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Beamdog: Solutions to Crisis

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
edited April 2016 in Off-Topic
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  • Greenman019Greenman019 Member Posts: 206
    edited April 2016




    1. Replace Minsc's 'ethics in heroic adventuring' line with something else that fits the mood (e.g., 'butt kicking for goodness'). Many GamerGaters genuinely want better representation of minorities in games.

    ~Thalantyr

    I've not seen the line in game yet and I'm completely ignorant of the GG stuff. What's the issue with this line?
  • Mikey205Mikey205 Member Posts: 307
    Best would be getting more critic reviews and doing more interviews and pr.
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,207
    I really really really doubt Minsc's line will get changed, tilly. Whoever came up with it think it's hilarious, appropriate, and they're in the right for adding it. And as much as I hate agreeing with shawne, he's right in that WotC and Oster have signed off on it and thus evidently thinks it's a non-issue.

    I've not seen the line in game yet and I'm completely ignorant of the GG stuff. What's the issue with this line?

    It's one of Minsc's new "Rare Selection" sounds. Basically it's mocking the Gamergate movement. What's the issue with antagonizing a group of people? Where to start...

    Though the real issue, in my point of view, is that it's incredibly badly voice acted. It sounds like it's put together using text-to-speech software. Drawn out and awkward.
  • TschakongPGTschakongPG Member Posts: 2
    As you call it in german: Der Kluegere gibt nach. An apology for the bad PR and quality control would be very helpful. An open Beta would have helped a lot. Thread OP is right in my opinion. Siege of Dragonspear is a good game, but has many things that need to be polished. Anyway Beamdog did a great job with the EE's. Once the lot bugs are gone and the immersion is restored, it will be also as great.
  • Greenman019Greenman019 Member Posts: 206

    I really really really doubt Minsc's line will get changed, tilly. Whoever came up with it think it's hilarious, appropriate, and they're in the right for adding it. And as much as I hate agreeing with shawne, he's right in that WotC and Oster have signed off on it and thus evidently thinks it's a non-issue.

    I've not seen the line in game yet and I'm completely ignorant of the GG stuff. What's the issue with this line?

    It's one of Minsc's new "Rare Selection" sounds. Basically it's mocking the Gamergate movement. What's the issue with antagonizing a group of people? Where to start...

    Though the real issue, in my point of view, is that it's incredibly badly voice acted. It sounds like it's put together using text-to-speech software. Drawn out and awkward.
    Thanks for the explanation.
  • prem0nitionprem0nition Member Posts: 65

  • FinnTheHumanFinnTheHuman Member Posts: 404
    @typo_tilly, @Silverstar,

    I don't understand about the Minsc line. GamerGate is associated with harassment and misogyny. So yeah, poke fun. Make a joke. Don't censor yourself based on blowback. That would not be noble. Sure, there are practical reasons for such censorship...

    I'm trying to understand why this quote is bad. All I can get is that it will make some people angry. Some people that tend to make others lives hard by, such as, spamming bad reviews. Is that what is wrong with this quote? If thats the case, I gotta love Beamdog more for putting that little gem in there.
  • Diogenes42Diogenes42 Member Posts: 597
    What a friendly looking fellow that is.
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  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816

    Right. I've said before that if people truly feel that it's the method of representation of the minority that matters, then if they continue to protest the trans person's inclusion, we'll know those people weren't truthful in their original statements. I have no doubt that many people who call themselves GamerGaters or Social Justice Warriors are people who want better representation in games. There are surely also people who count themselves among those groups who don't want better representation in games, yet claim they do. Wouldn't this event cause a possible split from those hateful people hiding behind reasonable people?

    It's also true that some keep mentioning Amber Scott rather than Andrew Foley, Phil Daigle, Dave Gross, or Chris Avellone. I think it's her interview that's caused the increase attention moreso than her gender.

    To me, the response to the mild tokenism of a trans person has been a wild overreaction. But I'm willing to concede -- to offer trust -- that trans allies who are strongly denouncing the character's representation may be truthful. If Beamdog were to change things, would many of these former denouncers change their opinions? This isn't all about Beamdog. It's about the reaction of people who consider themselves anti-SJWs and GGs. If they're truly good, they'll show it when offered a hand.

    It won't transform the issue because to the gamergate crowd, no change will ever be "well-written" enough. Beamdog could alter the character 10 times to try and depict her more faithfully and this will continue with only more momentum because these people now have the power to influence the game's content.
  • prem0nitionprem0nition Member Posts: 65

    @typo_tilly, @Silverstar,

    I don't understand about the Minsc line. GamerGate is associated with harassment and misogyny. So yeah, poke fun. Make a joke. Don't censor yourself based on blowback. That would not be noble. Sure, there are practical reasons for such censorship...

    I'm trying to understand why this quote is bad. All I can get is that it will make some people angry. Some people that tend to make others lives hard by, such as, spamming bad reviews. Is that what is wrong with this quote? If thats the case, I gotta love Beamdog more for putting that little gem in there.

    Minsc is a character that is beloved by pretty much everyone. On this very forum you've got people who oppose the whole GG controversy upset that Beamdog have turned Minsc into the Dudebro GG strawman, and those who support GG upset that one of their favourite characters is outright mocking what they believe to be legitimate issues which were brought up at the start of GG and then purposely buried in the harassment narrative.

    I'm sure Beamdog meant well with this line, but it has backfired on them from both sides.

    Feel free to watch this video by Liana Kerzner, who explains the reaction in further detail.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTkQxgtuOLU
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816

    @typo_tilly, @Silverstar,

    I don't understand about the Minsc line. GamerGate is associated with harassment and misogyny. So yeah, poke fun. Make a joke. Don't censor yourself based on blowback. That would not be noble. Sure, there are practical reasons for such censorship...

    I'm trying to understand why this quote is bad. All I can get is that it will make some people angry. Some people that tend to make others lives hard by, such as, spamming bad reviews. Is that what is wrong with this quote? If thats the case, I gotta love Beamdog more for putting that little gem in there.

    Minsc is a character that is beloved by pretty much everyone. On this very forum you've got people who oppose the whole GG controversy upset that Beamdog have turned Minsc into the Dudebro GG strawman, and those who support GG upset that one of their favourite characters is outright mocking what they believe to be legitimate issues which were brought up at the start of GG and then purposely buried in the harassment narrative.

    I'm sure Beamdog meant well with this line, but it has backfired on them from both sides.

    Feel free to watch this video by Liana Kerzner, who explains the reaction in further detail.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTkQxgtuOLU
    It's an easter egg. It's supposed to be absurd, just like when a certain other character complains about you clicking on him. As other posters have pointed out, Minsc could have said "Let's make the realms great again!" and it would have been FINE. He could have made a number of modern references poking fun at any number of groups, but the issue here is that the gamergate outrage machine cannot tolerate any content that doesn't cater to their fragile worldview. For a group that claims SJWs are constantly whining, these are the most delicate, easily offended people I've ever seen in my life.

    It's a joke. Chuckle and move on.
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,847
    edited April 2016
    whoops Im an idiot, nothing new I suppose
  • AzzaraAzzara Member Posts: 184
    I'm slightly annoyed that GG got immortalized in BG as a cultural phenomenon by making a joke about them.
    That said, don't change anything. :)
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  • AutocratAutocrat Member Posts: 68
    Thank you for the well-thought out post, Tilly. It's good to see cool heads amidst all this drama.

    On a related note, can we please get rid of Purudaya and Shawne? They have been incredibly annoying about this whole issue, and I frankly never want to read another one of their hateful posts again.
  • rjmacreadyrjmacready Member Posts: 91
    edited April 2016
    I think Mizhena should be fully replaced by a new character. I think it should be a male priest of cyric called Insecuritus who once saw a trans person in his village and decided to burn it to the ground because seeing that one trans person convinced him that there was a vast conspiracy taking place where a nefarious group were trying to brainwash the masses with their political agenda.

    Maybe there should also be a priestess of umberlee with a persecution complex who complains endlessly that the world is so tough on her. The two could bicker back and forth endlessly until Noober comes along and murders both of them for being so idiotic and annoying and making everyone else miserable.
  • Greenman019Greenman019 Member Posts: 206

    Flashburn said:

    Beamdog has removed the amount of time played on Steam for reviews. They're in full "shut it down" mode, which isn't going to make things any better.

    http://store.steampowered.com/app/385970/

    What does this mean? I don't use Steam. :/
    When you post reviews on Steam, usually it also shows the amount of time that reviewer has been in/played the game.

    It looks like that feature has been removed from the review section of SoD.
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,847

    Flashburn said:

    Beamdog has removed the amount of time played on Steam for reviews. They're in full "shut it down" mode, which isn't going to make things any better.

    http://store.steampowered.com/app/385970/

    What does this mean? I don't use Steam. :/
    nothing, because steam doesnt keep track of time played for DLC, could've sworn it did though
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