@Gilad: Consider that a life lesson - blind hatred and intolerance tend to be less popular/accepted than mutual respect and understanding. If all you have to offer is the former, don't be surprised when you don't get the latter.
Well, from my experience it is often the other way around - blind hatred tend to be more popular/accepted. The least popular is usually the truth :-) Oh, and I am not surprised at all, nothing unexpected happened :-)
@neur0 can you link me to a scientific research paper/study that offers unbiased facts? wiki is nice but it's not what i would call proof of anything.
and sorry if you guys think i'm a bigot, but this is based off my life experiences and the gay friends i've had. And with them, i told them that i'm gay/bi, they understood and respected that. we discussed it and they have all told me that it is a choice, and they all know the moment when they turned gay. Only one person ever said she was born that way, but she also later told me that she never felt attracted to any females until she got out of an abusive, very bad relationship with a man.
So i have politicians telling me people are born that way, and LGT group saying the same, each with their own agenda, and out of the 12~15 people who are lesbian/gay/bi, all but one told me that it's a choice.
@Bjjorick Oh great i will tell that she have choose to be rejected, and rediculed by everyone at school. Seriously would like to see thouse scientific evidence you mentions... You will tell me that the evidence of homosexual behavior in the animal kingdom are choices too?
lol, an animal will sleep with anything that moves, will eat anything it can find/it's master give it. Are animals and humans the same?
Edit: @Gilad People get killed for telling the truth, but liars are always popular. I'm with you man.
@Bjjorick coming out and having a partner and/or practicing sex is a choice, not a sexual orientation. hordes of your LGBT friends you mention probably described to you a moment when they realized they are gay, as in consciously accepting/realizing the fact about themselves, not the moment they decided today they want some c***/pu***. before you react, yes, i allow myself a privilege to explain to you your own experiences, since i'm gay and you are not, and you seem to explain to LGBT community their own identity.
also, i seriously doubt the sexuality of anyone saying being gay is a choice. i feel no danger i could wake up some day and decide i will have sex with a woman, since the thought does not excite me. you have to be bisexual at least to feel an attraction but not acting on it, thus explaining it into thinking you made a choice in the matter (which in this case would be true), and in the end to have balls to go tell it to the LGBT people themselves.
oh, and if personal experience is all that matters, then me and my 20 LGBT friends, and even more acquaintances testify that it is not a choice. goody!
@neur0 can you link me to a scientific research paper/study that offers unbiased facts? wiki is nice but it's not what i would call proof of anything.
and sorry if you guys think i'm a bigot, but this is based off my life experiences and the gay friends i've had. And with them, i told them that i'm gay/bi, they understood and respected that. we discussed it and they have all told me that it is a choice, and they all know the moment when they turned gay. Only one person ever said she was born that way, but she also later told me that she never felt attracted to any females until she got out of an abusive, very bad relationship with a man.
So i have politicians telling me people are born that way, and LGT group saying the same, each with their own agenda, and out of the 12~15 people who are lesbian/gay/bi, all but one told me that it's a choice.
Who would you believe?
It's not a matter of belief. As Neil deGrasse Tyson said: “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
The Wikipedia article has references (as I noted in my post) and here is an interesting link to a news article about the study of accuracy of information in Wikipedia: Link
As for your question: Yes, humans and animals are the same. We are a species called Homo Sapiens in the "Animalia" kindom (order: Primates).
If you don't want to be accused of homophobia, stop making homophobic comments.
Sure thing McCarthy Seems like no matter what I say its now automatically homophobia. why bother? go on, quote me on one homophobic comment. as for all your critcisms? i already previously addressed those points in my previous posts. cbf repeating myself.
@neur0 can you link me to a scientific research paper/study that offers unbiased facts? wiki is nice but it's not what i would call proof of anything.
and sorry if you guys think i'm a bigot, but this is based off my life experiences and the gay friends i've had. And with them, i told them that i'm gay/bi, they understood and respected that. we discussed it and they have all told me that it is a choice, and they all know the moment when they turned gay. Only one person ever said she was born that way, but she also later told me that she never felt attracted to any females until she got out of an abusive, very bad relationship with a man.
So i have politicians telling me people are born that way, and LGT group saying the same, each with their own agenda, and out of the 12~15 people who are lesbian/gay/bi, all but one told me that it's a choice.
Who would you believe?
You seem to be assuming that there are only two possible explanations: genetic predetermination or free choice. The suggestion that people make an informed, free choice to be homosexual is totally mad. Do you feel that you could make that same choice? Most non-genetic explanations point toward early environmental factors such as pre and post natal developmental hormones and formative life experiences.
This is all beside the point anyway, even if hmosexuality were a free and informed lifestyle choice that doesn't mean it ought not to be portrayed in a computer game.
ahh, so you believe in destiny? Not by the hands of a god/gods, but at the hands of biology/nature. Hmmmm, nice, a person who makes a choice to be homosexual is totally mad?
And can i say ONCE MORE, that i never said i had an issue with homo/hetero in video games, i said that it bothers me WHEN EVERY NPC is homosexual. Like DA2. And the reasons that games are so popular is because the borrow the rules set into place IRL and change only small parts of it. Otherwise, why is gravity in games? What do they try to make sure that guns fire bullets instead of cows? Or milk? It doesn't matter if a gun fires milk in a game, it can still go off with the force of a 100 megaton nuclear explosion. It's a game, it can do what it wants.
Suspension of disbelief. Make it close to real, and add.....magic. And goblins and orcs. But make them act like people expect they would act, make magic work like you would expect it to act. make it real fantasy.
Now, if you're on a planet with no genders, like the asari, then yeah, chars that look like males with other males and vice versa, that's fine. It follows the way taht planet grew over the ages. But when every char turns gay/bi for the pc because he's just that awesome? oy.
And the reasons that games are so popular is because the borrow the rules set into place IRL and change only small parts of it. Otherwise, why is gravity in games? What do they try to make sure that guns fire bullets instead of cows? Or milk? It doesn't matter if a gun fires milk in a game, it can still go off with the force of a 100 megaton nuclear explosion. It's a game, it can do what it wants.
:roll: depends of the game... Ever have played Mario Galaxie?
I said that your belief that it's a free choice is totally mad. Tell me, seriously, could you or any other straight person right now make the decision to be gay?
Of course, if you think that the sex of one's preferred partner is free choice then even less reason to object to characters in video games making that choice.
@salieri yeah i could make that choice and i have seen friends do it after getting hurt alot by the opposite gender. Funny how it's impossible to be that way, and i something think people say you're born that way as a way to exclude new members. You were happily married for 20 years, got your heart ripped to shreds, and turned gay? Noooo, you were BORN THAT WAY. I could be wrong, but i'm free to my opinion.
@talvrae been meaning to, but last mario i played was mario 64. i liked it but the 3d is hard to get into on platforming games, and when mario sunshine was put down by everyone i know who played it, and i didn't get a gamecube until the zelda 4 cd release (i missed majora's mask, wanted to play it bad), i kinda forget to get into it. Plus, mario always came with the system until gamecube. Maybe that's why i stopped playing them.
@salieri yeah i could make that choice and i have seen friends do it after getting hurt alot by the opposite gender. Funny how it's impossible to be that way, and i something think people say you're born that way as a way to exclude new members. You were happily married for 20 years, got your heart ripped to shreds, and turned gay? Noooo, you were BORN THAT WAY. I could be wrong, but i'm free to my opinion
Not really a matter of opinion though, is it? You're simply mistaken about the way that sexual orientation operates.
Well excuse me now but i have to defend a huge minority that's been heavly attacked here, EDI, as in mass effect she's one of the few AIs in existence.
Mass Effect serie, besides the crap gay romance in ME3, brings the prejudice by an entire new view when they work sexual relations between different races as Humans and Asaries, Krogans and Asaries, Turians and Quarians and etc...
Mass Effect 3 make a nice relationship evaluation of Joker's relation with EDI. She's not organic alive but she's have an awareness of her own. She see herself as a female and develop her own method of experience feelings. Mass effect explre the fact that from a organic perspective it's impossible to evaluate or understand the synthetic awareness.
While she is stated clearly as a conscious being, many forum members discard her as a being. So to anyone trying to defend gay content in BG and portraying EDI as junk, barbie doll or object, i have to say that you're doing this wrong and it's time to evaluate better your arguments.
ME serie despite it's failure in conclude the last title, worked the prejudice point of view very well, the climate there wasn't presented artificial, pretty much as Zvertan in DA:O. I don't think the initial content from any of the 3 new NPCs intended to address a gay relationship (while in my opinion Neera could work well with a last minute bi romance) unlike ME or DA:O. It's done now but i truly hope they didn't did it to fill a quota or the romance will probally disapoint most of the players in the end if somehow it feels too much artificial.
Now another point, want or not a gay content doesn't matter now as Overhaul already stated that will exist a bissexual romance in the game, just hope it to be well made and not a last minute job. I doubt that i would try it (except in Neera's case, yes maybe it's sexist but so what it's my personal opinion and particular gameplay, therefore not open to discussion), but many here will and the general evaluation of the character can be harmed by a poor work in a last minute romance (one day romance? As the one day mods NPCs?).
There is gay people in FR... For Starter Elminster is bi and his scribe is gay @Bjjorick they won't make every character gay, bi, they put one bi character...
While it is true that there are gay people in the realms, I'm not sure about Elminster and Leo.
The only instance I remember of it being implied that Elminster was bi was when there was rumors of him being in a relationship with Leo. The truth was that those were merely rumours that Elminster made no effort to dispel because Leo was the heir to some kind of realm (I think) and that disguise helped hide Leo from his enemies. In fact, Leo actually had a fling with Storm if I'm not mistaken.
Regardless, just the fact that people rumoured that Elminster and Leo were in a relationship already proves that homosexuality exists in the Realms.
@salieri yeah i could make that choice and i have seen friends do it after getting hurt alot by the opposite gender. Funny how it's impossible to be that way, and i something think people say you're born that way as a way to exclude new members. You were happily married for 20 years, got your heart ripped to shreds, and turned gay? Noooo, you were BORN THAT WAY. I could be wrong, but i'm free to my opinion
Not really a matter of opinion though, is it? You're simply mistaken about the way that sexual orientation operates.
well since i apparently don't have a sexual orientation, i know nothing about the subject, right? I'm done with this discussion, i don't mind admitting that you have points that are valid, but everything i say about it is wrong because i'm straight. Apparently homo's are animals in the primate kingdom and .....oy, not sure where this going, but i don't want to be offensive so i'm going to drop it and leave the board.
so i was born straight? hmmm, does that mean nature decided it wanted me to reproduce and....
lol, bye ya'll. will try to find a non gaming board to discuss this issue further. i don't want to take away from the game, nor do i want to get banned. good luck and God bless all
@Bjjorick Yup, because I chose to live a life of oppression and second-class citizenship, to disappoint my parents' cultural expectations, and to have to fight for my civil rights. We all choose this life because we really just hate ourselves, but can choose to switch back to heterosexuality in case we get bored. Because it totally works like that.
Romances in BG and similar games are optional. Don't want to romance the character? Select the "Sorry, I'm not interested." It's not forcing it down your throat, choose to pursue or not. The dialogue isn't likely to change much between the two scenarios anyway.
yep, and i choose to marry a female from the philippines despite the fact that it's been 5 years in trying to get her here, and there have been alot of hardships. I could easily choose to marry someone here, and this is but one example of many where i choose a harder path. Why?
saying that it's not a choice because you face hardships is not an answer. it makes you stronger then the hardships you face, but it's still a choice that you make.
Comments
can you link me to a scientific research paper/study that offers unbiased facts? wiki is nice but it's not what i would call proof of anything.
and sorry if you guys think i'm a bigot, but this is based off my life experiences and the gay friends i've had. And with them, i told them that i'm gay/bi, they understood and respected that. we discussed it and they have all told me that it is a choice, and they all know the moment when they turned gay. Only one person ever said she was born that way, but she also later told me that she never felt attracted to any females until she got out of an abusive, very bad relationship with a man.
So i have politicians telling me people are born that way, and LGT group saying the same, each with their own agenda, and out of the 12~15 people who are lesbian/gay/bi, all but one told me that it's a choice.
Who would you believe?
Edit: @Gilad People get killed for telling the truth, but liars are always popular. I'm with you man.
hordes of your LGBT friends you mention probably described to you a moment when they realized they are gay, as in consciously accepting/realizing the fact about themselves, not the moment they decided today they want some c***/pu***. before you react, yes, i allow myself a privilege to explain to you your own experiences, since i'm gay and you are not, and you seem to explain to LGBT community their own identity.
also, i seriously doubt the sexuality of anyone saying being gay is a choice. i feel no danger i could wake up some day and decide i will have sex with a woman, since the thought does not excite me. you have to be bisexual at least to feel an attraction but not acting on it, thus explaining it into thinking you made a choice in the matter (which in this case would be true), and in the end to have balls to go tell it to the LGBT people themselves.
oh, and if personal experience is all that matters, then me and my 20 LGBT friends, and even more acquaintances testify that it is not a choice. goody!
As Neil deGrasse Tyson said: “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
The Wikipedia article has references (as I noted in my post) and here is an interesting link to a news article about the study of accuracy of information in Wikipedia: Link
As for your question: Yes, humans and animals are the same. We are a species called Homo Sapiens in the "Animalia" kindom (order: Primates).
Seems like no matter what I say its now automatically homophobia. why bother?
go on, quote me on one homophobic comment.
as for all your critcisms? i already previously addressed those points in my previous posts. cbf repeating myself.
Agree to disagree
This is all beside the point anyway, even if hmosexuality were a free and informed lifestyle choice that doesn't mean it ought not to be portrayed in a computer game.
ahh, so you believe in destiny? Not by the hands of a god/gods, but at the hands of biology/nature. Hmmmm, nice, a person who makes a choice to be homosexual is totally mad?
And can i say ONCE MORE, that i never said i had an issue with homo/hetero in video games, i said that it bothers me WHEN EVERY NPC is homosexual. Like DA2. And the reasons that games are so popular is because the borrow the rules set into place IRL and change only small parts of it. Otherwise, why is gravity in games? What do they try to make sure that guns fire bullets instead of cows? Or milk? It doesn't matter if a gun fires milk in a game, it can still go off with the force of a 100 megaton nuclear explosion. It's a game, it can do what it wants.
Suspension of disbelief. Make it close to real, and add.....magic. And goblins and orcs. But make them act like people expect they would act, make magic work like you would expect it to act. make it real fantasy.
Now, if you're on a planet with no genders, like the asari, then yeah, chars that look like males with other males and vice versa, that's fine. It follows the way taht planet grew over the ages. But when every char turns gay/bi for the pc because he's just that awesome? oy.
Of course, if you think that the sex of one's preferred partner is free choice then even less reason to object to characters in video games making that choice.
@talvrae
been meaning to, but last mario i played was mario 64. i liked it but the 3d is hard to get into on platforming games, and when mario sunshine was put down by everyone i know who played it, and i didn't get a gamecube until the zelda 4 cd release (i missed majora's mask, wanted to play it bad), i kinda forget to get into it. Plus, mario always came with the system until gamecube. Maybe that's why i stopped playing them.
Mass Effect serie, besides the crap gay romance in ME3, brings the prejudice by an entire new view when they work sexual relations between different races as Humans and Asaries, Krogans and Asaries, Turians and Quarians and etc...
Mass Effect 3 make a nice relationship evaluation of Joker's relation with EDI. She's not organic alive but she's have an awareness of her own. She see herself as a female and develop her own method of experience feelings. Mass effect explre the fact that from a organic perspective it's impossible to evaluate or understand the synthetic awareness.
While she is stated clearly as a conscious being, many forum members discard her as a being. So to anyone trying to defend gay content in BG and portraying EDI as junk, barbie doll or object, i have to say that you're doing this wrong and it's time to evaluate better your arguments.
ME serie despite it's failure in conclude the last title, worked the prejudice point of view very well, the climate there wasn't presented artificial, pretty much as Zvertan in DA:O. I don't think the initial content from any of the 3 new NPCs intended to address a gay relationship (while in my opinion Neera could work well with a last minute bi romance) unlike ME or DA:O. It's done now but i truly hope they didn't did it to fill a quota or the romance will probally disapoint most of the players in the end if somehow it feels too much artificial.
Now another point, want or not a gay content doesn't matter now as Overhaul already stated that will exist a bissexual romance in the game, just hope it to be well made and not a last minute job. I doubt that i would try it (except in Neera's case, yes maybe it's sexist but so what it's my personal opinion and particular gameplay, therefore not open to discussion), but many here will and the general evaluation of the character can be harmed by a poor work in a last minute romance (one day romance? As the one day mods NPCs?).
The only instance I remember of it being implied that Elminster was bi was when there was rumors of him being in a relationship with Leo. The truth was that those were merely rumours that Elminster made no effort to dispel because Leo was the heir to some kind of realm (I think) and that disguise helped hide Leo from his enemies. In fact, Leo actually had a fling with Storm if I'm not mistaken.
Regardless, just the fact that people rumoured that Elminster and Leo were in a relationship already proves that homosexuality exists in the Realms.
so i was born straight? hmmm, does that mean nature decided it wanted me to reproduce and....
lol, bye ya'll. will try to find a non gaming board to discuss this issue further. i don't want to take away from the game, nor do i want to get banned. good luck and God bless all
Romances in BG and similar games are optional. Don't want to romance the character? Select the "Sorry, I'm not interested." It's not forcing it down your throat, choose to pursue or not. The dialogue isn't likely to change much between the two scenarios anyway.
yep, and i choose to marry a female from the philippines despite the fact that it's been 5 years in trying to get her here, and there have been alot of hardships. I could easily choose to marry someone here, and this is but one example of many where i choose a harder path. Why?
saying that it's not a choice because you face hardships is not an answer. it makes you stronger then the hardships you face, but it's still a choice that you make.
@etb you're strong. that's not a bad thing.
Yes it did.
Girdle of Masculinity/Feminity anyone?