It's not problematic, I just ventured too far hoping for a bonfire and let the cautiousness that had almost gotten me back lapse and lost 16,000 souls, then I got smoked on the way back to them....oh well....went back to the Farron Keep swamp area. I have to say, after finding the Wolf Covenant, I may have changed my mind on Lothric's location just from looking down from the tower. At the very top, you gaze out into the ocean. I can imagine Drangleic is across that vast expanse. But Lothric is clearly very, very close to Lordran and in some spots actually may be. Indeed, all those thoughts about Drangleic being Lordran seem silly in retrospect.
The first game laid the lore in place, 2 was simply a wonderful, quirky sequel that told the story of how far-reaching and inevitable Gwyn's sin was, but it was, in fact, a side story (which is great). 3 is not that kind of detour at all.
There is also a Asylum Demon who is turning to ash up there, and he seems to have a built in anti-cheese mechanic in regards to bows AND the stairs....
I can see why you would think that. However a crucial plot point is the reincarnation of the great souls. Why would they be there instead of Lordran?
Maybe I'll just wait for some more Vaatividya videos before coming to a final conclusion. I just don't know. In alot of fantasy games and literature, there is always an exotic "land to the east". It's like where Danerys is in Game of Thrones, Shara in the Wheel of Time. Often referenced, but hardly understood by anyone who resides in the "proper" region of the setting. Drangleic feels that way a bit. I think we know Vedrick took the fight to the giants. The DLCs reveal even more rulers besides Vendrick.
In Dark Souls 1, we were essentially killing ancient gods. In Dark Souls 2, kings. Now in 3, we have lords. Lords of Cinder, and lords of certain areas in one form or title or another. But there are no gods left, there aren't even any kings. It's just smaller fiefdoms in all that is left of the world.
This is all stuff from the beginning of the game so I hope nobody will mind some mild spoilers my friends.
If you watch the intro cinematic it talks about the "transitory lands" of the Lords of Cinder. So it seems like their lands are coming and going, sort of shifting in and out of space and time. "The flow of time is distorted."
Here is the item description from the Lothric Banner that you raise at the beginning of the game.
Small banner held by Lothric messengers. Hold up outside the main castle gate to be greeted by an escort.
When the High Wall appeared, the path to the Undead Settlement was blocked, and messengers came bearing this banner. They were sent out with a duty, but had no way of returning.
Notice how it says "when the High Wall appeared" not when it was built or something like that. So the lands/realities of one of the Lords of Cinder just popped into existence on top of another one.
Lords of Cinder are of course people who linked the fire in the past. You could be cheeky and claim they are all player characters from Dark Souls 1 and 2. So maybe their lands overlapping with each other comes back to the whole Soapstone thing where player characters effectively hop from one reality to another when doing co-op or PvP.
Here is something that's not really a spoiler but some people might want to discover it for themselves.
Farron Keep is literally Darkroot Garden. You come across the Mushroom Men, Oolacile magic, Dusk's outfit and the Artorias Fan Club lives there doing a new forest invasion. I think there's also some of the same geography.
Drangleic might be a land that is far away from Lordran or Lothric but that doesn't mean it isn't also very close due to the messed up nature of reality in this game/series. Part of the magic is that it can be both at once. If you read all this, thank you for taking the time my friends.
I definitely have been feeling it is in fact the area you mentioned, it almost has to be. I feel like (as you said) even if Lothric and Lordran aren't totally the same, then they are so close as to almost be overlapping, though it still feels to me like alot of the proper game in Dark Souls 3 is taking place just north of where we were in the first game.
@the_spyder I've beaten Gundyr with a mercenary. Not the easiest but quite manageable. When to strike and when to dodge is basically the same for every class. Comboing with your dual scimitars is tempting but use restraint
Great for you. And I am not saying it can not be done. My comment was that with one class it is ridiculously easy and another it is VERY hard. This, considering how early in the game it is (a point before you have any chance at all to upgrade anything or get any new gear) means that there is a huge balancing issue.
Hey friend. Not to be a jerk but you really just need to learn how to dodge attacks. I'm not saying "get good" or whatever but Gundyr is placed there to make sure the player knows how to dodge attacks instead of just blocking or spamming attacks like you can with the previous enemies in the tutorial. If you roll under one of his swings and get some good hits in with your blades then you can probably do at least a fifth of his health right there. His attacks are pretty slow and obvious so just learn his patterns and how to avoid each attack. His second phase is more scary than it is dangerous, try to stay behind him if you can.
Pro-tip....if you are ever looking to get an extra ember and get in your cinder form, the best place to do so is the Crystal Sage. There is hardly any danger in this fight with two people, and it's usually over within 1 minute. I can't recall if you had to be in human form to use your white soapstone in the previous games, but the fact that you don't here is more than welcome.
(preafce: I haven't beaten the game yet, so there could quite likely be some item description or encounters that kill this theory)
I've been thinking that DS3 is taking place inside the fire.
As we get closer to the end of the game, and time starts running out, the sky in some areas starts to have a 360 degree sunset, as if the distant world is on fire (unlikely with the fire fading) or we're having a Drakengard moment and we're starting to see what is actually beyond the sky.
It's safe to say that the lords are people or groups who have linked the flame, but it would be too big a coincidence for them all to exist in the real world at the same time.
The cycle supposedly takes hundreds of years between linkings but all these lords just happen to be alive and in the areas that are special to them when it is apparent that massive chunks of land are missing or misplaced.
When we see the Kiln of the First Flame in DS1 we see that the place is absolutely desolated and there's nothing left in any direction for miles, almost like there's been a thermo-nuclear explosion. There's even ghosts burned into the walls.
So, my theory is that when the fire consumes the soul of whomsoever linked it, it explodes and uses some portion of that energy to reach out and grab all the people with souls that may have been strong enough to link the flame if they had been given the chance. It also grabs the place they were standing, anyone who happened to be nearby and the shell of the new lord. It then uses these things to keep the flame fed between cycles.
Gwyn links the fire and pulls in a bunch of knights and who knows what else (maybe the dragon place), the chosen undead links the fire and it follows the path Frampt took to take Gwyndolin, Solaire and Andre (taking chunks of Anor Londo and Isalith), the new monarch links the flame and pulls in Lucatiel and ... Gilligan?!? (maybe he was picking the pockets of someone strong). Someone in Londor links the fire and pulls in Gwynevere ,her family, the castle and a big chunk of the wall.
This goes on and on over the years until we get our colourful cast of lords and heirs, with the fire draining them dry every time the flames die low between links and then putting everyone back to sleep. This would also explain why (almost) everyone and (definitely) their dog wants to stop you from finding the lords. They likely get drained along with the lords and would prefer to see the flame die.
Ludleth appears to be the only sane lord (haven't found the last once, so I dunno 'bout him), maybe implying that he is one of the most recent ones to link the flame. He seems to know the firekeeper personally, having become a lord in order to protect her, and his special area seems to be firelink shrine.
We know from the existence of the second firelink shrine that things are really not as they appear to be, and the firekeeper's reaction to seeing through her new eyes implies that there may be a real world where the flame has almost completely died.
The consumed king has made the most progress we've ever seen to transforming oneself into a dragon, which must take massive magical power. Perhaps enough power to punch a hole out of the fire and into the closest place to it, the last place it was linked.
Looking at the trophies, I still have two mini bosses left (one likely in the dragon place and one in the castle) and the last lord, then its on to cleanup runs so that I can get all the item descriptions. I haven't found anything to make me really doubt this theory yet though. Has anyone else found something that puts a big ol' hole in it?
Pro-tip....if you are ever looking to get an extra ember and get in your cinder form, the best place to do so is the Crystal Sage. There is hardly any danger in this fight with two people, and it's usually over within 1 minute. I can't recall if you had to be in human form to use your white soapstone in the previous games, but the fact that you don't here is more than welcome.
@jjstraka34 No, you wouldn't have be in human form to be summoned. It's a genius game play mechanic like so many others in this series. You help a guy beat the boss. As a reward, you get your ember/humanity restored (among other things). Now you can summon a phantom yourself and beat the boss in your game. It has great reciprocity.
When did you guys tackle the titanite demon like (cemetery of ash)
Didn't even try at lvl 1 after I got hit once, and when I returned (I'm past the Crystal Sage atm.) he was pretty easy. So he was a difficult encounter for starter, but not impossible ?
@jjstraka34 doing the Sage solo isn't much harder. The clones all have 1 hp and mostly fire extreme slow soulspears. You can play it safe and take the clones out first, or you try to locate the real one (purple magic animations), and after taking some damage he and clones will submerge again.
@FinneousPJ looks pretty much like the my build atm. but I haven't allocated that much points yet.
I'm at a crossroad now, pumping more in Dex and Endurance or Investing in Faith and some Attunement. The FP are throwing me a bit off in my decision. Splitting my Estus, so I can restore FP and use healing spells? Not sure if its worth the bother. And I don't have enough points to distribute for making offensive casting more than a gimmick. 2nd option, complete the Dex build 3rd option, allocating some Str and Vit and go for a weaponmaster.
Enchanting is btw. pretty cool in DS3. Uncoupled Infusing and Enhancing, makes experimenting much more fun. I'm still chronically low on titanite, and I haven't even begun to enhance any armor. Maybe I should have invested in some Luck ?
@Yamcha I took him down before reaching Firelink. It gives 4000 souls which is a great early-game boost. Took a few tries to learn his moves of course but it's not too hard.
The Sage. I felt like there's too much of a chance to simply get unlucky, with so much magic flying around. Maybe I accidentally beat him before getting good
I recommend pumping more DEX/END for now. You can respec in the Cathedral of the Deep if you want to do a different build end-game, but for mid-game first try, I don't think you can beat your basic melee type.
As for upgrade materials, everything except Titanite Slab for the final upgrade is farmable and purchaseable later, so don't worry.
This morning I managed to co-op the final boss a few times. With more time to take it in, yeah, it's very nicely designed. The music really hits you in the feels,
especially when he hits phase 2 and Gwyn's moveset and the music changes. Before that he has different, less powerful movesets depicting the different lords of cinder over the course of history. Then finally you get to the very first lord. It's a great boss design.
I can understand the_spyder's issue with this game, especially if he didn't enjoy Bloodborne. The fast majority of the enemies in this game are agile as hell and lightning quick, but no one (including you) has much, if any poise. This was negated in Bloodborne by being able to dash and dart around to your heart's content, but it's quite another to learn how to deal with this speed by rolling. In my mind there is no question the regular mobs are harder, and though early bosses aren't, later fights like the Pontiff and Dancer are insane flurries and hurricanes of attacks.
1.) Whatever Aldrich is, he is related to the Cathedral of the Deep and the Pontiff, who imprisoned Gwyndolin in the Anor Londo Cathedral and let Aldrich devour him. Unsure how the Deep ties in with the Abyss.
2.) Oceiros, the Consumed King was the ruler of Lothric, and the father of the Twin Princes. However, (and now we get into Bloodborne-level abomination stuff) he discovered Seath's archives and transformed into a deformed, blind, albino dragon-kin. But after doing so, he made a failed attempt to carry a child, Ocelotte. In his madness, he believes his all-powerful dragon child is just hiding because he is scared, when in fact it was a still-born or aborted attempt long ago. Meanwhile, his own heir is even more sickly and deformed than Gwyndolin ever was, and he refused to become a Lord of Cinder, and he (with his older brother) retreated to simply watch the Fire fade.
3.) The Nameless King is, without question, Gwyn's Firstborn, who turned on his father during the ancient war so long ago, over the ages apparently becoming an almost Zeus-like deity in the highest reaches of the world among the dragons and wyvern.
I'm pretty sure he means the mutated crystal lizard. Oh, unless there's one in that other place (though it's not called the cemetery of ash). I haven't gone down that path yet.
In the biggest shock of my gaming career, I won my very first legitimate invasion in any of these games, even though I clearly sat down at the bonfire and made it clear I didn't want to fight and he backstabbed me anyway. But the fact is, I clearly had done more exploring then him, and had WAY more Estus charges....
@jjstraka34 Nice, congrats. Now you can start doing invasions of your own
It really adds a nice element, I wish all the games were as active as this is now. Problem is, at the moment, all I'm looking to do is get up to the Abyss Watchers and do a summon, but this is, for obvious reasons, a highly active area. You have the Darkwraiths and a wide open run to the boss area.
From what I've seen, when people put down signs for that boss they do it by the shortcut bonfire. then they hug the right wall and only have to fight 2-3 of the enemies in the area.
Whatever anyone does, DO NOT buy the strategy guide, even as a collectible. It is a monumentally lazy production, with wholly inaccurate information in spots, and the "estus flask" in the collector's edition is a sub-Happy Meal toy level piece of plastic. Prima should be ashamed of themselves.
For the record, I did not buy this. But I did flip through the guide at Wal-Mart, and it's almost as if they were handed the maps and information from Bandai Namco and didn't even play the game. There is a point where they tell you to "equip your best fire resist gear" without so much as mentioning what gear might have decent fire resist or where you might acquire it. Fine for people who understand how the mechanics work, not so much if someone is shelling out money to help them with the game.
The Estus Flask is a joke, and honestly should open up whoever was involved in it to some sort of class-action lawsuit. Bandai Namco has been pretty horrible during this entire roll-out. The Japanese release, the rampant spoilers (I just gave up at a certain point because it was impossible to avoid if you spent anytime online) and even the big "reveal" a week before the release that turned out to be a crappy clothing line.
I'm hoping that this is the last release of a Souls-type of game From does with Bandai. Sony somehow managed to keep the entire overarching focus of Bloodborne a total mystery up until the point people got a ways in and realized that it wasn't, in fact, about hunting werewolves and it blew everyone's mind.
And if you're Sony, do you push for Bloodborne 2 (because god knows they'd want it) or at least another Souls-like game?? Or do you allow Miyazaki and From to go in another direction and trust it can have similar appeal. I get the feeling they have accomplished everything they have set out to do in this spectrum. And really, it seems like Dark Souls 3 is really Miyazaki's love letter to fans, and it does feel like it SHOULD be the end. Where do they go after a fight like The Nameless King?? Even watching it on Youtube gives you goosebumps....
Comments
The first game laid the lore in place, 2 was simply a wonderful, quirky sequel that told the story of how far-reaching and inevitable Gwyn's sin was, but it was, in fact, a side story (which is great). 3 is not that kind of detour at all.
DS2
In Dark Souls 1, we were essentially killing ancient gods. In Dark Souls 2, kings. Now in 3, we have lords. Lords of Cinder, and lords of certain areas in one form or title or another. But there are no gods left, there aren't even any kings. It's just smaller fiefdoms in all that is left of the world.
If you watch the intro cinematic it talks about the "transitory lands" of the Lords of Cinder. So it seems like their lands are coming and going, sort of shifting in and out of space and time. "The flow of time is distorted."
Here is the item description from the Lothric Banner that you raise at the beginning of the game. Notice how it says "when the High Wall appeared" not when it was built or something like that. So the lands/realities of one of the Lords of Cinder just popped into existence on top of another one.
Lords of Cinder are of course people who linked the fire in the past. You could be cheeky and claim they are all player characters from Dark Souls 1 and 2. So maybe their lands overlapping with each other comes back to the whole Soapstone thing where player characters effectively hop from one reality to another when doing co-op or PvP.
Here is something that's not really a spoiler but some people might want to discover it for themselves.
Drangleic might be a land that is far away from Lordran or Lothric but that doesn't mean it isn't also very close due to the messed up nature of reality in this game/series. Part of the magic is that it can be both at once. If you read all this, thank you for taking the time my friends.
(preafce: I haven't beaten the game yet, so there could quite likely be some item description or encounters that kill this theory)
I've been thinking that DS3 is taking place inside the fire.
As we get closer to the end of the game, and time starts running out, the sky in some areas starts to have a 360 degree sunset, as if the distant world is on fire (unlikely with the fire fading) or we're having a Drakengard moment and we're starting to see what is actually beyond the sky.
It's safe to say that the lords are people or groups who have linked the flame, but it would be too big a coincidence for them all to exist in the real world at the same time.
The cycle supposedly takes hundreds of years between linkings but all these lords just happen to be alive and in the areas that are special to them when it is apparent that massive chunks of land are missing or misplaced.
When we see the Kiln of the First Flame in DS1 we see that the place is absolutely desolated and there's nothing left in any direction for miles, almost like there's been a thermo-nuclear explosion. There's even ghosts burned into the walls.
So, my theory is that when the fire consumes the soul of whomsoever linked it, it explodes and uses some portion of that energy to reach out and grab all the people with souls that may have been strong enough to link the flame if they had been given the chance. It also grabs the place they were standing, anyone who happened to be nearby and the shell of the new lord. It then uses these things to keep the flame fed between cycles.
Gwyn links the fire and pulls in a bunch of knights and who knows what else (maybe the dragon place), the chosen undead links the fire and it follows the path Frampt took to take Gwyndolin, Solaire and Andre (taking chunks of Anor Londo and Isalith), the new monarch links the flame and pulls in Lucatiel and ... Gilligan?!? (maybe he was picking the pockets of someone strong). Someone in Londor links the fire and pulls in Gwynevere ,her family, the castle and a big chunk of the wall.
This goes on and on over the years until we get our colourful cast of lords and heirs, with the fire draining them dry every time the flames die low between links and then putting everyone back to sleep. This would also explain why (almost) everyone and (definitely) their dog wants to stop you from finding the lords. They likely get drained along with the lords and would prefer to see the flame die.
Ludleth appears to be the only sane lord (haven't found the last once, so I dunno 'bout him), maybe implying that he is one of the most recent ones to link the flame. He seems to know the firekeeper personally, having become a lord in order to protect her, and his special area seems to be firelink shrine.
We know from the existence of the second firelink shrine that things are really not as they appear to be, and the firekeeper's reaction to seeing through her new eyes implies that there may be a real world where the flame has almost completely died.
The consumed king has made the most progress we've ever seen to transforming oneself into a dragon, which must take massive magical power. Perhaps enough power to punch a hole out of the fire and into the closest place to it, the last place it was linked.
Looking at the trophies, I still have two mini bosses left (one likely in the dragon place and one in the castle) and the last lord, then its on to cleanup runs so that I can get all the item descriptions. I haven't found anything to make me really doubt this theory yet though. Has anyone else found something that puts a big ol' hole in it?
Didn't even try at lvl 1 after I got hit once, and when I returned (I'm past the Crystal Sage atm.) he was pretty easy. So he was a difficult encounter for starter, but not impossible ?
@jjstraka34 doing the Sage solo isn't much harder. The clones all have 1 hp and mostly fire extreme slow soulspears.
You can play it safe and take the clones out first, or you try to locate the real one (purple magic animations), and after taking some damage he and clones will submerge again.
@FinneousPJ looks pretty much like the my build atm. but I haven't allocated that much points yet.
I'm at a crossroad now, pumping more in Dex and Endurance or Investing in Faith and some Attunement.
The FP are throwing me a bit off in my decision. Splitting my Estus, so I can restore FP and use healing spells? Not sure if its worth the bother. And I don't have enough points to distribute for making offensive casting more than a gimmick.
2nd option, complete the Dex build
3rd option, allocating some Str and Vit and go for a weaponmaster.
Enchanting is btw. pretty cool in DS3. Uncoupled Infusing and Enhancing, makes experimenting much more fun.
I'm still chronically low on titanite, and I haven't even begun to enhance any armor. Maybe I should have invested in some Luck ?
The Sage. I felt like there's too much of a chance to simply get unlucky, with so much magic flying around. Maybe I accidentally beat him before getting good
I recommend pumping more DEX/END for now. You can respec in the Cathedral of the Deep if you want to do a different build end-game, but for mid-game first try, I don't think you can beat your basic melee type.
As for upgrade materials, everything except Titanite Slab for the final upgrade is farmable and purchaseable later, so don't worry.
1.) Whatever Aldrich is, he is related to the Cathedral of the Deep and the Pontiff, who imprisoned Gwyndolin in the Anor Londo Cathedral and let Aldrich devour him. Unsure how the Deep ties in with the Abyss.
2.) Oceiros, the Consumed King was the ruler of Lothric, and the father of the Twin Princes. However, (and now we get into Bloodborne-level abomination stuff) he discovered Seath's archives and transformed into a deformed, blind, albino dragon-kin. But after doing so, he made a failed attempt to carry a child, Ocelotte. In his madness, he believes his all-powerful dragon child is just hiding because he is scared, when in fact it was a still-born or aborted attempt long ago. Meanwhile, his own heir is even more sickly and deformed than Gwyndolin ever was, and he refused to become a Lord of Cinder, and he (with his older brother) retreated to simply watch the Fire fade.
3.) The Nameless King is, without question, Gwyn's Firstborn, who turned on his father during the ancient war so long ago, over the ages apparently becoming an almost Zeus-like deity in the highest reaches of the world among the dragons and wyvern.
Fight is similar, and it also drops a guaranteed special ore.
Haven't seen a trace of Titanite Demons otherwise.
someone on Amazon posted a picture.
It also seems to come empty
The Estus Flask is a joke, and honestly should open up whoever was involved in it to some sort of class-action lawsuit. Bandai Namco has been pretty horrible during this entire roll-out. The Japanese release, the rampant spoilers (I just gave up at a certain point because it was impossible to avoid if you spent anytime online) and even the big "reveal" a week before the release that turned out to be a crappy clothing line.
I'm hoping that this is the last release of a Souls-type of game From does with Bandai. Sony somehow managed to keep the entire overarching focus of Bloodborne a total mystery up until the point people got a ways in and realized that it wasn't, in fact, about hunting werewolves and it blew everyone's mind.
And if you're Sony, do you push for Bloodborne 2 (because god knows they'd want it) or at least another Souls-like game?? Or do you allow Miyazaki and From to go in another direction and trust it can have similar appeal. I get the feeling they have accomplished everything they have set out to do in this spectrum. And really, it seems like Dark Souls 3 is really Miyazaki's love letter to fans, and it does feel like it SHOULD be the end. Where do they go after a fight like The Nameless King?? Even watching it on Youtube gives you goosebumps....