instead of focusing on story and gameplay, devs will be focusing on making boring politically correct stuff and implementing black disabled deaf NPCs. And who the f*ck wants to play that.
Way to miss the point, bro. I was talking about the fan reaction, it had nothing to do with the game.
And...are you part of the development team? Do you know the reason why they decided to add the romance? Do you actually think it's because they are catering to being PC or that it just was something the developers thought about when they were designing the character?
No offense, but it sounds like you're hiding your own personal problem with homosexuality under the guise of "the developers are too PC". Unless you KNOW the story writers personally and why the character was given a same-sex romance option, you're not on any ground to assume that they did it because "they were caving in to people whining about discrimination".
In any case, it's in the game already. Don't like it, don't pursue the option.
ye ye, anyone who doesnt want to see X is quite obviously in said X, but "hidden". Totally makes sense. I better go and chop my legs off before NPCs in wheelchairs starts arriving. (no offence against them, its the ones who think they are entitled to be anywhere who are annoying)
I'm surprised they aren't implementing more male romances for female PCs in BG2, having only one was kind of sad for the lady PC.
With regards to gay/lesbian romances, implementing one just for the sake of doing it is a poor reason to do so; it should come from writing and creating the character. However, being against a specific type of romance because you would never pursue it is hilariously egotistical. The game creators will do as they please, so live and let live. It doesn't affect your being and relationships, unless you're very insecure about your masculine heterosexual existence.
And to those previously inferring homosexuality being equivalent to bestiality and pedophiles, just stop. Your homophobia is blatant and not in the good spirit of this project and game. Go spew your ignorance to your close friends and family, hopefully none of which are LGBT.
@Tanthalas - @Shandyr was trying to tag you a couple of posts above but there is an extra space in it, so here's the working tag.
That said, I'd prefer a cleanup of the silliness like in the post by @Roller12 just above, and the "close watch" that Shandyr was requesting. I hate it if all threads about romances need to be closed because trollers will troll.
Fact is that there will be at least three possible LIs in BGEE (three at launch, possibly more as DLC and let's not go into mods). At least one of those romances will be available regardless of CHARNAME's gender. We suspect it's one of the male LIs because that's what the devs implied in the AMAA.
Why there is a "bisexual" LI we don't know. The devs wanted to add one, perhaps to provide for the gamers who would enjoy such content, perhaps due to their own views on equality, perhaps because they simply were interested in writing that character that way.
Judging by the way romances work in BG2, it's likely that a romance is simple and quick to nip in the bud if one has no interest in playing that content. All romances. I think it highly unlikely that the devs would use BGEE as a podium for any blatant political/cultural agenda. So we're all probably safe there
@Adul Don't lose hope. This community is not one entity, and there is no hegemony here. Topics tend to attract a great variance of viewpoints, but often the conversations contain awesome things among the buzz. One has to accept that opinions get challenged, but the conversations can get incredibly fruitful.
Call me a hypocrite, but I wouldn't mind a gay npc at all. Have any of you read Scott Pilgrim comic books? Someone like Wallace would be an awesome addition to the party with his wisecracks and different outlook on life.
What I'm against is the romance with that npc.
For starters Forgotten Realms is not a really good setting for something like that. How many openly gay characters have you seen in any of the infinity games? And it so happens that your pc and one of your npcs are the only two across entire Sword Coast. Some meating of fate that is.
Speaking of which. What's so different about gay people? Do they not watch romantic movies like anybody else? They sure can sympathize with a heterosexual couple. So why not play a female pc if you want to romance a male? I think that opiton fullfils that need since normally when a man plays female pc he won't be chasing male romances.
For starters Forgotten Realms is not a really good setting for something like that. How many openly gay characters have you seen in any of the infinity games? And it so happens that your pc and one of your npcs are the only two across entire Sword Coast. Some meating of fate that is.
We have no idea what the sexual identity of most characters in IE games is, since it's not relevant in the game and thus isn't addressed. As for fate, heh, in BG of all games it would hardly be a leap ^_^
Your post touches another issue. I'd also love to see friendship relationships. Not only CHARNAME acting as a therapist for yet another traumatized companion but proper friendships growing over shared adventuring. As a sidenote, I'd like to see a friendship grow within the romance path as well.
Nothing wrong with there being an option for a gay romance. I think most of us can agree that as long as it done with the character in mind rather than to tick a box then its fine. As with any romanceable character in a game.
Personally I just enjoy NPC interactions, romances tend to have the most depth of all NPC interactions and therefore satisfy this requirement quite admirably. I'll be interested to see how they write the new characters and whether they have comparable depth if they are romanced or not.
Also: nice work to everyone who is not being a troll.
@WonKo It is probably out faults the trolls are still here, no one memorised any Flame or Melfs Acid Arrows! They just keep bloody regenerating! I'm off to search some barrels for some magical arrows ...
Well, I'd hoped you'd reevaluate your opinion on the need for equality, since you can still be against discrimination even when it doesn't apply to you specifically. But...
also, why dont you support it for every game ever? is there something wrong with that? you spoke of equality (which extends beyond just this game) so why shouldn't every game have an asian character for the purposes of equality? mind you, i think its a silly idea to have asians everywhere, but its equally silly to use the word equality as a free pass. furthermore Im arguing on concept, not on magnitude. If the nature of an standard/argument is fundamentally flawed, be it 1 game or 1 million games, wouldnt make it any more or less justifiable.
What you don't seem to understand is that concept and magnitude are linked here: why do people want more gay characters? Because there aren't enough gay characters. If there were, if representation wasn't below the most basic minimum, it wouldn't be an issue.
It doesn't help that every time one gay character is introduced into something like Baldur's Gate or Mass Effect, people like you are immediately up in arms about the mere fact of their existence. You don't even know anything about how this romance will work, but you're already protesting it.
secondly, im not saying "durr huur fegets ruinin mah game" im saying that 1. when people put it in for "equality" it tends to ends up crap or just ruin what was there (my asians in the A team example, or ribbons on davids ass)
I don't even want to know what that last example means. But to address your larger point: what you're talking about is tokenism. That is, the addition of a character whose racial or sexual "Otherness" is the sole reason for his existence. And I actually agree with you that tokenism is bad, because it compresses characters into stereotypes for easy consumption.
Here's the thing, though: that's not true of Dorn or Rasaad. Just based on the information we've already seen, they have entire backstories and agendas that have nothing to do with the fact that they might be into other dudes. They're not defined by their sexuality except for people who are having kneejerk reactions to the mere possibility of a gay character in "their" games.
In other words, you are viewing these characters as tokenism as a way to justify your discomfort with the concept. That doesn't make it true.
@Moira I don't know, looking at the recent posts I'm not convinced. Just the post 5 places above mine is so spectacularly condescending, generalizing, ignorant, and malignant that I don't see how this conversation could ever have a valid reason to exist anymore.
The main game is supposed to be aimed to please general audience. Mods allow you to chisel the game to your own liking.
I'm not actually saying that the minority should be supressed. I'm saying that the majority should be prioritized. And it's not like I'm saying the same thing in different words. The meaning is actually different.
That's why I keep on saying that a vanilla game should stick to it's roots and not follow trends of recent rpg's.
While admittedly shocking and quite disturbing, I'm beginning to find this thread quite illuminating. I suppose this may just be a quirk of geography or something, but this is probably the most I've ever been involved in such a display of eye-popping, stomach-churning homophobia amd ignorance. Is this where you people hang out?
@serialies Your statue of David analogy I'm afraid doesn't work at all. Yes, a same-sex romance would be an addition to the game, just as any romance would be an addition to the game. The new NPCs are also an addition to the game, as are class kits, the half-orc race... Need I go on? If you don't want anything at all added, then just play the original. But then that's not what you're saying. You're making a special case for same-sex romances because you don't like them.
To be honest, I was quite happy with BG without any romances. I thought all the romances in BG2 were a little shallow and unrealistic but, as they are including romances, I think it's the right decision to add a potential same-sex pairing.
I'm not actually saying that the minority should be supressed. I'm saying that the majority should be prioritized. And it's not like I'm saying the same thing in different words. The meaning is actually different.
Prioritised? You're sadly equating straight people with homophobes. Yes, the majority of people are straight, but the majority of straight people, thank goodness, are not homophobic, so their interests are not being stepped on by the inclusion of a same-sex romance.
I'm not actually saying that the minority should be supressed. I'm saying that the majority should be prioritized.
There is one bisexual character in the Baldur's Gate series out of forty-five possible party members. That's one same-sex romance to seven heterosexual romances. How is the majority you speak of being threatened or overlooked here?
Aside from gays what i really miss is bestiality and pedophilia romances. I think these minority groups deserve a place in this great game too.
I am afraid that in few years we may find these other perversions you just mentioned in computer games too. All in the name of so called "tolerance" and "equality".
What the actual f...
I'm probably going to get myself into tremendous trouble here so I'll tread as carefully as I can. It would be interesting to know what kind of beliefs or education might give rise to these kinds of outbursts, but I do wonder how easily the fact that you can play a character who prays to a pagan god in exchange for magical powers can be squared with this. Could anyone get Christine O'Donnell on the phone?
Aside from gays what i really miss is bestiality and pedophilia romances. I think these minority groups deserve a place in this great game too.
I am afraid that in few years we may find these other perversions you just mentioned in computer games too. All in the name of so called "tolerance" and "equality".
I'm afraid your churlish slippery slope argument goes both ways (probably much to your horror). By the same logic that "allowing a gay romance would necessitate including ALL kinds of romances", if we start actively removing/censoring gay characters pretty soon we'll have to start removing straight romances... and then character banters... and then dialogue... and then all content whatsoever in the game. It's an inevitable consequence.
also, why dont you support it for every game ever? is there something wrong with that? you spoke of equality (which extends beyond just this game) so why shouldn't every game have an asian character for the purposes of equality? mind you, i think its a silly idea to have asians everywhere, but its equally silly to use the word equality as a free pass.
I don't think that "there are other groups that aren't represented" is a good argument to justify why another group shouldn't be represented.
Comments
And...are you part of the development team? Do you know the reason why they decided to add the romance? Do you actually think it's because they are catering to being PC or that it just was something the developers thought about when they were designing the character?
No offense, but it sounds like you're hiding your own personal problem with homosexuality under the guise of "the developers are too PC". Unless you KNOW the story writers personally and why the character was given a same-sex romance option, you're not on any ground to assume that they did it because "they were caving in to people whining about discrimination".
In any case, it's in the game already. Don't like it, don't pursue the option.
With regards to gay/lesbian romances, implementing one just for the sake of doing it is a poor reason to do so; it should come from writing and creating the character. However, being against a specific type of romance because you would never pursue it is hilariously egotistical. The game creators will do as they please, so live and let live. It doesn't affect your being and relationships, unless you're very insecure about your masculine heterosexual existence.
And to those previously inferring homosexuality being equivalent to bestiality and pedophiles, just stop. Your homophobia is blatant and not in the good spirit of this project and game. Go spew your ignorance to your close friends and family, hopefully none of which are LGBT.
That said, I'd prefer a cleanup of the silliness like in the post by @Roller12 just above, and the "close watch" that Shandyr was requesting. I hate it if all threads about romances need to be closed because trollers will troll.
Why there is a "bisexual" LI we don't know. The devs wanted to add one, perhaps to provide for the gamers who would enjoy such content, perhaps due to their own views on equality, perhaps because they simply were interested in writing that character that way.
Judging by the way romances work in BG2, it's likely that a romance is simple and quick to nip in the bud if one has no interest in playing that content. All romances. I think it highly unlikely that the devs would use BGEE as a podium for any blatant political/cultural agenda. So we're all probably safe there
@Adul Don't lose hope. This community is not one entity, and there is no hegemony here. Topics tend to attract a great variance of viewpoints, but often the conversations contain awesome things among the buzz. One has to accept that opinions get challenged, but the conversations can get incredibly fruitful.
Have any of you read Scott Pilgrim comic books? Someone like Wallace would be an awesome addition to the party with his wisecracks and different outlook on life.
What I'm against is the romance with that npc.
For starters Forgotten Realms is not a really good setting for something like that. How many openly gay characters have you seen in any of the infinity games? And it so happens that your pc and one of your npcs are the only two across entire Sword Coast. Some meating of fate that is.
Speaking of which. What's so different about gay people? Do they not watch romantic movies like anybody else? They sure can sympathize with a heterosexual couple. So why not play a female pc if you want to romance a male? I think that opiton fullfils that need since normally when a man plays female pc he won't be chasing male romances.
Your post touches another issue. I'd also love to see friendship relationships. Not only CHARNAME acting as a therapist for yet another traumatized companion but proper friendships growing over shared adventuring. As a sidenote, I'd like to see a friendship grow within the romance path as well.
Personally I just enjoy NPC interactions, romances tend to have the most depth of all NPC interactions and therefore satisfy this requirement quite admirably. I'll be interested to see how they write the new characters and whether they have comparable depth if they are romanced or not.
Also: nice work to everyone who is not being a troll.
It is probably out faults the trolls are still here, no one memorised any Flame or Melfs Acid Arrows! They just keep bloody regenerating!
I'm off to search some barrels for some magical arrows ...
It doesn't help that every time one gay character is introduced into something like Baldur's Gate or Mass Effect, people like you are immediately up in arms about the mere fact of their existence. You don't even know anything about how this romance will work, but you're already protesting it. I don't even want to know what that last example means. But to address your larger point: what you're talking about is tokenism. That is, the addition of a character whose racial or sexual "Otherness" is the sole reason for his existence. And I actually agree with you that tokenism is bad, because it compresses characters into stereotypes for easy consumption.
Here's the thing, though: that's not true of Dorn or Rasaad. Just based on the information we've already seen, they have entire backstories and agendas that have nothing to do with the fact that they might be into other dudes. They're not defined by their sexuality except for people who are having kneejerk reactions to the mere possibility of a gay character in "their" games.
In other words, you are viewing these characters as tokenism as a way to justify your discomfort with the concept. That doesn't make it true.
also, it's hardly being implemented into 'every possible nook'n'cranny'..
The main game is supposed to be aimed to please general audience.
Mods allow you to chisel the game to your own liking.
I'm not actually saying that the minority should be supressed. I'm saying that the majority should be prioritized. And it's not like I'm saying the same thing in different words. The meaning is actually different.
That's why I keep on saying that a vanilla game should stick to it's roots and not follow trends of recent rpg's.
@serialies Your statue of David analogy I'm afraid doesn't work at all. Yes, a same-sex romance would be an addition to the game, just as any romance would be an addition to the game. The new NPCs are also an addition to the game, as are class kits, the half-orc race... Need I go on? If you don't want anything at all added, then just play the original. But then that's not what you're saying. You're making a special case for same-sex romances because you don't like them.
To be honest, I was quite happy with BG without any romances. I thought all the romances in BG2 were a little shallow and unrealistic but, as they are including romances, I think it's the right decision to add a potential same-sex pairing.
Some laughs?
I'm probably going to get myself into tremendous trouble here so I'll tread as carefully as I can. It would be interesting to know what kind of beliefs or education might give rise to these kinds of outbursts, but I do wonder how easily the fact that you can play a character who prays to a pagan god in exchange for magical powers can be squared with this. Could anyone get Christine O'Donnell on the phone?