Bringing Tieflings (adding other Planetouched Races later) to BG1/2 & IWD1 (WIP)
rapsam2003
Member Posts: 1,636
Note: This thread is mainly a planning and tracking thread.
I always really enjoyed Tieflings, and I always had fun with characters like Haer'Dalis or the mod-created thief Amber or characters like Neeshka (NWN2 rogue). I greatly enjoyed playing a Tiefling in NWN2, and I look forward to playing one in Sword Coast Legends. I also like to play Tieflings in P&P D&D games.
One thing I was always disappointed in, however, was that one cannot play a Tiefling in BG1/2 or IWD1/2. Of course, it makes sense that Tieflings would be rather rare in the Sword Coast. Also, iirc, Tieflings were not really available as a race until D&D3.5. That said, I think it actually could work to roleplay a tiefling in either of the sagas. A Tiefling Bhaalspawn is not too far-fetched (no more far-fetched than your character being a Bhaalspawn in the 1st place). If we assume that your dead mother was a warlock or sorceress of some kind, it makes it even more possible in my mind.
It's a little more hazy bringing a Tiefling into the frozen north, but it could be done with proper care towards roleplay. Maybe a tiefling would be fleeing from Waterdeep or Baldur's Gate or Westgate. If we assume such, a Tiefling might come to Ten Towns after hearing the call for mercenaries.
I would also like to add other Planetouched races, such as Aasimar, Air Genasi, Earth Genasi, Fire Genasi, and Water Genasi.
Here's the races I will be adding. All ability adjustments and bonuses are based on the 2E rules and balanced for BGEE. Thanks to Kamigoroshi and subtledoctor for helping with descriptions.
* Tieflings:
**This is meant to help out Tiefling fighters. Because Tiefling fighters will never have greater than 17 Strength (this is Canon in the Planeswalker Handbook), a +2 to melee weapon damage will help them out.
* Aasimar
* Air Genasi
List coming soon
* Earth Genasi
List coming soon
* Fire Genasi
List coming soon
* Water Genasi
List coming soon
This mod will be expanded to SoD, BG2EE, & IWDEE later.
Y'all have any thoughts or suggestions?
I always really enjoyed Tieflings, and I always had fun with characters like Haer'Dalis or the mod-created thief Amber or characters like Neeshka (NWN2 rogue). I greatly enjoyed playing a Tiefling in NWN2, and I look forward to playing one in Sword Coast Legends. I also like to play Tieflings in P&P D&D games.
One thing I was always disappointed in, however, was that one cannot play a Tiefling in BG1/2 or IWD1/2. Of course, it makes sense that Tieflings would be rather rare in the Sword Coast. Also, iirc, Tieflings were not really available as a race until D&D3.5. That said, I think it actually could work to roleplay a tiefling in either of the sagas. A Tiefling Bhaalspawn is not too far-fetched (no more far-fetched than your character being a Bhaalspawn in the 1st place). If we assume that your dead mother was a warlock or sorceress of some kind, it makes it even more possible in my mind.
It's a little more hazy bringing a Tiefling into the frozen north, but it could be done with proper care towards roleplay. Maybe a tiefling would be fleeing from Waterdeep or Baldur's Gate or Westgate. If we assume such, a Tiefling might come to Ten Towns after hearing the call for mercenaries.
I would also like to add other Planetouched races, such as Aasimar, Air Genasi, Earth Genasi, Fire Genasi, and Water Genasi.
Here's the races I will be adding. All ability adjustments and bonuses are based on the 2E rules and balanced for BGEE. Thanks to Kamigoroshi and subtledoctor for helping with descriptions.
* Tieflings:
- +1 INT, +1 CHR, -1 STR, -1 WIS; +1 CON, -1DEX*
- Infravision
- 10% Resistance to cold, electricity, and fire
- +2 to saves vs. Death/Poison and Wands
- +2 Melee weapon damage Bonus**
- Thief skill adjustments:
PP OL FT MS HS DI ST +5% +10% +10% +5%
**This is meant to help out Tiefling fighters. Because Tiefling fighters will never have greater than 17 Strength (this is Canon in the Planeswalker Handbook), a +2 to melee weapon damage will help them out.
* Aasimar
- +1 STR, -2 CON, +1 WIS
- Infravision
- +2 saves vs. spells
- 10% magic resistance
- Thief skill adjustments:
PP OL FT MS HS DI ST +10% +5% +10% +5%
* Air Genasi
List coming soon
* Earth Genasi
List coming soon
* Fire Genasi
List coming soon
* Water Genasi
List coming soon
This mod will be expanded to SoD, BG2EE, & IWDEE later.
Y'all have any thoughts or suggestions?
Post edited by rapsam2003 on
3
Comments
Here is the AD&D second edition entry of the Tiefling race. They have been around since 1994.
True, but we don't really have them in the other games.
This stuff is great. Thanks!
Yeah but IWD2 was based on third edition wasn't it?
*Using the same colors as human; does that matter?
It won't be too long before I package this up as a WeiDU install.
I believe it was. Also, it's interesting because IWDEE is kind of a "v2.3-ish", because they gave you the options to use some things from 3.0.
IWD:EE will receive such fanciness as well. But probably at a later date.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=3GwjfUFyY6M
Also, more hybrids than just half-elves and half-orcs (maybe make a mix and match thing where you just select "Hybrid" as race and then pick two of the standard races). Aasimar and Genasi, too.
Though I guess making a mod like that would be a lot of work :X
Not to mention that the NPC companions would have to be redone as well (i.e Xan > moon elf, Alora > lightfoot halfling, Yeslik > shield dwarf, etc.)
*Sigh*
The other issue was balance with Viconia and Haer'dalis. MR changing above vs below ground is pnp, but not what Viconia does so even if I could do it, I'd feel like I had to change her too.
See here for the PlaneswalkerHandbook for 2E: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kzyqo06h4jryzun/PlanewalkersHandbook_2E.pdf?dl=0
There's no way in hell I'm adding Bariaur or Rogue Modrons (both are listed in the PlaneswalkerHandook). Adventures set in the Sword Coast region have no reason to have those as race choices. No, it’s more that…there aren’t really any PLAYER races in the PlayerHandbook that are hybrids besides Half-Elf and Half-Orc. There are hybrids in the monster manual. Example: Ogrillions, iirc, are half-ogres. But why would a player play an Ogrillion? None of the armor would work. Most weapons would be like sticks for such a character. An Ogrillion would walk into town (unless we’re talking the ONE exception: Sigil, City of Doors), and everyone would either flee or try to rally the guard. In terms of “making sense”, a lot of hybrids are just not going to work.
See the PlayersHandbook for 2E here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/v034u7t8c7dn3s7/PlayersHandbook_2E.PDF?dl=0
Warning: The cover of the 2E PHB is NSFW.
As I said before, I may add Aasimar, Githyanki/Githzerai (undecided on these 2), and Gensai. According to 2E rules, a Moon Elf is acknowledged as a specific kind of elf. Elven subraces were NOT a thing in 2E. Even Drow were just “elves”. All elves, regardless of subrace, got the same stat adjustments, racials, etc. It was up to *the player* to roleplay their character in such a way that your elf was a Moon Elf or Drow or Wood Elf, etc. -- and the caveat to that was whether the DM even let you choose to be anything besides a "High Elf", which was considered the most common type of elf in 2E.
Similarly, Dwarves were just "Dwarves". There wasn't "Gold Dwarf" or "Shield Dwarf" or "Duergar" (dark dwarf). Technically, it *is* now possible, BUT there are some caveats. I’m working through the issues for those now. The biggest issue I’m working through (and I’m unsure if I can overcome this, because it may be hardcoded) is allowing the player to select these races on the character selection screen. I really, really would hate to tell folks, “Use EEKeeper and change your race to Tiefling”. But we’ll see what happens. Yes, half-fiends are another thing, folks. Curious folks see:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Half-fiend
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Cambion
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Alu-fiend
Several other races have planetouched hybrids too.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Fey'ri
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Draegloth
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tanarukk
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Maeluth
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Wispling
Technically, the PlaneswalkerHandbook says tieflings can have multiple bonuses or disadvantages or even multiple “demonic features”. However, I have decided (mostly due to simplicity) that just giving tieflings 50% cold resistance is what’s happening. Even doing this is a pain.
Basically, I'm just adding a permanent spell "behind the scenes" for all Tieflings that gives the bonus. It's similar to how equipping a helmet protects the character from critical hits, except obviously you'll never lose the bonus. But there's several thing that I'm doing to link the hidden spell to each class (because spells aren't really linkable to race in the EE engine, as far I know). If I can add tieflings in the way that I want, then I will add gensai presented as they are in the PlaneswalkerHandbook. The handbook never presented them as some kind of crazy half-elementals. They’re just another race of half-humans with lineage characeristics. I can kind of get behind this in a general way. However…
- As I mentioned, elven subraces weren’t a thing in 2E. I could still see Drow as being implemented as a "subrace" though.
- the poor vision thing was generally presented as -1 to hit in most versions of D&D, iirc (which translates to adding +1 THACO in 2E, I think)
- Why would Drow be any different than other elves in terms of magic resistance?
Agreed! This seems sensible to me. How did you handle dungeons then? In a dark dungeon, it doesn’t matter if it’s high noon or midnight; everyone still needs torches or darkvision (“infravision” in 2E).See the 2E player’s handbook. I could see them having “reduced” magic resistance on the surface, but…that sounds like a pain. Also, considering how “stock” Elves currently are, it kind of doesn’t make sense to me.
Sidenote: Is your mod available somewhere? I’d really like to use it.
It probably won't work with SoD, but my kits can be found here:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/49591/mod-eldritch-magic-bgee-bg2ee-iwdee#latest
So, you created the Drow race as part of Viconia's "kit"? Interesting.
It's actually a Priestess of Lolth kit, and Vicky worships Shar, but I mention her bc she's the only drow character, but she defies PnP, so rather than change her, I simply modeled mine a little after her. PnP drow have all sorts of abilities in Underdark and penalties both above ground and in bright light anywhere, so it's a bit more complicated than changing sex, skin color, and magic resistance - which is mostly what I did.
Also I remember from my Core Rules 2nd Edition DM cd, that Half-Ogres were a playable race alongside Half-Orcs. Granted they were a bit limited, but I imagine BG2 would be more fair, plus, ya know, Shaman class.
Half-ogres may be NPCs or even PCs, with DM's consent. If so, they have statistics determined in the
following fashion. Strength is ld6 +13, with a roll of 6 being treated as 18(00) strength. Characters with a
Strength roll of 5 (18 strength) should roll normally for extraordinary strength. Dexterity is 3d4.
Constitution is ld6 +13, with a roll of 6 being treated as an 18. Intelligence is 3d4. Wisdom is 2d6.
Charisma is 2d4, doubled for effective Charisma with respect to ogres, half-ogres, orcs, orogs, and other
humanoids. Half-ogres reared outside of the tribes do not gain the languages mentioned earlier. Player
character half-ogres may not be exclusively priests, but may practice any other class allowed half-ogres.
Starting Hit Dice are doubled at 1st level, progressing normally at 2nd level and above.
As NPCs, shaman half-ogres are fighter/priests. Also possible are half-ogres that function solely as
priests, rising to 8th level, and rarely seen fighter/thieves (3+9 Hit Dice with the skills of 1st- or 2ndlevel
thieves). Half-ogre thieves are always self-taught, and accept the following racial adjustments: Pick
Pockets -20%, Open Locks +5%, Find/Remove Traps +0%, Move Silently -5%, Hide in Shadows +5%,
Detect Noise +0%, Climb Walls -30%, Read Languages -25%."
http://orkerhulen.dk/DnD 5th/TSR 2140B Monstrous Manual.pdf
Sidenote: Also, that wasn't in the PlayerHandbook, but rather a monster manual. In essence, Half-ogre PCs aren't considered canon, whereas Tieflings are considered cannon in the PlanescapeHandbook.
Anyhow, I've dusted off my monster manual, and browsing through it, I can find various subraces for both elf and dwarf. Of course, it begs the question if there is really a need between, say, a hill dwarf and a mountain dwarf. Also note that the core books aren't set in Faerun, so technically you'd have to look in the Campaign setting, but I'm not sure those campaign settings actually had any stats, or if they just gave some descriptions. Even in 3rd edition, it's pretty tricky to find the right stats for Faerun races.
Anyhow, I'd go with races that makes sense and are possible to implement. Something to keep in mind is that you're probably not planning to create new graphics for the races. Aasimar and Tieflings could look like humans with different colors, Drow and Duergar could look like dwarves and elves with different colors, Orcs could look like half-orcs. Genasi could look like humans or elves or perhaps a different race for each element (Dwarf-Earth, Human-Water, Elf-Air, Halfling-Fire?), again with different skin colors.
Races like Drider and Aquatic Elf are obviously out. Half-Ogre... I guess you could use human or half-orc looks for them. They would obviously still be able to wear humansized gear. In most of the newer editions, half-ogres are large, though, which provides all kinds of benefits and disadvantages that are impossible to implement.
So for any new races, you'd have to wonder "Does this actually need to be a new race, or is it so close to the original race, that it's basically the same thing?"
You're already implementing Tieflings.
Aasimar would be the next logical step as they are the counter to Tieflings.
Genasi could be interesting, get the whole planetouched set complete.
Drow sorta make sense, considering there's already 2 drow in the game.
If you implement Drow, then Duergar are closely tied.
Since Half-Orcs are already in, implementing Orcs should be pretty easy as well.
I see no logical other race to consider, and you may consider some of those races rather pointless to implement.
Anyhow, you mentioned that the biggest obstacle is the ability to choose the race during character creation. 2.0 should allow more UI customization than before, so who knows.
I guess checking to see if you can implement the Tiefling properly, and allowing players to pick it during character creation is the most logical to focus on. Once one race is implemented properly, other races should be relatively easy (except of course for special features such as light blindness).
(I don't know. That handbook is actually a compilation of several D&D2E handbooks. I'm only using the PHB as source material for this mod.) Yeah, but the monster manual is not the same as the player handbook. The player handbook intends that, without DM approval, you play an elf as a “High Elf” in D&D2E. And all elves have the same stats. If someone wants to have mods with subraces like moon elf or whatnot, then there are mods for that. No idea if they work, but they do exist.
Iirc, the 2E PHB had the Forgotten Realms as the setting. The Sword Coast (part of Faerun) is included within the planet Abeir-Toril. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgotten_Realms#Advanced_Dungeons_.26_Dragons_2nd_edition Yup, planned to do it this way. Bingo. Not adding them. I would argue that one also needs to consider whether such a race is so rare that it would make no sense. For instance, the Fey’ri are so rare that ForgottenRealmsWiki mentions how they were basically hunted down to extinction.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Fey'ri Races like tieflings and Aasimar are mentioned as having populations in several lands at the same site, being especially common in Mulhorand and Unther:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tieflings#Homelands
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Aasimar#Homelands
Genasi were also mentioned as having populations in a few lands, specifically Calimshan and the continent of Zakhara. Hell, the below URL even mentions how when the Spellplague occurred (in 4E), that the populations of Genasi were so numerous in Calimshan that a civil war between them turn Calimshan into a wartorn waste. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Genasi#Homelands
Not doing Duergar or Orcs.
I may decide, at some point to implement the idea of changing the text for Drow on the character sheet. In other words, the stats would all be the same, but Viconia’s character sheet would show “Drow” in place of “Elf”. Similarly, Xan’s character sheet might be edited; undecided on that, since it’s not mentioned as huge thing. By contrast, Viconia’s race IS mentioned as a huge thing. Who knows, like you say…
If I cannot add them to player cc, then there is a way to make it work. Apparently, back in 2013, someone created a “subrace mod” for BGEE. The way they got around the fact that you could not add new races to the selection screen was that they created an NPC who “explored your origins” in Candlekeep. I have not examined their code yet. But I would assume that their mod just made it such that if you selected to be a kind of “subrace”, the origins NPC’s dialogue fired off a script that changed everything for that subrace. So, choosing a tiefling did the following:
I don’t like this implementation, as it’s kind of overpowered and not canon, imho. Plus, tieflings could actually have any skin color. Tieflings were varied in appearance and mannerism, in the same way that humans are. Since you seem kind of knowledgeable on this, any thoughts on tieflings? As I said in the OP, looking for suggestions.
I can justify the idea of tieflings based on what's known about the Forgotten Realms: Furthermore: This idea also applies to Half-Ogres. Without DM approval, you CANNOT be a Half-Ogre in D&D2E. I see no reason to make Half-Ogres available as a player character race choice.
As for knowledgeable, I haven't really ever tried modding BG, so really can't help you there.
Unless you mean background knowledge... I've switched to 3rd the moment it came out, and honestly, looking through the 2nd edition books, there's really little information as to what stats these races have. It's really a lot of "You should play one of the 6 base races. If you want to play a different race, you need your DMs approval, as well as ask your DM what racial abilities to use."
I'd probably use the 3rd edition rules as a base for ideas (BG uses plenty of 3rd edition stuff already):
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/planetouched.htm
That said, I have no idea what is and is not possible. Stuff like ability score modifiers should be easy, IF you can add them to the UI, but if you need a workaround, like talking to an NPC, it could mean that the racial modifiers would make you no longer meet the requirements of your current race. Then what?