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User Ratings on Metacritic (*SPOILERS*)

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Comments

  • OsigoldOsigold Member Posts: 117
    Purudaya said:

    Osigold said:

    Purudaya said:

    Osigold said:

    The problem with that, Illustair, is that Beamdog wanted this to happen. This isn't a lesson to learn for them, it's a deliberate... something. Maybe a ploy for publicity. Posting an incendiary interview on Kotaku on launch day while releasing the product with an insult attached to the franchise's most beloved character and then only taking to the forums and social media to add fuel to the fire is not a series of unfortunate events. It's the execution of a strategy.

    Dude, I'm sorry but you find a conspiracy in everything. You should subscribe to The Blaze - you'll find a lot better company there. :)
    You thought me believing Amber Scott when she said she put Social Justice into her writing was a conspiracy theory, so forgive me if I won't check my head for tin foil just yet.

    Is anything that I said wrong? Isn't Kotaku the most aggravating possible choice of publication? Doesn't that interview include multiple things likely to upset people? Did Beamdog employees go on social media to say critics "weren't real fans" and thereby add fuel to the fire? Didn't Trent Oster post to condemn the opposition and solicit positive reviews, thereby inciting further comment from his critics?

    They do all of that to add to the controversy and... nothing whatsoever... to attempt to calm it, and you don't think they planned it all along? Do you think when they added that line to Minsc they were saying to each other that this'll make GamerGaters really kick back and enjoy the game?

    Conspiracy? Yeah, right. Stating the bleeding obvious is more like it.
    Making (in your view) bad PR choices =/= a conspiracy to make this happen deliberately for some nefarious purpose. You don't always have to connect the dots...sometimes they're just dots.
    That's certainly true, and something that it's all too easy to forget!

    I don't think it applies in this instance, but I'll commend you for a good thought.

  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    edited April 2016
    RedKnight said:

    Trust me, you dont want Gamergate organized campaign on your back. If we wanted to destroy this game, would do something much more effective and you would know about it.

    And there it is.

    No matter what ANYBODY says to offend you, it's NEVER appropriate to try and destroy something they've created. I don't care if Beamdog added a shrine to Anna Sarkeesian in the middle of Beregost and turned Minsc into an avid Bernie Sanders supporter while making it rain equality symbols from the goddamn sky. Sometimes in life people will insult you. You can insult them back. But that's where it ends.

    I'm going to repeat my new mantra: You don't get to demand to live in a world where you are never confronted with things you don't like.

    "We could destroy this game if we wanted to." What an angry life you must live.

    EDIT: Apparently @RedKnight equivocated his statement and I missed it. Whoops!

    Post edited by Purudaya on
    joluv[Deleted User]KrotosNomphosumus
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    edited April 2016
    Osigold said:

    I don't think it applies in this instance, but I'll commend you for a good thought.

    You know, I initially really wanted this guy to go away, but I've gotta admit: he might be the most skillful troll I've ever seen. He's a living embodiment of Poe's law. He knows how to apply just the right amount of condescension.
    RedKnight said:

    Trust me, you dont want Gamergate organized campaign on your back. If we wanted to destroy this game, would do something much more effective and you would know about it.

    You, on the other hand, are trying way too hard.

    And troll or not, what you said could/should be seen as a threat and I hope you'll be banned within a few hours.

    joluv
  • RedKnightRedKnight Member Posts: 71
    edited April 2016
    Kilivitz said:

    Osigold said:

    I don't think it applies in this instance, but I'll commend you for a good thought.

    You know, I initially really wanted this guy to go away, but I've gotta admit: he might be the most skillful troll I've ever seen. He's a living embodiment of Poe's law. He knows how to apply just the right amount of condescension.
    RedKnight said:

    Trust me, you dont want Gamergate organized campaign on your back. If we wanted to destroy this game, would do something much more effective and you would know about it.

    You, on the other hand, are trying way too hard.

    And troll or not, what you said could/should be seen as a threat and I hope you'll be banned within a few hours.
    I am glad to see you are acting according to your own SJW ideals. As usual, no arguments, no valid criticism, just your usual "burn the heretic" crap.

    You can go away now.

  • Benjamin_the_RogueBenjamin_the_Rogue Member Posts: 9
    Got damn, what an unholy mess. Not just the cartoon looking graphics, the bugs, but more important then everything is the the writers reactions to all of this. To say it was handled unprofessionally would be a bit of an understatement. I think this aggressive and confrontational behavior is what is really making the situation what it is.

    But even the professional failure of the company set aside, I just couldn't give this game a good rating on Metacritic. There's just too much going on at the same time with the function and art direction. Then the fact that the politics got so overt and aggressive outside of the game I can say it hasn't done very much to endear me to the current employees at the company. What happened? I really enjoyed some of the previous content.

    There are threads I bookmarked that are now telling me I don't have permission to view them. Are we having entire threads removed and hidden?

    RedKnightatakdogValchrist
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816

    I actually had written a lot of stuff about how I feel about this whole issue, but seeing by how people are doing flame wars, I discouraged myself to express how I feel in fear that someone would be butthurt about my opinion being different.

    Anyways... I am one of the people who didn't buy this game and also will not buy it.

    I bought the Enhanced Editions and many times I felt that the extra new dialogues and quests were rushed and too plain... I've seen other reviewers say the same and, frankly, I don't see why I should give DragonSpear a try...

    This transgender discussion is crazy. Who cares about one line of dialogue when a lot of reviewers are saying the problem is NOT one line of dialogue, but instead the many bugs encountered so far (fixable) and subpar writing (unfixable)

    You can watch Lets Play videos on Youtube and decide for yourself. :smile:

    Benjamin_the_Rogue
  • RedKnightRedKnight Member Posts: 71
    edited April 2016
    Purudaya said:

    RedKnight said:

    Trust me, you dont want Gamergate organized campaign on your back. If we wanted to destroy this game, would do something much more effective and you would know about it.

    And there it is.

    No matter what ANYBODY says to offend you, it's NEVER appropriate to try and destroy something they've created. I don't care if Beamdog added a shrine to Anna Sarkeesian in the middle of Beregost and turned Minsc into an avid Bernie Sanders supporter while making it rain equality symbols from the goddamn sky. Sometimes in life people will insult you. You can insult them back. But that's where it ends.

    I'm going to repeat my new mantra: You don't get to demand to live in a world where you are never confronted with things you don't like.

    "We could destroy this game if we wanted to." What an angry life you must live.
    Jesus Christ! Can you not read, man? I said that we could destroy it if we wanted to - not that we will or that we are destroyng it. I even said right before this paragraph that there is no campaign and that I don't condone any action that can ruin the livelihood of the developers - EVEN IF THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT POLITICAL VIEW!

    Are you illiterate or just intentionally obtuse?

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136

    I think this aggressive and confrontational behavior is what is really making the situation what it is.


  • InsultionInsultion Member Posts: 179
    @RedKnight
    Are you illiterate, or do the rules just not apply to you?

    craymond727
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    edited April 2016
    RedKnight said:

    Purudaya said:

    RedKnight said:

    Trust me, you dont want Gamergate organized campaign on your back. If we wanted to destroy this game, would do something much more effective and you would know about it.

    And there it is.

    No matter what ANYBODY says to offend you, it's NEVER appropriate to try and destroy something they've created. I don't care if Beamdog added a shrine to Anna Sarkeesian in the middle of Beregost and turned Minsc into an avid Bernie Sanders supporter while making it rain equality symbols from the goddamn sky. Sometimes in life people will insult you. You can insult them back. But that's where it ends.

    I'm going to repeat my new mantra: You don't get to demand to live in a world where you are never confronted with things you don't like.

    "We could destroy this game if we wanted to." What an angry life you must live.
    Jesus Christ! Can you not read, man? I said that we could destroy it if we wanted to - not that we will destroy it. Do you not see the difference?
    "Trust me, you don't want Gamergate organized campaign on your back."

    This implies that it is possible to deserve such a thing. Are you telling me you would be against a campaign to destroy this game even if the development team continued "insulting" you or if they didn't give you enough "respect"? What if they made further content that you didn't like despite your backlash? If you're willing to say that no game deserves to be destroyed by gamergate no matter how insulting you find it, then I'll happily retract my statement.

    And if you already said it in your Homer's Odyssey of a post, then please do forgive me.

  • RedKnightRedKnight Member Posts: 71
    edited April 2016
    Purudaya said:

    RedKnight said:

    Purudaya said:

    RedKnight said:

    Trust me, you dont want Gamergate organized campaign on your back. If we wanted to destroy this game, would do something much more effective and you would know about it.

    And there it is.

    No matter what ANYBODY says to offend you, it's NEVER appropriate to try and destroy something they've created. I don't care if Beamdog added a shrine to Anna Sarkeesian in the middle of Beregost and turned Minsc into an avid Bernie Sanders supporter while making it rain equality symbols from the goddamn sky. Sometimes in life people will insult you. You can insult them back. But that's where it ends.

    I'm going to repeat my new mantra: You don't get to demand to live in a world where you are never confronted with things you don't like.

    "We could destroy this game if we wanted to." What an angry life you must live.
    Jesus Christ! Can you not read, man? I said that we could destroy it if we wanted to - not that we will destroy it. Do you not see the difference?
    "Trust me, you don't want Gamergate organized campaign on your back."

    This implies that it is possible to deserve such a thing. Are you telling me you would be against a campaign to destroy this game even if the development team continued "insulting" you or if they didn't give you enough "respect"? What if they made further content that you didn't like despite your backlash? If you're willing to say that no game deserves to be destroyed by gamergate no matter how insulting you find it, then I'll happily retract my statement.
    Yes! I would be against such a campaign! And no, that quote doesnt imply what you think it implies, because there is the missing context before and after that you conveniently cut out.

    The missing context was along the lines: "Please stop being divisive with lies and misinformation. You are inviting the beast of gamergate into your game when you are being dishonest. There is no Gamergate campaign, and if there was you would know about it, beacause if we wanted to destroy your game we would do something much more effective."

    And by lies and misinformation I was talking about exactly the kind of bullshit you tried to pull here.

    Benjamin_the_Rogue
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    RedKnight said:

    Purudaya said:

    RedKnight said:

    Purudaya said:

    RedKnight said:

    Trust me, you dont want Gamergate organized campaign on your back. If we wanted to destroy this game, would do something much more effective and you would know about it.

    And there it is.

    No matter what ANYBODY says to offend you, it's NEVER appropriate to try and destroy something they've created. I don't care if Beamdog added a shrine to Anna Sarkeesian in the middle of Beregost and turned Minsc into an avid Bernie Sanders supporter while making it rain equality symbols from the goddamn sky. Sometimes in life people will insult you. You can insult them back. But that's where it ends.

    I'm going to repeat my new mantra: You don't get to demand to live in a world where you are never confronted with things you don't like.

    "We could destroy this game if we wanted to." What an angry life you must live.
    Jesus Christ! Can you not read, man? I said that we could destroy it if we wanted to - not that we will destroy it. Do you not see the difference?
    "Trust me, you don't want Gamergate organized campaign on your back."

    This implies that it is possible to deserve such a thing. Are you telling me you would be against a campaign to destroy this game even if the development team continued "insulting" you or if they didn't give you enough "respect"? What if they made further content that you didn't like despite your backlash? If you're willing to say that no game deserves to be destroyed by gamergate no matter how insulting you find it, then I'll happily retract my statement.
    Yes! I would be against such a campaign! And no, that quote doesnt imply what you think it implies, because there is the missing context before and after that you conveniently cut out.

    The missing context was along the lines: "Please stop being divisive with lies and misinformation. You are inviting the beast of gamergate into your game when you are being dishonest. There is no Gamergate campaign, and if there was you would know about it, beacause if we wanted to destroy your game we would do something much more effective."

    And by lies and misinformation I was talking about exactly the kind of bullshit you tried to pull here.
    Post edited. I still think you're a little nuts :wink:

  • RedKnightRedKnight Member Posts: 71
    edited April 2016
    Insultion said:

    @RedKnight
    Are you illiterate, or do the rules just not apply to you?

    What rules? Banning valid criticism and destroying any chance of having a discussion? You think creating a safe space for you special snow flakes is going to help or make things worse? If they ban people who think differently, those people will just leave even more determined that they were right and they will go to some other forum with a message that Beamdog has gone full SJW and is now baninng people on the accusation of "wrong-think".

    Beamdog can do what they want, of course. Its their forum, but I would recommend against it.

  • skeptik_59skeptik_59 Member Posts: 38
    edited April 2016
    @BrunoUlivi
    A couple or three things, if I might;

    A: Do a quick search online for "Anti-feminist Mad Max controversy". While everybody may have loved it in Brazil, the same can not be said for North America, and the USA specifically. There were actually boycotts [or attempted boycotts, anyways] against the movie specifically over how women were portrayed in the film [to the perceived detriment of the males].

    B: Sometimes force-feeding is not only an appropriate medical treatment, sometimes it is an appropriate "social" response as well. Now granted some people might object to the "treatment", but such is life. People object to all sorts of things - we don't get to all live in little personal bubbles that insulate us from the outside world.

    C: Some issues are important enough, to the people advocating for them, that subtlety is not a viable option. Indeed, subtlety may well have been tried, perhaps for decades and been found wanting, as a means of effecting meaningful change. No point in being subtle if it doesn't work, right?

    You are certainly entitled to not buy the game, and moreover, entitled to not buy it for any reason you come up with. No one needs to justify why they are not buying X product, nor even explain the decision, for that matter. Although people can, of course, choose to do both or either.

    Just as different types of entertainment appeal to different people, so does different content appeal differently to different people. If someone doesn't enjoy content X, then it makes complete sense to not pay for that content. I, for example, wouldn't pay to play a FPS, nor would I pay to watch one or more Kardashians. Other people do - such is life. That they do means nothing to me.

    So yeah, if you don't like what you have seen of the product don't purchase it. I doubt anyone here would argue with your having the freedom of choice to buy or not buy a particular game. Rah rah for the Free Market and all that... :)

  • Benjamin_the_RogueBenjamin_the_Rogue Member Posts: 9
    Purudaya said:

    RedKnight said:

    Purudaya said:

    RedKnight said:

    Trust me, you dont want Gamergate organized campaign on your back. If we wanted to destroy this game, would do something much more effective and you would know about it.

    And there it is.

    No matter what ANYBODY says to offend you, it's NEVER appropriate to try and destroy something they've created. I don't care if Beamdog added a shrine to Anna Sarkeesian in the middle of Beregost and turned Minsc into an avid Bernie Sanders supporter while making it rain equality symbols from the goddamn sky. Sometimes in life people will insult you. You can insult them back. But that's where it ends.

    I'm going to repeat my new mantra: You don't get to demand to live in a world where you are never confronted with things you don't like.

    "We could destroy this game if we wanted to." What an angry life you must live.
    Jesus Christ! Can you not read, man? I said that we could destroy it if we wanted to - not that we will destroy it. Do you not see the difference?
    "Trust me, you don't want Gamergate organized campaign on your back."

    This implies that it is possible to deserve such a thing. Are you telling me you would be against a campaign to destroy this game even if the development team continued "insulting" you or if they didn't give you enough "respect"? What if they made further content that you didn't like despite your backlash? If you're willing to say that no game deserves to be destroyed by gamergate no matter how insulting you find it, then I'll happily retract my statement.

    And if you already said it in your Homer's Odyssey of a post, then please do forgive me.
    I think what he is saying is, if you antagonize the community that pays for your product by openly insulting them, intentionally baiting them, and you try to cover your ass with paperthin excuses for why people are mad at you, you're only going to have yourself to blame when you end up with a PR disaster. Look at how many companies have been destroyed or heavily damaged by PR disasters. It's hardly something that only happens with stuff that involves Gamergate. I can think right off of the top of my head of at least three tech companies that don't exist anymore because their PR people screwed up terribly.

    And no matter what anyways says about the game, having your head writer do an interview calling the previous teams and fans of the series sexist without any really concrete evidence is a bad PR move. And then when there turns out to be real problems with the game itself, not just the lazy writing, and you start ignore that to instead blame your fans for being bigots, that's a PR disaster.

    atakdog
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136

    having your head writer do an interview calling the previous teams and fans of the series sexist without any really concrete evidence is a bad PR move.

    That is not a thing that happened.

    Kilivitzcraymond727Krotos
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816

    Purudaya said:

    RedKnight said:

    Purudaya said:

    RedKnight said:

    Trust me, you dont want Gamergate organized campaign on your back. If we wanted to destroy this game, would do something much more effective and you would know about it.

    And there it is.

    No matter what ANYBODY says to offend you, it's NEVER appropriate to try and destroy something they've created. I don't care if Beamdog added a shrine to Anna Sarkeesian in the middle of Beregost and turned Minsc into an avid Bernie Sanders supporter while making it rain equality symbols from the goddamn sky. Sometimes in life people will insult you. You can insult them back. But that's where it ends.

    I'm going to repeat my new mantra: You don't get to demand to live in a world where you are never confronted with things you don't like.

    "We could destroy this game if we wanted to." What an angry life you must live.
    Jesus Christ! Can you not read, man? I said that we could destroy it if we wanted to - not that we will destroy it. Do you not see the difference?
    "Trust me, you don't want Gamergate organized campaign on your back."

    This implies that it is possible to deserve such a thing. Are you telling me you would be against a campaign to destroy this game even if the development team continued "insulting" you or if they didn't give you enough "respect"? What if they made further content that you didn't like despite your backlash? If you're willing to say that no game deserves to be destroyed by gamergate no matter how insulting you find it, then I'll happily retract my statement.

    And if you already said it in your Homer's Odyssey of a post, then please do forgive me.
    I think what he is saying is, if you antagonize the community that pays for your product by openly insulting them, intentionally baiting them, and you try to cover your ass with paperthin excuses for why people are mad at you, you're only going to have yourself to blame when you end up with a PR disaster. Look at how many companies have been destroyed or heavily damaged by PR disasters. It's hardly something that only happens with stuff that involves Gamergate. I can think right off of the top of my head of at least three tech companies that don't exist anymore because their PR people screwed up terribly.

    And no matter what anyways says about the game, having your head writer do an interview calling the previous teams and fans of the series sexist without any really concrete evidence is a bad PR move. And then when there turns out to be real problems with the game itself, not just the lazy writing, and you start ignore that to instead blame your fans for being bigots, that's a PR disaster.
    Did she call the original teams sexist? Because that would include her own CEO and creative director. You realize that Beamdog is made up in part by the people who created the original Baldur's gate, right?

    Amber Scott said that there were sexist tropes re: two characters and one or two jokes in BG. She didn't say the game as a whole was sexist (she is an avid fan) OR call the fans sexist. You don't have to haul out her quote, by the way - I'm quite familiar with it. This is the problem with gamergate - you grab onto one or two little things and spin them into mountains.

    And no, I'm sorry, but no company deserves this level of hate over content this minor - no matter how "bad" their PR is. That's true even if that company is being attacked by so-called "SJWs," by the way.

    The over-the-top severity of this backlash is disproportionate to the content. You can disagree about that, but I think a lot of people looking in from the outside are seeing gamergate as more than a little wild-eyed right now.

    craymond727[Deleted User]Fawnky
  • Benjamin_the_RogueBenjamin_the_Rogue Member Posts: 9
    joluv said:

    having your head writer do an interview calling the previous teams and fans of the series sexist without any really concrete evidence is a bad PR move.

    That is not a thing that happened.
    “If there was something for the original Baldur’s Gate that just doesn’t mesh for modern day gamers like the sexism, [we tried to address that],” said writer Amber Scott. “In the original there’s a lot of jokes at women’s expense. Or if not a lot, there’s a couple, like Safana was just a sex object in BG 1, and Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy. We were able to say, ‘No, that’s not really the kind of story we want to make.’ In Siege of Dragonspear, Safana gets her own little storyline, she got a way better personality upgrade. If people don’t like that, then too bad.” - Amber Scott

  • Benjamin_the_RogueBenjamin_the_Rogue Member Posts: 9
    edited April 2016
    Purudaya said:

    Purudaya said:

    RedKnight said:

    Purudaya said:

    RedKnight said:

    Trust me, you dont want Gamergate organized campaign on your back. If we wanted to destroy this game, would do something much more effective and you would know about it.

    And there it is.

    No matter what ANYBODY says to offend you, it's NEVER appropriate to try and destroy something they've created. I don't care if Beamdog added a shrine to Anna Sarkeesian in the middle of Beregost and turned Minsc into an avid Bernie Sanders supporter while making it rain equality symbols from the goddamn sky. Sometimes in life people will insult you. You can insult them back. But that's where it ends.

    I'm going to repeat my new mantra: You don't get to demand to live in a world where you are never confronted with things you don't like.

    "We could destroy this game if we wanted to." What an angry life you must live.
    Jesus Christ! Can you not read, man? I said that we could destroy it if we wanted to - not that we will destroy it. Do you not see the difference?
    "Trust me, you don't want Gamergate organized campaign on your back."

    This implies that it is possible to deserve such a thing. Are you telling me you would be against a campaign to destroy this game even if the development team continued "insulting" you or if they didn't give you enough "respect"? What if they made further content that you didn't like despite your backlash? If you're willing to say that no game deserves to be destroyed by gamergate no matter how insulting you find it, then I'll happily retract my statement.

    And if you already said it in your Homer's Odyssey of a post, then please do forgive me.
    I think what he is saying is, if you antagonize the community that pays for your product by openly insulting them, intentionally baiting them, and you try to cover your ass with paperthin excuses for why people are mad at you, you're only going to have yourself to blame when you end up with a PR disaster. Look at how many companies have been destroyed or heavily damaged by PR disasters. It's hardly something that only happens with stuff that involves Gamergate. I can think right off of the top of my head of at least three tech companies that don't exist anymore because their PR people screwed up terribly.

    And no matter what anyways says about the game, having your head writer do an interview calling the previous teams and fans of the series sexist without any really concrete evidence is a bad PR move. And then when there turns out to be real problems with the game itself, not just the lazy writing, and you start ignore that to instead blame your fans for being bigots, that's a PR disaster.
    Did she call the original teams sexist? Because that would include her own CEO and creative director. You realize that Beamdog is made up in part by the people who created the original Baldur's gate, right?

    Amber Scott said that there were sexist tropes re: two characters and one or two jokes in BG. She didn't say the game as a whole was sexist (she is an avid fan) OR call the fans sexist. You don't have to haul out her quote, by the way - I'm quite familiar with it. This is the problem with gamergate - you grab onto one or two little things and spin them into mountains.

    And no, I'm sorry, but no company deserves this level of hate over content this minor - no matter how "bad" their PR is. That's true even if that company is being attacked by so-called "SJWs," by the way.

    The over-the-top severity of this backlash is disproportionate to the content. You can disagree about that, but I think a lot of people looking in from the outside are seeing gamergate as more than a little wild-eyed right now.
    See my above post. She says there was a lot of sexist content.

  • Benjamin_the_RogueBenjamin_the_Rogue Member Posts: 9
    The thing that gets me the most out of that is: "In the original there’s a lot of jokes at women’s expense. Or if not a lot, there’s a couple..."

    So was there a lot of sexism, or not? Because she sounds like she's accusing people of making sexist content, but then she's not really sure if it exists, but presses on anyways assuming that there had to be. That's foolish, and that's what creates PR messes. Like this current one.

    atakdog
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816

    Purudaya said:

    Purudaya said:

    RedKnight said:

    Purudaya said:

    RedKnight said:

    Trust me, you dont want Gamergate organized campaign on your back. If we wanted to destroy this game, would do something much more effective and you would know about it.

    And there it is.

    No matter what ANYBODY says to offend you, it's NEVER appropriate to try and destroy something they've created. I don't care if Beamdog added a shrine to Anna Sarkeesian in the middle of Beregost and turned Minsc into an avid Bernie Sanders supporter while making it rain equality symbols from the goddamn sky. Sometimes in life people will insult you. You can insult them back. But that's where it ends.

    I'm going to repeat my new mantra: You don't get to demand to live in a world where you are never confronted with things you don't like.

    "We could destroy this game if we wanted to." What an angry life you must live.
    Jesus Christ! Can you not read, man? I said that we could destroy it if we wanted to - not that we will destroy it. Do you not see the difference?
    "Trust me, you don't want Gamergate organized campaign on your back."

    This implies that it is possible to deserve such a thing. Are you telling me you would be against a campaign to destroy this game even if the development team continued "insulting" you or if they didn't give you enough "respect"? What if they made further content that you didn't like despite your backlash? If you're willing to say that no game deserves to be destroyed by gamergate no matter how insulting you find it, then I'll happily retract my statement.

    And if you already said it in your Homer's Odyssey of a post, then please do forgive me.
    I think what he is saying is, if you antagonize the community that pays for your product by openly insulting them, intentionally baiting them, and you try to cover your ass with paperthin excuses for why people are mad at you, you're only going to have yourself to blame when you end up with a PR disaster. Look at how many companies have been destroyed or heavily damaged by PR disasters. It's hardly something that only happens with stuff that involves Gamergate. I can think right off of the top of my head of at least three tech companies that don't exist anymore because their PR people screwed up terribly.

    And no matter what anyways says about the game, having your head writer do an interview calling the previous teams and fans of the series sexist without any really concrete evidence is a bad PR move. And then when there turns out to be real problems with the game itself, not just the lazy writing, and you start ignore that to instead blame your fans for being bigots, that's a PR disaster.
    Did she call the original teams sexist? Because that would include her own CEO and creative director. You realize that Beamdog is made up in part by the people who created the original Baldur's gate, right?

    Amber Scott said that there were sexist tropes re: two characters and one or two jokes in BG. She didn't say the game as a whole was sexist (she is an avid fan) OR call the fans sexist. You don't have to haul out her quote, by the way - I'm quite familiar with it. This is the problem with gamergate - you grab onto one or two little things and spin them into mountains.

    And no, I'm sorry, but no company deserves this level of hate over content this minor - no matter how "bad" their PR is. That's true even if that company is being attacked by so-called "SJWs," by the way.

    The over-the-top severity of this backlash is disproportionate to the content. You can disagree about that, but I think a lot of people looking in from the outside are seeing gamergate as more than a little wild-eyed right now.
    See my above post.
    Lol, you obviously didn't read mine.

  • Benjamin_the_RogueBenjamin_the_Rogue Member Posts: 9
    Purudaya said:

    Purudaya said:

    Purudaya said:

    RedKnight said:

    Purudaya said:

    RedKnight said:

    Trust me, you dont want Gamergate organized campaign on your back. If we wanted to destroy this game, would do something much more effective and you would know about it.

    And there it is.

    No matter what ANYBODY says to offend you, it's NEVER appropriate to try and destroy something they've created. I don't care if Beamdog added a shrine to Anna Sarkeesian in the middle of Beregost and turned Minsc into an avid Bernie Sanders supporter while making it rain equality symbols from the goddamn sky. Sometimes in life people will insult you. You can insult them back. But that's where it ends.

    I'm going to repeat my new mantra: You don't get to demand to live in a world where you are never confronted with things you don't like.

    "We could destroy this game if we wanted to." What an angry life you must live.
    Jesus Christ! Can you not read, man? I said that we could destroy it if we wanted to - not that we will destroy it. Do you not see the difference?
    "Trust me, you don't want Gamergate organized campaign on your back."

    This implies that it is possible to deserve such a thing. Are you telling me you would be against a campaign to destroy this game even if the development team continued "insulting" you or if they didn't give you enough "respect"? What if they made further content that you didn't like despite your backlash? If you're willing to say that no game deserves to be destroyed by gamergate no matter how insulting you find it, then I'll happily retract my statement.

    And if you already said it in your Homer's Odyssey of a post, then please do forgive me.
    I think what he is saying is, if you antagonize the community that pays for your product by openly insulting them, intentionally baiting them, and you try to cover your ass with paperthin excuses for why people are mad at you, you're only going to have yourself to blame when you end up with a PR disaster. Look at how many companies have been destroyed or heavily damaged by PR disasters. It's hardly something that only happens with stuff that involves Gamergate. I can think right off of the top of my head of at least three tech companies that don't exist anymore because their PR people screwed up terribly.

    And no matter what anyways says about the game, having your head writer do an interview calling the previous teams and fans of the series sexist without any really concrete evidence is a bad PR move. And then when there turns out to be real problems with the game itself, not just the lazy writing, and you start ignore that to instead blame your fans for being bigots, that's a PR disaster.
    Did she call the original teams sexist? Because that would include her own CEO and creative director. You realize that Beamdog is made up in part by the people who created the original Baldur's gate, right?

    Amber Scott said that there were sexist tropes re: two characters and one or two jokes in BG. She didn't say the game as a whole was sexist (she is an avid fan) OR call the fans sexist. You don't have to haul out her quote, by the way - I'm quite familiar with it. This is the problem with gamergate - you grab onto one or two little things and spin them into mountains.

    And no, I'm sorry, but no company deserves this level of hate over content this minor - no matter how "bad" their PR is. That's true even if that company is being attacked by so-called "SJWs," by the way.

    The over-the-top severity of this backlash is disproportionate to the content. You can disagree about that, but I think a lot of people looking in from the outside are seeing gamergate as more than a little wild-eyed right now.
    See my above post.
    Lol, you obviously didn't read mine.
    I stopped after the first paragraph. It seemed you were just going to handwave it away. And you did.

  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816

    The thing that gets me the most out of that is: "In the original there’s a lot of jokes at women’s expense. Or if not a lot, there’s a couple..."

    So was there a lot of sexism, or not? Because she sounds like she's accusing people of making sexist content, but then she's not really sure if it exists, but presses on anyways assuming that there had to be. That's foolish, and that's what creates PR messes. Like this current one.

    Just because there's content that someone sees as a sexist trope doesn't mean that she's accusing the creators of the game of being sexist. Again, those people are her CURRENT EMPLOYERS.

    The game was made in 1998; there are bound to be a few sexist tropes. Just like a movie made in 1960 might have a few racial ones. In her view, it's reflective of the time the game was made, not an indictment of the game's writers - again, some of whom employ her and are standing by her comments.

    craymond727NomphosumusFawnky
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816

    Purudaya said:

    Purudaya said:

    Purudaya said:

    RedKnight said:

    Purudaya said:

    RedKnight said:

    Trust me, you dont want Gamergate organized campaign on your back. If we wanted to destroy this game, would do something much more effective and you would know about it.

    And there it is.

    No matter what ANYBODY says to offend you, it's NEVER appropriate to try and destroy something they've created. I don't care if Beamdog added a shrine to Anna Sarkeesian in the middle of Beregost and turned Minsc into an avid Bernie Sanders supporter while making it rain equality symbols from the goddamn sky. Sometimes in life people will insult you. You can insult them back. But that's where it ends.

    I'm going to repeat my new mantra: You don't get to demand to live in a world where you are never confronted with things you don't like.

    "We could destroy this game if we wanted to." What an angry life you must live.
    Jesus Christ! Can you not read, man? I said that we could destroy it if we wanted to - not that we will destroy it. Do you not see the difference?
    "Trust me, you don't want Gamergate organized campaign on your back."

    This implies that it is possible to deserve such a thing. Are you telling me you would be against a campaign to destroy this game even if the development team continued "insulting" you or if they didn't give you enough "respect"? What if they made further content that you didn't like despite your backlash? If you're willing to say that no game deserves to be destroyed by gamergate no matter how insulting you find it, then I'll happily retract my statement.

    And if you already said it in your Homer's Odyssey of a post, then please do forgive me.
    I think what he is saying is, if you antagonize the community that pays for your product by openly insulting them, intentionally baiting them, and you try to cover your ass with paperthin excuses for why people are mad at you, you're only going to have yourself to blame when you end up with a PR disaster. Look at how many companies have been destroyed or heavily damaged by PR disasters. It's hardly something that only happens with stuff that involves Gamergate. I can think right off of the top of my head of at least three tech companies that don't exist anymore because their PR people screwed up terribly.

    And no matter what anyways says about the game, having your head writer do an interview calling the previous teams and fans of the series sexist without any really concrete evidence is a bad PR move. And then when there turns out to be real problems with the game itself, not just the lazy writing, and you start ignore that to instead blame your fans for being bigots, that's a PR disaster.
    Did she call the original teams sexist? Because that would include her own CEO and creative director. You realize that Beamdog is made up in part by the people who created the original Baldur's gate, right?

    Amber Scott said that there were sexist tropes re: two characters and one or two jokes in BG. She didn't say the game as a whole was sexist (she is an avid fan) OR call the fans sexist. You don't have to haul out her quote, by the way - I'm quite familiar with it. This is the problem with gamergate - you grab onto one or two little things and spin them into mountains.

    And no, I'm sorry, but no company deserves this level of hate over content this minor - no matter how "bad" their PR is. That's true even if that company is being attacked by so-called "SJWs," by the way.

    The over-the-top severity of this backlash is disproportionate to the content. You can disagree about that, but I think a lot of people looking in from the outside are seeing gamergate as more than a little wild-eyed right now.
    See my above post.
    Lol, you obviously didn't read mine.
    I stopped after the first paragraph. It seemed you were just going to handwave it away. And you did.
    Try again. It's not exactly an endless wall of text.

  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    Purudaya said:


    The over-the-top severity of this backlash is disproportionate to the content. You can disagree about that, but I think a lot of people looking in from the outside are seeing gamergate as more than a little wild-eyed right now.

    I know I am.

    If anything, this overreaction is just going to encourage people to be more insistent on political correctness, and PC will take on an even harsher character than it has now. This is like an arms race.

    I'm not a fan of a lot of PC culture when it has negative effects on public policy discussions, or is used to stifle free expression. However, those are serious issues and worth debating. This is one small little, tiny snipe in a videogame and one little, minor character. It is entertainment. It is inconsequential, even within the realm of the political correctness discussion. I don't know if I've seen a bigger first world problem.

    PurudayaKilivitzKrotos[Deleted User]
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited April 2016
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    KilivitzKrotosNomphosumus
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136

    “If there was something for the original Baldur’s Gate that just doesn’t mesh for modern day gamers like the sexism, [we tried to address that],” said writer Amber Scott. “In the original there’s a lot of jokes at women’s expense. Or if not a lot, there’s a couple, like Safana was just a sex object in BG 1, and Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy. We were able to say, ‘No, that’s not really the kind of story we want to make.’ In Siege of Dragonspear, Safana gets her own little storyline, she got a way better personality upgrade. If people don’t like that, then too bad.” - Amber Scott

    Like @Purudaya, I am quite familiar with this quote.

    Let's pour one out for @RedKnight, by the way. May it never be said that he wasn't committed to his cause.

  • skeptik_59skeptik_59 Member Posts: 38

    I think what he is saying is, if you antagonize the community [...]


    Just to clarify here, they didn't "antagonize *the* community [...]", who may or may not have been potential customers, rather they appear to have antagonized a sub-set of a broader community. A fraction of a whole, certainly not the entire whole.

    Not all people who game have been antagonized by BDs decisions here, so speaking as if there is some monolithic "community" of gamers who all think in lock-step and react to whatever, all in the same way, is not only inaccurate, but unbecoming as well. Reducing all people who play games to a stereotype is hardly a good way to make a first impression, on a forum made up mostly, or perhaps solely of people who play games... IMO of course.

    Yes, BD appears to have pissed off some people who happen to have gaming as a hobby. Since there are also many people here and elsewhere that BD has *NOT* pissed off through their decisions, your assertion re: a , or "the", community, fails on its face...

    PurudayaNomphosumus
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    edited April 2016
    To be fair, @Redknight did say in his magnum opus back there that he wouldn't condone any sort of destructive action. The tone of his posts doesn't seem to reflect that, but I genuinely/tentatively take him at his word. I would encourage him and others to put their words into action and denounce this review bombing over on reddit or wherever else the gamerbros like to...coagulate.

    Illustairskeptik_59Krotos[Deleted User]
This discussion has been closed.