Next week = salary = $140 Project: Eternity tier + expansion pack + soundtrack on CD = EPIC WIN.
... and if they keep tiers up until January, I'm going to upgrade to the $250 tier and get ahold of that supernifty Collector's Book Hardcover (not to mention Wasteland 2).
I didn't, that's just my personal wishful thinking. They said Paypal tiers are going to stay up only for a very limited time, so I'm afraid I'll have to "settle" for the $140 tier. Just let me dream until they take them down
@Zeckul I clicked on your moon hoax link. On the one hand some of it's pretty hilarious; one post describes the guy performing an "experiment" where he just throws half a dozen pieces of junk in the direction of the moon and conludes that it must not exist because the items all fail to hit it. On the other hand, knowing that in all likelihood this guy is completely serious makes me not want to live on this planet anymore.
On the other hand, knowing that in all likelihood this guy is completely serious makes me not want to live on this planet anymore.
This entire site is a piece of satire aimed to destroy conspiracy theories by pushing their methods to the point of utter absurdity. The name of the site, "the Mad Revisionist", should make that clear by itself. When I say absurd, I mean the author manages to make his own existence a conspiracy. http://www.revisionism.nl/Ego/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm
On the other hand, knowing that in all likelihood this guy is completely serious makes me not want to live on this planet anymore.
This entire site is a piece of satire aimed to destroy conspiracy theories by pushing their methods to the point of utter absurdity. The name of the site, "the Mad Revisionist", should make that clear by itself. When I say absurd, I mean the author manages to make his own existence a conspiracy. http://www.revisionism.nl/Ego/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm
Oh haha that makes sense. It had occurred to me that it was all a joke but after spending enough time on the internet I no longer take sanity for granted. I guess it's kind of ironic that I would fail to recognize satire/sarcasm and in the same post point out to someone that they missed satire/sarcasm.
Uh - I left this thread alone for about a month, because the topic only marginally interests me, and now I've come back and read the last two pages, and I'm lost.
Does this still have anything to do with Project Eternity?
@Shandyr, well, I was very excited about it when I first visited the website and read their projections about what they wanted to create. But then, I saw their time estimate of least two years to produce it.
And then, I started reading between the lines, and started to smell vaporware. Very expensive vaporware. I've already paid for a mere "idea" of software, when I pre-ordered BG:EE, and then, sure enough, look where we all are now.
So, my attitude toward anything on Kickstart has become, "Produce something first, then sell me on it. I will be very grateful, if it's good, toward you and toward all the people who had enough money-to-burn to finance your production of this, which has turned out to be a treasured game of mine."
@Shandyr, yes, I see your point. And, if I weren't on a very tight budget, needing to be very, very, careful how and where I spend money, I might also "donate" to ideas of game software that I'd like to see produced.
Could someone summarize for me and remind me why we should be excited about the possibility of Eternity? If it's supposed to be like Skyrim, I'm not very interested. If it's supposed to be like BG or Neverwinter Nights, then, I might be interested.
@Shandyr, well, they certainly have plenty of money to make the attempt. 4.1 *million*? That blows my mind. They should be able to open a production company of their own on that amount.
I assume that everyone who pays money on Kickstart has to sign off on some kind of "I am fully aware I might be burning money and expect nothing in return" legal agreement, right?
LOL. "COULD result in damage to your reputation or EVEN result in legal action from your backers." "We HOPE that backers will..."
Those are "weasel" words if I"ve ever seen them. If you pay twenty, forty, or one hundred dollars today to a production team who has very openly told you that it will be at least two years before what you've paid for has a *chance* to see the light of day, would *you* try to get a lawyer and sue for your one hundred dollars, two or more years after you paid it?
Sorry, friends, but my skeptical "scam/con" warning lights are flashing like a Christmas tree.
EDIT: The best counterargument to convince me that I'm wrong would be to cite a case of a game that has been developed from Kickstarter that is a good game, and that I should buy to play NOW.
@Shandyr, yes, and I already spent $20 dollars to gamble on BG:EE. I do not have the means to pay for another gaming software pipe dream at this time. If Beamdog actually turns out to be no better than Kickstarter, well, first of all, I give them kudos for being much more clever in their marketing than if they had put their project on Kickstarter. And then, I will wait and see if I actually get the software I paid for by Christmas. And then, I will see if I think it is worth what I paid.
If it is, I will perhaps become much less skeptical of this "new" game-marketing strategy. I really can't afford to "gamble" my limited resources on mere ideas of games I *might* like.
@Shandyr, well, it did get me excited when I first read about it, because it looked like something I would really like. And then, the infamous *delay* happened with the forum namesake, which is what brought us all here.
I suppose that that experience has sharpened my skepticism about "promises, promises" aimed at our cozy little niche market.
@Shandyr, yes, and I already spent $20 dollars to gamble on BG:EE. I do not have the means to pay for another gaming software pipe dream at this time. If Beamdog actually turns out to be no better than Kickstarter, well, first of all, I give them kudos for being much more clever in their marketing than if they had put their project on Kickstarter. And then, I will wait and see if I actually get the software I paid for by Christmas. And then, I will see if I think it is worth what I paid.
If it is, I will perhaps become much less skeptical of this "new" game-marketing strategy. I really can't afford to "gamble" my limited resources on mere ideas of games I *might* like.
You seem to be assuming there are only two outcomes; scam and success. I think you should be more concerned with these projects biting off more than they can chew. Both Beamdog and Obsidian seem completely trustworthy, these guys have well earned reps as pros. But anyone can underestimate the difficulty of a big complex project. I see three likely scenarios; a late game, a disappointing game, or an awesome game. Hoping for the third option, but will be fine with first.
I think that the most likely outcome is that the game will be late, but will be good if they don't implement all the action RPG stuff people are requesting on their boards.
Personally, I disagree with the concept of message boards being endorsed by a large development firm. It frequently gets too big too quickly, which works against the initial intent to increase communication with the fans.
You can even see something similar starting to happen here; as more people find their way to the site, and more threads get duplicated by people who don't have time to go trawling through the archives to see if their question has already been answered, the people who created the site in the first place lose their interest in interacting directly with the members of the community. You'll still see some level of involvement, but because there is a higher volume of posts from fans, the same level of response will always feel "too small" in comparison.
For a relatively small start-up like Beamdog, that's less of an issue. But for a big company like Obsidian, the forums become a dumping ground for everyone who feels like their voices won't be heard, or like only a select few voices will be heard, so there's an incentive to tear down opposing ideas because they take away "attention resources" from older, more well-established ideas.
The stronger communities will be the ones that start up independently, run by people who truly care about maintaining the community itself, and those are the communities that developers are more likely to listen to, because the discourse tends to be friendlier.
The Obsidian Forum is a very evil evil place *shudder*
If you ever thought there was a thread here on this forum, where people are rude insulting or aggressiv, I tell you that's nothing in comparison to the Obsidian Forum, which is why I will ignore/avoid it from now on.
They discuss ideas and there are a lot of people who think they HAVE TO insult somebody whose idea they don't like in order to show the developers that this is not a good idea...
Of course this is the case - this is the internet where every business organization is viewed as the evil empire incarnate and 90% of the anonymous forum members either knows exactly what is wrong with everything in the universe and how to fix it or at the very least they know infinitely more than any of the bozos involved in actually creating the products or services the forums represent.
They are also mostly aware that even if they know nothing at all the louder and more often they spout their nonsense the better chance they have of convincing someone to implement or unimplement whatever it is they are whining about and even if that doesn't occur they have nothing to lose by tying up the forums with their BS anyway.
Comments
... and if they keep tiers up until January, I'm going to upgrade to the $250 tier and get ahold of that supernifty Collector's Book Hardcover (not to mention Wasteland 2).
I clicked on your moon hoax link. On the one hand some of it's pretty hilarious; one post describes the guy performing an "experiment" where he just throws half a dozen pieces of junk in the direction of the moon and conludes that it must not exist because the items all fail to hit it. On the other hand, knowing that in all likelihood this guy is completely serious makes me not want to live on this planet anymore.
Also, I'm pretty sure @Aosaw was kidding.
Does this still have anything to do with Project Eternity?
And then, I started reading between the lines, and started to smell vaporware. Very expensive vaporware. I've already paid for a mere "idea" of software, when I pre-ordered BG:EE, and then, sure enough, look where we all are now.
So, my attitude toward anything on Kickstart has become, "Produce something first, then sell me on it. I will be very grateful, if it's good, toward you and toward all the people who had enough money-to-burn to finance your production of this, which has turned out to be a treasured game of mine."
Could someone summarize for me and remind me why we should be excited about the possibility of Eternity? If it's supposed to be like Skyrim, I'm not very interested. If it's supposed to be like BG or Neverwinter Nights, then, I might be interested.
I assume that everyone who pays money on Kickstart has to sign off on some kind of "I am fully aware I might be burning money and expect nothing in return" legal agreement, right?
Those are "weasel" words if I"ve ever seen them. If you pay twenty, forty, or one hundred dollars today to a production team who has very openly told you that it will be at least two years before what you've paid for has a *chance* to see the light of day, would *you* try to get a lawyer and sue for your one hundred dollars, two or more years after you paid it?
Sorry, friends, but my skeptical "scam/con" warning lights are flashing like a Christmas tree.
EDIT: The best counterargument to convince me that I'm wrong would be to cite a case of a game that has been developed from Kickstarter that is a good game, and that I should buy to play NOW.
If it is, I will perhaps become much less skeptical of this "new" game-marketing strategy. I really can't afford to "gamble" my limited resources on mere ideas of games I *might* like.
I suppose that that experience has sharpened my skepticism about "promises, promises" aimed at our cozy little niche market.
I see three likely scenarios; a late game, a disappointing game, or an awesome game.
Hoping for the third option, but will be fine with first.
You can even see something similar starting to happen here; as more people find their way to the site, and more threads get duplicated by people who don't have time to go trawling through the archives to see if their question has already been answered, the people who created the site in the first place lose their interest in interacting directly with the members of the community. You'll still see some level of involvement, but because there is a higher volume of posts from fans, the same level of response will always feel "too small" in comparison.
For a relatively small start-up like Beamdog, that's less of an issue. But for a big company like Obsidian, the forums become a dumping ground for everyone who feels like their voices won't be heard, or like only a select few voices will be heard, so there's an incentive to tear down opposing ideas because they take away "attention resources" from older, more well-established ideas.
The stronger communities will be the ones that start up independently, run by people who truly care about maintaining the community itself, and those are the communities that developers are more likely to listen to, because the discourse tends to be friendlier.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/10/19/money-troubles-what-happens-when-kickstarters-fail/
They are also mostly aware that even if they know nothing at all the louder and more often they spout their nonsense the better chance they have of convincing someone to implement or unimplement whatever it is they are whining about and even if that doesn't occur they have nothing to lose by tying up the forums with their BS anyway.
Ain't technology grand?