@vortican I totally agree with your last point. I need to be convinced that they are listening to feedback and making improvements on DA2 before considering investing in DA3. Greater depth to the characters, better story development and less of a slugfest would amount to a significant improvement.
IMO Everything about DA 1 was better than DA 2 with "maybe" the exception of the new combat. For DA I didn't mind the combat change between 1 and 2, but I did hate all the other changes. DA 1 was by far the more "Epic" game. The story was better, the inventory was better, the RPG elements felt deeper to me in DA 1, the crafting was by far better in DA 1, everything was better in DA 1.
I liked DA 2's combat, but since that was the only change I felt was a little better, all the other major steps backwards they took really annoyed me and I felt burned at the end. With DA 3 I'm waiting for major reviews and stuff first and NOT pre-ordering. I might even wait for DA 3 to hit a major sale.
Unless they say it's DA 1 with DA 2's combat engine then it'll only be a "decent" game at best and not anywhere near as good as DA 1. I finished DA 1 three separate times. I haven't finished DA 2 yet and I bought it the day it came out. That should tell you something right there...
The over the top moves and every enemy exploding like a water balloon filled with blood where drawbacks, but what really ruined the combat was the waves, which not only made tactical positioning and planning impossible, but was ridiculous as you watched people rain from the skies made DA:O combat much more appealing.
The waves didn't bother me and I got used to the blood. The mechanics of combat were far superior in DA2 in my opinion. I remember when they were marketing it, one of the key concepts was that they wanted the "delay effect" to be completely gone (one of the guys said, "Press a button and something awesome happens." I think they succeeded in that, but what was frustrating to me was the repetitive animations. I know it's probably a silly thing, but since they took the time to make it feel like you really had control over your character in combat, to have them go through the same 4 moves in a row over and over again when you were not using special abilities became grating. It's probably a criticism I have in almost every game that's not a fighting game, but it's still annoying. I'd probably prefer to sacrifice something and have them invest time and effort into a ton of animation possibilities to keep combat interesting. I figure if it's an interesting fight, it can go on a long time (even with waves of enemy dudes) and still be fun.
I will probably be a complete tool and pre-order the game, but I seriously hope they start to take their story line more seriously. I have loved the setting and enjoy the richness that the world has to offer, but DA2, like everyone knows, left much to be desired, and specifically I would say so in its ability to produce a richer story line. The story line was amusing and had its depth at parts, but nothing compared to DA:O. DA2 did not give enough when it had plenty available to work with.
@vortican I totally agree with your last point. I need to be convinced that they are listening to feedback and making improvements on DA2 before considering investing in DA3. Greater depth to the characters, better story development and less of a slugfest would amount to a significant improvement.
Actually I'm fine with the lack of information to a certain extent. I DO want info prior to release of course, but I don't think it is smart when developers put out a bunch of expectations for their game while they are still in the early stages, since the game is liable to change.
Once they have something that mostly resembles a finished product then by all means they should advertise what is great about it.
I read an article somewhere online (so it must be true) that the lion's share of content/gameplay mechanics/story for DA3 was crowd sourced...I think they finally bit the bullet and said "We know we suck, please tell us what to do to make it better" Either that or it was all simply to troll the community like we saw with the F*ck You ending of ME3. Guess we'll see, personally I will not be pre-ordering and I am on the fence about buying the game...I'll probably play a friends copy or try to rent it somewhere. I never did like the setting and story that much. The chantry? Who cares about religious crap like that. Mages vs templars? DA2 convinced me that mages are always always always evil, no exceptions, they thoroughly nailed that point home. Grey wardens are a cool concept though, and battling the darkspawn is neat.
The chantry? Who cares about religious crap like that. Mages vs templars? DA2 convinced me that mages are always always always evil, no exceptions, they thoroughly nailed that point home. Grey wardens are a cool concept though, and battling the darkspawn is neat.
I disagree on the "religious crap". I found the theological approach very interesting and made the game relatable to the real world aka religious fanatics trying to start wars. I wish the game did have more religious moderates who were loyal to the Chantry, but actively fought against the power struggle in the religious fanaticism. Overall, given what I am currently seeing in the world, I found the Chantry to be an interesting commentary on the power religion can have over a culture.
As for mages, I saw a lot more balance. It was never the mage who was inherently evil (in most cases), but the powers that could take over a mage. The dilemma of the mages in DA was almost argued in DA2 as something everyone has: that all people experience temptation and often times temptation can lead to evil and awful acts in the world.
Grey Wardens and Darkspawn: complete agreement, no further comment needed
disclaimer: I do realize it is just a game, and I am reading too much into it, but I like a good story that makes me think.
Egad, not a mention of DA here, not after the travesty that was DA 2. Please. It's a veritable insult to the BG forum. With the direction EA is going with DA 3, I personally see no hope for the DA IP.
I will need to read more about the storyline prior to deciding on whether or not I will play. The trailer for the game leads me to believe that I will either love or hate it.
Playing as a cowardly assassin who slays human kings for an undisclosed reason, fleeing in terror of the king's guard(s) after you slit the king's throat instead of fighting with honour: I wouldn't degrade urine by pissing on this game.
Playing as a character, finding these assassins/this assassin, and giving them a taste of wrath: Oh, yes. I will be playing.
I will need to read more about the storyline prior to deciding on whether or not I will play. The trailer for the game leads me to believe that I will either love or hate it.
Playing as a cowardly assassin who slays human kings for an undisclosed reason, fleeing in terror of the king's guard(s) after you slit the king's throat instead of fighting with honour: I wouldn't degrade urine by pissing on this game.
Playing as a character, finding these assassins/this assassin, and giving them a taste of wrath: Oh, yes. I will be playing.
The trailer you saw is the one for the Witcher 2 I believe. It's a fake that has been circulating on youtube.
I will need to read more about the storyline prior to deciding on whether or not I will play. The trailer for the game leads me to believe that I will either love or hate it.
Playing as a cowardly assassin who slays human kings for an undisclosed reason, fleeing in terror of the king's guard(s) after you slit the king's throat instead of fighting with honour: I wouldn't degrade urine by pissing on this game.
Playing as a character, finding these assassins/this assassin, and giving them a taste of wrath: Oh, yes. I will be playing.
The trailer you saw is the one for the Witcher 2 I believe. It's a fake that has been circulating on youtube.
Yeah, that's not Dragon Age at all... the king dude even references Geralt in the first 20 seconds or so.
I was suspicious of that, but I always noticed a similarity between Dragon Age and The Witcher, so that never phased me much. I am *very* glad that it's not Dragon Age, though.
@Anduine, the similarity is on Bioware/EA. As soon as the Witcher 1 was such a success, it seems they morphed DA into a voiced male PC (DA 2) and went more action than RPG (ironically, unlike DA 2, TW 1 is a decent game in regards to role-playing and TW 2 is really good in regards to being an RPG). There are more similarities as far as the premise goes with Inquisition following in TW 2's footsteps. Pitiful that Bioware has started doing this, especially when DA:O sold what, 4.5M copies? That wasn't enough for EA?
Interesting considering that Bioware hasn't shared what the story of DA3 actually is... what info is out there is based on interpretation of the title and assumptions.
@vortican, I heard some things through a grapevine. Whether they are right or not, I don't know, but I'm assuming they are because of the source (which I won't name as I don't want to get anyone in possible hot water, so take what I wrote earlier for what it's worth, if anything) and what the past has bore.
They lost me with DA 2. That game was god-awful bad. I bought it on the cheap for less than $20.00 and still felt blatantly ripped off. More than that, though, I am not a fan of nearly anything they did with DA 2. Given what I've heard on said grapevine and what EA has mentioned of DA:I, it holds no interest for me.
Sex is fine when it's handled with maturity, but I've yet to see Bioware do so. The fact it took women on the writing staff to point out what is mentioned in the article does not surprise me. Too, beyond just simple sex, the relationships they depict in their games seem to be teenage angst sort of stuff rather than mature relationships between adults. I found the DA:O romances to be sort of demeaning, to be honest, in the way you could basically buy a NPC's affection by offering them gifts or trinkets. At this point, it would actually interest me more if they dropped the romance angle altogether because I've yet to see them handle romantic relationships with any real depth. As for Gaider's books, I can't say if relationships are handled the same way or better in those as I haven't read any of them. I would imagine, however, he handles them better in his writing and for whatever reason that has not translated to the games.
The gifts in DA:O were silly, but the whole influence system in that game was a mess to begin with.
I personally think a little higher of Bioware's attempts at relationships, but I agree they range from great, to meh, to offensive. The majority of the romances are really basic, npc says they love the pc, the have sex, done. There are a few that stand out though, I really enjoyed the romance with Morrigan, since it adds conflict to later events in the game. Thane had a good one to, only really becoming sexual after a lot of emotional scenes. I like Planescape's method the most, dabbling in romantic tension without making the endeavor, as you said, teenage angst material. All of the romances in BG2 were real bland for me by contrast though.
The only one that really upsets me is the way they handled Jack's romance plot, most because I think she is a great character and they really screwed it up.
I loved all of Mass Effect's characters...they really started to feel like old friends. Dragon Age...hrm...I liked Morrigan. I liked the drunken dwarf. I sometimes liked Alistair. Well to be honest...I barely even remember a lot of the names of Dragon Age's characters. They just didn't really strike me as that interesting I guess. And I enjoyed the DA games. Well...as much as I could from DA:2 as the same issues of redundant map usage and all that bothered me just like anyone.
If the gifts were a bit more meaningful (like the Black Grimoire) I think they would be an intriguing way of learning more about the characters. For instance...the dwarf likes alcohol right? So every time you give him alcohol, maybe he has a story about that specific vintage. Or maybe he tells you something about the last time he had something like that. Or just more drunken rants. I don't care.
The assassin guy creeped me out with his loving the smell of shoe leather and stuff. I honestly didn't want to give him anymore gifts lol.
I think Dog was really underutilized as a character. Are you telling me, Bioware, that you couldn't find a single interesting plot piece regarding him? Really? I mean after all these tear-jerker animal movies that Hollywood makes? Pfft.
But anyway...Dragon Age still had a lot going for it in the original game. So many different choices, such a great universe that they made. I loved it. I just hope they go back to that in DA:3.
I also wish I could continue playing as my Grey Warden.
Sex is fine when it's handled with maturity, but I've yet to see Bioware do so. The fact it took women on the writing staff to point out what is mentioned in the article does not surprise me. Too, beyond just simple sex, the relationships they depict in their games seem to be teenage angst sort of stuff rather than mature relationships between adults. I found the DA:O romances to be sort of demeaning, to be honest, in the way you could basically buy a NPC's affection by offering them gifts or trinkets. At this point, it would actually interest me more if they dropped the romance angle altogether because I've yet to see them handle romantic relationships with any real depth. As for Gaider's books, I can't say if relationships are handled the same way or better in those as I haven't read any of them. I would imagine, however, he handles them better in his writing and for whatever reason that has not translated to the games.
I agree with you on this. I also thought the whole 'buy a present - get affecshun points' was a bit retarded. Most of the romances still kept to the surface too, except for maybe Morrigan's romance. So much potential, all of it wasted. But then the writing of recent Bioware games has been quite sub-par as off lately. (DA 2's messy story and ME 3's horrible endings)
Sex is fine when it's handled with maturity, but I've yet to see Bioware do so. The fact it took women on the writing staff to point out what is mentioned in the article does not surprise me. Too, beyond just simple sex, the relationships they depict in their games seem to be teenage angst sort of stuff rather than mature relationships between adults. I found the DA:O romances to be sort of demeaning, to be honest, in the way you could basically buy a NPC's affection by offering them gifts or trinkets. At this point, it would actually interest me more if they dropped the romance angle altogether because I've yet to see them handle romantic relationships with any real depth. As for Gaider's books, I can't say if relationships are handled the same way or better in those as I haven't read any of them. I would imagine, however, he handles them better in his writing and for whatever reason that has not translated to the games.
I agree with you on this. I also thought the whole 'buy a present - get affecshun points' was a bit retarded. Most of the romances still kept to the surface too, except for maybe Morrigan's romance. So much potential, all of it wasted. But then the writing of recent Bioware games has been quite sub-par as off lately. (DA 2's messy story and ME 3's horrible endings)
So....you never got "brownie points" for buying your significant other flowers, candy, dinner, diamond rings?
@Arabus13, if you've gotten love or laid from buying flowers, candy, dinner, etc., I would do some serious soul-searching about the type of people with whom you are involved. Either way, it still doesn't change the fact that the relationships were poorly done and in sometimes a very insulting/demeaning way.
@State_Lemming, thank you for pointing out Morrigan. That is the one Bioware relationship that bordered on something in depth and meaningful for me.
@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud, I won't mention DA 2 because I will most likely go on a mini-rant. LOL Let us just say that IMO they really messed up in the direction they went. I was a long time and loyal customer of Bioware until DA 2. Once DA 2 came out after Knowles left, I knew the Bioware on which I grew up was no more, especially considering some of the shady practices they employed in regards to DA 2 (fake reviews, etc.). Now, Bioware is nothing more than a label and EA runs the show. It's a show I will not attend.
@Arabus13, if you've gotten love or laid from buying flowers, candy, dinner, etc., I would do some serious soul-searching about the type of people with whom you are involved. Either way, it still doesn't change the fact that the relationships were poorly done and in sometimes a very insulting/demeaning way.
Wow...touchy!
Sorry, but I've been happily married for well over 25 years. Yet, even now the wife appreciates candy, dinner, flowers, and jewelry.
If anything, Bioware's "gifts" are nothing more than an analogy to establish character relationships in the game. If you can't see the difference, maybe it's you that needs to do the soul searching.
Comments
I totally agree with your last point. I need to be convinced that they are listening to feedback and making improvements on DA2 before considering investing in DA3. Greater depth to the characters, better story development and less of a slugfest would amount to a significant improvement.
I liked DA 2's combat, but since that was the only change I felt was a little better, all the other major steps backwards they took really annoyed me and I felt burned at the end. With DA 3 I'm waiting for major reviews and stuff first and NOT pre-ordering. I might even wait for DA 3 to hit a major sale.
Unless they say it's DA 1 with DA 2's combat engine then it'll only be a "decent" game at best and not anywhere near as good as DA 1. I finished DA 1 three separate times. I haven't finished DA 2 yet and I bought it the day it came out. That should tell you something right there...
The over the top moves and every enemy exploding like a water balloon filled with blood where drawbacks, but what really ruined the combat was the waves, which not only made tactical positioning and planning impossible, but was ridiculous as you watched people rain from the skies made DA:O combat much more appealing.
Once they have something that mostly resembles a finished product then by all means they should advertise what is great about it.
but that all died with the release of dragon age 2 and the ME 3 ending.... son i am disappoint!!!
no more preorders, no fing way..
As for mages, I saw a lot more balance. It was never the mage who was inherently evil (in most cases), but the powers that could take over a mage. The dilemma of the mages in DA was almost argued in DA2 as something everyone has: that all people experience temptation and often times temptation can lead to evil and awful acts in the world.
Grey Wardens and Darkspawn: complete agreement, no further comment needed
disclaimer: I do realize it is just a game, and I am reading too much into it, but I like a good story that makes me think.
Playing as a cowardly assassin who slays human kings for an undisclosed reason, fleeing in terror of the king's guard(s) after you slit the king's throat instead of fighting with honour: I wouldn't degrade urine by pissing on this game.
Playing as a character, finding these assassins/this assassin, and giving them a taste of wrath: Oh, yes. I will be playing.
You mean the above trailer, something despicable to the point that I nearly spat on my monitor?
Grapevines are for making wine.
http://kotaku.com/5964700/you-can-thank-women-for-dragon-age-3s-lack-of-creepy-sex-plot
I personally think a little higher of Bioware's attempts at relationships, but I agree they range from great, to meh, to offensive. The majority of the romances are really basic, npc says they love the pc, the have sex, done. There are a few that stand out though, I really enjoyed the romance with Morrigan, since it adds conflict to later events in the game. Thane had a good one to, only really becoming sexual after a lot of emotional scenes. I like Planescape's method the most, dabbling in romantic tension without making the endeavor, as you said, teenage angst material. All of the romances in BG2 were real bland for me by contrast though.
The only one that really upsets me is the way they handled Jack's romance plot, most because I think she is a great character and they really screwed it up.
If the gifts were a bit more meaningful (like the Black Grimoire) I think they would be an intriguing way of learning more about the characters. For instance...the dwarf likes alcohol right? So every time you give him alcohol, maybe he has a story about that specific vintage. Or maybe he tells you something about the last time he had something like that. Or just more drunken rants. I don't care.
The assassin guy creeped me out with his loving the smell of shoe leather and stuff. I honestly didn't want to give him anymore gifts lol.
I think Dog was really underutilized as a character. Are you telling me, Bioware, that you couldn't find a single interesting plot piece regarding him? Really? I mean after all these tear-jerker animal movies that Hollywood makes? Pfft.
But anyway...Dragon Age still had a lot going for it in the original game. So many different choices, such a great universe that they made. I loved it. I just hope they go back to that in DA:3.
I also wish I could continue playing as my Grey Warden.
@State_Lemming, thank you for pointing out Morrigan. That is the one Bioware relationship that bordered on something in depth and meaningful for me.
@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud, I won't mention DA 2 because I will most likely go on a mini-rant. LOL Let us just say that IMO they really messed up in the direction they went. I was a long time and loyal customer of Bioware until DA 2. Once DA 2 came out after Knowles left, I knew the Bioware on which I grew up was no more, especially considering some of the shady practices they employed in regards to DA 2 (fake reviews, etc.). Now, Bioware is nothing more than a label and EA runs the show. It's a show I will not attend.