Maybe I missed something but wasn't the whole point of Bhaal forseeing his own death and creating all those little Bhaalspawns was not to raise one of them to be the new Lord of Murder but in fact for him to regain his Godhood as the Lord of Murder?
Bear in mind I got bored part way through ToB and never finished it so I may have missed a story point.
Maybe I missed something but wasn't the whole point of Bhaal forseeing his own death and creating all those little Bhaalspawns was not to raise one of them to be the new Lord of Murder but in fact for him to regain his Godhood as the Lord of Murder?
Bear in mind I got bored part way through ToB and never finished it so I may have missed a story point.
Depends on how you see it. Bhaal, as a god, is an entity with basicly no physical form. So if anyone of his descendants becomes the new god of murder, he was successful, as the divine essence is united in one body again. Just because a pity mortal thinks he is doing by his own will doesn't mean he actually is. Dunno, I think you get the idea.
Maybe I missed something but wasn't the whole point of Bhaal forseeing his own death and creating all those little Bhaalspawns was not to raise one of them to be the new Lord of Murder but in fact for him to regain his Godhood as the Lord of Murder?...
This is true. Bhaal was evidently hoping that a faithful servant would resurrect him, and*not* try to usurp his portfolio as both Sarevok and Amellysan did.
But in a way it is academic. Because in order for BG3 to be consistent with WotC's other products the game's setting and story will be set one hundred years + in the future from ToB's conclusion. And at least as of 1479 DR (4th ed. FRCS), Gorion's ward (canon has it as Abdel Adrian) had chosen mortality and Bhaal's essence is locked away in the plane of Mount Celestia. We don't know yet if Bhaal will resurface in "The Sundering." That will unfold next year.
I guess it won't hurt putting the Infinity Engine to rest for BG3. That being said, I wish for the possible sequel to be as close to the Infinity Engine as possible. What I'm saying is: don't discard all the good stuff that is in there. Study the Infinity games well. Analyse what is popular and WHY they are popular and learn from it.
I'd love to see BG2 being 2d - maybe with 3d unit and spell models. One thing that was so fascinating about the Infinity games was, that even despite their ANCIENT age, they still look good until today.
Make the backgrounds and landscape pre-rendered 2d images with layers, the same way the Infinity engine did. But make it HD. And with HD, I mean *real* HD. Using pre-rendered backgrounds allows for an almost unlimited amount of detail and polys and graphics without actually sucking on the hardware - which is totally awesome. I'd love to see backgrounds looking almost like a photograph. Then add the 3d character, npc and monster models. Smooth and natural animations and equipment you can actually see on your characters.
I'd say isometric view all the way. It's simply the best anyone could ever do for RPGs. It combines the best of all areas: Tactical combat with overview, no trouble with annoying camera angles, improving the imagination aspect of roleplay (allowing our mind to fill in the gaps that the graphics can't tell us - we don't want our meat chewed, we want to chew it ourselves, so please spare us with annoying hollywood-esque cutscenes!)
Absolutely. I adore pre-rendered landscapes, they have a unique personalities and a sense of intimacy that 3d cannot yet match. NWN2 looks fantastic at first glance, but then starts to get repetitive. The tree seeds were the best part of that game, because it randomized the foliage, but even then you could only use a certain number of seeds per area! And the textures were limited as well. This all adds up to compromising the artistic integrity of the game. What good artist would allow that to happen? And yet we see it all the time.
I have an idea about how the plots could go for a potential Baldur's Gate 3, which also might fit within the context of not altering the story (if that contractual agreement still applies to a BG3).
My thought is that the game designers could take the epilogues for all the NPCs in the end of Throne of Bhaal and make these into possible results of quests in the game. For example, in Viconia's epilogue she is assassinated by a Lolth worshipper. I was always disappointed by that result, but what if that were one of several possible outcomes based on the player's in-game decisions? I mean, she could be assassinated, but there could be ways to prevent it and reach a different outcome based on how you played the game. Similarly, Aerie finds her parents in her epilogue, and that could also be a quest, but she could also fail to meet them or have something more complciated happen based on the player's choices.
Basically, my idea is to take all the existing NPC epilogues and have each of them become a BG3 quest. This would stay true to the original canon of what is supposed to happen but inject the possibility of change into the game, just like has happened in the other games so far.
But I don't think I would pay money for it as a stand-alone game.
EDIT: I should clarify that further. I would pay money for it as DLC. But I don't think the content would be substantial or engaging enough to qualify for an entirely new game with a new engine.
But I don't think I would pay money for it as a stand-alone game.
EDIT: I should clarify that further. I would pay money for it as DLC. But I don't think the content would be substantial or engaging enough to qualify for an entirely new game with a new engine.
My hope was that there would be other quests too, but that this idea could be included. I have some other ideas too, but this seemed like the one that would fit the best with the game canonically.
SPOILER WARNING! Huh, even to my own surprise, I like it! But you would need a general story line for a BG3, these could only be companion side quests. Given that the BG2 NPCs could become party members of course. The problem with the idea of a BG3 I think is continuity. At the end of ToB there are 3 possible outcomes each quite different. You could pick a canon ending, but that would make all your decisions in BG2 irrelevant, which could be quite frustrating. If one option would be made canon though a BG3 would be possible with the protagonist if he/she decided to stay mortal, if not than I could imagine a story about the new god being threatened somehow and you, as the new protagonist, possibly the son/daughter of the BG1-2 hero, should try to save him/her with the help of the old companions.
Why not play BG3 as your original CHARNAME's child? (assuming you had one, of course. For those who are playing a male/male or Female/Female romance, you could be an adopted child (or for any character, really). You could have the choice of a half-Drow, or Half-Avariel Elf to determine who your parents were, so if you choose them, you are the child of old CHARNAME and either Viconia or Aerie.
I wouldn't want to see a continuation of the player character of the first two games. It's the same reason why I dislike authors continuing a book series about a protagonist who is already achieved godlike status and saved the world a dozen times over. It feels forced and lame.
Sure, many fans will bitch and moan because they refuse to ever let the main character go. They can't do it. They refuse to do it. It's like they believe their lives will come crashing down around them if their favorite character is over and done with.
But every saga must come to an end. Sagas that have no ending are not fun to read or play. If a BG3 is ever made and it's a continuation of the same Bhaalspawn, I swear on my life that I will not play it.
However, if it's a new main character, then what I'd like to see is more exploration of different areas of Faerun that we haven't really seen before. Maybe even have the character be the spawn of a different god.
Personally I wouldn't even mind seeing the game in an updated setting of Faerun, with the spellplague and all.
For me the exact opposite is true. The whole point of interest for me would be to continue my party of at least my PC and Viconia (which are level 150+ due to multiple playthroughs since I refuse to start over due to the inherent pointless boredom I see in doing so) through new adventures. If I couldn't do that, if there was no continuity then in my opinion the game would have no right to be called Baldur's Gate 3 and I for one would certainly "swear on my life that I will not play it." I would never under any circumstances want to start over again with a level 1. At minimum I think they should be level 40, or what the characters were when they finished Throne of Bhaal in their 1st playthroughs.
I like your idea of playing further along in Faerun's timestream, such as after the Spellplague. One potential point of interest is that since elves, dwarves, and gods live so long in Faerun a BG3 could potentially be set hundreds of years after the events of BG2 and still have some of the same NPCs, but could also have numerous descendants of BG2 characters as well. Maybe this could be a compromise of the two ideas?
A favorable comparison could be to the Drizzt books that now number around 40. I have read all of them, and while one or two focus on Drizzt's companions, the main focus of the series is always on Drizzt. If they were to just suddenly veer off in another direction and focus on some random other character, but keep the name affiliation with Drizzt, I would be very disappointed and feel cheated and I would likely not read the series again after that since the whole point in doing so is to continue the adventure with the present characters. Some of the newer Drizzt books take place over 100 years after the events of most of the others, so Wulfgar and the other human characters are long dead of old age, but since Drizzt is an elf he's still alive and in his prime and adventuring at 200 something years old.
I am sure about one thing, the protagonist should be the same. No children, disciples or followers. That would totally ruin the game. I hope I am not the only one thinking that a story about the child of the child of Bhaal would be gross...
I agree that the PC should be the same. I think it would be best if the entire party could be imported from ToB into BG3. However, I think it would also be interesting if children or other descendants of the characters in BG2 were also included somehow. This would maintain continuity with the story while also carrying it into the next generation. Perhaps difficulty levels could be set based on if you choose to play as the old PC or start a new character from the next generation. This would also serve to satisfy people from both camps since wholly picking one or the other will leave some people disappointed.
Why not play BG3 as your original CHARNAME's child? (assuming you had one, of course. For those who are playing a male/male or Female/Female romance, you could be an adopted child (or for any character, really). You could have the choice of a half-Drow, or Half-Avariel Elf to determine who your parents were, so if you choose them, you are the child of old CHARNAME and either Viconia or Aerie.
Personally, I would prefer to continue with my current 2 person party of my PC and Viconia. If their child could be brought in as an NPC I think it would be a fun addition to the game, but I don't think it would be as fun to play as the child being the PC. The notion of going on an adventure with and ordering around one's parents seems a bit less realistic and less fun than ordering around one's child.
Maybe you could have the option of doing either? Like if you wanted to import your character from the old game you could be the same PC, but if you wanted to start a new one you could be the child? Keep in mind that for non-human characters a 20 year or more gap between the end of BG2 and beginning of BG3 isn't really very significant. Viconia, for example, is over 100 years old during the events of BG2 so an extra few decades wouldn't mean much to her.
I think it would only make sense if you went forward in time 20 years or 100 years. Wouldn't it be cool to goto Baldurs gate 100 years later. Imagine you were tuned back to a mortal level 1 and come across grand children of your old allies
Well they have said that if BG:EE and BG2:EE are a success they will make BG3.
Notice "BG3"
So what that says to me is that it will be a Baldurs Gate game, so it has to be set in the Forgotten realms, more specifically in or near the Baldurs Gate region.
With regards to if it should be a true sequel or not, in my opinion it should, a lot of people will probably disagree with me on this, but to me TOB was trash and not a fitting end whatsoever.
Fallout 3 changed history and if they wanted to they could easily alter the ending of TOB to leave open the potential for BG3 to take place as a direct sequel. There is the problem of levels getting too high which is a nightmare for new players or non-experts. But that's easily solved, just have the writers cook up some manner for the characters to be level drained at the start of the game, it may sound cliche, but if the rest of the game is a classic nobody is going to care too much.
The main thing i'd like to see is new, exotic areas, and exploration, build in teleportation as a game mechanic, lets go to icewind dale! lets go to the Moonshae Isles! lets go to the great dessert! lets go to these places!
I always had the idea of having BGIII surround the Flail of Ages.
Anomen returns to Athkatla after ToB to see the city under siege by Rakshasa. He joins the battle with the newly minted +5 flail and is defeated in battle. The Rakshasa retreat, however, the Flail heads are once again lost with only one being found by his body.
Fast forward a few years and new character, from Trademeet, is off doing whatever and finds one of the flail heads. Words spread about the artifact resurfacing and CHARNAME (with that kid from Trademeet who says he wants to be an adventurer when he grows up) is off in a quest to either assemble the entire flail again, or attempt to keep them out of evils factions hands.
After reading many of the responses on this thread it has become clear to me that there are many diverse opinions for what people think Baldur's Gate 3 should look like. Personally, I would prefer it have some connection to BG2, but I also think it should try to embrace as many different ideas as possible.
Regardless of what plot is decided on for BG3, if it has an connection to the earlier games, would conceptually make sense, or if some people feel it would be over-powered I still think, at minimum, people should have the option of importing their PC and at least one NPC of their choice from BG2 into BG3. Even if there wasn't any additional NPC banter and the voices remained the same as they are in BG2, I would still find it more fun if I could do that. I mean, if you think about it, it doesn't conceptually make sense plot-wise that you can import your BG2 character from the end of ToB into the beginning of SoA, but you can and for me that is what makes the game fun. Had I not been able to play multiple playthroughs with the same characters and to continue on from BG1 to BG2, I would probably only have played once (as I did with Oblivion) instead of playing continuosly for years. This is also the reason I never played Icewind Dale 2, since I could not import my IWD1 PC and for me starting over wasn't fun.
Everyone likes to play the game differenly so I think it makes the most sense to allow them to do just that. It doesn't seem like giving each player the choice to continue (even if the plot were different) would harm the game experience for people who wanted it to be different since each person could just make their own choice. Giving players options would make it fun for everyone, regardless of which direction the game takes.
Comments
Bear in mind I got bored part way through ToB and never finished it so I may have missed a story point.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/4998/baldurs-gate-iii-plot/p1
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/4782/what-will-bg3-be-about-spoilers-for-bg2-and-tob/p1
But in a way it is academic. Because in order for BG3 to be consistent with WotC's other products the game's setting and story will be set one hundred years + in the future from ToB's conclusion. And at least as of 1479 DR (4th ed. FRCS), Gorion's ward (canon has it as Abdel Adrian) had chosen mortality and Bhaal's essence is locked away in the plane of Mount Celestia. We don't know yet if Bhaal will resurface in "The Sundering." That will unfold next year.
My thought is that the game designers could take the epilogues for all the NPCs in the end of Throne of Bhaal and make these into possible results of quests in the game. For example, in Viconia's epilogue she is assassinated by a Lolth worshipper. I was always disappointed by that result, but what if that were one of several possible outcomes based on the player's in-game decisions? I mean, she could be assassinated, but there could be ways to prevent it and reach a different outcome based on how you played the game. Similarly, Aerie finds her parents in her epilogue, and that could also be a quest, but she could also fail to meet them or have something more complciated happen based on the player's choices.
Basically, my idea is to take all the existing NPC epilogues and have each of them become a BG3 quest. This would stay true to the original canon of what is supposed to happen but inject the possibility of change into the game, just like has happened in the other games so far.
What do you think?
But I don't think I would pay money for it as a stand-alone game.
EDIT: I should clarify that further. I would pay money for it as DLC. But I don't think the content would be substantial or engaging enough to qualify for an entirely new game with a new engine.
Huh, even to my own surprise, I like it! But you would need a general story line for a BG3, these could only be companion side quests. Given that the BG2 NPCs could become party members of course.
The problem with the idea of a BG3 I think is continuity. At the end of ToB there are 3 possible outcomes each quite different. You could pick a canon ending, but that would make all your decisions in BG2 irrelevant, which could be quite frustrating. If one option would be made canon though a BG3 would be possible with the protagonist if he/she decided to stay mortal, if not than I could imagine a story about the new god being threatened somehow and you, as the new protagonist, possibly the son/daughter of the BG1-2 hero, should try to save him/her with the help of the old companions.
@Tanthalas perhaps need to be merged
I like your idea of playing further along in Faerun's timestream, such as after the Spellplague. One potential point of interest is that since elves, dwarves, and gods live so long in Faerun a BG3 could potentially be set hundreds of years after the events of BG2 and still have some of the same NPCs, but could also have numerous descendants of BG2 characters as well. Maybe this could be a compromise of the two ideas?
A favorable comparison could be to the Drizzt books that now number around 40. I have read all of them, and while one or two focus on Drizzt's companions, the main focus of the series is always on Drizzt. If they were to just suddenly veer off in another direction and focus on some random other character, but keep the name affiliation with Drizzt, I would be very disappointed and feel cheated and I would likely not read the series again after that since the whole point in doing so is to continue the adventure with the present characters. Some of the newer Drizzt books take place over 100 years after the events of most of the others, so Wulfgar and the other human characters are long dead of old age, but since Drizzt is an elf he's still alive and in his prime and adventuring at 200 something years old.
Maybe you could have the option of doing either? Like if you wanted to import your character from the old game you could be the same PC, but if you wanted to start a new one you could be the child? Keep in mind that for non-human characters a 20 year or more gap between the end of BG2 and beginning of BG3 isn't really very significant. Viconia, for example, is over 100 years old during the events of BG2 so an extra few decades wouldn't mean much to her.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_Gate_III:_The_Black_Hound
Notice "BG3"
So what that says to me is that it will be a Baldurs Gate game, so it has to be set in the Forgotten realms, more specifically in or near the Baldurs Gate region.
With regards to if it should be a true sequel or not, in my opinion it should, a lot of people will probably disagree with me on this, but to me TOB was trash and not a fitting end whatsoever.
Fallout 3 changed history and if they wanted to they could easily alter the ending of TOB to leave open the potential for BG3 to take place as a direct sequel. There is the problem of levels getting too high which is a nightmare for new players or non-experts. But that's easily solved, just have the writers cook up some manner for the characters to be level drained at the start of the game, it may sound cliche, but if the rest of the game is a classic nobody is going to care too much.
The main thing i'd like to see is new, exotic areas, and exploration, build in teleportation as a game mechanic, lets go to icewind dale! lets go to the Moonshae Isles! lets go to the great dessert! lets go to these places!
Anomen returns to Athkatla after ToB to see the city under siege by Rakshasa. He joins the battle with the newly minted +5 flail and is defeated in battle. The Rakshasa retreat, however, the Flail heads are once again lost with only one being found by his body.
Fast forward a few years and new character, from Trademeet, is off doing whatever and finds one of the flail heads. Words spread about the artifact resurfacing and CHARNAME (with that kid from Trademeet who says he wants to be an adventurer when he grows up) is off in a quest to either assemble the entire flail again, or attempt to keep them out of evils factions hands.
Regardless of what plot is decided on for BG3, if it has an connection to the earlier games, would conceptually make sense, or if some people feel it would be over-powered I still think, at minimum, people should have the option of importing their PC and at least one NPC of their choice from BG2 into BG3. Even if there wasn't any additional NPC banter and the voices remained the same as they are in BG2, I would still find it more fun if I could do that. I mean, if you think about it, it doesn't conceptually make sense plot-wise that you can import your BG2 character from the end of ToB into the beginning of SoA, but you can and for me that is what makes the game fun. Had I not been able to play multiple playthroughs with the same characters and to continue on from BG1 to BG2, I would probably only have played once (as I did with Oblivion) instead of playing continuosly for years. This is also the reason I never played Icewind Dale 2, since I could not import my IWD1 PC and for me starting over wasn't fun.
Everyone likes to play the game differenly so I think it makes the most sense to allow them to do just that. It doesn't seem like giving each player the choice to continue (even if the plot were different) would harm the game experience for people who wanted it to be different since each person could just make their own choice. Giving players options would make it fun for everyone, regardless of which direction the game takes.