, druids do. Dual into an unkitted druid? That has potential, but 14th level druid is a huge xp barrier after 13 fighter levels. Druids do add interesting versatility to the mix though, with Iron Skins for extra durability, the inevitable killer bees when darts aren't hitting the spell casters fast enough, a switch-up to energy blades as a HLA, and other assorted fun. On balance, I prefer options 1-3 though.
Option 5 - do Ranger Archer kit bonuses apply to darts? Missing out on grand mastery hurts, but +1/3 levels to attack/damage helps, potentially reaching +11 at 33rd, more if the opponent is a favored enemy. You can get regular weapon specialization for darts from the start of BG1 for +1/2 APR, +1 APR for 13 level ranger, the full 5APR will require gauntlets of extreme specialization from the lowest levels of Watcher's Keep. Plus you get called shots, and the option to be an elf (+1 dex, bonus with some swords). Down side is no running around in full plate armor, and the nagging feeling that you really should be using a short bow instead. Also, no specialization in your back-up melee weapon.
Option 6 - some other cunning combo I have not considered, Barbarian? (no grand master means low damage)
I'm currently leaning toward options 2 and 3, would definitely go 5 if grand mastery were allowed - regardless of bonus, grand mastery feels like an important part of the flavor of such a build.
So which combo would be favorite here? And if I go option 2 (or 3), at which level should I dual?
But how should I configure the PC?
Option 1 is a straight fighter, taking grand master in darts to effortlessly hit the 5 APR cap at level 13. As a straight fighter, I can pick any race, so probably go with a halfling for shorty-saves, dex bonus and theme, a half-orc for the 19->20 con in BG1, or a dwarf for similar reasons, with shorty saves, but a dex penalty? Halflings are my preferred choice, as this is a combat build that does not suffer unduly from not having a strength bonus.
Why unkitted? Kensai are not allowed to use darts, berserkers are not allowed to specialize in darts, and Wizard Slayers do not get to use Legacy of the Masters/Gauntlets of weapon mastery, that are important for a +2 damage component.
Option 2 is more interesting, a swashbuckler -> fighter dual class. Dual means I must be human, but Swash gets me some nice bonuses. If I dual at 5, I get +1 to hit and damage on each dart, and +2 AC compared to a regular fighter, AND I get to regain my abilities in BG1. I also get 125 skill points, which should max a useful skill or two.
Dualing at 10 means I complete BG1 as a thief, and dual for the start of BG2. As above, but with an extra +1 on each bonus (+3 AC, +2 to hit/damage) and complete 100% on all the interesting skills. Given the lack of STR bonus or other ways of boosting damage/dart, that is sounding quite nice, and may be the sweet spot for the change-over? Although it will be interesting to see how SoD plays into xp caps.
Dualing at 15 is more of the same, I can complete 100% on all skills, but don't get my Swash bonus back until level 16 as a fighter, which is a combined swash/fighter xp total of 3,100,000 - essentially right at the end of SoA for a party of 6 - although potentially much sooner if soloing (I always play party-of-6 though).
Dualing at 25 is the ultimate, if we didn't have to play all the way through. +6AC, +5 to hit/damage, and use-any-item HLA. Why does that matter? We have enough pips coming as a fighter to get grand master 2-handed sword, and both pips in 2-H weapon style, in addition to grand master darts - so we can fling 5 darts/round, and then switch up to Carsomyr when something bigger than +3 crimson darts are required. This requires 7.8 million xp to recover the Swash bonus though, which means you won't actually have that bonus for almost the entire game, and it is not clear that a party of 6 will reach that xp total by the end of ToB. Not sure if you could get this soloing in SoA, which might make it a worthwhile effort, just to say you did it?
Option 3 looks back at the swash dualing early, and tries an assassin instead. Assassin gets +1 to hit/damage, so is as good a way to pump darts as a swash until level 10, although no AC bonus, and lower thief skills. The trade-off is that you get poison weapon ability - do you get the 3rd dose at 8th or 9th? Either way, it is a tough call between Swash 5, and assassin in the 4-9th level range.
Option 4 does it the other way, and starts with a fighter 13, and then dual into a class that will benefit from darts. Dual into mage is the obvious, although by the time you get your mojo back, the mage-casting should outweigh the dart contribution. Dual-into-thief feels underwhelming compared to dual-from-thief-kit. Clerics don't get to play with darts, but IIRC, druids do. Dual into an unkitted druid? That has potential, but 14th level druid is a huge xp barrier after 13 fighter levels. Druids do add interesting versatility to the mix though, with Iron Skins for extra durability, the inevitable killer bees when darts aren't hitting the spell casters fast enough, a switch-up to energy blades as a HLA, and other assorted fun. On balance, I prefer options 1-3 though.
Option 5 - do Ranger Archer kit bonuses apply to darts? Missing out on grand mastery hurts, but +1/3 levels to attack/damage helps, potentially reaching +11 at 33rd, more if the opponent is a favored enemy. You can get regular weapon specialization for darts from the start of BG1 for +1/2 APR, +1 APR for 13 level ranger, the full 5APR will require gauntlets of extreme specialization from the lowest levels of Watcher's Keep. Plus you get called shots, and the option to be an elf (+1 dex, bonus with some swords). Down side is no running around in full plate armor, and the nagging feeling that you really should be using a short bow instead. Also, no specialization in your back-up melee weapon.
Option 6 - some other cunning combo I have not considered, Barbarian? (no grand master means low damage)
I'm currently leaning toward options 2 and 3, would definitely go 5 if grand mastery were allowed - regardless of bonus, grand mastery feels like an important part of the flavor of such a build.
So which combo would be favorite here? And if I go option 2 (or 3), at which level should I dual?
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Comments
My money would be on the Halfling/Fighter option but if you're considering playing Human and dual classing you might want to look at Assassin to Something. I've just dualled an Assassin to Mage (it seemed like a good idea at the time for a silly solo attempt) and although his character description is now Mage/Thief he's still got the Poison Weapon ability.
An Assassin/Fighter dual-classed at level 9 can use Poison Weapon thrice per day. Each hit does 12 poison damage over 6 seconds, with extra poison damage on a failed save vs. death. You also get some limited thief abilities, at the cost of plenty of HP.
A Wizard Slayer/Thief dual-class can also work very well, as the spell failure can be rather severe (it actually inflicts 25% spell failure per hit, not 10%). I'm currently in ToB with a Wizard Slayer/Thief and an Assassin/Fighter and the two of them can take down basically any mage with their on-hit effects, though I tend to use Fire Seeds even though both characters are good with darts (Fire Seeds have an area effect). Use Any Item can get you those gauntlets for the +2 damage, but generally I don't find extra damage to be as useful as stuff like on-hit effects.
A Swashbuckler/Fighter would be a good choice, but mostly for the thief abilities. The extra AC, THAC0, and damage probably isn't worth the loss of HP (a level 10 dual will cost you about 50 HP; a level 5 dual will cost you about 30). If you want strong damage output, an Archer is the way to go. The lack of grandmastery in darts won't have much impact: by level 9, when a fighter gets grandmastery for +3 to hit and +5 damage, the Archer gets a +3 to hit and damage because of the kit, on top of +1 to hit and +2 to damage from specialization, without having to invest three pips in darts. There's a very tiny window when a fighter is better with darts than an Archer.
Also note that the Cloak of Stars (from the Umar Hills quest, after the Shade Lord) allows you to produce six Darts +5 per rest period, which amounts to 18 darts at a time if you plan ahead. A dartist can use the Crimson Dart for normal enemies, nonmagical darts to break through Protection from Magical Weapons, and Darts +5 from the Cloak of Stars to break through Improved Mantle.
If this works - and if one is willing to use this exploit - it would make darts more competitive in TOB/late game.
Some mods really add to the possibilities, though. Song & Silence provides the Sharpshooter kit, which can get grandmastery (albeit without the APR bonus) with any Thief ranged weapon, plus Poison Weapon like an Assassin, at the cost of not being able to backstab. Rogue Rebalancing adds a magical returning dart to the game (very handy in BGEE) that is upgradable in BG2EE, plus a variety of useful bucklers to keep in your off-hand while you're tossing darts.
My pick for a Dartist would be Archer or a Thief->Fighter dual, either Swashbuckler or Assassin.
Darts and poison go together like...two...really good things. Yeah.
Combine the best of both worlds and take advantage of the dart's full potential.
If you want max dmg you should probably choose:
* Assassin and then maybe dual to mage to get buffs or fighter for armor access and future HLA's or go with blackguard for saves, debuff aura and the limited spellcasting. Poison and darts are like hotdogs and ketchup.
* Archer highest raw damage from the kit bonuses.
If you want to priorize added effects then I guess you should choose from:
* Archer for the called shot ability.
* WS for the spell failure effect.
I would choose (and I have played it) a multiclass eekeepered assassin/mage. The versatility is really good and you can use MMM's to compliment the +5 darts when needed, as well as using Tenser's. Flining MMM's is kiiinda like throwing darts, but maybe you want to play with only darts and not use spells? You will have prolly have a bit of trouble with low THAC0 using this setup though, so the 'easier' route would be blackguard, assassin-fighter or archer.
First out the gate is the Blackguard, with 2 pips darts, and one each in Bastard Sword and one-handed style. This has a strong start, my first time paying attention to poison - which was fun taking down the belt ogre. I just reached level 3 though, and it is dawning on me that giving up grand mastery is really going to hurt damage output. I was looking at it as losing 1/2 APR, and that was not so bad - but the real kicker is the +3 damage on every dart - I am dropping my expected damage output by 20-30%. That is an unfortunate realization before Nashkell, when planning to go all the way through ToB! That said, if darts don't work out in the long run, she is still a capable Blackguard.
Second out is the elven archer, which is also granted two pips darts. Still to get my first archer bonus, so still plays as a straight fighter with a poor xp curve, and not as capable when the enemy closes me down for melee. This led to an instant restart outside Candlekeep when archer and imoen were assaulted by both a bear and a wolf at the same time - no chance to kite one an engage the other. Restarting (for a no/minimal reload run), I finally made it to the friendly arm to recruit Jaheira and Khalid. I'm optimistic on the potential, and the character is no slacker, as...
both characters are playing classes that give crazy-high rolls, both have 96 point stat totals. Yay for stat monsters
I'm currently thinking my optimal build is to start over again with an assassin, and dual to fighter at 2nd. Compared to the regular fighter kits, at +1 to hit/damage from the kit is a reasonable bonus, plus poison 1/day. So more slightly better damage output than possible by a straight fighter, even at 40th (when I cap at 39), with the occasional poison thrown in for kicks. Dual at 2nd minimizes the hp loss from taking thief levels, especially noticeable due to the Con bonus, there is nothing really in the assassin kit to merit holding on for more backstab or poison bonuses.
It's still early days (I'm soloing him and he's at level 6/2) but I'm starting to feel that he would be a lot more effective as a mage killing specialist in a party than as a solo one trick pony.
So from a play-through perspective, if you want an overpowered sorcerer on your team early in the game, dual at 5 makes sense again. Now I have to explain to Neera why we just looted her of her neatest toys...
Edit: But like I said it's still early days (chapter 2) and lots of useful kit still to find.
Carry on!
Generally speaking, the benefit of darts is a high attack-rate, all-the-time, where each attack is more of a nibble than a bite of HP. While extra attacks are (almost) always better than fewer, the items/spells that give that benefit are generally spent on other party members for a larger incremental effect.
This does leave you character slightly stranded when pressed into using the back-up melee weapon, but I don't think we should optimize around the back-up strategy. Plus, we can always switch out the free action for a haste effect if we need to - but the default is high APR with free action.
Archers can get the same effect with a speed bow and the super gauntlets of specialization from Watcher's Keep - although by the time you take on the battle that yields them, your build should be pretty stable
Tuigan "speed" bow: 3 APR
+ ½ specialization in short bows
+ ½ at level 7
+ ½ with GM in short bows
+ ½ at level 13
You could therefore switch out the tuigan for gesen and use the gloves instead I guess. I've played archers, but never progressed through all of SoA and ToB with one.