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User Ratings on Metacritic (*SPOILERS*)

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Comments

  • mzacharymzachary Member Posts: 106

    @Diogenes42 i agree with what you said. however i think u can control what happens at some extent by bringing someone who is mostly neutral and doesnt declare that he takes sides in political wars. at least thats the way i see it..

    How interesting dear @vanilla_BG_purist so you want to censor potential future installments of views you do not like to abide an angry mob that for the most part not even seems to own the game?

  • FinnTheHumanFinnTheHuman Member Posts: 404
    Dee said:
    Well, I guess the 990th reply decided it, not the 1000th

    typo_tilly
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447

    Dee said:
    Well, I guess the 990th reply decided it, not the 1000th
    I tried really hard to get Trent to wait for another ten posts, but apparently doing the right thing was more important than hitting a post-count milestone. ;)

    @Purudaya - since this is your thread, I don't know if you want us to keep open to let the discussion continue, or if you'd like us to close it. Let me know.

    FinnTheHumanDetectiveMittensKrotos
  • Diogenes42Diogenes42 Member Posts: 597
    @vanilla_BG_purist

    I think the problem friend is that we all have different ideas of what is neutral. For example I think including trans or gay characters in Baldur's Gate to be neutral, there are such people in the real world so why not such people in a fantasy world? Another person might see that going too far in terms of trying to be "politically correct" while another might think it doesn't go far enough. The best we can do is treat others with respect and try to work these things out as friends and fans of a great game series.

    Nomphosumus
  • FinnTheHumanFinnTheHuman Member Posts: 404
    Haha. Really? Man, I was about close to spamming the next 10 posts anyway.

    Well, its been swell, but the swelling's gone down. So see ya later.

    [Deleted User]
  • AndrewRogueAndrewRogue Member Posts: 72
    So, it just occurred to me on the subject of introducing this sort of material into the series.

    If we bounce back to BG2, we actually have an early 2000s "SJW" in the game: Nalia de'Arnise. Like, she is a dead ringer for a lot of elements of the archetype. This series has already metaphorically explored the concepts of social justice!

  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    Dee said:
    We'll see if any of these people change their 0-star reviews now. I hope the devs removed the line because they *really* believed it should be removed and not because of the harassment.

    Unfortunately, I'm not sure if this will end until every single one of gamergate's complaints are addressed... I hope I'm wrong.

    And I hope this doesn't set a dangerous precedent for groups like this to review bomb developers in the future. Not sure how I feel about this.

    booinyoureyesMoradinKrotos
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited April 2016
    It's very bad news for creative freedom. You should never give an inch to bullies, because they will just keep coming back for more.

    Prediction: the review bombing will never end, and when Beamdog folds they will move onto the next developer, and the next, and then the next.

    Any group who uses the suggestion that someone cares about justice, social or otherwise, as an insult, is pretty much the D&D definition of evil, is it not?

    [Deleted User]Krotosskeptik_59
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    Dee said:

    Dee said:
    Well, I guess the 990th reply decided it, not the 1000th
    I tried really hard to get Trent to wait for another ten posts, but apparently doing the right thing was more important than hitting a post-count milestone. ;)

    @Purudaya - since this is your thread, I don't know if you want us to keep open to let the discussion continue, or if you'd like us to close it. Let me know.
    I would like it to remain open until the review bombing campaign ends, which is what this thread was about. Also, closing it may cause several other threads to pop up in its place. But I'll trust you to make whatever call you feel is best for the community.

    booinyoureyes
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    edited April 2016
    Purudaya said:

    Dee said:

    Dee said:
    Well, I guess the 990th reply decided it, not the 1000th
    I tried really hard to get Trent to wait for another ten posts, but apparently doing the right thing was more important than hitting a post-count milestone. ;)

    @Purudaya - since this is your thread, I don't know if you want us to keep open to let the discussion continue, or if you'd like us to close it. Let me know.
    I would like it to remain open until the review bombing campaign ends, which is what this thread was about. Also, closing it may cause several other threads to pop up in its place. But I'll trust you to make whatever call you feel is best for the community.
    That said, the thread has often veered off topic. Again, your call.

  • BeowulfBeowulf Member Posts: 236
    There are people who do abhorrent unspeakable things that are normal for the culture one culture puts babes born with any sort of birth defecet born in a shallow hole with rocks atop them ( this is a controversial cultural war for the last isolated tribe in the Amazon Christians want to stop them make them learn laws and be overeat chef by the government while left leaning Eco socialist want them left to govern themselves and kill who they like as their religion desegnated those babes as evil spirit touched)

    @Fardragon "But that's the thing: there is no political agenda, SoD mealy reflects life in the 21st century, not the 19th. "

    No, it reflects a political view (a divisive one) of how things should be; that is not 'life in the 21st century' it is /one/ view of it.

    Sorry to bother you friend but what political view is this? That trans people exist? Is that not demonstrably clear at this point?
    Do not reply withe a friend comment

    The fact is the options for the character to reply in more than one case and the modern vocabulary the Mocs use and opinions they express are PC. Why would any one put a character in who kills babes and then have you unable to protest it? Why put the character im at all! The same holds true for some of the controversial modern junk herein

  • AndrewRogueAndrewRogue Member Posts: 72
    Fardragon said:

    It's very bad news for creative freedom. You should never give an inch to bullies, because they will just keep coming back for more.

    That I disagree with. The actions here are reasonable. Even as someone on "Beamdog's side" (and who chuckled at "It's about ethics in adventuring"), it was a fairly questionable decision in the first place and backtracking on it is fair.

    Keep in mind: despite the vocal minority of assholes, there have been people who have had decently phrased concerns and complaints. Nothing wrong with responding to those.

    booinyoureyesRawgrimIakusKrotos
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    Purudaya said:

    Dee said:

    Dee said:
    Well, I guess the 990th reply decided it, not the 1000th
    I tried really hard to get Trent to wait for another ten posts, but apparently doing the right thing was more important than hitting a post-count milestone. ;)

    @Purudaya - since this is your thread, I don't know if you want us to keep open to let the discussion continue, or if you'd like us to close it. Let me know.
    I would like it to remain open until the review bombing campaign ends, which is what this thread was about. Also, closing it may cause several other threads to pop up in its place. But I'll trust you to make whatever call you feel is best for the community.
    Thanks for keeping it open, Purudaya. Hopefully the discussion on this will filter here, rather than ten million threads. I, and I'm sure many other longtime forumites, were looking forward to the release and talking about other parts of the game and are a little distraught that this topic is taking up half the forum. I think many people have been scared away from talking about other parts of the game in fear that this culture war stuff will bleed over into other threads.

    While I don't think the gamergate line with Minsc was wise, I do worry that changing it encourages bad behavior. That said, now that it appears to be settled, maybe the forum will return to the awesome place it has been forever.



    Hopefully we can get back to talking about the truly important things in life... like speculating about who could portray Glint in a well-funded Baldur's Gate television series produced by HBO starring Steven Strait as the Bhaalspawn.

    Foggy
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited April 2016

    Fardragon said:

    It's very bad news for creative freedom. You should never give an inch to bullies, because they will just keep coming back for more.

    That I disagree with. The actions here are reasonable. Even as someone on "Beamdog's side" (and who chuckled at "It's about ethics in adventuring"), it was a fairly questionable decision in the first place and backtracking on it is fair.

    Keep in mind: despite the vocal minority of assholes, there have been people who have had decently phrased concerns and complaints. Nothing wrong with responding to those.
    That doesn't really matter. The actual quality of the writing is irrelevant. What matters is the right of the writer to express themselves without fear of persecution. Moving at all will simply make the persecution worse.

  • MoradinMoradin Member Posts: 372
    @Fardragon All in all, I think Trent stood his ground. He didn't give up to bullies, as you put it. He was wise enough to recognize that the Minsc line was kinda out of character and addressed the Mizhena issue with style. I just to tell @TrentOster that many in this community will continue to support Beamdog. You created good content in the past and SoD is better than good. It's great content.

    MythagoJuliusBorisovGozeta
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    edited April 2016
    When presented with the "new" Mizhena, I have doubts that Gamergate will be more supportive now that she has *more* screen time. No matter what you write or how you write it, they will continue to cry SJW and claim that it could have still been better written ad absurdum. And that's because Gamergate is more anti trans inclusion than they are anti bad writing. I really, really hope Trent knows what he's doing.

    I've heard a lot of "It's not just the trans character, the WHOLE GAME pushes an agenda" on these forums in the past few days. If you give a mouse a cookie...

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited April 2016
    Moradin said:

    @Fardragon All in all, I think Trent stood his ground. He didn't give up to bullies, as you put it. He was wise enough to recognize that the Minsc line was kinda out of character and addressed the Mizhena issue with style. I just to tell @TrentOster that many in this community will continue to support Beamdog. You created good content in the past and SoD is better than good. It's great content.

    Nevertheless, the bigots will be encouraged by what they see as a partial victory to keep pushing for more. This won't stop it, it will make it worse.

    Whatever happens, future developers are going to be afraid to include transexual characters in thier games, while the bigots move on to the next hated minority they want exterminated from the media.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,723
    Totally disagree with the choice by Beamdog to give in to an online intimidation campaign, as I don't believe it does anything but enable the ravenous hordes to demand more, and if you think they'll be satisfied or that the reviews will stop being bombed....well, I'm sorry to say that's not going to happen. That said, it's there decision to make, and they've made it.

    skeptik_59
  • AndrewRogueAndrewRogue Member Posts: 72
    Fardragon said:

    Moradin said:

    @Fardragon All in all, I think Trent stood his ground. He didn't give up to bullies, as you put it. He was wise enough to recognize that the Minsc line was kinda out of character and addressed the Mizhena issue with style. I just to tell @TrentOster that many in this community will continue to support Beamdog. You created good content in the past and SoD is better than good. It's great content.

    Nevertheless, the bigots will be encouraged by what they see as a partial victory to keep pushing for more. This won't stop it, it will make it worse.
    And they'd see no movement as the SJW Illuminati taking over gaming and push back even harder next time, too.

    The people who are being unreasonable are, by definition, unreasonable. You can't win with them. You can win with the sane people. And that's what Trent is doing.

    [Deleted User]Krotos
  • WalrusRiderWalrusRider Member Posts: 5

    Dee said:
    Well, I guess the 990th reply decided it, not the 1000th
    These seem to be the biggest reasons why people are objecting to the "SJW content" in this game:
    -A complete stranger that blurts out their sexual identity to you on the street
    -The Minsc Gamergate Joke
    -Changing the personalities of several already well established characters to be less "sexist" in the eyes of a writer who proudly calls herself an SJW
    -Appealing to Feminist Frequency and Kotaku to defend the game
    -A lack of dialogue options. Where is the option to reject or respond negatively to the trans character? There was a scene where you pretty much catch a woman red-handed after murdering her husband, and you are railroaded into "well, he probably deserved it".

    It is good to see some acknowledgement of negative feedback towards Mizhena and the Minsc joke, but as you can see this is only part of the reason why people are objecting to the SJW content in this game. Personally I don't even care if a trans character is in the game. If I don't like a character, then I just won't use them - but when you radically change existing characters that I actually do like using then you should not be surprised when the game gets a poor rating.

  • Diogenes42Diogenes42 Member Posts: 597

    If I don't like a character, then I just won't use them - but when you radically change existing characters that I actually do like using then you should not be surprised when the game gets a poor rating.

    You should be happy to learn that none of the characters from the previous games have been radically changed then friend.

  • iassoniasson Member Posts: 101
    I appreciate your decision to expand Mizhena and i personally think it is one of the major requirements of SoD.

    Future petitions:
    - Captain Corwin, tweak the dialog slightly so it doesn't imply mansplaining her.
    - Refugees dialog, add another dialog option that isn't biased towards them
    - Restore Safana to her teasing nature
    - try to add various dialog responses on minor situations

  • MiloMilo Member Posts: 59
    iasson said:

    I appreciate your decision to expand Mizhena and i personally think it is one of the major requirements of SoD.

    Future petitions:
    - Captain Corwin, tweak the dialog slightly so it doesn't imply mansplaining her.
    - Refugees dialog, add another dialog option that isn't biased towards them
    - Restore Safana to her teasing nature
    - try to add various dialog responses on minor situations

    Give an inch, they'll take a mile.

    That's why you don't bow down to bullying.

    Bad move.

    booinyoureyes
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816

    Totally disagree with the choice by Beamdog to give in to an online intimidation campaign, as I don't believe it does anything but enable the ravenous hordes to demand more, and if you think they'll be satisfied or that the reviews will stop being bombed....well, I'm sorry to say that's not going to happen. That said, it's there decision to make, and they've made it.

    I agree with you on principle 100%. On strategy, this might be the intention:

    1. Once they hear the announcement, they will lay off until the new Mizhena content is released.
    2. By the time the new Mizhena content is released, they will have moved on.

    I don't agree with the ethics of it, but it may have been a necessary move depending on how much harm the abuse was doing to the company. This is all just conjecture, of course – I have no insights into Beamdog's financial situation.

    What's sad is that if people would have just asked nicely and with positive intentions for a better Mizhena on the forums, they probably wouldn't gotten it. Unfortunately, that's not what Gamergate really wants.

  • WalrusRiderWalrusRider Member Posts: 5

    If I don't like a character, then I just won't use them - but when you radically change existing characters that I actually do like using then you should not be surprised when the game gets a poor rating.

    You should be happy to learn that none of the characters from the previous games have been radically changed then friend.
    I don't think that this is true at all. I've partied with Safana before. She never acted like this.

  • Diogenes42Diogenes42 Member Posts: 597

    I don't think that this is true at all. I've partied with Safana before. She never acted like this.

    In Baldur's Gate she acted sexy all the time and that was about it. In Dragonspear she acts sexy all the time too. I didn't do her romance, does she calm down or something if you do that?

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,723
    Purudaya said:

    Totally disagree with the choice by Beamdog to give in to an online intimidation campaign, as I don't believe it does anything but enable the ravenous hordes to demand more, and if you think they'll be satisfied or that the reviews will stop being bombed....well, I'm sorry to say that's not going to happen. That said, it's there decision to make, and they've made it.

    I agree with you on principle 100%. On strategy, this might be the intention:

    1. Once they hear the announcement, they will lay off until the new Mizhena content is released.
    2. By the time the new Mizhena content is released, they will have moved on.

    I don't agree with the ethics of it, but it may have been a necessary move depending on how much harm the abuse was doing to the company. This is all just conjecture, of course – I have no insights into Beamdog's financial situation.

    What's sad is that if people would have just asked nicely and with positive intentions for a better Mizhena on the forums, they probably wouldn't gotten it. Unfortunately, that's not what Gamergate really wants.
    It's not worth fighting about anymore. Sadly, these are the type of people who win. What's the line from Yeats?? "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity". It proves itself again here. In my experience in these situations, even after they've won, they can't help continuing to beat the other side over the head with it until they are knocked out. The last scene in Deadwood, when Hearst has gotten everything he wanted, and he still can't help running his mouth as he leaves town, and Bullock says to him "Every bully I ever met never knew when to shut his mouth". We'll see I guess. Rack up another win for the bad guys....

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136
    Beowulf said:

    The fact is the options for the character to reply in more than one case and the modern vocabulary the Mocs use and opinions they express are PC. Why would any one put a character in who kills babes and then have you unable to protest it? Why put the character im at all! The same holds true for some of the controversial modern junk herein

    I had some difficulty reading your comment, so I apologize if I'm misunderstanding. Are you saying that being trans is in the same category as killing babies, i.e., something that is allegedly tolerated in some cultures but that you find morally repugnant?

    Samycbarker15
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    If you are going to announce changes to the game, then you need to announce that they will be the *only* changes. This is important.

    Calls for more have already started in this thread 20 minutes after you made your statement.

This discussion has been closed.