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  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    Is tactics even compatible with EE?

  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    edited January 2016
    I've encountered my first major bug. Having installed the shorter cutscene component of BG Tweaks made my party unselectable after paying Gaelan Bayle. Uninstalling that component fixed it.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,621
    There is a long topic about Tactics compatibility, since I don't play EE I have not read it yet.
    But I guess, and I may be completely wrong, that the single chateau irenicus component should not have compatibility problems.
    As Ilych party is a lot stronger but use fair means (if a Fallen Deva against an unequipped and uderlevelled party is fair.....) and don't seem to cheat, but I did not analize the scripts, is just an impression I have.
    And also the Durgar parties you meet or spawn at each rest don't seem to cheat.
    I think that compatibility issues are real with other components, like the ones that enhance mages, beholders mind flyers and demons.

  • YamchaYamcha Member Posts: 480

    Uninstalling that component fixed it.

    This will likely break your installation. Its only safe to de-install the mod that was last installed. Otherwise all mods before x gets deinstalled, and then re-installed again. Most times something will break.

    gorgonzolamashedtaters
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,621
    The fist thing to do if someone want to mod his game is the backup for a clean vanilla game. With a copy of the original override folder an few other things is easy to have a clean vanilla in no time, and saving the weidu log you can easily reinstal the mods, whith the needed changes.
    Unistalling mods is always risky unless is the last installed, but sometimes works or lead to positive and funny situations. In my current game I have 6 or 8 difficoult brown dragons waiting for me outside Druid's Grove, lot of fun, lot of XP, lot of OP items (that I almost never use).

    mashedtaters
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    OH DEARY ME! sounds like I might be heading into trouble. We will have to wait and see :).

  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    I had a look at Tactics improved Irenicus Dungeon. Errrmmm not a masochist lol. How do you guys beat that!!!!?

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,621
    I kicked their .... with a full party, but also with a solo sorcerer, that is not the powerful sorc of late game, and with a multi duo F/M/T + F/M, and you can guess how much multi are uderlevelled. At least the sorc levels fast and don't rely on scrolls to learn new spells, with the multi duo I had them with some levels of the spellbook empty because I did not have scrolls to learn the appropriate level spells.
    I play only on insane and I don't use cheap tactics, often I use cheese, but I always reaload and fight the battle also whitout it. I don't like to depend on cheese.
    Tactics improved Irenicus Dungeon was a great school for me, a lot of frustration, a lot of reloads, but also a lot of fun and improvement. It changed me as a player more then anything else in the game.
    If now I am convinced that beating the game, no matter how modded or difficoulty enhanced, is at least 70% player skill and 30% OP items, toons and levels is because I played Tactics improved Irenicus Dungeon.

    Other players went trough it on insane with other soloers and parties, even with a plain Lathander Cleric. I don't feel that I have done something special and I think that in this board there are players that can kick my (you know what...) in an hipotetical 1 vs 1 fight whithout much hassle.
    But when I wrote "when you have become a strong tactical player, otherway is just a utterly frustrating nightmare" I had good reasons to tell so.

  • sluckerssluckers Member Posts: 280
    edited January 2016

    Just read the BG2EE compatible mod thread. So many options its making my head spin. I wonder what people here run with and which components they consider essential and if there are mods you strongly recommend I'd like to hear why. I've not had the best of luck with mods so I am a little bit reticent but hopefully you guys can convince me :).

    Install SCS. The improved AI scripts at the very least. The enemies behave much smarter and fight more skillfully, though not necessarily to the point of making things difficult.

    Some of the other components make things dramatically more difficult, but all in all it will provide you new problems to sort out and provide opportunities to play the game in new ways. The higher level enemies will even throw player-tricks back at the you, and use every ability at their disposal including HLAs.

    Skip the improved mages component if that's not your thing, but it's up to you. If you do the full install, prepare yourself for a very thorough spanking, but also a very enlightening education.

    gorgonzola
  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    I just finished the game with the following mod installed
    SCS
    Ascension
    Sellswords
    BGTweaks
    Back to Brynnlaw
    Dungeon Crawl

    I just want to give a quick impression to people who where like me never tried mods before (mainly out of competence with computers :)).

    First up Sword Coast Strategems
    9/10

    Fantastic mod, really dialled up the difficulty in a challenging way but non frustrating way because the AI doesn't cheat and there are always counters you can figure out. I enjoyed this one a lot. Minor annoyances introduced by this mods is the difficulty jump when your party is at very low levels makes certain early quest dangerous due to presence of buffed up spellcasters. Makes things fresh again. Also made dispelling spell protection, spells like Ruby Ray mandatory. Although it can become slightly tedious as some minor encounters becomes challenging. If you install beholder component in the game to the max it can become one of the most challenging Areas in the game, I had a harder time of it then Irenicus in Hell! Luckily its optional.

    Sellswords
    9/10

    Really well put together. Characters are interesting. Fully voiced acted. Although the quality of voice acting is inconsistent ranging from fully immersive to clearly amateurish (to me at least). Nice diverse bit of side quests. Pretty balanced foes and slight OP Sword Reward, although by Chapter 6 its not a huge deal. There are an abundance of protection from magic scrolls as mentioned before from vendors which you don't have to buy. Can pass for default game content mostly!


    BGTweaks
    10/10

    I would never play a game of BG2 without this again. The convenience some of the optional components offer is just great. Everyone knows shuffling stacks of arrows is not fun. Everything is optional so you decide how much you want. I love the Shapeshifting rebalance. Makes Cernd very useful if a little overpowered.

    Back to Brynnlaw
    5/10
    I had high expectations for this one as the ideas for this mod is great! Unfortunately its not nearly as polished as the Sellswords. The writing and dialogue is out of place. The items you get in this is slightly OP. The main quest is sound and give nice unique reward in the form of a

    bonus attribute,

    but some of the minor quests are really tedious and unimaginative and give too much exp!. Some characters you have met already in BG2 shows up but doesn't make any sense at all. I had problems in my game where the Cowled Wizards had broken scripts and just stood around, most likely due to conflict with SCS as I installed this after SCS.

    I don't think I would be playing this again.

    Dungeon Crawl
    6/10
    Short and Sweet. Well done charters and fun dialogue. The only reason this gets a relatively low score is because you get some crazy OP items with practically no effort (shop vendor). Granted if you did this early and didn't have much funds it would be more balanced as you can't really afford more than 1 if any of the OP items when you get there. But if your only concerned with having fun or don't OP items because like me you dialed up the difficulty with mods then its a solid 8/10!

    JuliusBorisov
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,621
    @biffyclanger , thanks for the review .
    About Sellswords voicing the actors are not pro, they are all well known modders, I think that in the readme is written who voice each char.

    I agree with you about (some of) the minor quests of Back to Brynnlaw, but since the main quest is good as plot and challenge I would have rated higher then 5*

    The sword in Sellswords imo is no more OP of many other weapons you can have at this point of the game and is of a type where you find another good one only in ToB or WK. I think that the vanilla is unbalanced about weapons, with bastard swords the first half of SoA nothing, in ToB they are among the best, with katanas is the opposite. So I appreciate mods that introduce new not gamebreaking weapons to balance this.**

    * Obviously is only my opinion.
    **the item is not a bastard sword, they are only a good example of the unbalance in vanilla.

  • jinxed75jinxed75 Member Posts: 157
    6/10 for DC just because you can buy a robe which is less OP than the RoV? The rest of the items you can buy are nice, but not cheesy.
    Sellswords however hands out ridiculous amounts of XP left and right without putting you up to a challenge at all. On top, you can steal *everything* from the merchants in one go, without getting caught.
    Never a 9/10 in my book, didn't like writing too much either. I enjoyed Back to Brynnlaw more.

    You should really try the Colors of Infinity mods. But they are more for people, who enjoy the RP-aspects of the game and enjoy talking to people and do non-fighting related things, too.
    There are not enjoyable for folks who primarily want to put their latest engineered powergaming setup to a stats-test.
    Tower of Deception has been mentioned, also fantastic, and challenging, especially if you do it around Level 12 with a mundane party.
    A really great addition to SCS is aTweaks. It not only provides additional challenge, but it does so by sticking to the PnP rules. If you want to have (much)tougher Elementals, Celestials, Fey creatues and Demons without them having powers they shouldn't have(like SCS Demons) as per D&D rules, than this is the way to go. Just install aTweaks after SCS, and it will override the relevant parts without overriding the SCS scripts.
    Rogue Rebalancing is an interesting take on the Rogue classes. Overall, it nerfs the thieves' traps, though. So check the readme, if you like the changes.
    It has also an additional, very hard and cheesy encounter commencing at the end of chapter 6. But it is very nicely done, with cool cutscenes and the chance of having quite a bit of dialogue with the antagonists beforehand.
    Another mod I could never play without with is the Expanded Thief Stronghold. But it is one of those mods which are not supported for EE afaik.
    Tactics is for people who don't have a problem with spending a whole afternoon on a single encounter just to find out which exploit works in your favor. Not my cup of tea, but go meet Illyich, Zhivago and Rasputin and find out for yourself.

    gorgonzolasemiticgod
  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    @gorgonzola In hindsight I'd probably give back to Brynnlaw better score if I didn't play it back to back with Spellswords which made some its flaws more jarring. They are probably not as bad as a standalone experience. Very sound main quest so probably revise my score to a 7/10.

    @jinxed75 you make some valid points. Its a quest I enjoyed playing. The length and endboss are still issues though. I'd still recommend it just maybe a 7/10 then :). Problem with the OP robe isn't that its not as OP as a RoV in game its that having 2 fast casters makes 2 spells casters able to do stuff like timestop before the enemy. If you follow it up with greater alacrity there is no challenge at all left. 1 fast caster is still not enough for some fights.

    I do enjoy tactical challenges as well as role playing, its hard to make both work well together SCS for most part doesn't break immersion, I mean beholders are suppose to be hard, where as reading some of the challenges in Tactics it sounds like you will have to suspend disbelief quite a bit to playthrough it. The Eclipse sounds like a immersive challenge where as the Acid Kensai with stacks of scrolls doesn't lol. I am looking forward to it being compatible with EE.

    But seriously fallen planetar in the first dungeon??? how the hell do you deal with that with naked default party??? Sorcerers maybe...

    I would like to try tower of deception now. However I finished my current run and will have to try it in a new run which probably won't happens soon. Thanks for the recommendation though!

    Rogues are not a class I play a lot so I will probably give it a miss as I don't enjoy backstabbing/trapping. I tried it this run with FMT holding a staff of Ram, its fairly tedious to run and hide for me at least. Eliminating enemy mages in 1 hit or spike trap them is powerful tactically but it makes the rest of the fights too easy/boring. I enjoy protection and counters spells and dispelling while all hell is breaking lose and you have to target fire and switch ammo etc. Granted I can see the appeal to other people though.

  • jinxed75jinxed75 Member Posts: 157
    You deal with the Deva by just running away and wait for her to disappear, or by successfully interrupting the summoning(you need heaps of luck for that, though).
    The RR encounter is interesting for every type of player. So you might want to give it a look, even if you aren't into thieves otherwise.
    As for the Robe, it is very expensive, more expensive than the RoV. You have to buy it, it is not a drop for free. So nobody is forced to have it.

    semiticgod
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,018

    Is tactics even compatible with EE?

    You can have a look at this thread: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/41242/tactics-mod-bg2ee-compatibility-conversion-and-beta-test
    Testers are welcome.

    As regards Improved Ilyich, the EE version fixes several mistakes (and one severe crash condition) up to the point it makes sense to backport the code.
    Comments about finding weaknesses in the Ilyich team as the primary objective are rather wrong. Such comments make sense for many other Tactics components but, here, the main design point of the module is to:
    - (minor) gather the maximum of scrolls and appropriate items before the confrontation
    - (major) divide and conquer + find a well suited sequence of fights depending on your party composition . There are tactics that make the challenge much easier depending on your own class, noticeably the sequence of the fight (do you need to kill Ilyich first ? the novice ? the golem etc...)

    This particular component clearly is a tactical challenge brinkled with (elementary) russian references and it is clearly not a mod for anyone looking for an immersive experience which amalgamates well with the initial scenario.

    semiticgodJuliusBorisov
  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    Its also a optional component which is great! Ill have look at the link cheers.

    Musigny
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,621
    edited January 2016
    @Musigny, Improved Ilyich is always the part of BG2 that I enjoy much, no matter if solo or with party, no matter what class charname has. So I'll like very much to be a tester, but since I don't own EE...

    @biffyclanger , Eclipse is part of the Soulafein mod, not of Tactics, same modder but different mods.
    You can avoid the Eclipse battle giving Soulafein the correct answer in a banter, as stated in the readme, but if you choose to fight is a lot more tough than the Acid Kensai or the other Tactics battles, maybe excluding the last with Irenicus. Someone regard it at the level of the last Ascension battle. But the Acid Kensai is in SoA, eclipse in late ToB.

    For the Fallen Deva the solution has been already told, but about the "Sorcerers maybe..." no early game sorc has the power to go against a Deva and survive, he is still a pure caster with very few spells learned, no specific equipment and few HP.

    About the Robe is powerful but IMO not gamebreaking. Not gamebreaking Just because with one mage or sorcerer with RoV, AoP and IA the game is already broken, 2nd robe can not make a big difference. Earlier 2 fast casters in the party are an interesting option, not too OP.

    Musigny
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,018

    @Musigny, Improved Ilyich is always the part of BG2 that I enjoy much, no matter if solo or with party, no matter what class charname has. So I'll like very much to be a tester, but since I don't own EE...

    ...Eclipse is part of the Soulafein mod, not of Tactics, same modder but different mods.

    Do yourself a favor, buy EE now or at the next special sale offer. The graphics engine is worth the price.

    Historically Tactics was part of Solaufein. Even those days, there are Tactics internal names referring to Solaufein.

    A non modded deva can be defeated at this level but there is no 100% guaranted approach to do so (afaik).
    For instance, for a mage, think about altering the saving throws + web + ranged attacks, perhaps with Melf's Minute Meteors to get a high attack rate. The new EE kit cheats features could help too.
    A better approach is to disrupt the casting or/and courageously flee.
    Also think about which team member you want to put down first.
    It is not a mod for cheaters, it is really intended for players who wish to spend a couple of hours on it and patiently build the victory conditions. If you don't have a snare specialist or a backstabber or a powerful mage with you, all the better - from the entertainment perspective.

    gorgonzolasemiticgodJuliusBorisov
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,621
    Musigny said:

    The new EE kit cheats features

    :smile:
    I did not know about Tactics birth as part of Sola mod, at that time I was playing BG2 but I didn't have an internet connection. Mods and the rest went in my life a lot after that time.
    I agree with you, a non modded deva can be defeated at this level, being lucky, but not by a solo unequipped sorcerer, my point is that at this level the sorc is not the life saver, also in a party, that can be later. Not much later, a couple of quests after Irenicus Prison my solo sorcerer was kicking improved demons buts (with the help of a couple of fully charged wands and a little better equipped).

    I know that is not a mod for cheaters, I never cheated with Tactics, there is no need of more cheat, you find plenty from the enemies. And never used too cheap tactics, no fun at all in doing it.
    My progression with it was
    -beating it
    -beating it in less then 30 reloads each battle
    -beating it with no cheese
    The next step will be beating it nerfing myself.
    Improved Ilyich is the component that I like the most because is the most tactical one, where they cheat less and the key to beat them is a clever guerrilla approach.

    Musigny
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,287
    I remember beating Improved Ilyich once after many reloads. I didn't really like it. Despite the fact that the dungeon's doors fix themselves open, the battle really boiled down to luring out one enemy at a time, whomping on it, and then luring out the next one.

    It's not the presence of difficulty that bothers me in fights like this. It's the absence of complexity.

    biffyclanger
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,018
    If you want more "complexity" then perhaps just fight several of them at once.
    However you highlight one true point, people have always had strong views about this particular module. That's probably because the difficulty is set too high and/or is unexpected for a first dungeon.
    From my perspective both categories of view are right. Most find it inappropriate and others are addicted.

    A set of successive challenges increasing the difficulty would be better for most players.
    But I also belong to a generation who played games which teached us to accept to fail. That's rare nowadays: cave bear at the beginning of Pillars of Eternity = a good, quick design decision. A sign you're not playing Diablo 24. That's not exactly the purpose of the Improved Ilyich component but it makes it more acceptable for this category of players.

    Anyway that's not a component for a "mod virgin", title of this thread so let's move on.

    gorgonzola
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,018
    In BGEE, I suggest using Unfinished Business maintained / enhanced by @AstroBryGuy on this forum.
    There is also the BG1NPC pack if you want to see BG2 like interactions.
    I almost always use a few components of the BG2tweaks on both BGEE and BG2EE.
    On BG2 there is also an Unfinished Business mod, very interesting. I have always been fond of the first component by Clifette. I think it is proposed as a beta version for the EE of the game.
    If you want to increase the difficulty, try Stratagems - all the generic AI components / mages / priests.

    JuliusBorisov
  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    Unfinished business was the first one I tried it got ended up with 3 Daxus the blue elf spawning in Waukeen's Promenade so I uninstalled it.

  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 2,243
    I use unfinished business and haven't run into that bug. Did you make sure to install the mods in the correct order? Or maybe it is another mod in combination with UB that is interfering with Daxus?

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,621
    @semiticgod, I like so much Improved Ilyich because I find a lot of complexity in it, strategical one, not tactical.
    You start with a low level party (or soloer), some basic mundane Equipment and a +1 dagger.
    You have to face many groups of Durgars before the main battle with the "russians". On insane each durgar fighter can kill your toons with few hits, they are good fighters with good HP and THACO. The mages are protected with stoneskin and have a second one memorized, they use spell tactics that against enemies of your level are very effective. Like Web and Spider Spawn.
    And you have only a free rest, at each other a new group of Durgars spawn and immediately begin to attack. and no Durgar drop ammunition or healing potions, that in the game are scarce, You can rely only occasionally on tactics like having one of your toons running as the others kill the durgar with ranged attacks and you have to rely on rests to replenish your HP, the few potions and Jaheira are not enough.
    The only area where they don't spawn at rest is behind the "russians", and among them there is a cleric who has and use TS and a monster that see through invisibility, you also need a "key" to get there. not too easy to sneak a party to a safe rest.
    If you survive you have to defeat the "russians", they have, and use, good healing potions and ammunition, that you can loot, if you kill them fast enough....
    They have also good weapons and armors, that you can loot, if you survive, and their spells are memorized again at each rest.
    A thief is really useful, but if charname isn't is not easy to reach Yoshimo, that can hide, scout and backstab but has very bad set traps skill, if he try usually he do more damage to himself than to the enemies.
    The russians patrol their area in groups of 2 or 3, are not static enemies, even if you lure away one of them you have to be quick when you kill him as the others give you little time before they reach the battlefield, even if is outside the area they usually patrol.
    Without talking of their level, the cleric is a ToB level, with HLA, but also the others are at least mid SoA level
    In my book this is A LOT of complexity.
    Shure, each single battle don't have the tactical complexity of the "acid kensai" and not all players will appreciate the strategical one of this dungeon, but there is complexity, not much in winning the single battle, but in wining the war, planning the order of the battles, gathering and using wisely the resources.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,621
    edited February 2016
    @Musigny, I agree that a set of successive challenges increasing the difficulty would be better for most players.
    But what make Improved Ilyich unique is that is the only place AFAIK where an experienced player can stress test his skills at very low level and without relying on powerful equipment. Everybody's Sorcerer is powerful with some levels more and RoV, but who really is the powerful one? The levels, the equipment or the player?

    Also I don't find OT talking of this here, as Improved Ilyich was the first thing I met when I was a mod virgin, some players begin to mod the game when they are quite experienced, others mod it at the first run.

  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207

    I use unfinished business and haven't run into that bug. Did you make sure to install the mods in the correct order? Or maybe it is another mod in combination with UB that is interfering with Daxus?

    It was the only mod I installed at the time.

  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    @subtledoctor Sry for the late reply and thx for the detailed recommendation. Might and Guile looks mighty promising! Keeps up the good work doc. I looked at a few of your recommendations they look interesting. Will give it a go in the next run. Some like Fishing for trouble are surprisingly big!

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    biffyclanger
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