Referring to the question asked at the beginning: Is resurrection of Baldur’s Gate made sense after all? Short answer is: “Yes”. This answer arose mostly from my nostalgic feelings towards the series. Siege of Dragonspear is directed exclusively to the true fans and a handful of players who play indie games to death. To others, outdated mechanics and visuals could be just indigestible. Personally, I believe developers served us a great adventure, which will cause you feel fifteen years younger.
FINAL VERDICT:
Story and mood: 4/5 Visuals: 2,5/5 Sound and music: 5/5 Fine-tuning: 4/5 Gameplay: 4,5/5
Its not great but its good. Luckily on the whole its being knocked down for stuff not that important to me (archaic rules, old engine, bugs) the only thing that has me worried as I play through BG:EE excitedly is the writing quality. As long as thats strong in the right places (party banter, antagonist) ill be happy.
The most important thing is that nearly all the reviews are saying that SoD captures the classic BG feel and shows Beamdog managed to create a BG game. It's the best compliment there could be for such a game.
Professional reviewers wearing their nostalgia glasses and expecting more of the same. Others are foolishly complaining about how old is the Infinity Engine, as if an expansion that bridges BG1 and BG2 was to receive the Fallout 4 treatment. Some magazines only score highly AAA titles. I usually don't trust professional reviews but in this game they are more honest than the consumers one. 7.5 isn't that bad and may help shed some light on the real value of the game since the users reviews are a joke and don't represent the game content.
Edited cos sometimes my English skills doesn't convey my thoughts LOL. Hope this makes more sense now.
The Spanish reviewer liked the old BG feel present in Siege of Dragonspear, and is happy about the care and respect taken to keep the old NPCs cast in character, although he felt that Jaheira was dull compared to her BG2 version. He mentioned Minsc line as breaking the 4th wall (I guess he reviewed 2.0) but that Minsc is still the same great companion, commending Jim Cummings on a great performance.
He is happy with the changes made to the UI, and that there are no game breaking bugs, saying that the game needed more QA. Some journal and items rewards issues. Some save and modding issues. Also some pathfinding problems. Multiplayer he called a disaster.
Mixed feeling about the implementation of some quests and technical side, with some triumphs and failures due to the fact that the game have many different writers and developers.
He was impressed with the first chapters and particularly liked the city of Baldur's Gate brimming with life. And the engine improvements that allowed the presence of hundreds of characters on screen and run smoothly on modern machines.
The reviewer complained about the linearity of the main quest which he find railroaded but justified for an expansion and the urgency of following a big army, and that at moments he wished that the expansion was a new chapter of the saga rather than a bridge between BG1 and BG2 to have less constraints and more freedom in tackling the quests, but there are interesting dungeons to discover and various places with compelling stories beside the main military campaign.
There are complaints about the old graphics, the constant need to adjust the zoom when changing maps, and the black outlines to the character models (this is the nth reviewer that didn't take the time to check the game options).
The new scripts, Sam Hulick OST and the game sounds received high praise as did the voice acting.
He concluded that the game is a worthy successor and preserved the BG feel. He also commended Beamdog effort despite them being a small studio and is looking to play more Beamdog games in the future. He found they raised the bar from the content of the Enhanced editions, and achieved more than he expected. More so with the upcoming patches. A worthy addition to BG legacy.
Score is 8/10. A game to treasure and a very enjoyable experience. Highly recommended for any cRPG fan. A good buy.
9 Gameplay 6 Graphics 8 Music and sounds
Edited to add more of the reviewer impressions about gameplay. Crevs might expand on the details as my Spanish fluency is on par with my English.
It's pretty funny that people here, on a BG fansite, complain about bias. Maybe you're biased?
Of course we are. But after all, SoD is the game for BG fans in the first place, and only then for other computer games players.
@bengoshi So it should be immune to criticism? That's not how it works my friend. The truth is, by 2016 standards, SoD is not a great game. But it's fine, and I don't regret playing it.
No, I don't think SoD is immune to critique (and even more so, I think the more feedback it gets on this forum, the better the next project will come), neither I don't think it's ideal.
To me SoD just works fine with BG1 and BG2, games from 16+ years back. This is enough for me to favour it and to recommend all BG fans.
SoD is not an AAA title and it comes not from a giant company. It is not designed to feel like a 2016-year game, it's designed to be a game that plays between BG1 and BG2 and shows what Beamdog has achieved with their work to improve the Infinity Engine. And I think the SoD's realization answers this design quite well.
(and even more so, I think the more feedback it gets on this forum, the better the next project will come)
Seeing as how SoD was the "next project" when they were getting feedback for BG:EE and BG2:EE, and we're still seeing criticism across the board specifically regarding the writing, I question whether that logic holds.
The writing for SoD is substantially better than the EE content in BGEE and BG2EE. SoD NPCs and Caelar Argent are often mentioned as very well-written characters in reviews. So it gives a foundation to another project.
With David Gaider and Brent Knowles on the board it will be improved even further.
Also, judging from what I read in this and other forums, the new NPCs have been very welcomed. I would even dare to say that they got more praise than Neera, Dorn, Hexxat and Rasaad. (At least, this is my impression).
Everyone is biased to a certain extent, but if you read the content of the reviews I think they actually are quite positive towards beamdogs efforts, as far as creating new content in the vein of BG is concerned... I mean the PCgamer awards only 71%, but what he actually says about the game is largely positive with how it fits in with the series and its homage to the BG series and how it is as an RPG as a whole (other than the linearity with following and army). His negatives mainly focus on the fact that, to him, in 2016 there are better alternatives for the old school RPG (like PoE and DOS) and BG as a whole is now just too outdated. He refers to the ruleset and the graphics. Does that matter a dime to long time BG fans who still play the game? Of course not. In fact, they will definitely appreciate the D&D 2nd ed rule set.
So all in all, the PC gamer review is very positive (even though its listed as mixed in this site and metacritic) where it matters in my opinion. Its too bad the scores don't necessarily reflect that, but that's why I usually speak in favour of scoreless reviews. T
@bengoshi - WHO DARES TO SUMMON THE LITTLE CTHULHU ILLITHID? Oh hey man, it's you! How have you been?
Translation from a Slavic language? No problem!
"Verdict - A good data-disc to a classical RPG, which - except for unavoidable technical constraints - mainly suffers from unbalanced quality of the story, Anyway, it is still a very good excuse why to take a one more look into the Faerun world."
I'm not going to translate it all, so this is a shortened version (with some of the funny quips in a real translation in cursive)
It's like a high-school reunion after 20 years. You will be thrilled by the fact, that you will finally see your good old friends again. You'll sit next to Minsc, who - just like during the Math classes - plays with his stupid squeaking hamster (how come it's not dead yet?) Across of you, the class duo Khalid and Jaheira are making out. A little aside, grumpy and always angry Viconia stares at the lot. And you sip alcohol from your glass and are happy, because nothing has changed. Everything is as you remember it. As it is supposed to be.
... then he goes on about how the old-school RPGs aren't really holding out in current world. Some of the oldschool mechanics - like sleeping for days to regenerate health again - are silly and the UI is insane and user-unfriendly.
"Ah, Infinity Engine, it's the real classic, is it?" chirps evidently tipsy Dynaheir and you just nod with a frozen smile.My god, it's year 2016! And it starts to be a bit uncomfortable and you pretend to get a call from the hospital to get out of here. ... Reviewer states that would not be fair against Beamdog as they DID implement a lot of new tweaks, bugfixes, new content and enhanced the whole engine. Also notes, that now it's finally the full package. Compliments new stuff like better UI, lightning-fast Load&Save ... but there are some things that haven't changed. For example - do not zoom too close as the graphics gets bad. It's not Crysis. ... Reviewer then states it's a good call, to place the data-disc between BG1 and BG2 as there was a "Narrative empty space, in which you could house a rowdy family of half-orcs" The biggest problem for the reviewer - except for the outdated graphics - is the plot. It is a bit too railroaded, especially when you find out that Caelar Argent isn't as insane or evil as Sarevok or Irenicus were. She is actually quite nice and you as a player might want to join forces with her. But you can't. The storywriters don't give you an option to do so, neither they explain enough, why wouldn't you want to. The overall story is good, but sometimes the characters behave illogically. Railroading isn't as bad in the end as the story and locations allow for a lot of side-quests.
Thanks a lot for the review translation, our mighty Mind Flayer! I'll sacrifice you some cookies!
FinneousPJ, I still haven't completed it. I'm a slow player, with a restartitis, and now there's that Iron Man Daigle run... I'll happily give my review when I finish, so far I shared my views on the starting dungeon and the BG city part.
"one design decision goes beyond a neutral take: You cannot backtrack to previously explored areas. I heard this before going in and didn’t think it would bother me, but this creates a lot of disappointment when I really want to complete a quest but went one step too far in the linear direction. This would be like Arkham Asylum eliminating the option for side quests after you complete the main story. Bad.
The more you play Dragonspear, though, the more you realize what the game is truly about: the story. While there are some anachronisms (allies from the first game that seem to have either forgotten you completely or disappeared entirely), it stays mostly faithful as a missing piece to a puzzle.
I will give a comparison from which many will immediately repulse: this is a lot like the Star Wars Prequel Trilogy. Looking past its much-maligned state (which it did everything in its power to earn) that trilogy filled a gap in the story about which many people were wondering. Thankfully, Siege of Dragonspear is a lot higher quality than that comparison implies."
...actually... some of my Czech friends on this very forum have told me to also look at the comments under that review on the Czech games portal.
Long story short - majority of them sort of put down the reviewer for being ridiculous in his complaints about the UI and quite silly comparison of the games' graphics to completely new titles - with oldschool games, it's not about the graphical interface, but about the story and the gameplay. Also some complain, that the modern games serve everything to the player on a silver plate and pose no challenge for a skilled gamer - actually liking BG's fights and it's steep learning curve.
On the other hand, the new story-line was received with mixed feelings. Some people like it, some don't. (That was expected, though)
His negatives mainly focus on the fact that, to him, in 2016 there are better alternatives for the old school RPG (like PoE and DOS) and BG as a whole is now just too outdated. He refers to the ruleset and the graphics. Does that matter a dime to long time BG fans who still play the game? Of course not. In fact, they will definitely appreciate the D&D 2nd ed rule set.
Well, I'm a longtime BG fan who's been playing it since it first came out, and am also someone who began playing D&D with 2e rules. But I hate 2e with a passion and even consider 4e rules to be better than 2e. So for me, someone pointing out that it is time to move on from 2e because that ruleset sucks is a meaningful and fair part of any review. Note that I do understand why the game needed to be in 2e, which is not the issue. But critizing the ruleset and resultant gameplay *is* fair game imho for a review.
His negatives mainly focus on the fact that, to him, in 2016 there are better alternatives for the old school RPG (like PoE and DOS) and BG as a whole is now just too outdated. He refers to the ruleset and the graphics. Does that matter a dime to long time BG fans who still play the game? Of course not. In fact, they will definitely appreciate the D&D 2nd ed rule set.
Well, I'm a longtime BG fan who's been playing it since it first came out, and am also someone who began playing D&D with 2e rules. But I hate 2e with a passion and even consider 4e rules to be better than 2e. So for me, someone pointing out that it is time to move on from 2e because that ruleset sucks is a meaningful and fair part of any review. Note that I do understand why the game needed to be in 2e, which is not the issue. But critizing the ruleset and resultant gameplay *is* fair game imho for a review.
While I think it can be mentioned, I also wonder about how relevant it is in a review for a game like this. It's almost like complaining that the game isn't an FPS or a MOBA. So while I think it can be mentioned, I'd not base a review around it either. Just my two cents.
I think the story arc is interesting enough, but the railroading is horrible. Like, really horrible. You can't call out the bad guy and you can't ally with Caelar despite being explicitly asked. To be honest there were very little possibilities for me to role-play my character.
His negatives mainly focus on the fact that, to him, in 2016 there are better alternatives for the old school RPG (like PoE and DOS) and BG as a whole is now just too outdated. He refers to the ruleset and the graphics. Does that matter a dime to long time BG fans who still play the game? Of course not. In fact, they will definitely appreciate the D&D 2nd ed rule set.
Well, I'm a longtime BG fan who's been playing it since it first came out, and am also someone who began playing D&D with 2e rules. But I hate 2e with a passion and even consider 4e rules to be better than 2e. So for me, someone pointing out that it is time to move on from 2e because that ruleset sucks is a meaningful and fair part of any review. Note that I do understand why the game needed to be in 2e, which is not the issue. But critizing the ruleset and resultant gameplay *is* fair game imho for a review.
Hey, I didn't say it wasn't a legit criticism.. It is really, but I feel that most BG fans will like the idea of going back to 2nd ed
While I think it can be mentioned, I also wonder about how relevant it is in a review for a game like this. It's almost like complaining that the game isn't an FPS or a MOBA. So while I think it can be mentioned, I'd not base a review around it either. Just my two cents.
The way I interpret such critiques is as follows (and this applies to criticism of the dated graphics as well): Beamdog had two options for what they could've done creating a new game. Option A - create an expansion to a 17 years old game that bridges it and its almost as old follow-on game, and as such has to use the same ruleset and graphics (and engine) to maintain consistency. Option B - create an entirely new game that is very similar to the much-beloved 17 years old game and set in the same world, but using new/current rules, UI, graphics, and engine. Beamdog chose option A, and that choice is what is being criticized.
Now, Beamdog can come back and say they didn't have a choice because WotC made them do A over B. Fair enough, but that still doesn't negate or invalidate the criticism.
As a separate note, none of my arguments are meant to convey that I don't like SoD. To the contrary, I've been following the game since it was still just a vague reference to Adventure Y, I pre-ordered it the day it became available to do so, and it's worth every penny I spent on it. But if I'd had a say in the choice, I would've chosen option B over A; it would've been a no-brainer for me.
I disagree, what they did in creating a new chapter using the same ruleset etc... is such a rare thing its much more preferable to me. We have had two spiritual sequels to BG2 already (DA:O and Pillars of Eternity) so a remake and lost chapter are nice for a change. Rather than trying to be modern BG2 it actually serves to enrich it. It creates a new reason to play through again and has reinvigorated the modding community.
Maybe @CrevsDaak can translate some tidbits from it?
I'm very sorry, but I do not have the time to make a translation of it, nor I am feeling well enough to start one if I had the time.
So, what the say is that, the story is quite better than the other games Beamdog released (meaning it's better than the EE characters' stories and such), that it's nice that it isn't a reboot but purely new content, that there are some bits to polish (engine and story wise) but that the game feels like Baldur's Gate (meaning it's a good game), but the some of graphic changes weren't welcome (the black outlining on the character sprites) and that it had more bugs than it should at launch time. They also mention that the new interface is nice and how it respects the old BG one, and that the game's good: you should buy it if you like the genre. It was also mentioned that it'd be better as a standalone game (the term that was used in Spanish was "independent expansion".
SoD is not glaringly worse than BG1 or BG2. It is actually enjoyable for me, and that says something, i'm extremely hard to please.
It's not something spectacular, but it's solid, and shows that Beamdog can actually do something on their own succesfully.
It's time to create the next step IMO. A D&D game from the ground up, this time.
2D obviously, with the storytelling mode of BG, but with newer visuals, something i believe will attract more people that are used to today's graphics, you can do spectacular things with hand drawn graphics actually.
It doesn't necessarily have to be a huge budget for graphics, just something different than the old IE-like sprites, that are becoming a bit boring after all these years.
P.S. : Take this as you wish but, the reason BG was succesfull is that it deals with issues that transcend time. War, death, angst, love(usually unrequited), tragedy or the titanic battle against fate, is something that will always be relevant, no matter when you decide to play. Politics of today (cough FF vs GG)... not so much.
Comments
http://games.tiscali.cz/recenze/baldur-s-gate-siege-of-dragonspear-recenze-274707
@Southpaw , our mighty Illathid, I summon thee to translate it a bit!
That's... not great. Not unexpected, perhaps, but not great.
Edited cos sometimes my English skills doesn't convey my thoughts LOL. Hope this makes more sense now.
Maybe @CrevsDaak can translate some tidbits from it?
He is happy with the changes made to the UI, and that there are no game breaking bugs, saying that the game needed more QA. Some journal and items rewards issues. Some save and modding issues. Also some pathfinding problems. Multiplayer he called a disaster.
Mixed feeling about the implementation of some quests and technical side, with some triumphs and failures due to the fact that the game have many different writers and developers.
He was impressed with the first chapters and particularly liked the city of Baldur's Gate brimming with life. And the engine improvements that allowed the presence of hundreds of characters on screen and run smoothly on modern machines.
The reviewer complained about the linearity of the main quest which he find railroaded but justified for an expansion and the urgency of following a big army, and that at moments he wished that the expansion was a new chapter of the saga rather than a bridge between BG1 and BG2 to have less constraints and more freedom in tackling the quests, but there are interesting dungeons to discover and various places with compelling stories beside the main military campaign.
There are complaints about the old graphics, the constant need to adjust the zoom when changing maps, and the black outlines to the character models (this is the nth reviewer that didn't take the time to check the game options).
The new scripts, Sam Hulick OST and the game sounds received high praise as did the voice acting.
He concluded that the game is a worthy successor and preserved the BG feel. He also commended Beamdog effort despite them being a small studio and is looking to play more Beamdog games in the future. He found they raised the bar from the content of the Enhanced editions, and achieved more than he expected. More so with the upcoming patches. A worthy addition to BG legacy.
Score is 8/10. A game to treasure and a very enjoyable experience. Highly recommended for any cRPG fan. A good buy.
9 Gameplay
6 Graphics
8 Music and sounds
Edited to add more of the reviewer impressions about gameplay. Crevs might expand on the details as my Spanish fluency is on par with my English.
To me SoD just works fine with BG1 and BG2, games from 16+ years back. This is enough for me to favour it and to recommend all BG fans.
SoD is not an AAA title and it comes not from a giant company. It is not designed to feel like a 2016-year game, it's designed to be a game that plays between BG1 and BG2 and shows what Beamdog has achieved with their work to improve the Infinity Engine. And I think the SoD's realization answers this design quite well.
With David Gaider and Brent Knowles on the board it will be improved even further.
So all in all, the PC gamer review is very positive (even though its listed as mixed in this site and metacritic) where it matters in my opinion. Its too bad the scores don't necessarily reflect that, but that's why I usually speak in favour of scoreless reviews. T
(Just kidding!
Oh hey man, it's you! How have you been?
Translation from a Slavic language? No problem!
"Verdict - A good data-disc to a classical RPG, which - except for unavoidable technical constraints - mainly suffers from unbalanced quality of the story, Anyway, it is still a very good excuse why to take a one more look into the Faerun world."
I'm not going to translate it all, so this is a shortened version (with some of the funny quips in a real translation in cursive)
It's like a high-school reunion after 20 years. You will be thrilled by the fact, that you will finally see your good old friends again. You'll sit next to Minsc, who - just like during the Math classes - plays with his stupid squeaking hamster (how come it's not dead yet?) Across of you, the class duo Khalid and Jaheira are making out. A little aside, grumpy and always angry Viconia stares at the lot. And you sip alcohol from your glass and are happy, because nothing has changed. Everything is as you remember it. As it is supposed to be.
... then he goes on about how the old-school RPGs aren't really holding out in current world. Some of the oldschool mechanics - like sleeping for days to regenerate health again - are silly and the UI is insane and user-unfriendly.
"Ah, Infinity Engine, it's the real classic, is it?" chirps evidently tipsy Dynaheir and you just nod with a frozen smile.My god, it's year 2016! And it starts to be a bit uncomfortable and you pretend to get a call from the hospital to get out of here.
...
Reviewer states that would not be fair against Beamdog as they DID implement a lot of new tweaks, bugfixes, new content and enhanced the whole engine. Also notes, that now it's finally the full package. Compliments new stuff like better UI, lightning-fast Load&Save ... but there are some things that haven't changed. For example - do not zoom too close as the graphics gets bad.
It's not Crysis.
...
Reviewer then states it's a good call, to place the data-disc between BG1 and BG2 as there was a "Narrative empty space, in which you could house a rowdy family of half-orcs"
The biggest problem for the reviewer - except for the outdated graphics - is the plot. It is a bit too railroaded, especially when you find out that Caelar Argent isn't as insane or evil as Sarevok or Irenicus were. She is actually quite nice and you as a player might want to join forces with her. But you can't.
The storywriters don't give you an option to do so, neither they explain enough, why wouldn't you want to. The overall story is good, but sometimes the characters behave illogically. Railroading isn't as bad in the end as the story and locations allow for a lot of side-quests.
FinneousPJ, I still haven't completed it. I'm a slow player, with a restartitis, and now there's that Iron Man Daigle run...
A new review is available, from http://www.gamerevolution.com/ 3,5/5
"one design decision goes beyond a neutral take: You cannot backtrack to previously explored areas. I heard this before going in and didn’t think it would bother me, but this creates a lot of disappointment when I really want to complete a quest but went one step too far in the linear direction. This would be like Arkham Asylum eliminating the option for side quests after you complete the main story. Bad.
The more you play Dragonspear, though, the more you realize what the game is truly about: the story. While there are some anachronisms (allies from the first game that seem to have either forgotten you completely or disappeared entirely), it stays mostly faithful as a missing piece to a puzzle.
I will give a comparison from which many will immediately repulse: this is a lot like the Star Wars Prequel Trilogy. Looking past its much-maligned state (which it did everything in its power to earn) that trilogy filled a gap in the story about which many people were wondering. Thankfully, Siege of Dragonspear is a lot higher quality than that comparison implies."
http://www.gamerevolution.com/review/baldurs-gate-siege-of-dragonspear
Long story short - majority of them sort of put down the reviewer for being ridiculous in his complaints about the UI and quite silly comparison of the games' graphics to completely new titles - with oldschool games, it's not about the graphical interface, but about the story and the gameplay. Also some complain, that the modern games serve everything to the player on a silver plate and pose no challenge for a skilled gamer - actually liking BG's fights and it's steep learning curve.
On the other hand, the new story-line was received with mixed feelings. Some people like it, some don't. (That was expected, though)
Now, Beamdog can come back and say they didn't have a choice because WotC made them do A over B. Fair enough, but that still doesn't negate or invalidate the criticism.
As a separate note, none of my arguments are meant to convey that I don't like SoD. To the contrary, I've been following the game since it was still just a vague reference to Adventure Y, I pre-ordered it the day it became available to do so, and it's worth every penny I spent on it. But if I'd had a say in the choice, I would've chosen option B over A; it would've been a no-brainer for me.
So, what the say is that, the story is quite better than the other games Beamdog released (meaning it's better than the EE characters' stories and such), that it's nice that it isn't a reboot but purely new content, that there are some bits to polish (engine and story wise) but that the game feels like Baldur's Gate (meaning it's a good game), but the some of graphic changes weren't welcome (the black outlining on the character sprites) and that it had more bugs than it should at launch time. They also mention that the new interface is nice and how it respects the old BG one, and that the game's good: you should buy it if you like the genre. It was also mentioned that it'd be better as a standalone game (the term that was used in Spanish was "independent expansion".
It's not something spectacular, but it's solid, and shows that Beamdog can actually do something on their own succesfully.
It's time to create the next step IMO. A D&D game from the ground up, this time.
2D obviously, with the storytelling mode of BG, but with newer visuals, something i believe will attract more people that are used to today's graphics, you can do spectacular things with hand drawn graphics actually.
It doesn't necessarily have to be a huge budget for graphics, just something different than the old IE-like sprites, that are becoming a bit boring after all these years.
P.S. : Take this as you wish but, the reason BG was succesfull is that it deals with issues that transcend time. War, death, angst, love(usually unrequited), tragedy or the titanic battle against fate, is something that will always be relevant, no matter when you decide to play. Politics of today (cough FF vs GG)... not so much.