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A caution: Microsoft has shifted Windows 10 to ‘Recommended’ update, automatic download

JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
edited February 2016 in Off-Topic
I've read here and there on this forum about problems Windows 10 causes, including the working of the EEs.

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/46993/windows-10-com-surrogate-issue

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/43274/windows-10-and-the-mobile-intel-r-4-series-express-chipset-family-causing-lag

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/42867/windows-10-game-lag

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/44894/games-stuttering-after-windows-10-update-10586-11

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/42785/massive-lag-after-upgrading-to-windows-10

The list can go on and on.

So, I've figured out I'd better post this on the forum: starting today, Windows 10 is now classified as a “Recommended” update, which means many Windows 7 and 8.1 users will download and begin the installation automatically. (!!!!!)

WHAT?

By default, Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 shipped with updates enabled and a second box — “Give me Recommended updates the same way I receive important updates” checked as well. Plenty of users have changed these settings, but millions of people haven’t. In this case, leaving automatic updates on has been a good idea for many users.

Users who don't want updates must either turn off recommended updates or disable automatic updates altogether. Simply deleting the file isn’t sufficient, your OS will download it again.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/222326-look-out-microsoft-shifts-windows-10-to-recommended-update-automatic-download

http://lifehacker.com/how-to-block-windows-10-upgrade-downloads-if-youre-not-1730024570

P.S. What happens with the world we're living in? Next they'll decide when we should update our cars and houses...
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Comments

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Personally I wouldn't mind Toyota updating my car automatically, if they didn't charge me for it. ;)

    I've been using Windows 10 on my system for about six months now; most of the issues I've encountered have been driver-related or UI-related (the Edge browser took a while to hit its stride), but I can certainly understand people's hesitation to make the leap.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    That's true--and one of the reasons why I prefer my Mac to my Windows machine, even though my Windows machine is objectively speaking more powerful than my Mac. I appreciate that Apple always asks permission before making changes on a system-wide level, and if there's something they want to do that might be controversial, they tend to make sure that the user chooses whether to opt in or not.

    I wouldn't want Toyota updating my car while I'm driving it. But if they updated it in the middle of the night, according to a set schedule that I could configure so that I wake up Sunday morning to find that my 2011 Prius has been replaced with a 2016 Prius, and it's still got a full tank of gas...I might be okay with that.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    I posted the following in the other thread in General Discussion. Could we maybe merge the two threads to avoid a split discussion on the same thing in two different forums?

    "Thanks for the warning. I think I'm safe, since my new computer already had me download and update to Windows 10, which I immediately rejected and reverted back to 8.1 as soon as I saw Windows 10 wreak havoc with my video and graphics settings, as well as instantly hating its totally changed and therefore confusing interface. I disabled automatic updates just to be sure, though."
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    edited February 2016
    You can get your old drivers to install. Basically so many computers got bricked due to win 10 using its own drivers a lot of people just tweaked the last current driver to not check the operating system so it can install. For instance I used this one

    http://www.eightforums.com/graphic-cards/37811-windows-8-1-mobile-intel-series-4-graphics-drivers-x64.html

    I was going to write a thread about it... But had a brown pants moment when I accidentally deleted all my display drivers leaving me with a blank screen... Had to sort it messing around with the boot up...

    So... No thread. But also no blame for bricking the pride and joy machine.

    Please. If you are competent. Use win 10 and just replace the faulty drivers with the old ones if you need to.

    EDIT: The x86 version is available there as well.
  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    edited February 2016
    Thanks to benghosi for the heads up, and I think @GreenWarlock has it right. It's a privacy nightmare. If you don't care about such things you don't but I find the 'you control how much information we gather' statement disingenuous. Most people who switch aren't aware that they are agreeing to share information by default.

    I ran XP until MS stopped updating it and will do the same with windows 7. Which means that I missed out on all the problems with vista and 8.0 and only moved to 7 when the people inclined to do so had written easy to follow instructions on how to plug security holes and to speed up the system by turning off unneeded services. I've found that by skipping the de facto beta period you end up with a stable, fast system. Of course windows will never be as safe a properly set up Linux box but experience shows that participating in the de facto beta test means running a system with holes in it.
    Post edited by killerrabbit on
  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402

    this registry edit will stop the automatic update and the nags:

    find key HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate

    change this value:

    DWORD value: DisableOSUpgrade = 1

    If the option isn't there you need to add it.
  • TeflonTeflon Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 515
    I doubt my lg laptop can handle windows 10. :neutral:
  • proccoprocco Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 915
    I moved from windows 8.1 to 10 a month or so ago and have had virtually no problems. If anything, my laptop runs a good bit quicker now. Maybe I just got lucky!
    Personally, I was not a big fan of Win8.1. That tiled tablet-like interface was a disaster. I had to hide that and keep my desktop up all the time.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited February 2016
    One thing I find amusing is that they say that you can always tell windows to revert back within 30 days (from within windows 10 of course).

    Thing is from the sounds of things that only works if it turns out windows 10 works on your system. Thats not necessarily the case.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Thanks for the info. I love Windows 10, but I also have two older machines that I am purposefully keeping Windows 8.1 and Vista on for the sole reason of running 3 games I cannot get to work on Windows 10 (Might & Magic IX, Entomorph and Wizards and Warriors). It's the only reason I still have these machines anywhere but a closet. Glad I had a chance to shut off updates completely.
  • IllydthIllydth Member, Developer Posts: 1,641
    I should note in corollary to the above that I absolutely HATE Microsoft for it's attempt to FORCE users to upgrade and even more than that to HIDDENLY upgrade their OS's behind their backs.

    Here's the real question: If you let MS updates update you to Win 10, how are the privacy settings that are an option to turn on / off at installation time handled? Because if they just skip the settings and take the defaults? THAT would be atrocious.
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,027
    Illydth said:

    Here's the real question: If you let MS updates update you to Win 10, how are the privacy settings that are an option to turn on / off at installation time handled? Because if they just skip the settings and take the defaults? THAT would be atrocious.

    I can partially answer this question.
    During the installation you will still be able to deactivate a few connections to Microsoft. Many parameters cannot be changed throug the graphical interface.
    I think it is even worse than forcing you to upgrade to Win10 because it gives you a false sense of privacy as there is a false sense of security.
    To partially counter-act this behaviour you may use one of the many "privacy settings" programs found on the Internet with no guarantee they do not fool you. Reputation is basically the only decision making criterion. However you can also filter your network as a partial counter-measure.

    This being said, windows 8 (and probably 7) has patches to send more informaiton too.
  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    Eh, so much to say. One of the things that Snowden showed us is that the 5 eyes countries take our information from google and credits cards. So the 'Snowden showed us the real problem breaks down some. So yes, we aren't giving MS any more information than we are giving google or facebook but -- yikes -- what a comparison. Much like saying that Fargo isn't much colder than Moscow.

    And even if you can turn off the data gathering you should be able uninstall it. If it is on the computer it can be switched on by people with bad intent. This, again, is why Snowden is right to warn us against NSA backdoors. Even we were to assume the benevolence of the NSA (and we shouldn't) hackers will eventually find those back doors and exploit them.

    This btw, is why I switched to Blackberry over Android -- Android locks you into google, Amazon and Facebook. You simply *can't* uninstall those programs without violating the warranty on your device.

    We need legislation to reign in the tech companies *and* the spy agencies. The privacy statements should be written in plain language by neutral parties. Everyone says "we use this information to improve products and services and optimize the user experience"; few know that means 'we sell your information to advertisers'. And why should you? The statement sounds like benign enough . . .
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited February 2016
    Also every company out there basically knows that no one reads the agreements that are signed (though people have come up with programs to search them for keywords and that kind of thing).
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    @killerrabbit those aren't the words in the privacy agreement that permit selling your details to advertisers, as doing so would satisfy none of those stated goals. They are the words they use to blind you before adding in a very tiny phrase that will allow that though

    @elminster for a long time I did read those agreements, even though not a qualified lawyer. The first thing to understand is that n matter how good your grasp of the English language, you are not qualified to read a legal document like a license without legal training. There are many phrases of power that have a precise legal meaning (based on well established precedent in other contracts using those phrases) that is rarely what you would understand from a plain-English reading of the same words (and the phrasing is rarely plain to begin with) The second is that they rarely care what they have written, as it is mostly an attempt to minimize damages in the event that you ever catch them out doing something unexpected, or equally to disavow any responsibility to you. One example is a company who supplied us with a software testing tool worth a couple of hundred dollars. They snuck into the license of a patch release that they could use our logo as an endorsement in their own advertising. As a Formula 1 race team, our endorsement would be a 6 figure sum at a minimum, way out of proportion to what was being sold. So we did not install the upgrade, and asked about arranging reasonable licensing terms. Of course, they simply used our logo without ever bothering to reply - they assumed that having sent out the patch, we must have installed it, and it would be for us to prove the negative. We also were not the only appropriated logo, but the limit of their exposure would be something like a refund on the license price, rather than than relative cost of the endorsement that they had claimed.

    I think they got away with it in this case as our legal team figured they were small enough fry that no-one would notice, that the cost of the law suit was more than any benefit that would accrue. It is also possible that my manager simply told me this to shut me up, and never spoke to our legal team, since everyone just clicks through those licenses anyway...
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    @Illydth thanks for the long reply. It does put my mind somewhat at ease when it is time for me to take the plunge and upgrade.

    We know online privacy is a lost cause, but I do my part by not using a gmail account, for example. It is hard to work around a company like Facebook tracking you across the web even if you are not a customer though - as you don't even have a license agreement with them in that case. For those that missed it (a few years back now, not sure if they still do this) every web-page with a Facebook 'like' button on it was effectively a bug tracking page views for Facebook, and if they could not marry the page view up to an existing customer, they tracked it anyway for the day they had some other info (such as when you do sign up) to marry that history to a real person.

    Losing privacy on the PC in my own home is another matter though. I have already largely given up computer gaming as the licensing agreements involve so much online monitoring, even for non-multiplayer games, that I cannot accept them. Taking your privacy seriously has a price, and is still mostly a lost cause, but I console myself with the moral high ground that I did my part - at least as long as I have something else to replace the lost activities that can occupy my time ;)
  • Yulaw9460Yulaw9460 Member Posts: 634
    edited November 2018
    Deleted.
    Post edited by Yulaw9460 on
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,603
    Whenever I hear phrases like an "upgrade experience" all my suicidal tendencies come rushing back - I do not want to live in a world like this.
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    "Confusing." That's Microsoft blaming the customer for "not knowing how to upgrade." Perish the thought that people might not want to upgrade. It's a standard convention that pressing the red close button in applications closes and, depending on the software, displays an information or warning message asking whether the user wants to save their work as closing via this method will halt any action/progress/history/etc. in the application. Microsoft designed it so that pressing that red close button downloaded and installed Windows 10 in the same way as pressing the Download and Install Later button. That's a typical tactic that malware uses to deliver payloads and install.

    A new 'Decline' button... it's only nine months late...

    What I don't understand about Windows 10 is the updating process after the upgrade. Why is it that when it updates, the throughput rockets and prevents the usage of internet elsewhere in the house. The only setting that has worked is on my rackmount firewall, where I can set specific speed limits for individual devices, ports, and services.
  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968
    Troodon80 said:


    What I don't understand about Windows 10 is the updating process after the upgrade. Why is it that when it updates, the throughput rockets and prevents the usage of internet elsewhere in the house. The only setting that has worked is on my rackmount firewall, where I can set specific speed limits for individual devices, ports, and services.

    It sounds to me like that might be a WiFi problem. I don't even notice Windows 10 when it's updating, until I go to shut down my computer. I certainly don't have any problems with my internet connection, but then I'm not using WiFi for that. It's just a direct DSL connection.
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    edited July 2016
    I don't use WiFi, either, though I'm guessing you have a faster internet package than I do.

    I would also note that this never happened on Windows 7.
  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968
    Troodon80 said:

    I don't use WiFi, either, though I'm guessing you have a faster internet package than I do.

    I doubt it, mine is just a basic DSL connection, not really all that fast. I'm supposed to get 1 mb/sec, but I rarely see anything more than 768 kb/sec, or there abouts. Though in my last Steam download, I was seeing it go up to 866 kb/sec.

  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    Then I'm actually getting a faster speed than you. I get, on average, 1.2Mbps, with a maximum being around 2.2Mbps. So I have no idea. I don't have a regular/normal setup by any means, but I didn't have any issues with my entire network before installing Windows 10 on one device. Natural conclusion, it's Windows 10.
  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968
    Troodon80 said:

    Natural conclusion, it's Windows 10.

    Well your natural conclusion would be incorrect then, since if it was the OS then everyone would be having that problem. And I'm not. My connection doesn't miss a beat when it's updating, I can still surf the web like I normally do. It might have an effect if I'm streaming a video, but that's not something I do a lot of anyway. I prefer to download and play through my hard drive, or watch a DVD. I suspect it has something to do with the connection hardware/software for your computer, it may not be fully compatible with Windows 10.

  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    Belanos said:

    if it was the OS then everyone would be having that problem

    That would also be an incorrect assumption, as not every problem will affect every single person. Though I would like to point to this article (except I had already tried everything in that article and nothing worked). There are dozens of articals on how Windows 10's P2P utilisation sucks up bandwidth, so it's not just me. The thing is, I have that disabled on my laptop and yet it still seems to be using it. Toggling it does nothing. What I can't tell is what the cause is.
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,027
    For those who want to attempt a privilege escalation on a w10 machine they do not fully control:
    http://blog.win-fu.com/2016/11/every-windows-10-in-place-upgrade-is.html
    https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/holding-shift-f10-during-windows-10-updates-opens-root-cli-bypasses-bitlocker/
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