I still think a toggle choosing sexuality at character creation would make it easier...then you get the romances you want queued up. I am sorry that people want to turn something so simple into a political point to get upset about. But the culture's attitudes towards Gays and Lesbians worldwide is shifting towards greater acceptance for the better, and they deserve and adult conversation about this sort of thing, not a bunch of trolling and fighting.
@Mornmagor, @LadyRhian It's not the size of the family, but the fact that the more biological older brothers a man has, the more likely he is to be gay, even he's adopted. Being raised with lots of non-biological brothers doesn't make a difference. This has been found in several countries and applies even to male-to-female transsexuals, i.e. MtFs with more older brothers are more likely to be attracted to men than MtFs with fewer.
The most likely explanation is the antibodies produced by a mother's body when she's carrying a male baby. His male hormones trigger a "foreign object" response from her immune system, which affects his prenatal brain development. This effect compounds with every boy a woman has. Conversely, female babies are recognized as part of the mother's body, which explains why older sisters have no effect and why no birth order correlation has been found for lesbians.
@Mornmagor, I just want to add that the difference in testosterone and estrogen levels in men and women is more like an order of magnitude. There's no way a gay man would naturally have anywhere near female levels of estrogen unless he was born a woman. It is indeed complicated.
why close it? i would rather see a thread dedicated to gay romance option, where people can discuss it directly instead of people arguing over it in EVERY TOPIC about romances. the OP asked a question and got an answer. good.
people are still discussing it obviously since, let's face it, more people support the gay romance option then not. the problem is, it is hard to maintain discussion if you say "i would like to have a gay romance in a game" and get a "yo dude, that's disgusting!" response. i bet people would mostly be all giddy and cheer on my blackguard character if i requested "pilfer homes, kill civilians, sacrifice human victims to devils and demons- option". nonetheless, gay content has to be and should be requested if there are people who desire it, in the end it is developers choice. even if some people are unable to understand that that is just an option (and legitimate one, at that) in a game, option would mean a lot to a part of their audience.
anyway, discussion is still civil and i would like a place to talk about gay romances if possible. and a mean gay as a man on man, since lesbian option seems to be totally not an issue. :P
After a little bit of thinking I have a solution to the problem.
Just add a new option for the character creation process - sexual preferences. Straight, bi or gay. Choosing one or the other opens up new dialogue options. If you pick straight during character creation, no character of the same gender will try romancing you. Everyone's happy.
I want a "Sorry, not interested. No harm, no foul." Dialogue option. Because we don't come with "Straight", "Gay" or "Bisexual" tattooed on our foreheads. Makes romance more like real life anyhow, since some people want this game to be "more like real life"... In a fantasy game? Really?
@LadyRhian I know and I agree with you. (Edit: This was written before your post right above mine...but it strangely still applies!)
As for this topic, I second everything @trinit said. The discussion here has been WAY more civil than I have seen on most boards, and it would be a shame to shut it down now when constructive comments are still being made. If there's one thing I've learned from internet debates, it's that even if you believe that everyone has already made up their minds and that no one will ever get through to the other side...it's actually not true. Okay, the person you're arguing with is about as likely to change their mind right now as you are, but for the many users just reading the topic, with no ego at stake defending their points, it's much easier to take the informative and persuasive parts of both sides and silently change your opinion one way or another. I've been that lurker many times.
@KolonKu That's exactly what Fallout: New Vegas does, and it's a decent solution, but for a very character-based game like Baldur's Gate, I'd rather not. I don't like being hit on by the other gender either, and not being straight, that's going to happen a lot more often to me. But there's something unsettling about checking a box to "erase" that part of a character. I'd rather just tell them "no thanks" in the game.
The problem of many at a button distance of solution. Toggle on/off bissexual romances? I support this idea, make it optional patch/DLC otherwise people will cry a river about prejudice.
@Trinit i asked to close cos this thread as it can be anything but discussion about in game romances, it's on topic real preference romances here, a overhaul clean of posts was already made by Tanthalas and many more will be needed.
I don't get it why people want the gay/bi romance in an optional package. Is it really that hard to click the "That's alright Dorn, I don't really want to have an intimate relationship with you" option in the game?
After a little bit of thinking I have a solution to the problem.
Just add a new option for the character creation process - sexual preferences. Straight, bi or gay. Choosing one or the other opens up new dialogue options. If you pick straight during character creation, no character of the same gender will try romancing you. Everyone's happy.
And thouse who selected femelle lesbian, just shot themselve in the foot since there is no option for them.... nah keep it with dialogue options
I also want to say that as far as it goes, the way that fable (i only played the original) handled bisexuality and homosexuality was the right blend for me, or liliana in DA1. But the half elf rouge in DA1 and every char in DA2 bugged me because no matter what, every char hit on you. They way they handled it, i was expecting your sibling to start hitting on you/started to wonder if he/she was already hitting on me and i never realized it.
@Mornmagor, @LadyRhian It's not the size of the family, but the fact that the more biological older brothers a man has, the more likely he is to be gay, even he's adopted. Being raised with lots of non-biological brothers doesn't make a difference. This has been found in several countries and applies even to male-to-female transsexuals, i.e. MtFs with more older brothers are more likely to be attracted to men than MtFs with fewer.
The most likely explanation is the antibodies produced by a mother's body when she's carrying a male baby. His male hormones trigger a "foreign object" response from her immune system, which affects his prenatal brain development. This effect compounds with every boy a woman has. Conversely, female babies are recognized as part of the mother's body, which explains why older sisters have no effect and why no birth order correlation has been found for lesbians.
@Mornmagor, I just want to add that the difference in testosterone and estrogen levels in men and women is more like an order of magnitude. There's no way a gay man would naturally have anywhere near female levels of estrogen unless he was born a woman. It is indeed complicated.
@Jalily, yep, it is a lot more complicated, it is a percentage usually and if androgens decrease they should normally decrease any kind of libido on males etc, blah
There is probably something concrete out there, probably not yet, maybe sometime.
But since most of it is tied to how our brain works, and we haven't got such huge info on certain parts, we'll probably be wondering a while more ^^
I also want to say that as far as it goes, the way that fable (i only played the original) handled bisexuality and homosexuality was the right blend for me, or liliana in DA1. But the half elf rouge in DA1 and every char in DA2 bugged me because no matter what, every char hit on you. They way they handled it, i was expecting your sibling to start hitting on you/started to wonder if he/she was already hitting on me and i never realized it.
Ah right, Zevran. He is going to end up being an embarrassment in the future, especially since Bioware has proven they can approach the subject tastefully, with Cortez from ME3 and as you said, Leliana.
It is really too bad since Zevran is a pretty interesting character, but the fact that you are forced to hit on him is pretty screwy.
Hey fellas, I was thinking... why not turn this discussion into something amusing?
You can tell just from looking at this thread that there are a lot of different outlooks on the subject. So what do you think the realistic reactions of the rest of your party (based on their characters) would be when you and your npc partner come out of the closet?
For starters: Minsk will just be confused by something like this - neutral Edwin will mock you two simians and will keep trolling you the rest of the adventure - neutral anti Nalia will most likely support your love if it's true no matter the form - pro
I came in here out of curiosity because it's been referenced in a few other threads.
I just want to say one thing, and one thing only:
Straight, gay, lesbian, bi, I don't care. Romances in video games are annoying and I don't see the point. I find them shallow and sterile and they tend to amount to just pure dicking around. They annoy me because they've become such a Big Important Feature of RPGs that it's like any game that hasn't got a romance in it isn't worth playing. Bioware romances aren't too bad, I'll admit. At least they're like standard NPC interactions, just with the added mini-game of clicking the right option to get some poon-tang, but romances in games like Skyrim and Fable drive me absolutely up the wall. Yes, let's all get emotionally attached to some arbitrary cardboard NPC who's the exact same as everyone else! THAT's what I REALLY look for in my video games!
Yes, I know I'm being a grumpy old curmudgeon who's ruining other people's fun by dumping on a feature I can effortlessly avoid. No, I don't care. Go away.
I like romances, as many here do, anyone that don't like a romance at all can easly click on the option leave me alone that exist in all romances, ask to take that off because you don't feel inclined to pursue romances seems a bit arrogant.
This isn't a question of moral conflict, or something that bother you, it's just a quest that you find anoying, so help yourself with the "leave me alone" option or don't pick romanceable NPCs, cos my friend, they're not going anywhere.
@Solobear Heterosexuals don't talk about being straight to gays? Riiight. Heterosexual romance is everywhere in our culture- movies, books, television... When was the last time you saw a big movie romantic comedy starring two guys as the ones having a romance? And if a man and a woman walk down the street hand in hand or kissing, no one bats an eye. But change that to two men and all of a sudden it's "Gays being in our faces about their homosexuality!"
No matter how you feel about homosexuality, they deserve to be treated just like everyone else, not to be told to sit the f down and shut the F up just for existing. If you don't like it, don't put that character in your party- simple as that. To use your own words, keep your bigotry to yourself. Nobody wants to see it.
@Solobear Listen that was kind of rude. All I was saying is they deserve a conversation. Just because you're annoyed personally doesn't mean they don't deserve fairness as a people. How hard is it to just talk about having options in a game? As in, it's optional. You don't have to pursue those options. While I do agree with @LadyRhian about more dialog options to navigate romances and say no, in a more blunt fashion if you want to skip out. I also think that @KolonKu and I both have the right of it with a Characters sexuality being chosen at creation. This way...a player who would be annoyed and has their own views don't have to bother with these options, even by accident. And players who want them can have them. This isn't a game marketed mainly at kids, it's a remake of a classic game aimed at nostalgic adults. And yes @Solobear we should talk like adults to each other, with respect. Not indignant arrogance.
@Shandyr... mimic my words isn't a inteligent act dude... "this isn't a question of moral conflict"...? I can laught but instead i will let this opening for you to express your thoughts better instead of poorly copy another person's post.
Romance is a gender, gay romance is a specie. Until today i don't know people that are agains relationship, only kinds of relationships, but please, present me your thoughts.
@LadyRhian no matter how you see this, homossexualism isn't a natural behavior, while it's a common an acceptable behavior by society. I will surely get a thousand of flames for this post and by all means i'm not saying that being gay is wrong, it's just a patch that diverts from natural order.
Not being natural doesn't mean that isn't good, human society diverts from nature in almost everything. I would have no problem with a guy kissing another on TV, movies... but a man over another doing sex is offensive to people that don't like it and i would like to see someone explaining to a 5 year children what a guy was doing over another. The fact that the global media become obscene and violent can't justify this kind of act.
We can't destroy a thousand years culture instantly, this kind of change take time. Force this kind of change too fast can give the worst of the results, we're already on the Glee age, things are A LOT different than what happened 20 years ago, when this kind of thread would not even exist.
None taken. My post can be used to justify a gay romance in everything except on the moral conflict, and that's why we have this big word battlefield that reached already 8 pages.
1. There is nothing "unnatural" about homosexuality. It's certainly not limited to humanity. To quote the article, "homosexual behavior has been observed in close to 1,500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them".
2. Why would explaining to males having sex be any different or harder than explaining heterosexual sex? I wouldn't say having to explain sex to 5 year olds would be in any way ideal, but I don't see why would use any other words for gay sex than straight.
3. "Thousands of years of culture"? No. The world, and not just the Greco-Roman or Japanese cultures but also Christian, used to be a lot more tolerant and event acceptive of homosexuality. We have round records of gay marriages from the early Christian days, and during the Medieval ages having sex with another man was simply considered no different than having sex with a woman out of wedlock. The culture of anti-homosexuality that we are leaving behind us today are mostly not more than 400-500 years old, and nothing else.
Comments
The most likely explanation is the antibodies produced by a mother's body when she's carrying a male baby. His male hormones trigger a "foreign object" response from her immune system, which affects his prenatal brain development. This effect compounds with every boy a woman has. Conversely, female babies are recognized as part of the mother's body, which explains why older sisters have no effect and why no birth order correlation has been found for lesbians.
@Mornmagor, I just want to add that the difference in testosterone and estrogen levels in men and women is more like an order of magnitude. There's no way a gay man would naturally have anywhere near female levels of estrogen unless he was born a woman. It is indeed complicated.
the OP asked a question and got an answer. good.
people are still discussing it obviously since, let's face it, more people support the gay romance option then not.
the problem is, it is hard to maintain discussion if you say "i would like to have a gay romance in a game" and get a "yo dude, that's disgusting!" response. i bet people would mostly be all giddy and cheer on my blackguard character if i requested "pilfer homes, kill civilians, sacrifice human victims to devils and demons- option". nonetheless, gay content has to be and should be requested if there are people who desire it, in the end it is developers choice. even if some people are unable to understand that that is just an option (and legitimate one, at that) in a game, option would mean a lot to a part of their audience.
anyway, discussion is still civil and i would like a place to talk about gay romances if possible. and a mean gay as a man on man, since lesbian option seems to be totally not an issue. :P
Just add a new option for the character creation process - sexual preferences. Straight, bi or gay. Choosing one or the other opens up new dialogue options. If you pick straight during character creation, no character of the same gender will try romancing you. Everyone's happy.
As for this topic, I second everything @trinit said. The discussion here has been WAY more civil than I have seen on most boards, and it would be a shame to shut it down now when constructive comments are still being made. If there's one thing I've learned from internet debates, it's that even if you believe that everyone has already made up their minds and that no one will ever get through to the other side...it's actually not true. Okay, the person you're arguing with is about as likely to change their mind right now as you are, but for the many users just reading the topic, with no ego at stake defending their points, it's much easier to take the informative and persuasive parts of both sides and silently change your opinion one way or another. I've been that lurker many times.
@KolonKu That's exactly what Fallout: New Vegas does, and it's a decent solution, but for a very character-based game like Baldur's Gate, I'd rather not. I don't like being hit on by the other gender either, and not being straight, that's going to happen a lot more often to me. But there's something unsettling about checking a box to "erase" that part of a character. I'd rather just tell them "no thanks" in the game.
Toggle on/off bissexual romances? I support this idea, make it optional patch/DLC otherwise people will cry a river about prejudice.
@Trinit i asked to close cos this thread as it can be anything but discussion about in game romances, it's on topic real preference romances here, a overhaul clean of posts was already made by Tanthalas and many more will be needed.
There is probably something concrete out there, probably not yet, maybe sometime.
But since most of it is tied to how our brain works, and we haven't got such huge info on certain parts, we'll probably be wondering a while more ^^
Now, you all remember Lilarcor right?
Where is mah female sword!?!?!
It is really too bad since Zevran is a pretty interesting character, but the fact that you are forced to hit on him is pretty screwy.
I was thinking... why not turn this discussion into something amusing?
You can tell just from looking at this thread that there are a lot of different outlooks on the subject. So what do you think the realistic reactions of the rest of your party (based on their characters) would be when you and your npc partner come out of the closet?
For starters:
Minsk will just be confused by something like this - neutral
Edwin will mock you two simians and will keep trolling you the rest of the adventure - neutral anti
Nalia will most likely support your love if it's true no matter the form - pro
So... what do you think?
I just want to say one thing, and one thing only:
Straight, gay, lesbian, bi, I don't care. Romances in video games are annoying and I don't see the point. I find them shallow and sterile and they tend to amount to just pure dicking around. They annoy me because they've become such a Big Important Feature of RPGs that it's like any game that hasn't got a romance in it isn't worth playing. Bioware romances aren't too bad, I'll admit. At least they're like standard NPC interactions, just with the added mini-game of clicking the right option to get some poon-tang, but romances in games like Skyrim and Fable drive me absolutely up the wall. Yes, let's all get emotionally attached to some arbitrary cardboard NPC who's the exact same as everyone else! THAT's what I REALLY look for in my video games!
Yes, I know I'm being a grumpy old curmudgeon who's ruining other people's fun by dumping on a feature I can effortlessly avoid. No, I don't care. Go away.
This isn't a question of moral conflict, or something that bother you, it's just a quest that you find anoying, so help yourself with the "leave me alone" option or don't pick romanceable NPCs, cos my friend, they're not going anywhere.
No matter how you feel about homosexuality, they deserve to be treated just like everyone else, not to be told to sit the f down and shut the F up just for existing. If you don't like it, don't put that character in your party- simple as that. To use your own words, keep your bigotry to yourself. Nobody wants to see it.
Romance is a gender, gay romance is a specie. Until today i don't know people that are agains relationship, only kinds of relationships, but please, present me your thoughts.
@LadyRhian no matter how you see this, homossexualism isn't a natural behavior, while it's a common an acceptable behavior by society. I will surely get a thousand of flames for this post and by all means i'm not saying that being gay is wrong, it's just a patch that diverts from natural order.
Not being natural doesn't mean that isn't good, human society diverts from nature in almost everything. I would have no problem with a guy kissing another on TV, movies... but a man over another doing sex is offensive to people that don't like it and i would like to see someone explaining to a 5 year children what a guy was doing over another. The fact that the global media become obscene and violent can't justify this kind of act.
We can't destroy a thousand years culture instantly, this kind of change take time. Force this kind of change too fast can give the worst of the results, we're already on the Glee age, things are A LOT different than what happened 20 years ago, when this kind of thread would not even exist.
I see this thread has 8 pages now. I'm guessing they started?
1. There is nothing "unnatural" about homosexuality. It's certainly not limited to humanity. To quote the article, "homosexual behavior has been observed in close to 1,500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them".
2. Why would explaining to males having sex be any different or harder than explaining heterosexual sex? I wouldn't say having to explain sex to 5 year olds would be in any way ideal, but I don't see why would use any other words for gay sex than straight.
3. "Thousands of years of culture"? No. The world, and not just the Greco-Roman or Japanese cultures but also Christian, used to be a lot more tolerant and event acceptive of homosexuality. We have round records of gay marriages from the early Christian days, and during the Medieval ages having sex with another man was simply considered no different than having sex with a woman out of wedlock. The culture of anti-homosexuality that we are leaving behind us today are mostly not more than 400-500 years old, and nothing else.