The Undead Settlement is basically Hemwick Charnel Lane taken to a much larger scale, which is good because even though it's so small it's one of the best areas in Bloodborne.
I'm not sure how anyone gets through this game without at LEAST using a bow to pull certain mobs, unless you are insistent that it somehow "cheeses" the game and only use something like throwing knives instead. There are numerous mobs I have only killed on my first run because of my bow. I don't feel like it does cheese the game though. As evidenced by what they did to poise, From is certainly not above deliberately making thing harder for players. If there was a situation or mob they didn't want you to take out with a bow (or have the option to), they wouldn't let you.
Very little in this game is an accident or glitch, even if it seems like it is. I mean you can even look back to the Hellkite Drake in the Undead Burg. It's fairly obvious the way the tail is situated and your vantage point from the area below that you are SUPPOSED to use a bow to get the Drake Sword, and I don't believe they have put in the sniping spots by accident. There are a couple mobs in a rafter-type area a little later that would be totally insane to take on in a duel with such little space, and that run themselves right off the ledges if you shoot at them. Some people will scream "cheese" or glitch, but From didn't put that kind of pathing in the game by mistake, imo.
I'll also maintain that the faster these games are, the harder. I'm finding Dark Souls 3/Bloodborne to be by far more challenging that Dark Souls 1 and 2, and having just recently started diving into Demon's Souls, that one is even easier still. Granted, if I'd come across it when it came out, things would have been different, but playing Demon's Souls last really takes alot of the challenge out of it, since all the tricks they use were implemented in much more challenging ways in the later games.
@the_spyder Restartitis? It doesn't even matter what you start as after about 10 level ups! Except for optimisation but that's only in Pvp.
True, but Iudex Gundyr actually DOES make your starting class matter. A Warrior or Knight is gonna have a better time with him just based on armor and weapon damage. I think half the problem I had with my Herald was that the spear was doing such little damage. Pyromancers will absolutely destroy his second phase.
@jjstraka34 Well sure, but all classes can beat him, so ultimately you can build your desired character using any starting class. That's why I'm so glad they retained the respec system from DS2.
@jjstraka34 Well sure, but all classes can beat him, so ultimately you can build your desired character using any starting class. That's why I'm so glad they retained the respec system from DS2.
My only point (and why I find him such a well-done boss) is that it is the only early-game boss in any of these games where your class actually matters. The opening area of Dark Souls 3 is perhaps the only time in the entire series where your class makes a big difference. Once you leave you can level up, switch weapons, go a different path, branch out etc etc etc. But before you beat him, you are totally stuck with what your starting gear and stats are, and as such, the fight against Gundyr in NG is the most important your starting class will be in the entire series. The Asylum Demon and Taurus Demon can be plunge attacked to death by anyone. The Last Giant will always be a pushover. And even in those cases, you can level. Not here.
I think you may be forgetting the Vanguard Demon... he still scares me.
Not forgetting, but while you can certainly beat him, you aren't really SUPPOSED to beat him. It's more like dying to the beast in Iosefka's Clinic, in that death is meant to funnel you into your hub area. Also, in Bloodborne, while you are technically supposed to at least face the Cleric Beast once before you can interact with the doll and level, if you make your way into the sewers you can get a Madman's Knowledge and do so beforehand.
No, didn't kill him unfortunately. I gave him a few smacks and after realizing how long it was gonna take I just went out the front door. He can't follow you through.
He is pretty killable, though. You can take the beast out with visceral attacks (attack from behind, specifically, as you have no gun) fairly quickly.
The Vanguard Demon is pretty killable too, and v. similar attack patterns to the Asylum Demon (might be the same, I think). Of course if you do kill him, there's something else waiting to unavoidably kill you anyway. There's no such safety net in Bloodborne. Well, other than more beasts and hunters in the streets.
He is pretty killable, though. You can take the beast out with visceral attacks (attack from behind, specifically, as you have no gun) fairly quickly.
The Vanguard Demon is pretty killable too, and v. similar attack patterns to the Asylum Demon (might be the same, I think). Of course if you do kill him, there's something else waiting to unavoidably kill you anyway. There's no such safety net in Bloodborne. Well, other than more beasts and hunters in the streets.
Yeah, the Vanguard Demon is the direct relative of the Asylum Demon. And in many ways, even though it's a great game in it's own right, Demon's Souls is simply a template for what followed. That's what it plays like if you come to it last for sure. I almost feel like my character is floating half the time, magic is absurdly overpowered, it's far easier to dodge, etc etc.
Gundyr is really more intimidating than difficult. He's there to teach you the importance of rolling through attacks vs. blocking and being aggressive over being passive. He really doesn't have that much health at all and his attacks are easy to dodge but if you try to block he'll probably guard break then punish you. I'm not trying to be superior or anything friends, I'm not saying I perfectly mastered the fight on my first try but Gundyr is there to teach you the gameplay style that you'll need to adapt to for the next few bosses, maybe even all of them.
Vordt, Crystal Sage, Deacons, Abyss Watchers, Pontiff etc etc. are all fought best by getting in close and fighting them aggressively which lets you avoid attacks and even stagger them, stopping them from attacking more. If you spend a lot of time with your shield up backing away then they'll likely overwhelm you. If this isn't your natural style then it can be a harsh transition which is why Gundyr tries to encourage that style in you.
The Knight or Pyromancer might have a slight advantage in that fight but its really only a matter of dodging a couple more attacks. Knight definitely has the easiest go of it in the early game overall but I think its pretty easy to see how that would be the case if you have any amount of game literacy.
I apologise if this comes off as arrogant or rude to any of my forum friends, sometimes its hard to get the right tone. If any of you need help with anything then please feel free to say so and I'll do my best to give you some tips or even join you for jolly co-operation if possible.
Apparently you can now at least get the Rosaria's Fingers trophy and re-spec without angering Sirrus. Reddit seems to confirm it was patched into the PS4 version, though isn't on PC yet. My guess is that equipping the covenant item will still cause her to turn on you. But consensus seems to be that you can at least accept the token.
What are everyone's thoughts on Rosaria anyway?? Very distrubing, Bloodborne-esque design, and her posture and certain item descriptions seem to point to a connection to Gwenevere, though alot of stuff seems to point to Gwenevere, even in regards to Oceiros and his children. She's the single biggest enigma in this series to me. A illusion in Dark Souls 1, a possible clue toward the Old Dragonslayer and Heide's in Dark Souls 2, and now her mark is all over the 3rd game with absolutely no concrete answers to be found.
It's really interesting that she is explicitly a goddess and she's set up in a place dedicated to the worship of a guy who eats gods. I wonder what that grating was set up for, to keep her in or to keep other things out? I'll have to load up the game and look at which side the breach came from.
It's really interesting that she is explicitly a goddess and she's set up in a place dedicated to the worship of a guy who eats gods. I wonder what that grating was set up for, to keep her in or to keep other things out? I'll have to load up the game and look at which side the breach came from.
Aldritch, from what I can tell, was just regular human cleric who eventually enjoyed eating people, and when that no longer satiated him, he sort of morphed into this sludge and starting trying to consume gods. As for the Deep, is it the Abyss?? Doesn't it have to be?? Why are the Abyss Watcher's guarding the Catacombs?? High Lord Wolnir's bracelets seemed to be what was saving him from the darkness, and when he falls back he looks as terrified as a skeletal giant can look....but what the hell is his connection to the Pontiff and Aldritch?? Those 3 seem like the most flat-out BAD dudes in the series outside of Seath. Most bosses have a charge to keep or have a tragic story. These 3 just seem like straight-up assholes.
As for the Deep, is it the Abyss?? Doesn't it have to be??
Not necessarily.
"The deep was originally a peaceful and sacred place, but became the final rest for many abhorrent things. This tale of the Deep offers protection for those who worship amidst those horrors." and "Intended to teach divine protection to the deacons of the deep, but later, dark tales were added to its pages, such that it is now considered a thing profane." seem to imply that the Deep was once not a place associated with the Dark.
Wolnir's items explicitely talk about the Abyss, rather than the Deep. "A holy sword eroded by the Abyss. When Wolnir fell to the Abyss, he was gripped by a fear of true darkness, and pleaded to the gods for the first time."
In DS1 we hear that noone has walked the Abyss and survived (except the pc and Siff) and characters like Beatrice died just walking down there.
In DS2 it's described as a very Calm place. But you still need a special ritual to walk there and everything is trying to kill you.
but what the hell is his connection to the Pontiff and Aldritch??
There... may not be one. He's described as the king of a desert kingdom "Ring worn by warriors of the sand kingdom, Carthus. [...] They live for their High Lord Wolnir, conqueror of most kingdoms known to their people." but we never see so much as a grain of sand in DS3 (maybe because this is all somehow taking place above the snowcap of a mountain range). It's quite possible that the catacombs just happened to show up there one day.
Also, the catacombs have no creatures or items associating it with Aldritch, two of the three areas that surround it are full of them.
Why are the Abyss Watcher's guarding the Catacombs??
My guess is (if it's not just because the world is completely random and the Wolf just happens to be there) that they are somewhat aware of Wolnir who was drawn into the Abyss and brought things back. "High Lord Wolnir of Carthus succumbed to the Abyss, but the pyromancer later became a grave warden, and discovered the black flame." But they were just too loopy to have any chance against the skeletons etc to go in and contain the Abyss.
Physical locations in this game aren't always where they are supposed to be. The Catacombs might just have crashed into the back of the Farron Mausoleum like the High Wall did to the Undead Settlement.
The Deep isn't the Abyss, its the ocean. It was lovely and nice until gross idiots started dumping toxic waste into it which is probably some kind of metaphor but I can't imagine what for.
Physical locations in this game aren't always where they are supposed to be. The Catacombs might just have crashed into the back of the Farron Mausoleum like the High Wall did to the Undead Settlement.
The Deep isn't the Abyss, its the ocean. It was lovely and nice until gross idiots started dumping toxic waste into it which is probably some kind of metaphor but I can't imagine what for.
Well, Bloodborne certainly had a fixation with the Deep and the ocean (but that came from Lovecraft). I don't doubt you're right about this, but the ocean itself has rarely been discussed in Dark Souls. Indeed, it isn't even really seen in a vista outside of Majula, Heide's and in the area with the Stray Demon in 3. Seems weird that they'don't start throwing in references to places like the ocean (The Deep) and the desert (Carthus) when we never explore those environments in-game....
I still have one rebirth unused and have basically tested all the builds I want, so if everyone is curious about something I can do a test before starting NG+.
Hello friends, I hope your are all still having as much fun with this game as I am.
So once you get 60 Faith Miracles get pretty insane. You can one shot almost any player with Sunlight Spear and Lightning Blade gives you an absurd amount of damage. The final boss didn't actually have time to change his fighting style before I knocked him into his second phase just from me wildly flailing at him with my Sunlight Straight Sword.
I'm having fun on my Sorcery character too. I got the Moonlight Greatsword at level 30 by fighting the Dancer before Vordt (this is becoming a recurring theme on my playthroughs) and its a really fun weapon. I just unlocked the most disgusting combo for PvE exploration too. I bought a spell that makes me invisible to enemies for about 20 seconds. My sorcerer friend gave me a ring that makes my footsteps silent so enemies don't hear me coming, it goes nicely with my ring that gives me FP for doing backstabs. Coincidentally it happens to give me the exact amount of FP needed to cast the invisibility spell...
I also made a fun character called Abyss Watcher who uses their armour and sword, alternating between doing invasions and helping people fight Abyss Watchers. I'm using the ring that makes you look normal too so I in the boss fight I look just like those guys, its a good time. Still trying to master parrying though.
Comments
I'm not sure how anyone gets through this game without at LEAST using a bow to pull certain mobs, unless you are insistent that it somehow "cheeses" the game and only use something like throwing knives instead. There are numerous mobs I have only killed on my first run because of my bow. I don't feel like it does cheese the game though. As evidenced by what they did to poise, From is certainly not above deliberately making thing harder for players. If there was a situation or mob they didn't want you to take out with a bow (or have the option to), they wouldn't let you.
Very little in this game is an accident or glitch, even if it seems like it is. I mean you can even look back to the Hellkite Drake in the Undead Burg. It's fairly obvious the way the tail is situated and your vantage point from the area below that you are SUPPOSED to use a bow to get the Drake Sword, and I don't believe they have put in the sniping spots by accident. There are a couple mobs in a rafter-type area a little later that would be totally insane to take on in a duel with such little space, and that run themselves right off the ledges if you shoot at them. Some people will scream "cheese" or glitch, but From didn't put that kind of pathing in the game by mistake, imo.
I'll also maintain that the faster these games are, the harder. I'm finding Dark Souls 3/Bloodborne to be by far more challenging that Dark Souls 1 and 2, and having just recently started diving into Demon's Souls, that one is even easier still. Granted, if I'd come across it when it came out, things would have been different, but playing Demon's Souls last really takes alot of the challenge out of it, since all the tricks they use were implemented in much more challenging ways in the later games.
The Vanguard Demon is pretty killable too, and v. similar attack patterns to the Asylum Demon (might be the same, I think). Of course if you do kill him, there's something else waiting to unavoidably kill you anyway. There's no such safety net in Bloodborne. Well, other than more beasts and hunters in the streets.
Vordt, Crystal Sage, Deacons, Abyss Watchers, Pontiff etc etc. are all fought best by getting in close and fighting them aggressively which lets you avoid attacks and even stagger them, stopping them from attacking more. If you spend a lot of time with your shield up backing away then they'll likely overwhelm you. If this isn't your natural style then it can be a harsh transition which is why Gundyr tries to encourage that style in you.
The Knight or Pyromancer might have a slight advantage in that fight but its really only a matter of dodging a couple more attacks. Knight definitely has the easiest go of it in the early game overall but I think its pretty easy to see how that would be the case if you have any amount of game literacy.
I apologise if this comes off as arrogant or rude to any of my forum friends, sometimes its hard to get the right tone. If any of you need help with anything then please feel free to say so and I'll do my best to give you some tips or even join you for jolly co-operation if possible.
What are everyone's thoughts on Rosaria anyway?? Very distrubing, Bloodborne-esque design, and her posture and certain item descriptions seem to point to a connection to Gwenevere, though alot of stuff seems to point to Gwenevere, even in regards to Oceiros and his children. She's the single biggest enigma in this series to me. A illusion in Dark Souls 1, a possible clue toward the Old Dragonslayer and Heide's in Dark Souls 2, and now her mark is all over the 3rd game with absolutely no concrete answers to be found.
"The deep was originally a peaceful and sacred place, but became the final rest for many abhorrent things. This tale of the Deep offers protection for those who worship amidst those horrors."
and
"Intended to teach divine protection to the deacons of the deep, but later, dark tales were added to its pages, such that it is now considered a thing profane."
seem to imply that the Deep was once not a place associated with the Dark.
Wolnir's items explicitely talk about the Abyss, rather than the Deep.
"A holy sword eroded by the Abyss. When Wolnir fell to the Abyss, he was gripped by a fear of true darkness, and pleaded to the gods for the first time."
In DS1 we hear that noone has walked the Abyss and survived (except the pc and Siff) and characters like Beatrice died just walking down there.
In DS2 it's described as a very Calm place. But you still need a special ritual to walk there and everything is trying to kill you. There... may not be one. He's described as the king of a desert kingdom
"Ring worn by warriors of the sand kingdom, Carthus. [...] They live for their High Lord Wolnir, conqueror of most kingdoms known to their people."
but we never see so much as a grain of sand in DS3 (maybe because this is all somehow taking place above the snowcap of a mountain range). It's quite possible that the catacombs just happened to show up there one day.
Also, the catacombs have no creatures or items associating it with Aldritch, two of the three areas that surround it are full of them. My guess is (if it's not just because the world is completely random and the Wolf just happens to be there) that they are somewhat aware of Wolnir who was drawn into the Abyss and brought things back.
"High Lord Wolnir of Carthus succumbed to the Abyss, but the pyromancer later became a grave warden, and discovered the black flame."
But they were just too loopy to have any chance against the skeletons etc to go in and contain the Abyss.
The Deep isn't the Abyss, its the ocean. It was lovely and nice until gross idiots started dumping toxic waste into it which is probably some kind of metaphor but I can't imagine what for.
I see they're not the same thing but I wonder if there's a connection or if the deep specifically has something to do with humanity and the dark soul.
EDIT: This is why your starting class matters when optimising for PvP.
So once you get 60 Faith Miracles get pretty insane. You can one shot almost any player with Sunlight Spear and Lightning Blade gives you an absurd amount of damage. The final boss didn't actually have time to change his fighting style before I knocked him into his second phase just from me wildly flailing at him with my Sunlight Straight Sword.
I'm having fun on my Sorcery character too. I got the Moonlight Greatsword at level 30 by fighting the Dancer before Vordt (this is becoming a recurring theme on my playthroughs) and its a really fun weapon. I just unlocked the most disgusting combo for PvE exploration too. I bought a spell that makes me invisible to enemies for about 20 seconds. My sorcerer friend gave me a ring that makes my footsteps silent so enemies don't hear me coming, it goes nicely with my ring that gives me FP for doing backstabs. Coincidentally it happens to give me the exact amount of FP needed to cast the invisibility spell...
I also made a fun character called Abyss Watcher who uses their armour and sword, alternating between doing invasions and helping people fight Abyss Watchers. I'm using the ring that makes you look normal too so I in the boss fight I look just like those guys, its a good time. Still trying to master parrying though.
@Diogenes42 I wanna do a role-play build as well, but I'm suffering from indecisiveness. Yours sounds like fun!
The luck build is actually pretty powerful. I will probably respec Luck/INT for NG+