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Patch 2.0. - feedback and questions

MivsanMivsan Member Posts: 138
Hello,

Please excuse my ignorance (things might have been explained elsewhere, but now there's 170+ pages of the main SoD thread alone) and slightly annoyed tone that is sure to emerge from between the lines - I haven't been following the development of SoD and the 2.0. patch as I've had no interest in it. However, the patch hit me today by surprise (before I read that there's an option to opt for a 1.3. beta on Steam - thank you for that, by the way!) and to say the least - I'm shocked, confused, perplexed. The patch changed so many things, mostly for the worse, that I have to ask: what happened? And most importantly, how much of that can I revert through options, mods and ini commands (well, baldur.lua now, it seems)?

First off, the UI and general look:
- Is there a way to remove the Borderlands-like outlines on my characters? When I first saw how everything looked, I was horrified - is this Baldur's Gate: Telltale Games Edition? Even after I've turned off sprite outlines, highlights and whatever else in an attempt to restore the old look, it's still different, the characters still have outlines and look blurry. Screenshots for comparison - old and new. Can't I simply have the 1.3. look back?
- I see that I can turn off the new selection circles (that make it look like there's something wrong with the perspective) which is nice. However, even when the "classic" ones are enabled, the circles and ground markers are different than before - I liked the nice and clean double-circles. Not a big thing, but can't I simply have the 1.3. circles back?
- Where is the rolling piece of parchment when you highlight an item or character? Now, there's some alien-looking neutral plain gray box instead. How could you have removed such an iconic thing? Can't I simply have my 1.3. rolling parchment back?
- Why were the clicking sounds, so characteristic to Baldur's Gate, removed from so many activities they were tied to for 20 years? Like right clicking an item to see its description or assigning stats during character creation? Can't I simply have my old clicking sounds back?
- Switched saved game order? For 20 years, the newest saves were on the bottom, now it's upside down. Why? Can't I simply have my 1.3. save order back?
- Minor thing - different font. It seems like my setup I've had in baldur.ini does not work, but I guess I could make it happen through editing baldur.lua? Can't I simply have my 1.3. font size back? Well, in this case, I think I just might! Too bad it's the most minor of my complaints.


More specific UI stuff:
- Inventory is laggy and you can't use mouse scroll to scroll up/down when there are a lot of items on the ground. Instead there are pages. Why? Can't I simply have my old 1.3. inventory back?
- Dialogue window - again, no mouse scroll usage to simply scroll around. Instead, I have to now open the upper thingy and have another, small part of the chat window where I can use the mouse scroll. Why? It worked perfectly fine before! Can't I simply have my old 1.3. dialogue system back?
- The spell menus are so much worse. Being able to see the spells in a list, sorted by alphabetical order sounds like a nice, OPTIONAL thing to include, but to change the whole spellbook/cleric scroll feel and implement this horrendous looking, small row of icons of memorized spells just makes me wonder - why? Even such a basic thing as memorizing a spell requires more clicks now - it seems you can't simply click on a spell to have it memorized. Instead, you have to select it, then click "memorize" and only then it works. Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but that doesn't seem like improving anything. Have fun switching many spells for different encounters/dungeons. Can't I simply have my 1.3. spell menus back? -- Edit here: actually, a single click works if you click on the spell ICON, but not on the spell NAME. Wow.
- Character info - I've seen that there are already threads about that, with polls indicating that most preferred the 1.3. look so I'm not going to go into it. But still - can't I simply have my 1.3. character info back?

Removal of lists:
- Am I to understand that the new, "improved" way to assign a custom portrait to a character is to click one by one through my list of 300+ portraits, instead of quickly scrolling through a list, looking for a specific NAME I made for a portrait I wanted to use? What sense does that make? Can't I simply have my 1.3. portait list back?
- Another list removed - while improting a character for a new game, the list of character files, with NAMES I remembered them by (as I was the one who made and named those files in the first place!) is now replaced by generic showcase of portaits with minimal info. What happened to the simple convenience of seeing file names - was it too easy to choose what character I wanted to import and so it was made into a challenge of its own? Can't I simply have my old 1.3. import list back?
- I really can't get over that. Is the intended way to have easy access to a portrait/import character is to name it like "zzz01" so it's the last one and thus, appearing as first when you scroll left while choosing a portrait? Just explaining that sounds convoluted beyond any necessity, especially compared to how easy it used to be for 20 years.


In general, it seems like most of those changes were forced. Completely unnecessary, but introduced so that "something's different". Change for the sake of change. Slightly different look of saved games + reversed order, zooming in and out when activating the minimap, different selection circles. Why, why, why?

I really appreciate the options to turn off things like health bars, journal pop-ups and other ridiculous "innovations", but that's not enough. The UI isn't "highly customizable", as it was described in some threads I've read. There are a few options, but most changes seem to be unrevertable.

It would be nice to enjoy some of the new features like the fixed "seletion sound upon failed banter" bug, achievements or easier weapon switching, but as it stands now, unless you wonderful people can provide me with some baldur.lua info or mods, I think the only thing left is to revert to 1.3. through the beta option on Steam and forget the new patch even happened. This isn't a satisfactory solution for the long term, however, so if there's any knowledge about the above topics anyone could share, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thank you!


Edit - just for completeness sake, I'll include some more things I wanted to comment on after playing some more, from my later post on page 2:

General thoughts:
- It was mentioned before, but the swapped location of done/save/load and cancel buttons is pretty annoying. Why would you do that after years of having it the other way? I constantly keep canceling out of actions I want to perform, out of muscle memory/habit guiding my hand.
- The locations on the world map are in different places. For example, the area south of High Hedge (the one with Bassilus and Melicamp) appears way to the west. It makes no sense. Also, look where Durlag's Tower is - I know it was south of Firewine in vanilla, but was it displayed over there in EE? That's one thing I don't remember precisely. In a different thread, I've read that you can't uncover/travel to some locations from places you could before, but I haven't encountered that myself. I didn't explore everything in this short run, though.
- Speaking of traveling, I've noticed there are many other entrance places added. I'm neutral to that change. It feels weird, but it's not a negative thing. Maybe with the exception of the Gnoll Stronghold, when you enter from the north. You can skip the bridge with the 2 ogrillion guys altogether, while it has always seemed to be the intended encounter you had to beat to reach the stronghold.
- It was also mentioned before in this or other threads, but being able to scroll beyond the area map borders is not a good idea.
- The cutscene with Charleston Nib is weird - his pathfinding makes him go back to the other rooms and you have to wait for him for quite a while, being stuck in that cinematic mode. Not a big deal, it was always a crowdy place and difficult for the whole party to get through the doors, but it's something to correct. Tried that twice, so it seems consistent. Never had that happen before, and I usually have a full party, which should have made things even more difficult for poor Charleston.

Inventory:
- When you take an item out of a stack, it appears way further from the cursor, above and to the right of it. The screenshot isn't that great, as it doesn't have the hand cursor displayed. I tried to indicate where it was and it's an easy enough thing to check for yourselves.
- Bug: something like this happened to me when I was ordering my characters to drink a potion in the inventory screen and switching between them using number keys.


Achievements:
- There are some embarassing typos for some of them like "side with ALDEST Sashenstar", "bring TANYA's possessions", "unpetrify CAMAH" (should be Aldeth, Tenya and Tamah of course)... Also, one achievement correctly mentions Silke, while the other - Silkie. But really, ALDEST? TANYA? :+D Were those descriptions done by someone who has never played the game before?
- Some of the achievements are bugged - the one for completing Chapter 4 (kill Davaeorn and flood the mine) never triggered for me, tried it two times without success. The achievement to bring Tenya's bowl only triggered when I entered Baldur's Gate city. I thought it wouldn't work at all, after trying it two times, so I just proceeded with the game as usual and was surprised when it popped up after arriving in the eastern district of BG.

Sounds:
- Some sounds are different than before - for example the miners in the Cloakwood Mine have a different groan. It doesn't affect the experience in any way, but I fail to see the point of changing them to something else after all these years.
- Some NPCs are silent now. I suspect something went wrong and their intended voiced line isn't playing properly. Drasus, the Flaming Fist guy and Scar on the bridge to Baldur's Gate didn't play their line when initiating their dialogue.

More graphics feedback:
- Here are my settings - everything turned off. And this is how the game looks - example 1, example 2. You can't tell me you don't see how different the characters look. Not only is there an outline, but they are blurry and the colors/contrast is different. Look at Eltan's armor, for instance.
- The portraits of recruitable NPCs are different, too. They're sharper, while before they were blurry. Now their avatars in the game are blurry instead. A switcheroo!
- Ashideena's lightning damage effect is also different, the sparks having a big black outline. Another example of some fundamental graphics change that affects everything, I guess.


Another edit:
Again, for completeness sake, links to my other important posts on page 4 about:
- The revert to version 1.3. being completly broken.
- A huge wall of text about BG2:EE 2.0. bugs and poorly though out features.

Post edited by Mivsan on
helmo1977IthualwubbleBelgarathMTHVitorEnvygamesFlashburnCluasdibDarkDoggMusaabOrlonKronsteenDamianusatakdogValamirCleaverMerric
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Comments

  • HekatoncheiresHekatoncheires Member Posts: 9
    The map zoom is jarring and vertigo inducing. :/

    lroumenRavenslight
  • BelegCuthalionBelegCuthalion Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 418
    well, change is hard, but about half you dislike i actually like a lot, and i don't like other things instead ...

    having everything optional is no real option for a dev team, as each option and each possible combination of options have to be tested and supported if official ...
    some things you adress are changeable with baldur.lua, others with the new interface system, others with mods (which is easier than before), and again others will be improved in 2.1 patches (knowing that 2.0 had to be brought to public "as good it is", as SoD is at the horizon and can't be held back forever). but is is very likely that not everyhting will be possible to be reverted to exactly 1.3 state in fine grain. that's just not maintainable for the devs.


    if you are specifically talking about BG2:EE (which appears to be the case, seeing your ToB screenshots), you also should have a look at BG1:EEs current character screen, which is a semi-reverted variant with new 2.0 features and older 1.3 look which was designed by 00zim00 forum member and taken over by beamdog rather last minute for BG1:EE, but it did not make it anymore into BG2:EEs 2.0 (yet).

    illathid
  • shaldonshaldon Member Posts: 31
    edited March 2016
    Mivsan - you probably should have helped beta test and given this feeback much earlier, than wait until after the patch is out to make the post. Now you'll have to wait. A long time.

    The sprite outlines can be turned off in the graphics options menu by the way, so that's not a problem.

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 1,772
    edited March 2016
    it looks like the mods are broken. wanted to test the baldurs gate mini encounters mod to see if quest mods would work with the new journal. and it crashes the game after the 3rd line with linda in the inn. looks like i'm gonna be going in vanilla until this gets sorted out.

  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 789
    I'm afraid the short answer is "no" and "re-mod it back in yourself"

  • ZeshinXZeshinX Member Posts: 65
    The selection of a custom portrait in 2.0 is absolute crap. Really, it's absolutely awful. All it needed to be improved over 1.3 was a slider bar to the side of the list of available custom portraits. That's it.

    You done borked that element of 2.0 at least Beamdog. You done borked that real good.

    MivsanValamirCleaver
  • MivsanMivsan Member Posts: 138
    edited March 2016


    some things you adress are changeable with baldur.lua, others with the new interface system, others with mods (which is easier than before)

    That's specifically what I'm asking about. From what I've read here and there it seems there are way more commands now in baldur.lua, so I'm curious if you could revert some of the changes I'm describing. Same with mods - there might be some already done or on the horizon that people might know about and I'm not aware of.

    And for clarity - I've checked both games, it's just that I only had that pre-2.0. screenshot with the exact saved game available in BG2 to show examples of what I'm talking about.

    Just a quick bonus note, while speaking about BG2:EE's character info screen - I just wanted to check what my Reputation was - of course, it couldn't be as easy as before, so I checked all over and found it under "Proficiencies" :+D - together with actual weapon proficiencies and number of atacks per round.
    shaldon said:

    Mivsan - you probably should have helped beta test and given this feeback much earlier, than wait until after the patch is out to make the post. Now you'll have to wait. A long time.

    The sprite outlines can be turned off in the graphics options menu by the way, so that's not a problem.

    I've described the outline issue with screenshots, it looks like you haven't read that one closely enough.

    As for beta testing - perhaps you're right, but I've had and still have no interest in SoD, I'm not planning to buy it and just didn't follow any developments. I wasn't aware such drastic changes would occur and hoped you'd be able to customize more if anything bad happens.

    I'm afraid the short answer is "no" and "re-mod it back in yourself"

    Again, that's what I'm asking for - any info about modding stuff back to how it was is greatly appreciated!



    In other news, I've played a bit more with 2.0. and already spotted quite a few bugs. Alt-tabbing makes you fully zoom out, getting potions out of the potion case is buggy if you have more than one stack (stolen and "legal") of the same type, achievements don't seem to work properly in BG2:EE (for instance, achieved a lower than -15 AC and had Luck, Chant and Bless on and didn't get any of those, worked fine in BG:EE). And those are just some I've discovered during the first 20 minutes of playing. I mean, come on.

    Post edited by Mivsan on
    BelgarathMTHDarkDoggValamirCleaver
  • namutreenamutree Member Posts: 2
    I'm having trouble even accessing my custom portraits since installing SoD. Does anyone know what's going on?

  • prairiechickenprairiechicken Member Posts: 149
    edited March 2016
    Well few problems I had:

    My potion bag disappeared and when I tried to clua it back cheating didn't work for some reason.

    I cannot ESC out of vendors.

    The map markers sometimes go outside of the map and I can't read them (ex in underdark southern caverns text is cut out of the screen)

    When I delete memorized spells it gives no warning, even though I turned the option on.

    Difficulty slider keeps resetting to easy.

    The map zooming delay - I hate it, I have to wait for while until I can use the map

    Problems found so far during my ~30 min gameplay.

    BelgarathMTHValamirCleaver
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 1,772
    ignore the mod thing. i had an older version and that was what was causeing the crash.

    now for something important. am i the only one who has a weird lag delay when going to the map?

  • helmo1977helmo1977 Member Posts: 360
    edited March 2016
    I agree with the op, Especially regarding ui changes. When i first saw the characters I was horrified. Even after switching the black borders off the thinog doesnt go. It is bearable, but it adds nothing, imho.

    Same goes for the looooooong lists of stats and all that. It is a complete mess.

    I like the map and journal. Thise look and feel well. However, in the map there is a small bug. If you uncheck the map markers, when you get out of map view and then get into it again, the map markers come back.

    The scrolls should make it back (i mean, the scrolls the op talked about).

    In general terms I think some changes seem to have been made for the sake of changing.

    Oh, and the new text boxes. They are.... Argggggghhhhhh¡

    Ps. All this playing bg ee 1

    Ps. By the way, anybody knows what is the file that i ahve found in the override floder? It wasnt there before, i know for sure

    BelgarathMTHMivsanValamirCleaver
  • helmo1977helmo1977 Member Posts: 360

    Well few problems I had:



    Difficulty slider keeps resetting to easy.

    y.

    Could anybody else check this? (I am going to bed now)

    Because that is a VERY SERIOUS bug. It can make the game boring as hell from the difficulty point of view.

    BelgarathMTH
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 789
    BG1EE uses the SoD theme for me (black stone)

    typo_tillyBelgarathMTH
  • IllydthIllydth Member, Developer Posts: 1,641
    There seem to be a lot of minor bug reports happening here. We're happy to look at and address anything you guys find. Please take a look at the Road to 2.0 Board on these forums and follow the instructions on posting bug reports. Once you've got a bug ticket in the system, we'll be happy to take a look and get it put in front of Project Management to get scheduled.

    Obviously as usual no promises on a fix timeframe, but at least with a bug report in you can be pretty sure someone knows about it! :smile:

    StormvesselJuliusBorisov
  • StormvesselStormvessel Member Posts: 654
    OK, my difficulty keeps resetting from core rules back to normal. Also, I can't get custom portraits to work. Those are the only problems so far. I am going to reroll and abandon my priest because I want to minimize complications. So fresh character for fresh version. Hopefully I won't run into too many bugs.

  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,672
    edited April 2016
    The difficulty resetting now is so odd. It's been reported.

    Portrait request to scroll through portraits has been made.

    Map markers being cut off at the sides of the screen has been reported.

    Hitting Escape to leave vendors has been reported.

    ... Bag disappearing is a new one? :/


    EDIT
    Reported:
    No prompt warning you after you click to remove a memorised spell when the "More Confirmation Prompts" option is on.

    BelgarathMTHJuliusBorisov
  • illathidillathid Member Posts: 320
    @Mivsan you need to reload a save after disabling the Sprite outline for it to turn off. As for general complaints about the sprites, they also changed the scaling algorithm. I like the new version better but there's already a request to add the old scaling in as an option.

  • SkaroseSkarose Member Posts: 247
    The lighthouse/Sirens/Safana map is missing on my first game, my poor half orc heard tales of his Con possibly going up to 20. Now he's just a sad and lonely 19 Con brute. Safana was going to keep him company...

  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,672
    Damn. :( I wonder if a direction was cut off from one zone? I'm able to open up the lighthouse map by going north in the zone to the south of the lighthouse. Try that route?


  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,934
    edited April 2016

    Damn. :( I wonder if a direction was cut off from one zone? I'm able to open up the lighthouse map by going north in the zone to the south of the lighthouse. Try that route?


    Noticed this one a couple of days ago myself. Its reported internally as #22065

    typo_tilly
  • ZeshinXZeshinX Member Posts: 65
    Some feedback on the Record screen. Where it shows "Ready to Level Up" all nice and flashy....might as well make that clickable to perform the level up. I mean it's all flashy and reeks of "Click on me to level up!".

    Easy enough to wander to the left to level up....but yeesh.

    illathidValamirCleaver
  • prairiechickenprairiechicken Member Posts: 149
  • Sylvus_MoonbowSylvus_Moonbow Member Posts: 988

    Damn. :( I wonder if a direction was cut off from one zone? I'm able to open up the lighthouse map by going north in the zone to the south of the lighthouse. Try that route?


    Um. Why are some regions listed with travel time, and others not?

    BelgarathMTH
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,672
    edited April 2016
    I think they were highlighting named places overs wilderness zones. Also, I loaded an old save to test the lighthouse approach (the lighthouse map _does_ appear if you approach from the north end of the south zone), so the labels may or may not be what you see in the current version.

  • Sylvus_MoonbowSylvus_Moonbow Member Posts: 988

    I think they were highlighting named places overs wilderness zones.

    Ah. I see.

    Well, I'm part of the, either you do it, or you don't. It just comes off as an inconsistency with such scattered information made available to the player.

    The "Destination Unreachable" over a light gray icon is such an insult. Do developers think players are that stupid they can't tell the difference between an illuminated destination icon and a grayed out one?

    Sorry, I don't have any information regarding your issue, but it's good you can still get there. My current play through had already visited that region, so my own map allows travel regardless of direction.

    I should add, I am very pleased with a lot of the changes I've seen, but the world map ...

    Travel safe brave warrior @typo_tilly.

    Flashburntypo_tillyBelgarathMTH
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,672
    edited April 2016
    @prairiechicken I've updated the map label ticket with your map.

    @ZeshinX I've made a feature request about the level up button. I agree it's confusing to have 2 level up buttons, with 1 obvious and 1 out-of-the-way while only the latter brings up the level up window.

    @Sylvus_Moonbow Yeah, I agree that some of those ease-of-use options should be turned off for players who aren't completely new to the game. :)

  • VitorVitor Member Posts: 286
    You pointed it out perfectly, @Mivsan. I think they shouldn't made this changes so arbitrarily.

    Have you entered in Baldur's Gate II after the new patch? I always loved the classical design for Character Sheets, and now it's completely hideous. The character sheet design works fine for Siege of Dragonspear, despite the reservations very well explained by you... But I really can't understand why they opt to rework the design for Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn, or even for Baldur's Gate I, when you're not playing Siege of Dragonspear.

    ValamirCleaver
  • EnvygamesEnvygames Member Posts: 57
    I honestly can make peace with the new Sprites over time, those awefull healthbars you can at least disable...but my goodness the UI is ugly as hell. Most changes feel so unneeded. What they did to the Portrait-System for me is the worst thing regarding the Patch...if you have more than 20 Portraits its already a Pain to find the one you want for your character...i have 200+...holy shit.

    @Stormvessel: i had the same Prob too. Keept changing the difficulty to "Story Mode" (btw making God-Mode a difficulty-setting seems to me like the worst Idea EVER). Fix is to change the Difficulty Setting to what you want and Save the Game again. That solved it for me. It seems the difficulty is now tied to specific Game Saves.

    CluasStormvesselValamirCleaver
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 18,590

    The difficulty resetting now is so odd. It's been reported.

    Portrait request to scroll through portraits has been made.

    Map markers being cut off at the sides of the screen has been reported.

    Hitting Escape to leave vendors has been reported.

    ... Bag disappearing is a new one? :/


    EDIT
    Reported:
    No prompt warning you after you click to remove a memorised spell when the "More Confirmation Prompts" option is on.

    Yep, with the SoD release just a bigger amount of people (I would say, a much bigger) gets acquainted with the new UI and the new build.

    Many things that are being discussed in these first hours after the release actually more or less repeat the discussiong from the open beta of 2.0 subforum.

    Many things that are still bugs in the released version were already not only reported but submitted. The developers just haven't had enough time to implement fixes into the build, so we have to wait several weeks for that.

    Don't worry, the work on the game continues. They put a lot of effort to improve the UI based on the forum feedback in the last several days before the release, so that probably explains why other fixes didn't find their way into the game.


    And believe me, I'm experiencing it all too. For example, due to a bug I can't make my game save ANY option in the game menu when I close the game, so that each time I have to reset all those "not maximum HP on level up" , "scale user UI" etc etc. But I have reported this bug a long ago, it has been acknowledged and submitted, and will be fixed.

    If you really want to help, report bugs you find, as @Illydth has said, according to his instruction by @Cerevant : https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/49845/how-to-report-bugs#latest

    typo_tilly
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