Skip to content

The most natural BG2 protagonist

In another thread, I ran a poll to help me to chose what could be my next written playthrough.
It actualy tends toward a playthrough consisting to play the game the most realistic way possible.

To prepare this, in case the results don't change until I finish my "Chidren of Fire" playthrough, I started to wonder: ok, what protagonist should I play for such a playthrough? What would be the most natural BG2 protagonist?

Here are my actual musings on the topic, and I'd like to hear everyone wanting to give an advice and opinion about them...


Gender

There is not much sensitive I could find about CHARNAME's gender in the game. There are more romance for males, but I don't see it like a true hint about the most natural gender to have...

Retained as possible gender: Male or female

Race

Imoen is a pure human Bhaalspawn, which brings an interesting information: Bhaal used an human form to make Imoen's mother pregnant, or she would have been an "half-something".
Due to Imoen's closeness, the most probably thought would be that he used the same form to make the protagonist's mother pregnant, which would lead him to be at least half-human.

Retained as possible race: Human or half-elf

Class

The protagonist has been raised into Candlekeep, a high place of knowledge training bards, mage and monks. His tutor was Gorion, himself a Mage.
If it didn't prevent Imoen to be a Thief, thing to point out is she starts as the most intelligent Thief of the game, and then turns to becomes a Thief/Mage... such thing gives a hint that the protagonist should naturaly be inclined to be an arcane spellcaster of some sort.
In BG1, it also have been given a hint that Gorion asked people to train the protagonist to the basic use of weapons, so any mix...
Some class are almost impossible for a realistic playthrough: Barbarian (the protagonist has not be raised Inside a barbarian tribe), Druid/Ranger (the protagonist never put his feet outside Candlekeep, so it could not have been trained to nature's ways) and Wizard Slayer (the protagonist would have never stayed with Gorion if he has such a hate for mages)...

On the other side, it is not impossible that the inheritance of the protagonist made him turn toward Thief class having a relation with mureder (sneaking and backstabbing... so not Swashbuckler) and could also explain Imoen's class.

Retained as possible class: Bard, Monk, Sorcerer, Mage, Fighter (except Wizard Slayer), Thief (except Swashbuckler) and dual/multi combinations associated

Alignement

It has been made clear by the dialog in the Chapter 1 that the protagonist have been wandering around a long time with Imoen, Jaheira and Minsc, which also implies Khalid and Dynaheir.
This party have enough people of a good alignements in it to hint that the most natural protagonist would not be evil: if he had been, those people would not have followed him for so long... not even speaking of Jaheira that due to her Harpist nature, would probably have killed him even before the events of BG2 (she still with her husband, so she has no true reason to spare an evil bhaalspawn)
This is emphased by the fact that Gorion was also a Harpist, and knew perfectly who is the father of the protagonist, and have not only raised him so he would have moral values, but also watched him so he will not become a threat to others... this is not truly compatible with an evil alignement

Retained as possible alignement: any non-evil

Companions

When you wake in a dungeon, being tortured, and having to face death, the companion you choose are people you can trust: past acquintances and people directly related to the heart of the matter.

As I pointed out above, the game makes itself clear that the party of the protagonist during BG1 is assumed to have been with Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, Dynaheir and Imoen. Jaheira, Minsc and Imoen are also directly related to the matter, and have genuine reason to never side with your arch-enemy

Yoshimo is related to the matter, but a perfect stranger, found out of a cage in Irenicus' place, honestly... I can't even see a reason to trust him like the game make us do.

Other acquintances not related to the matter includes Edwin, Viconia, Dorn, Neera and Rasaad.
Edwin tried to kill Dynaheir and Dorn is clearly someone that Jaheira would normaly not stand for long (don't know why she does in BG2...). Neera and Rasaad are more probable companion for the most natural protagonist, even if Viconia is not totaly impossible

Retained as possible party: Jaheira, Minsc, Imoen, Neera and Rasaad
JuliusBorisovjustfeelinathome[Deleted User]BelgarathMTHbrusbooinyoureyes
«1

Comments

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714
    Head-canons of each forumite, reveal yourselves!

    My choices:
    Male - "Come, brother, let us get the Throne" (to Sarevok in ToB)
    Half-elf (I just like slender and slim)
    Class - Fighter/Mage (magic lessons from Gorion and training fighting skills in Candlekeep)
    Alignment - Chaotic Good
    Companions (I see you're talking about BG2 here) - Jaheira, Minsc, Aerie, Anomen, Yoshimo/Imoen
    semiticgoddess
  • DaevelonDaevelon Member Posts: 605
    I don't agree much with the Race part.
    I read in this forum (don't remember where) that the race depended just from the mother and not from the form of Bhaal (there are still problems with the age of Charname with the long-lived races, though).
    The other points seem consistent, in my opinion.
  • AedanAedan Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 8,550
    edited March 2016
    bengoshi wrote: »
    Companions (I see you're talking about BG2 here) - Jaheira, Minsc, Aerie Viconia, Anomen, Yoshimo/Imoen

    Fixed ;)
    JuliusBorisov
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    I strongly disagree with both Amoen and Viconia for the described goal.
    None of the two fits in the natural choices regarding the story... Amoen is completly unrelated, and Viconia a distant acquaintaince that doesn't fit the alignement of the party at all.

    Aerie is unrelated to the plot, but she has the right alignement and build a relationship with Minsc... so... perhaps?
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    Much as I'm loath to say it, I think the implied BG canon is that Gorion's Ward is male. I base this on a number of characters, particularly in BG1, simply assuming that CHARNAME is attracted to women (lesbians are possible, of course, but generally are not people's default assumption), or even erroneously referring to CHARNAME as "he" regardless of gender (although I think the Enhanced Editions have fixed most of the latter problems, as I haven't noticed any in quite some time).
    [Deleted User]
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    Not helpful... and not very funny either, alas.
    Hariel
  • PhilhelmPhilhelm Member Posts: 473
    CHARNAME

    Gender: Male
    Race: Human
    Portrait: Male Human 2 (Canderous)
    Class: Fighter
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    Abilities: 18/00 Str; 18 Dex; 18 Con; 10 Int; 10 Wis; 10 Cha
    Proficiencies: Longsword ** / Longbow **
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    I feel that some people didn't understand the purpose of this thread.
    This is not about what you would pick, but -WHY- do you think it's the closest thing to the natural choice for the main protagonist...
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
    BelgarathMTH
  • JLeeJLee Member Posts: 650
    Moonheart wrote: »
    I feel that some people didn't understand the purpose of this thread.
    This is not about what you would pick, but -WHY- do you think it's the closest thing to the natural choice for the main protagonist...

    You may not find this helpful, but I believe every race/class/gender/alignment is justifiable and therefore possible. Intentionally limiting yourself out of the gate is not the raison d'etre of the whole RPG genre, imo. However, if it will enhance your experience of the game to approach it that way, then that trumps any ramblings of mine.
    JuliusBorisovArunsunmashedtatersBelgarathMTH
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    Sorcerer would fit pretty fine:
    "Blood of a powerful creature in their" thing
    Gorion's a mage, hence a good teacher
    Grum[Deleted User]mashedtaters
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    edited March 2016
    JLee wrote: »
    You may not find this helpful, but I believe every race/class/gender/alignment is justifiable and therefore possible. Intentionally limiting yourself out of the gate is not the raison d'etre of the whole RPG genre, imo. However, if it will enhance your experience of the game to approach it that way, then that trumps any ramblings of mine.

    I find that awfuly unhelpful, in fact. Did you read why I concern myself about all this?
    This is because it seems that most people who have voted in the poll would like to read such a playthrough


    @Grum : Great post!
    There are lot of interesting thoughts in it, and you are right about several things, like the lack of monastery inside to Candlekeep

    I've tried to sort things by grade of what are the most probably as a protagonist's class:

    Most natural choices (Gorion and/or Bhaal's influence):
    • Assassin
    • Mage (and kits)
    • Sorcerer (and kits)
    • Shadowdancer

    Easily explainable choice (Candlekeep's influence):
    • Archer
    • Bard (and kits)
    • Fighter (and kits other then Dwarven defender)
    • Thief (special: Imoen's influence)

    No true reasons to be or not be (no influence, but nothing that would make it impossible):
    • Bounty Hunter
    • Cleric (and kits)
    • Swashbuckler
    • Wild Mage

    Far stretched (Candlekeep is a bad place to learn):
    • Dwarven Defender
    • Paladin (and kits)
    • Stalker
    • Undead Hunter

    Complete non-sense (completely unrelated to Candlekeep):
    • Barbarian
    • Blackguard
    • Druid (and kits)
    • Monk (and kits)
    • Ranger (and Beastmaster)

    For multi an dual classing choices, the class with the lower probably define the probability of the multi/dual-classing as a whole.
    Ex: Even if there are things to train as a Fighter in Candlekeep, the protagonist could difficultly be a Fighter/Druid because there it's almost impossible to learn nature's ways by staying inside Candlekeep
    Post edited by Moonheart on
    [Deleted User]semiticgoddessGrum
  • JLeeJLee Member Posts: 650
    Moonheart wrote: »
    JLee wrote: »
    You may not find this helpful, but I believe every race/class/gender/alignment is justifiable and therefore possible. Intentionally limiting yourself out of the gate is not the raison d'etre of the whole RPG genre, imo. However, if it will enhance your experience of the game to approach it that way, then that trumps any ramblings of mine.

    I find that awfuly unhelpful, in fact. Did you read I concern myself about it?

    I might be more helpful if you could clarify exactly what was so "awfuly [sic] unhelpful" about my post. See, I do really enjoy being helpful ;)
    BelgarathMTHRaduzielillathidTarnfara
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    edited March 2016
    I ask what is the most natural choice, you answer everything is justifiable.
    Thanks captain obvious but that didn't make me progress a single step toward my goal.
    Post edited by Moonheart on
  • PK2748PK2748 Member Posts: 381
    edited March 2016
    Gorion claimed to be lovers with your mother so I'm actually thinking Half Orc and Dwarf are highly unlikely options. I think given the one temple we see in Candlekeep is to Oghma, I find Paladins other than Blackguard unlikely as there is no priesthood of note for paladin ready dieties and I think any cleric or paladin role would be off because I would assume a god would be somewhat hesitant of investing power in a mortal child of an enemy divinity. Sorcerors just have no place in 2nd edition. I think a quiet place like Candlekeep has no place for berserkers and western setting no place for kensai

    So I think Gorion is either way more twisted than the Harper's or Elminster want to admit or the character is human, half Elven or much more remotely an elf or Halfling. If you were a thief I think you'd know as much as Imoen so I'm saying straight fighter, wizard slayer, bard or mage.
    [Deleted User]Philhelm
  • JLeeJLee Member Posts: 650
    Moonheart wrote: »
    I ask what is the most natural choice, you answer everything is justifiable.
    Thanks captain obvious but that didn't make me progress a single step toward my goal.
    Fyi, I was being sarcastic. You asked for opinions. You want to make a huge deal out of a Canon run. The charname you are looking for is pregenerated and his name is Abdel. Have fun and I can't wait to read your play through. (That was sarcastic too ;))
    Tarnfara
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    edited March 2016
    I think your thought about the xp level of the character out of Candlekeep is very interesting @mashedtaters, but that's not truly how classes are supposed to work in D&D.
    XP 0 doesn't mean that your character had no former training. At XP 0 a mage can cast level 1 spells... and this is supposed to be something taking months of learning before someone succeed to do this.

    XP 0 is the point where the training of a character reach a sufficient level for him to manifest the traits of its class. So, even if the protagonist is at XP 0 when he starts in Candlekeep, as long he -has- a class, it means he have undergo a training of sorts.

    I do not feel then that it is unrealistic to say that the most natural classes for the protagonist are related to the place he have been raised in (training with mentors), and influence of his own blood (self-training using an inherited talent)



    Mostly, Imoen is a perfect exemple of this: she's Thief/Mage. Which is a bit of Bhaal's influence, a bit of Gorion's influence... with, in her case, much more of Gorion than Bhaal

    The most natural choices for the protagonist are for me things like that... which are on an axis between Assassin (pure son of Bhaal) and Mage (pure son of Gorion), with all the spectrum of variations between it: muti/dual between thief and mage kits, and hybrid class like shadowdancer, bards...



    Abdel? I don't give a damn. I'm not seeking to reproduce a character that almost every player despite in the role of the main protagonist of BG2. I'm seeking what would feel like the most natural protagonist in the eyes of the playerbase
    Grumsemiticgoddess
  • PhilhelmPhilhelm Member Posts: 473
    Philhelm wrote: »
    CHARNAME

    Gender: Male
    Race: Human
    Portrait: Male Human 2 (Canderous)
    Class: Fighter
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    Abilities: 18/00 Str; 18 Dex; 18 Con; 10 Int; 10 Wis; 10 Cha
    Proficiencies: Longsword ** / Longbow **

    To add, I suggested the above since it is the most generic for a fantasy setting.

    Male: The fantasy genre is still male dominated, and most fantasy stories feature a male protagonist.

    Human: Elves and dwarves are mystical races, so a human protagonist gives us a point of reference within the fantasy setting. Specifically in BG, the character's age would lead me to conclude that human is the best fit.

    Portrait: Male Human 2 is the most generically heroic portrait, and perfect for Charname.

    Class: Fighter. A fairly generic class that nonetheless allows for heroism. In BG, Charname does not appear to have any particular skill or training, but any man can pick up a sword and forge his destiny.

    Alignment: Lawful Good. While evil alignments are playable, the game obviously rewards the good path, which would be the mainstream way to play the game. In addition, Lawful Good is held in higher esteem than NG or CG, since LG starts with a higher reputation.

    Abilities: Generic min-maxing.

    Proficiencies: Perhaps the two most generic weapons. In addition, Longswords are given a lot of love in the series as opposed to other, less traditional weapons.


    [Deleted User]
  • antimatter3009antimatter3009 Member Posts: 24
    edited March 2016
    Moonheart wrote: »
    XP 0 is the point where the training of a character reach a sufficient level for him to manifest the traits of its class. So, even if the protagonist is at XP 0 when he starts in Candlekeep, as long he -has- a class, it means he have undergo a training of sorts.

    While I agree with you, I think the level 1 capabilities of any class can be explained away via travelers to Candlekeep and reading books. Mage probably takes the most training to reach 0 XP, so it might actually be the toughest to imagine if not for Gorion and all the other mages around. All the other classes are easy.

    Cleric: Traveling priest and/or books introduced you to a god, you built a shrine and became devout.

    Druid: Same as cleric, except a nature god specifically. Maybe you built yourself a tiny little nature shrine behind some shrubs or something.

    Ranger: Ranger skills at lvl 1 are pretty much fighter skills plus a terrible stealth ability. Any traveling ranger could teach you that much within Candlekeep's grounds.

    Paladin: Cross the cleric story with the right god and sprinkle in some fighter training and you have a lvl 1 paladin.

    The rest are pretty straightforward. Even kits that are a large stretch at the start of the game, like beast master, don't generally start with any abilities that are unbelievable. The beast master, for instance, doesn't get their animal summoning stuff until much later. Plenty of time to learn how to be a beast master on the road for that to still make sense. At the start, you're just like any other ranger with some restrictions, and your origin could be explained like any other.
    mashedtatersBelgarathMTHPhilhelmTarnfara
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    edited March 2016
    @BelgarathMTH
    Is it "be excellent to each other" to come in the thread of someone spending time to prepare a playthrough concept because other players of the forum have voted for it, and instead helping him, explain that his concept is stupid and denotes for a complete lack of comprehension of the raison d'etre of a RPG ?

    ... Seems so, since I'm the one spoken as being the black sheep here, with no less than 5 people agreeing with you instantly....

    OK, sorry to have disturb you all with my stupid idea then. I will not anymore... and go learn about RPG instead trying to do stupid playthroughs
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    Perhaps someone will do something like that someday
Sign In or Register to comment.